hardiwv
Posts: 4341
Joined: Sat Oct 09, 2004 11:30 pm

Brazil's LCC GOL Airlines Orders 43 737NG

Fri Dec 03, 2004 12:58 am

Boeing and Brazil's GOL Linhas Aereaes S.A., one of the world's most profitable airlines, announced that the airline has ordered 43 737-800 passenger airplanes worth up to US $2.7 billion at list prices. GOL begins receiving the firm-ordered 737-800s between 2007 and 2009.

GOL was launched in January 2001 as the first low-fare airline in Brazil, and is the fastest growing airline in South America. GOL is also the largest operator of the Next Generation Boeing 737 in Latin America, with a fleet of 29 737NGs, serving 37 destinations.

http://www.voegol.com.br/index_ie.asp

Rgs,
 
greaser
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RE: Brazil's LCC GOL Airlines Orders 43 737NG

Fri Dec 03, 2004 1:02 am

wow, 43. Very good news for GOL's expansion, i can't wait to fly it, it will be my first South American Airline. Anyway, i heard the order was for 45 so this is close enough  Big grin
Now you're really flying
 
Southamerica
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RE: Brazil's LCC GOL Airlines Orders 43 737NG

Fri Dec 03, 2004 1:06 am

Curious and interesting that the whole order was for 737-800 and not for the -700 version.

Good news for GOL, and for the entire region at that, now that they are considering in expanding outside of Brazil. GOL was indeed the first low-cost airline in South America and continues to hold this title.


Thanks.



SOUTHAMERICA
 
N79969
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RE: Brazil's LCC GOL Airlines Orders 43 737NG

Fri Dec 03, 2004 1:08 am

Is this one of those previously unannounced customers already recorded or is it a brand new addition to the backlog? Hopefully the latter but glad nonetheless.
 
hardiwv
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RE: Brazil's LCC GOL Airlines Orders 43 737NG

Fri Dec 03, 2004 1:17 am

Interesting enough this announcement came back-to-back with Boeing's announcement in Sao Paulo that it is considering opening a production facility in Brazil....Boeing's first office in LatAm will open in Sao Paulo in 2005.

There is a thread discussing this topic:

http://www.airliners.net/discussions/general_aviation/read.main/1843585/


"Planemaker Boeing Co. is considering opening a production facility in Brazil, local newspaper Estado De S. Paulo reported on Wednesday.

Boeing wants to strengthen its presence in Latin America's largest country to shore up relations with existing clients and prevent its leading market position there from being chiseled away by rival Airbus, Estado reported.

"Boeing wants to be the preferred supplier to Brazilian airlines. We're looking at new ways to improve our relationships in Brazil. Among these is producing here," Thomas Pickering, Boeing's vice president of international affairs, told Estado in Sao Paulo.

"We want to maintain and augment our position in Latin America," he said.

Estado did not say how much money Boeing might invest in Brazil."
 
PPVRA
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RE: Brazil's LCC GOL Airlines Orders 43 737NG

Fri Dec 03, 2004 1:20 am

"If goods do not cross borders, soldiers will" - Frederic Bastiat
 
Regis
Posts: 281
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RE: Brazil's LCC GOL Airlines Orders 43 737NG

Fri Dec 03, 2004 1:22 am

wow, 43. Very good news for GOL's expansion, i can't wait to fly it, it will be my first South American Airline.

Don't set your hopes too high or you are in for a big disapointment. GOL is a greyhound bus with wings. LCC brazilian style is even more trailer-trash than Southwest.


[Edited 2004-12-02 17:27:51]
 
hardiwv
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RE: Brazil's LCC GOL Airlines Orders 43 737NG

Fri Dec 03, 2004 3:04 am

PPVRA:

Indeed, your're right. But apparently Boeing re-announced GOL's order because of the visit of Boeing CEO to Brazil this week...

Regis:

Completely disagree. GOL is far better than Ryanair or EasyJet or its US counterpars. GOL's fleet is young, you get FREE meals on board, you have electronic check-in and electronic change of flights, and all flights have screens showing the route of the flight, and GOL's on-time performance is about 90%....

Also, with promotional tickets charging R$1 or 0.40 US cents for flights, you wouldn't expect more, right? GOL is a LCC and not a nornal flag carriers. You pay for what you get, and with GOL is get far more than what you pay for! Lots of people in Brazil that have never boarded an airplane before are doing so with GOL...

One-way tickets EZE-GRU are on sale for USD 50 in Buenos Aires, which is an excellent deal!


Rgs,

 
godbless
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RE: Brazil's LCC GOL Airlines Orders 43 737NG

Fri Dec 03, 2004 3:23 am

LCC brazilian style is even more trailer-trash than Southwest.
And how would the "LCC brazilian style" compare to Ryanair?
Considering that FR is the "LCC hardcore-extreme-style".

Max
 
erikwilliam
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RE: Brazil's LCC GOL Airlines Orders 43 737NG

Fri Dec 03, 2004 4:55 am

The order is 28+15, and this is for them to replace the leased aircrafts with their own.
GOL opened stock in Bovespa and BYSE and was very sucessful at it, I saw a interview with mr.Constatino(GOL CEO) and as for the sucess of the stock they´ll be able to plan the buy of a.c and not lease.
GOL today has 22 737-NG and has 3or5 737-300 to comlpete the fleet (sorry, don´t remember exactly).
GOL is doing fine and is anoying competition in Brazil.
Soon to start flights to EZE and plans to open new dest. in south-america.

C´ya
Dida, Cafu, Lucio, Roque Junior, Roberto Carlo, Emerson, Ze Roberto, Ronaldinho, Kaka, Adriano, Robinho, Ronaldo
 
hardiwv
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RE: Brazil's LCC GOL Airlines Orders 43 737NG

Fri Dec 03, 2004 6:20 pm

how would the "LCC brazilian style" compare to Ryanair?

As I said in my reply 7, GOL has a far superior product if compared to any European LCC.

Rgs,
Hardi

 
N1120A
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RE: Brazil's LCC GOL Airlines Orders 43 737NG

Fri Dec 03, 2004 6:33 pm

>Completely disagree. GOL is far better than Ryanair or EasyJet or its US counterpars. GOL's fleet is young, you get FREE meals on board, you have electronic check-in and electronic change of flights, and all flights have screens showing the route of the flight, and GOL's on-time performance is about 90%....<

If you get actual, full meals, I would be surprised, though snacks and things like sandwich wraps are done by LCCs in the US. F9 for a long time (I think they still do) serve wraps on their longer flights. B6 offers a range of snacks, including boutique snacks like Terra Chips that are better than any crappy pretzel mix on a "legacy carrier". They also have real TV inflight (you can watch Airshow in flight).
Mangeons les French fries, mais surtout pratiquons avec fierte le French kiss
 
hardiwv
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RE: Brazil's LCC GOL Airlines Orders 43 737NG

Fri Dec 03, 2004 6:47 pm

If you get actual, full meals, I would be surprised, though snacks and things like sandwich wraps are done by LCCs in the US

You're right. GOL only serves snacks, such as cereal bars, wraps and juices and/or soft drinks. I must say they are not very tasting, and very basic. But in Europe you get nothing, or you have to pay for it.

They also have real TV inflight

As far as I know, this also applies for GOL. You can watch the routing of your flight - something you normally have on international flights only.

Rgs,
Hardi
 
Udo
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RE: Brazil's LCC GOL Airlines Orders 43 737NG

Fri Dec 03, 2004 6:51 pm

Trailer-trash at Southwest? Have you mixed up anything? And nothing would ever be worse than O'Leary's craplines...


Regards
Udo
Me & You & a Plane Named Blue...
 
N1120A
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RE: Brazil's LCC GOL Airlines Orders 43 737NG

Fri Dec 03, 2004 7:05 pm

>You're right. GOL only serves snacks, such as cereal bars, wraps and juices and/or soft drinks. I must say they are not very tasting, and very basic. But in Europe you get nothing, or you have to pay for it.<

GOL actually is much more like a US LCC than anywhere else.

>They also have real TV inflight

As far as I know, this also applies for GOL. You can watch the routing of your flight - something you normally have on international flights only.<

No, what I mean is that B6 (and F9, though you have to pay with them) lets you watch real satalite tv in flight, for free.

>Trailer-trash at Southwest? Have you mixed up anything? And nothing would ever be worse than O'Leary's craplines...<

What are you talking about with trailer-trash? I hope you are not calling all the business people on WN flights and the people who work there that.

FR is not that bad, they tell you what they are and make no appologies.
Mangeons les French fries, mais surtout pratiquons avec fierte le French kiss
 
Udo
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RE: Brazil's LCC GOL Airlines Orders 43 737NG

Fri Dec 03, 2004 7:18 pm

Actually I defended WN and referred to a post by Regis. But some individuals seem to be in mad mood?  Wink/being sarcastic

And FR is by far the worst LCC, no matter what they tell me or not.


Regards
Udo
Me & You & a Plane Named Blue...
 
Regis
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RE: Brazil's LCC GOL Airlines Orders 43 737NG

Fri Dec 03, 2004 7:40 pm

GOL is a bus with wings and I stand by what I said. But I concede that it offer a better product than FR and U2. Especially FR. The point of my post was to have fellow a.net user Greaser lower his expectations and not to trash GOL.

GOL is far better than Ryanair or EasyJet or its US counterpars.

True with regards to FR and U2, not so regarding B6 or WN.

GOL's fleet is young

Not acquainted with FR's fleet, but U2 only flies brand new A319s out of GVA.

you get FREE meals on board

To call a cereal bar a meal is a bit of an overstatement.

you have electronic check-in and electronic change of flights

So do U2, FR, B6, WN... No big deal anymore.

and all flights have screens showing the route of the flight

I am sure that is a major consideration when choosing GOL. Adds so much to in-flight confort.

and GOL's on-time performance is about 90%....

U2's is 86% (arriving within 15 min of scheduled time).

 
hardiwv
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RE: Brazil's LCC GOL Airlines Orders 43 737NG

Fri Dec 03, 2004 7:52 pm

Anyone calling GOL a "trailer-trash" airline is completely unaware of the airline's achievements...have a look at this link, and the facts speak for themselves:

http://www.mz-ir.com/gol/eng




 
Regis
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RE: Brazil's LCC GOL Airlines Orders 43 737NG

Fri Dec 03, 2004 8:05 pm

GOL can have low operating margins, growing market share, float its shares in the NY Stock Exchange and still be trailer trash (service-wise). GOL's founder and management were in the bus business before launching their venture into civil aviation and have only succeeded by convincing their white trash bus customers to take an airplane instead of hitting the road aboard their filthy buses. The allure is that they would get the same level of comfort aboard a 737 than in their double-wides.
 
hardiwv
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RE: Brazil's LCC GOL Airlines Orders 43 737NG

Fri Dec 03, 2004 8:26 pm

GOL's founder and management were in the bus business before launching their venture into civil aviation

And so what? Virgin CEO was in the CD business before establishing the airline...

and have only succeeded by convincing their white trash bus customers to take an airplane instead of hitting the road aboard their filthy buses.

Completely wrong. The bus company was very limited, I think operating in Sao Paulo state only. GOL has flights all over Brazil!

The allure is that they would get the same level of comfort aboard a 737 than in their double-wides.

What a joke! I cannot take this statment serious...


YOu have to compare GOL with airline in Brazil and South America, and I can only compare GOL with airlines such as TAM and LAN, which actually dont even offer some of the services of GOL such as electronic ticket and electronic change of tickets.

--------------

Juts read the last travel reports posted at "Air Quality" about GOL:

"GOL - by Johan Olsson

17 September 2004

GOL is an excellent low-cost quality airline in Brazil. Flew GOL from FOR to REC to SAL to FOR. New planes (B737-800), excellent quick check in, on time departures, and excellent snacks/drinks. All at 50% of the VARIG cost, and with better quality!"


 
EMB195ER
Posts: 253
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RE: Brazil's LCC GOL Airlines Orders 43 737NG

Fri Dec 03, 2004 8:27 pm

Hello Guys,

I didn't know GOL has screens in their airplanes. I've flown then a couple of time (B737-300 and B737-700) and never saw it. Are you guys sure about that?

Hardi, I am impressed with that informantion about GOL selling tickets in BA for 50,00 USD. Do you know that price in Brazil? I just checked the price in Brazil and I am a bit disappointed with what I saw. The GRU-EZE price is 167,00 USD each way. Three times more!!!!  Angry

Hugs,

EMB195ER
 
hardiwv
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RE: Brazil's LCC GOL Airlines Orders 43 737NG

Fri Dec 03, 2004 8:31 pm

EMB195ER,

Yes, since GOL is already well-known and well-established in Brazil, tickets are on sale with promotional fares if bought in Argentina...natural commercial rules, nothing more! Many other ailrine have the same practice. GOL does have screen on the majority of their fleet...you were unlucky.

This link is very interesting:

http://www.mz-ir.com/gol/eng/

Rgs,
Hardi
 
PPVRA
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RE: Brazil's LCC GOL Airlines Orders 43 737NG

Sat Dec 04, 2004 10:56 am

Regis,

Heck! I would stand in a "green" C-130 all the way to EZE if I could get even cheaper flights then GOL offers... the whole point of the business is to be cheap...

PPVRA
"If goods do not cross borders, soldiers will" - Frederic Bastiat
 
Derico
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RE: Brazil's LCC GOL Airlines Orders 43 737NG

Sun Dec 05, 2004 1:33 am

Now that summertime is comming to Argentina, and as we know the country shuts down in January (even the lowliest piquetero will go on their vacation), woudn't it make much more sense for GOL to take a risk and offer discounted fares in brand new, seasonal routes like EZE-FLN, EZE-SSA, EZE-GIG, COR-FLN, ROS-FLN, MDZ-FLN??

There will be almost 500 charters to Brazil from Argentina this summer season... surely GOL could tap into that, and along with bringing in some lower income consumers with their fares, I see them doing well from here foward as both economies grow. Some Argentines still can't afford returning to Brazil like they did prior the devaluation, so wouldn't such cheap airfares give a huge boost in encouraging more to go there?

Besides the airfare cost, food prices and other things are still cheaper in Brazil compared to the Argentine Atlantic coast, at least that's what they are saying. And the weather is more reliable than in our more stormy, southern latitudes...

Argentine tourism to Brazil for the summer will be up 20% (I know how we behave overseas so I do feel your pain), but they do bring $$. 1/3 foreign tourists to Brazil are Argentine, and in the south of Brazil, it's over 70% of visitors. So, obviously, Argentine tourism for Brazil is crucial and extremely important. GOL could have a huge potential market there.

EZE-GRU is OK to promote, but GRU simply put isn't a tourist destination, specially for Argentines who come from EZE. They want sand, not concrete.
My internet was not shut down, the internet has shut me down
 
Regis
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RE: Brazil's LCC GOL Airlines Orders 43 737NG

Sun Dec 05, 2004 3:45 am

Derico, you may be overestimating the interest of your countrymen in Brazil. I checked the website of Brazil's Ministry of Tourism for statistics and got different numbers than yours. For instance in 2002 (latest numbers available) 677,604 Argentineans visited Brazil, out of an aggregate of 3,674,129 tourists. That makes it 18,5% of Argentineans, and not 1/3 as you thought. Your numbers for the percentage of Argentinean tourists in the south of Brazil seem also to be a bit off. Quoting from the same website, the number of Argentineans visiting the state of Rio Grande do Sul counted for 44% of the total tourists. Another interesting statistic is that more than 75% of Argentineans visiting Brazil enter the country by land. Given that the majority of Argentineans still prefer to drive to Brazil instead of flying, GOL's potential for this market seem less than stellar.

 
hardiwv
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RE: Brazil's LCC GOL Airlines Orders 43 737NG

Sun Dec 05, 2004 3:52 am

EZE-GRU is OK to promote, but GRU simply put isn't a tourist destination, specially for Argentines who come from EZE. They want sand, not concrete

Derico, you have a point. However, GOL is much more interested in the long-term operations than the seasonal "holiday" flights. GRU is the most important market and before any other route, GOL needs to establish a solid performance in the high yield EZE-GRU flights. Actually, GOL's flight are operating in the following routes: EZE-GRU-SSA; and EZE-GRU-MAO.

Another point is that GOL provides onward connection in GRU to a number of destinations such as MAO, SSA, REC, FLN, NVT. Also, GOL closed a major deal with an important Argentine holiday agency which will use GOL (as charter) for the transportation of pax to various destinations in Brazil, including FLN and NAT.

Argentine tourism to Brazil for the summer will be up 20% (I know how we behave overseas so I do feel your pain), but they do bring $$. 1/3 foreign tourists to Brazil are Argentine, and in the south of Brazil, it's over 70% of visitors.

You're completely correct. I myself have relatives living in the FLN area and they tell me that tourism is very dependent on Argentina. Whereas NE Brazil managed to be included in the European and US tourist network, South Brazil still relies a lot on the "brothers" from the South (i.e. mainly Argentina, but also Paraguay and Uruguay).

Just some flights updates between Argentina and South Brazil:

AR: EZE-FLN daily; EZE-POA daily;
JJ: EZE-POA daily; EZE-CWA daily;
RG: EZE-FLN 8 x week (MD11 and 733); EZE-NVT 2 x week.

(any correction?)

And as you said, we can expect well over 500 charter flights in the summer!

Interesting to note that this summer season will see for the first time scheduled services between EZE and NVT. NVT is a strategic airport, well placed for tourists wanting to travel to Balneario Camboriu and the beaches to the North of the state of Santa Catarina.

Rgs,
Hardi
 
Regis
Posts: 281
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RE: Brazil's LCC GOL Airlines Orders 43 737NG

Sun Dec 05, 2004 5:00 am

PPVRA,

I just read your post. I agree. The whole point is being cheap, to the point of making air travel affordable to the masses. GOL does that by offering not only cheap fares but a cheap product and a cheap flying experience.
 
hardiwv
Posts: 4341
Joined: Sat Oct 09, 2004 11:30 pm

RE: Brazil's LCC GOL Airlines Orders 43 737NG

Sun Dec 05, 2004 6:38 am

Indeed, Argentina makes about 20% of the total turists visiting Brazil. Total tourists from Argentina in 2003 amounted to about 800,000 - which corresponds to 1994 levels, and far below the 1,600,000 record number of 1999. 2004 numbers will get close to 1 million, a sharp increase!

In 2003 the top destinations of Argentine tourist is Brazil were: Rio de Janeiro (24,4%), Búzios (16,9%), Florianópolis (12,8%), São Paulo (12,5%) and Salvador (7%).

------------

The 2004/5 summer will see a major increase in charter flights to Brazil (especially NE Brazil). Flights such as MXP-NAT, ZRH-FOR, LIM-FLN, HEL-REC, AMS-OPO, LGW-SSA are examples. From January to September/04 the number of charter flights to Brazil increased 112%.

 
Derico
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RE: Brazil's LCC GOL Airlines Orders 43 737NG

Sun Dec 05, 2004 12:30 pm

Regis,

I don't doubt the 2002 numbers, but as you know 2002 was the year the Argentine economy crashed, so the yearly numbers for that year in particular are incredibly low since no one went overseas that year, really an aberration of historical figures. Just as the 1999-2000 figures were unusually high, since at that time the real was trading at over 2 reals for 1 peso and even dirt poor argentines were shopping around in Santa Catalina.

As you can see 2003 was better already, and expect 2004 to be much better, and 2005 to be better still, and this also comes from personal knowledge as many people I know are heading to Brazil, and some to Chile. The percentages right now are probably in between those 2002 figures you gave and the historical peak.
My internet was not shut down, the internet has shut me down
 
ua777222
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RE: Brazil's LCC GOL Airlines Orders 43 737NG

Sun Dec 05, 2004 1:14 pm

Didn't' the economy in Argentina just start getting better in 00'? Would Boeing open this production plant b/c of the closure of the 757? If so what would be made here? Just parts? Glad to see the NG production get a good kick in the @$$. That's got to bring comfort to Boeing esp. after losing the Air Berlin order.

Thanks again.

UA777222
"It wasn't raining when Noah built the ark."
 
PPVRA
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RE: Brazil's LCC GOL Airlines Orders 43 737NG

Sun Dec 05, 2004 1:59 pm

UA777222,

Actualy, they are probably not going to open an assembly line in Brasil, they are opening a regional office by the end of 05 and maybe a research and development centre.

Here is a link:

http://uk.biz.yahoo.com/041201/323/f7owk.html

PPVRA
"If goods do not cross borders, soldiers will" - Frederic Bastiat
 
hardiwv
Posts: 4341
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RE: Brazil's LCC GOL Airlines Orders 43 737NG

Tue Dec 07, 2004 11:44 pm

PPVRA:

But I read other reports stating that Boeing's office in Brazil could preclude the opening of a manufacturing plant. As I said before, it makes all the sense, since over the last years many factories of aviation components are being established in Brazil around Embraer's plant (e.g. Kawasaky of Japan in building its own manufacturing plant in Brazil to supply Embraer with a/c aluminium and titanium wings).

Rgs,
Hardi
 
PPVRA
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Joined: Fri Nov 12, 2004 7:48 am

RE: Brazil's LCC GOL Airlines Orders 43 737NG

Wed Dec 08, 2004 1:22 am

Hardi,

I would love to see Boeings made in Brasil, and I think they might manufacture parts here but an entire aircraft is unlikely at least for now... unless if they built a new model, maybe something after the 7E7, a 737 replacement? Who knows... It does make sense though.

PPVRA
"If goods do not cross borders, soldiers will" - Frederic Bastiat
 
hardiwv
Posts: 4341
Joined: Sat Oct 09, 2004 11:30 pm

RE: Brazil's LCC GOL Airlines Orders 43 737NG

Wed Dec 08, 2004 5:33 am

they might manufacture parts here but an entire aircraft is unlikelyIt does make sense though.

For me it also makes sense, and I am sure Boeing has other plans for Brazil which are more than establishing an office in the country....of course, I also see this process as manufacturing some parts of a/c, the same way Airbus does in Europe, with many assembly plants in the region.

Rgs,


 
HlywdCatft
Posts: 5232
Joined: Mon Jan 29, 2001 6:21 am

RE: Brazil's LCC GOL Airlines Orders 43 737NG

Wed Dec 08, 2004 1:34 pm

Hmmm...

Well if Boeing wants to set up in Brazil, it would be nice to hear a 7E7 order from Varig.
 
PPVRA
Posts: 7878
Joined: Fri Nov 12, 2004 7:48 am

RE: Brazil's LCC GOL Airlines Orders 43 737NG

Wed Dec 08, 2004 1:45 pm

Well if Boeing wants to set up in Brazil, it would be nice to hear a 7E7 order from Varig.

Already have my fingers crossed!

Unfortunatly, I don't see it anytime soon. RG needs to worry about their debt first. But if they come out of this situation well, I would definatly expect an order.

I think they could fit all three types (-3, -8 and -9) in their fleet perfectly.

PPVRA
"If goods do not cross borders, soldiers will" - Frederic Bastiat
 
hardiwv
Posts: 4341
Joined: Sat Oct 09, 2004 11:30 pm

RE: Brazil's LCC GOL Airlines Orders 43 737NG

Thu Dec 09, 2004 4:01 am

HlywdCatft:
PPVRA:

Also agree with PPVRA, for RG to make more subtantive orders, such as the 7E7, it needs for to put its finances in order...

However, I don't see any clear relationship of a/c orders with location of the manufacturig plant:

Let's see the case of Embraer, for example. Although Embraer is based in Brazil, currently there is no airline in Brazil operating Embraer jets. RG's regional carrier Rio Sul was the only to operate Embraer's airplanes until some weeks ago (I think Rio Sul had up to 15 ERJ 145 and replaced them with the 737) . If I'm not mistaken, some of the Embraer jets operated by Rio Sul are now in Ecuador.

I find this fact really puzzling, as a big country such as Brazil should be operating a considerable amount of Embraer jets! Big commercial airlines such as TAM, RG and GOL prefer to use the bigger 737 for domestic flights, and small regional airlines such as Oceanair prefer the turbo prop EMB Brasilia, F50, etc.

However, it is important to point out that TAM and TAM Mercosur still operate a substantial number of F100s - at some point in time TAM had the biggest F100 fleet in the world (54 F100s). TAM is gradually replacing the F100 by the A318, which won the competition against the Brazilian produced ERJ190-120!
This shows that airlines disregard the home-country of the manufacturing plant; economic and technical fundamentals are the most important aspects.

Rgs,
Hardi
 
PPVRA
Posts: 7878
Joined: Fri Nov 12, 2004 7:48 am

RE: Brazil's LCC GOL Airlines Orders 43 737NG

Thu Dec 09, 2004 6:27 am

Hardi,

However, I don't see any clear relationship of a/c orders with location of the manufacturig plant:

I think Brazilian airlines might get tax breaks from the govt... maybe even Mercosur airlines...

If I'm not mistaken, some of the Embraer jets operated by Rio Sul are now in Ecuador.

The Brazilian Airforce took some of them.


Look at the bottom pictures on page 2 and the top pictures on page 3 (this is how it should be  Smile ) :

http://www.jetsite.com.br/2004/mostra_galeria.asp?whichpage=2&pagesize=20&tipo=138&palavra=&operador_avc=&acidente=&comerciais=&tipo_avc=&local_avc=&operador_mil=&tipo_mil=&local_mil=&funcao_mil=&ultima=&tarefa=
"If goods do not cross borders, soldiers will" - Frederic Bastiat
 
PPVRA
Posts: 7878
Joined: Fri Nov 12, 2004 7:48 am

RE: Brazil's LCC GOL Airlines Orders 43 737NG

Thu Dec 09, 2004 6:29 am

Whatever happened to my post... at least the link still works.

PPVRA

[Edited 2004-12-08 22:32:20]

PS: TAM is on page 16

[Edited 2004-12-08 22:36:07]
"If goods do not cross borders, soldiers will" - Frederic Bastiat
 
hardiwv
Posts: 4341
Joined: Sat Oct 09, 2004 11:30 pm

RE: Brazil's LCC GOL Airlines Orders 43 737NG

Thu Dec 09, 2004 10:37 pm

The Brazilian Airforce took some of them.

Brazil's air force or Ecuador's Air Force? Is the Brazilian Air Force going to use the ex-Rio Sul ERJs for surveillance of the Amazon?

I could not open your link!

Anyway, do you know which airline is getting all of ex-TAM F100s? I don't think they are flying in Brazil for another airline, right?

Rgs,
Hardi
 
erikwilliam
Posts: 2122
Joined: Fri Mar 12, 2004 12:30 am

RE: Brazil's LCC GOL Airlines Orders 43 737NG

Fri Dec 10, 2004 2:56 am

HArdi:
Rio Sul had 16 ERJ-145´s at once, they went to Equador Air Force (4) and 12 to FAB. If I´m not mistaken....
No, these are not the 145´s to do the SIVAM (amazon surveilance program), these planes are for transport of people etc etc.
The 145 ´s to SIVAM have lot´s and lot´s of modifications.

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Photo © Juliano Damásio



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Photo © Marcelo Fouquet De Biasi
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Photo © Carlos A. Morillo Doria


About the F-100´s, be sure that they wont be flying here.
The late company FLY wanted to take them and make another LCC, but that was just "BS" talk. Some will be returned to the lease company, some I just don´t know.
Dida, Cafu, Lucio, Roque Junior, Roberto Carlo, Emerson, Ze Roberto, Ronaldinho, Kaka, Adriano, Robinho, Ronaldo
 
hardiwv
Posts: 4341
Joined: Sat Oct 09, 2004 11:30 pm

RE: Brazil's LCC GOL Airlines Orders 43 737NG

Fri Dec 10, 2004 5:14 am

Erikwilliam:

Thanks for the information about the 16 145s ex-Rio Sul. I thought they went to the Air Force's SIVAM programme in the Amazon; as you correctly pointed out the SIVAM surveillance a/c are quite special and need a lot of modications.

Still, I find it surprising that currently there is no commercial airline in Brazil operating Embraer jets! It would be great to see them with TAM, I can just imiagine the service!

Rgs,
 
PPVRA
Posts: 7878
Joined: Fri Nov 12, 2004 7:48 am

RE: Brazil's LCC GOL Airlines Orders 43 737NG

Fri Dec 10, 2004 6:04 am

Hardi,

About the link, it's just for fun... but here it goes again:

http://www.jetsite.com.br/2004/mostra_galeria.asp?tipo=138

Look at the bottom pictures on page 2 and the top pictures on page 3, look also at page 16 for JJ.

Hope it works...

PPVRA  Big thumbs up
"If goods do not cross borders, soldiers will" - Frederic Bastiat
 
hardiwv
Posts: 4341
Joined: Sat Oct 09, 2004 11:30 pm

RE: Brazil's LCC GOL Airlines Orders 43 737NG

Fri Dec 10, 2004 6:43 am

PPVRA:

WOW!!!!!!!!!!! They're amazing, it really made my night  Smile

Thanks you a lot!! I'll just dream with those photos!!

Rgs,
Hardi
 
erikwilliam
Posts: 2122
Joined: Fri Mar 12, 2004 12:30 am

RE: Brazil's LCC GOL Airlines Orders 43 737NG

Fri Dec 10, 2004 8:00 pm

Hardi:
and we probably won´t be seeing Embraer jets so soon.
The thing is, for brazilian companies, is cheaper to buy an Arbus ou Boeing than a Embraer.
Embraer is like an assembly line, parts come from all over the world to make a plane, and since they are a exporting company, they have tax benefits that are quite good. If a Brazilian Airline wants to buy a Embraer, it´ll have to for the plane in USD and as a imported product, wich is quite high on price and taxes.
Rio Sul returned it´s E-145 because the leasing was consting them more then a 737 leasing.
Brazilian Government wants the exportation numbers to be as high as possible, so that´s why not much benefits to sell the final product(airplane) in the home market.

Hope I gave U good explanation.

Nice day man.
Dida, Cafu, Lucio, Roque Junior, Roberto Carlo, Emerson, Ze Roberto, Ronaldinho, Kaka, Adriano, Robinho, Ronaldo
 
hardiwv
Posts: 4341
Joined: Sat Oct 09, 2004 11:30 pm

RE: Brazil's LCC GOL Airlines Orders 43 737NG

Sat Dec 11, 2004 3:25 am

Erikwilliam:

You're right. Mainstream airlines in Brazil, such as GOL, TAM, RG, are operating only Airbus and Boeing, especially because they withdrew from small markets. This explains why airlines such as Oceanair, Trip, Rico are increasing their presence in the domestic market. But they usually operate with smaller turbo prop a/c such as ATR, F50, or the still the hugely popular Brasilia.

RG now is using the 737 even to medium-sized destinations (MGF, for example)...so I think that we wont see the Embraer jets so soon...unless the regional airlines grow enough to adopt jets for their operations.

However, your explanation about the US dollar-cost of the Embraer jets does not make sense. Otherwise airlines could lease Bombardier jets...all in all, air transportation is mainly a US dollar-denominated business, from a/c to oil price!

Rgs,
 
erikwilliam
Posts: 2122
Joined: Fri Mar 12, 2004 12:30 am

RE: Brazil's LCC GOL Airlines Orders 43 737NG

Sun Dec 12, 2004 4:48 am

Hardi:

ehehehehe, you got one part all wrong.
The reason why there are no is because for tax purpose Embraer is just an assembly line, that takes parts from other countries and sell the final product abroad Brazil. For that reason, it´s cheaper to buy a Embraer Jet in USA then in Brazil. If a company buys it here, then it´s considered a imported good, and as a imported good it has huge taxes on it, to pretect national industry.
And, as much as the country can export is better for the country finances an etc. That´s one fact.
Other thing that is important to say is, ONLY JJ could buy Embraer Jets right now.
VP is broke, nobody will sell them anything. RG is a soap-opera, and they probably aren´t interested in "small things", they wanna buy 777 and have to parcel the employes salary. GOL has a diferent market strategy, they want the BIG cities, and they gain money with the big pax rotation. That´s why they use bigger planes.

there´s probably a good demand for regional routes here, but as our economy is quite unstable, and the price of money here is too big, nobody want´s to bet. Too bad.

And in a personal note, I think RG could do better in their bankrupcy if the use Embraer Jets. For ex. I once went to SDU on a 737 with only 5pax onboard a 737. I think they could use better their demand with the new E-190´s, but that´s me.

Have a nice weekend man.
Dida, Cafu, Lucio, Roque Junior, Roberto Carlo, Emerson, Ze Roberto, Ronaldinho, Kaka, Adriano, Robinho, Ronaldo