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flybynight
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North American Carriers In Africa

Thu Dec 02, 2004 3:29 pm

To my knowledge (and I know someone will correct me if I am wrong), there are no Canadian, US or Mexican airlines flying into the contintent of Africa (don't use code sharing as an answer!).
Have any North American airlines EVER flown to cities in Africa? I would think maybe Cairo or Cape Town would be possible spots or were at one time.
I realize it makes more sense to rely on partner airlines in today's market, but what about, say, 30 years ago?
Heia Norge!
 
jpetekyxmd80
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RE: North American Carriers In Africa

Thu Dec 02, 2004 3:37 pm

I'm pretty sure TWA flew to Cairo.
The Best Care in the Air, 1984-2009
 
Trvlr
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RE: North American Carriers In Africa

Thu Dec 02, 2004 3:43 pm

Pan Am definitely used to fly to Cairo, Monrovia, Nairobi, and (I think) Dar Es Salaam. The routing for subsaharan flights was JFK-Monrovia, and from Monrovia to points elsewhere on the continent.

Delta also used to fly to Cairo.

Aaron G.
 
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LAXintl
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RE: North American Carriers In Africa

Thu Dec 02, 2004 4:42 pm

Currently World Airways operates to Luanda Angola from Houston a couple times a week. The flights which operate under the Sonair banner have been flying for several years carrying oil industry types back and forth. The aircraft is equipped in a 2 class configuration, not the typical World Airways cattle car MD-11 set up. World also tried operating its own scheduled service flights to Johannesburg back in the mid-90s however the experiment was dropped quickly.

Indeed TWA also operated to Africa. Actually Cairo was one of its first destinations to be served via Paris shortly after WWII. Cairo managed to stay on TWAs route map until the very end having been operated with B767-300s nonstop from the JFK with continuation service to Riyadh Saudi Arabia. If I'm not mistaken the carrier also might have operated to Morocco for a brief period.

Pan Am used to serve Africa quite a bit. In the 80s Monrovia, Johannesburg, Lagos and Nairobi were served. Jo-burg was dropped as part of US sanctions against South Africa. Nairobi was served pretty close to the end of the carrier finally with A310s via Frankfurt. Pan Am in addition served a few other African destinations back in the 60/70s with B707s.

In addition there was short lived upstart airline US Africa Airways with 2 leased American MD-11s based at Washington Dulles.

Lastly, I believe Continental Airlines is due to start EWR-Lagos service in 2005. They had applied with the DOT a few months back for the route.


[Edited 2004-12-02 09:02:01]
From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
 
aa777jr
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RE: North American Carriers In Africa

Thu Dec 02, 2004 5:34 pm

What would DL have to operate to fly to JNB or CPT from ATL? Are they flying any a/c with that range?

AA777jr
A liberal is a man who is right most of the time, but he's right too soon.
 
AMS
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RE: North American Carriers In Africa

Thu Dec 02, 2004 6:57 pm

Lastly, I believe Continental Airlines is due to start EWR-Lagos service in 2005. They had applied with the DOT a few months back for the route

Once Co starts to fly to LOS, then this will put a pressure on European carriers as AF,BA,KL,LH because on these flights are normally a very large amount of Transfer Passengers going to North America.

Regards,
AMS
 
roblondon70
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RE: North American Carriers In Africa

Thu Dec 02, 2004 8:28 pm

Pan Am also served ABJ, ACC, DKR and LOS at one time. No?
 
hardiwv
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RE: North American Carriers In Africa

Thu Dec 02, 2004 8:42 pm

What would DL have to operate to fly to JNB or CPT from ATL?

Indeed, I thought DL operated to JNB or CPT from ATL with a stop-over in SID (Cape Verde), is this correct?

 
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CaptSkibi
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RE: North American Carriers In Africa

Thu Dec 02, 2004 8:48 pm

South African Airways operates JNB/CPT-ATL or vice versa. The stopover in Cape Verde is a fuel stop on the way up to ATL. I'm not sure on the way down to South Africa, however.

DL code shares with SAA on this route (but not Sky Team).
Private Pilot, Airplane Single Engine Land / former frequent flyer with 9 straight years being elite on NW/DL
 
noelg
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RE: North American Carriers In Africa

Thu Dec 02, 2004 8:50 pm

Hardiwv - I thought that was SAA doing that routing? Are you sure it was DL?

Cheers,
Noel.
 
noelg
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RE: North American Carriers In Africa

Thu Dec 02, 2004 8:52 pm

Damnit CaptSkibi - you beat me to it!!

 Smile/happy/getting dizzy

Cheers,
Noel.
 
PRGLY
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RE: North American Carriers In Africa

Thu Dec 02, 2004 8:53 pm

If I m not mistaken DL never flew to JNB,CPT by themselves, it is DL code on SA210 and SA212 flights operated by 346 nowadays. Routing is ATL-SID-JNB-CPT and ATL-SID-CPT-JNB
just fly - it is nice
 
A350
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RE: North American Carriers In Africa

Thu Dec 02, 2004 9:30 pm

If I m not mistaken DL never flew to JNB,CPT by themselves, it is DL code on SA210 and SA212 flights operated by 346 nowadays. Routing is ATL-SID-JNB-CPT and ATL-SID-CPT-JNB


Does anybody know if they have the 56000 or the 60000 lbs Trents on the wing?

According to the Airbus website, the first results in 7500 nm range, the latter in 7900 nm range.

At the Great Circle mapper http://gc.kls2.com/, CPT-ATL is calculated to 7064 nm, JNB-ATL to 7334 nm.

So, why the refueling stop?

A350
 
behramjee
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RE: North American Carriers In Africa

Thu Dec 02, 2004 9:39 pm

No North American airline flies to Africa currently but the following African airlines fly to North America :

1. Egypt Air...JFK + YUL
2. Ethiopian...BWI
3. Royal Air Maroc...JFK
4. South African...JFK + ATL

Rumored to start in the future :

1. Kenya Airways to MIA nonstop from NBO (has been in the works for a 1 year now) with B 772ERs.
 
latinaviation
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RE: North American Carriers In Africa

Thu Dec 02, 2004 9:48 pm

Indeed, back in the mid 1990s World had a small int'l hub at EWR and codeshared with Continental. This didn't last long, but the carrier flew to West Africa (Dakar, Senegal, I believe) and used dormant frequencies to CPT/JNB.

There was a start-up, US Africa Airways, that was in business for 9 months flying IAD-CPT/JNB via Sal Island.
 
JoFMO
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RE: North American Carriers In Africa

Thu Dec 02, 2004 10:50 pm

I will bet Virgin Nigeria has some old route authorities from NigerianEagleAirlines to North America which they will use.
 
acvitale
Posts: 1911
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RE: North American Carriers In Africa

Thu Dec 02, 2004 11:09 pm

ET flies to IAD not BWI

Virgin Nigerian will likely fly to NYC (airport undetermined)

Ghana International will fly to NYC and WAS (airport undetermined)
 
Clipper002
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RE: North American Carriers In Africa

Thu Dec 02, 2004 11:25 pm

Pan Am actually built most of the airports throughout Africa. We operated from JFK to RBA, ROB, DKR, CKY, ABJ, ACC, LOS, NBO, DAR, JNB and DLA.
ROB was the major crew changing point and the crews were on a 13 day pattern when they left the states.

WO also operated ATL/LOS for several months last year before having to cancel service do to lack of payment by the tour operator. WO has also operated JFK/ACC as a sub-service for Ghana Air on several occasions and of course has many charters that were all over the African continent.

Ed
Ed
 
jsnww81
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RE: North American Carriers In Africa

Fri Dec 03, 2004 12:51 am

At one point Pan Am had service to several airports in Africa, continuing well into the 1980s. Gradually the African flights were cut back, and by the end in 1991 there was no Africa service.

TWA received authority from Athens/Cairo to a number of eastern African destinations in the late 1960s (Nairobi, Addis Ababa, Entebbe/Kampala, etc.) but these were traded to Pan Am in the great early 1970s route swap that saw Pan Am pull almost completely out of Paris (a TWA stronghold) and TWA back out of Germany.
 
PanAm747
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RE: North American Carriers In Africa

Fri Dec 03, 2004 1:00 am

This seems like the appropriate place to point this out:

http://www.airchives.com

There are old route maps available of excellent quality (most are extremely clear). Check out the old TWA and Pan Am route maps - some wildly exotic routes were flown, such as Cairo - Basra (Iraq). Airline Nirvana!!

In reference to your question, you will see both Pan Am and TWA both served Africa at different points.

And speaking of Africa, what is the status of Continental's IAH-EWR-LOS service? Still in the works? On hold? Anyone know?
Pan Am:The World's Most Experienced Airline - P(oor) S(ailor's) A(irline): San Diego's Hometown Airline-Catch Our Smile!
 
Clipper002
Posts: 659
Joined: Wed Aug 11, 2004 4:24 am

RE: North American Carriers In Africa

Fri Dec 03, 2004 1:07 am

PanAM747,
Couldn't get the site to open. Any suggestions?

Ed
Ed
 
PanAm747
Posts: 4713
Joined: Mon Mar 01, 2004 4:46 am

RE: North American Carriers In Africa

Fri Dec 03, 2004 1:08 am

Wow!! It was working fine yesterday!! Don't know what happened....

Once it goes back up, you'll see it's a great site!!

Sorry!!  Sad
Pan Am:The World's Most Experienced Airline - P(oor) S(ailor's) A(irline): San Diego's Hometown Airline-Catch Our Smile!
 
PanAm747
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RE: North American Carriers In Africa

Fri Dec 03, 2004 1:14 am

Sorry!! My fault!!

http://www.airchive.com

No "s"...

AAAAGGGHHH!!!! Try that...
Pan Am:The World's Most Experienced Airline - P(oor) S(ailor's) A(irline): San Diego's Hometown Airline-Catch Our Smile!
 
Clipper002
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RE: North American Carriers In Africa

Fri Dec 03, 2004 1:21 am

Got it. Thanks a lot. This looks fantastic.

Ed
Ed
 
roblondon70
Posts: 88
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RE: North American Carriers In Africa

Fri Dec 03, 2004 1:44 am

Great maps....Any similar source with actual timetables??
 
scf158
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RE: North American Carriers In Africa

Fri Dec 03, 2004 1:50 am

Behramjee,

doesn't Royal Air Maroc also serve YUL seasonly?
 
kkfla737
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Joined: Sat Oct 09, 2004 2:28 am

RE: North American Carriers In Africa

Fri Dec 03, 2004 2:42 am

Pan Am cut services to all African destinations except Nairobi in late 1986- this meant Dkar, Monrovia, and Lagos were cut in addition to Cairo and Johnaesburg that had been cut earlier in the mid 80s. Nairobi continued until the 1991 sale of the Atlantic routes to Delta.
 
andz
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RE: North American Carriers In Africa

Fri Dec 03, 2004 3:33 am

A350 this has been a popular topic in the past, SAA are keen on carrying as much cargo as possible on the routes from the States so they are sacrificing range for take off weight, hence the fuel stops. The stops from JNB are required due to the elevation of the airport restricting take off weight.
After Monday and Tuesday even the calendar says WTF...
 
kkfla737
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RE: North American Carriers In Africa

Fri Dec 03, 2004 3:36 am

Accra and Abbajan were also cut in the 80s by Pan Am. Delta served Cairo briefly in 2001.
 
aa777jr
Posts: 2269
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RE: North American Carriers In Africa

Fri Dec 03, 2004 3:37 am

Would there be a market for DL to fly a 772 out of ATL to CPT or JNB?


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AA777jr

[Edited 2004-12-02 19:44:17]
A liberal is a man who is right most of the time, but he's right too soon.
 
EurostarVA
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RE: North American Carriers In Africa

Wed Dec 08, 2004 4:31 pm

The US DOT's worrying stance against Virgin Nigeria Airways flights to the US is puzzling. Since the new airline will be majority owned by Nigerian investors but may be run by Virgin Atlantic Airways. For this reason, the DOT may block the airline from flying to the US. This is unfair and consequently I don't think Nigeria will grant Continental Airlines final permission to fly to Lagos.
If there is a will, there is a way
 
AA B777-200
Posts: 404
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RE: North American Carriers In Africa

Wed Dec 08, 2004 4:54 pm

Behramjee,

Since Kenya Airways is a KLM partner, I was once told by their rep that they'd rather open NBO-DTW than any other US City. You would think JFK or Chicago, right?
But KQ has dropped these plans and are now focussing on their high density routes with the new 777.

I was going through my old stuff anf found an old Pan Am route map, effective Sept.8, 1982 and they show JFK-Dakar-Monrovia, JFK-Monrovia-Accra, JFK-Monrovia-Lagos-Nairobo as well as JFK-Abidjan-Johannesburg. There was also an all cargo JFK-Dakar-Johannesburg.

A different map (no date!) shows only one link JFK-Dakar-Monrovia-Lagos-Nairobi (that must have taken ages!).
The last one (1990??) shows just Frankfurt-Nairobo. Too bad!

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