7LBAC111
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The End Of Eujet May Be Nigh.

Mon Dec 06, 2004 8:14 pm

As predicted by many on here, including BestWestern and Pearson (I think) it would seem that EUJet may have difficulty seeing out the winter.

This from ABTN :MANSTON AIRPORT’S future, and for that matter resident airline EUjet, has been called into question following the publication of interim results by owner PlaneStation plc, the former Wiggins. Manston, officially now known as Kent International (and London-Manston) and located 20 east of Canterbury, is a former RAF aerodrome previously mainly used for freight operations. PlaneStation needs to raise £17m from investors. Its shares finished at 17.5p. Five years ago they stood at 600p. The airport operators also owns one third of EUjet which it says it plans to make 100%. The airline currently operates around 14 services a day to a variety of destinations including Amsterdam, Barcelona, Dublin and Edinburgh
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777ER
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RE: The End Of Eujet May Be Nigh.

Mon Dec 06, 2004 8:39 pm


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sevenair
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RE: The End Of Eujet May Be Nigh.

Mon Dec 06, 2004 8:42 pm

not surprised, anyone actually know where manston is?? I think it was very ambitious to start up a new airport, perhaps they could have chosen a more appropriate base. I dont see otherwise why this airline should fail, good fares, OK timings. Although it is true that a majority of business travellers and high powered jobs are based in SE of england, i tihnk they would be more inclined to choose LGW or other major establised airport.
 
MACDADDY
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RE: The End Of Eujet May Be Nigh.

Tue Dec 07, 2004 1:43 am

Me thinks not!

I read in the express there was a 5 mil pound investment this past week. Loads arn't too bad as i understand it and the planes cost next to nothing to run/lease.

Lets notbe too hasty. I won't be cancelling my booking just yet!

MAC
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Pe@rson
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RE: The End Of Eujet May Be Nigh.

Tue Dec 07, 2004 1:50 am

I'm not surprised at all, but let's wait and see. *Awaits the thread concerning WW.*  Wink/being sarcastic
"Everyone writing for the Telegraph knows that the way to grab eyeballs is with Ryanair and/or sex."
 
SQno1
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RE: The End Of Eujet May Be Nigh.

Tue Dec 07, 2004 3:09 am

Thev'e tried to compete with the eurostar at Ashford, not a suprise who has won.

What are their load factors like. How full was a flight that any a.net member been on recently?

SQno1
 
Thomas_Jaeger
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RE: The End Of Eujet May Be Nigh.

Tue Dec 07, 2004 4:49 am

Traffic figures (September/October):

AGP: 0/1301
AMS: 3316/3538
CPH: 508/0
DUB: 3207/3907
FAO: 688/849
GRO: 1602/1468
MAD: 0/1567
MJV: 693/1301
NCE: 1285/1198
PMI: 0/508
PRG: 1444/1482
SNN: 50/302
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Beaucaire
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RE: The End Of Eujet May Be Nigh.

Tue Dec 07, 2004 5:00 am

It is ridicoulous to use Manston Airport as base for a Lowcost airline..
No good transport,right in the middle of nowhere ,no marketing or publicity abroad,no flamboyant CEO like MOL who put's the airline in the media every day...
In Nice everybody knows Easyjet - nobody in the street has ever heard about Eujet !If you want to fill your seats,you need to advertise them !!!!
Eujet are basically a marketing tool for DEBIS finance to find a good use of a bunch of Fokker 100 stored in Shannon.They will join very soon the list of carriers dissapearing ,I'm afraid...
Please respect animals - don't eat them...
 
3w
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RE: The End Of Eujet May Be Nigh.

Tue Dec 07, 2004 5:04 am

load factor is around 70%
 
MACDADDY
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RE: The End Of Eujet May Be Nigh.

Tue Dec 07, 2004 10:34 am

3w, are you connected to EUJET?

If so, what is an acurate financial position?

I don't understand why so many people want airlines to go bust. Theres a thread on here about fly-i going under. These arm chair morons just want to see peoples lives messed up???

Back on subject. Eu arn't competing with eurostar. That go's to Paris and Brussels hence no routes there. If connecting by train to other euro services, they come out favourably I think! To get 4,000 pax to DUB in the face of Ryanair just around the M25 is a good achievement in 2 months.

I thought there was a Manchester route as well?

Good luck EUJET

MAC
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7LBAC111
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RE: The End Of Eujet May Be Nigh.

Tue Dec 07, 2004 5:44 pm

I don't understand why so many people want airlines to go bust. Theres a thread on here about fly-i going under. These arm chair morons just want to see peoples lives messed up???

MACDADDY - Just where in this thread does anyone say they want EUJet or anyone else to fail. I for one, take exception to your suggestion that I have no concern for the employee's plight at the ailing carriers - big and small.

7LBAC111
Debate is what you put on de hook when you want to catch de fish.
 
BestWestern
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RE: The End Of Eujet May Be Nigh.

Tue Dec 07, 2004 6:07 pm

Looking at the Dub figures based on 12 flights per week points to approx 11,108 seats on the route in October. Thats a 35% load factor. Lets hope november is an improvement.

I for one foresaw the Collapse of EUJET early on as an unknown airline from an unknown airport is too large a hurdle to overcome. FR could make a go at Manston as their brand is known and are able to cross subsidise losses at Manston with profits elsewhere.

Whats wrong with EUJet at Manston... The airports catchment area is 60% sea. Inland the catchment area is seriously eroded by Gatwick and Stansted. On top of this is an airline who's advertising is weak and route selection poor, with many routes not lasting two months.

The aircraft may be cheap to run, but with 35% loads an ATR42 would be operating full and at a lower operating cost.

[Edited 2004-12-07 10:10:57]
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PH-BFA
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RE: The End Of Eujet May Be Nigh.

Tue Dec 07, 2004 7:51 pm

Interesting topic. Flew with them two weeks ago. Load factor outbound of Amsterdam was 16(!) percent. Considering that my friends and I only paid 1 euro, it sure wasn't a very profitable flight.

And I do have to agree that Manston is in the middle of nowhere. Nice though to go over and drink in an English pub for a day.

PH-BFA
 
MACDADDY
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RE: The End Of Eujet May Be Nigh.

Tue Dec 07, 2004 10:16 pm

7lBAC111 - i think you are right to be offended on this occasion because this thread is more a factual look at events. However I'm sure you will agree that there is an element, perhaps more US based, who seem to take pleasure in revelaing gory facts of how airlines are fairing, and that some armchair analysis is very unproductive!

I genuinely believe that EUJET may be alright, but they have to focus on things they do well. I think they will get through this winter, and summer, but will have difficulty if they don't establish the brand strongly over say the March-May period. Right now they are using cheep fares to do that, but perhaps a change of tack to more TV, radio, billboard advertising will yield better results. All airlines chop and change routes, EUJET are no different, however warning signs from Vbird, and to an extent Debonair should be heeded.
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Pe@rson
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RE: The End Of Eujet May Be Nigh.

Wed Dec 08, 2004 2:56 am

If EUjet's load factor for DUB-MSE was 35% on the 100 (which, let's say, has 100 seats), then it'd surely be 70% on a AT4 (which, let's say, has 50 seats). If, then, you had only one daily flight, there would be a shortage of supply.

When you consider that the AT4 is far more efficient and probably far more cheaper to acquire, the route doesn't look bad at all.

And if the route was operated using the AT7 (which, say, has 70 seats), which is only 15% more expensive to run than the AT4 which has far fewer seats while cruising at a faster speed, then it looks very good indeed.

If a DUB-based low-cost airline operated either the AT4 or AT7, it could fly DUB-MSE-AMS-MSN-DUB (not offering DUB-AMS), as the AMS route also looks good.

[Edited 2004-12-07 18:59:59]
"Everyone writing for the Telegraph knows that the way to grab eyeballs is with Ryanair and/or sex."
 
Thomas_Jaeger
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RE: The End Of Eujet May Be Nigh.

Wed Dec 08, 2004 5:08 am

Hm, I guess with the yields they get on this 35% SLFs you would not necessarily make money on a ATR.

[Edited 2004-12-07 21:23:56]
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servisairkid
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RE: The End Of Eujet May Be Nigh.

Wed Dec 08, 2004 5:16 am

I don't know much about the company but i would like to see them expand. Not many f100's flying into the uk
 
BestWestern
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RE: The End Of Eujet May Be Nigh.

Wed Dec 08, 2004 7:39 am

Hm, I guess with the yields they get on this 35% SLFs you would not necessarily make money on a ATR.

No, but you would lose a hell of a lot less...  Sad

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Londoncenter
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RE: The End Of Eujet May Be Nigh.

Wed Dec 08, 2004 8:59 am

I heard the 35% load figure mentioned at work last week, but also that they had funding secured until next autumn, in which time they were hoping to have increased brand awareness and therefore loads etc. However that said, new procedures have been designed for the London Terminal Control Centre recently and they do NOT include any Manston procedures. If they were viewed as a permanent fixture then they would have to be in there!
 
Pe@rson
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RE: The End Of Eujet May Be Nigh.

Wed Dec 08, 2004 9:40 pm

Call me dumb (don't, actually  Laugh out loud ), but if an AT4 was full virtually everyday if not everyday, then you could play around with the yield quite a bit than if it was half-full or whatever, which surely means that it has the possibility of being a profitable route.
"Everyone writing for the Telegraph knows that the way to grab eyeballs is with Ryanair and/or sex."
 
virginlover1
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RE: The End Of Eujet May Be Nigh.

Wed Dec 08, 2004 10:24 pm

What you guys tend to forget is with Eujet going to manston it will create employment for the local area,As I only live twenty minutes from Manston and I can seriously say the eujet has made a mark in Kent lets not bury them just yet it was the same with Easyjet people said they wouldn't last, now look at them them they have some many flights in and out of Europe I will be using Eujet for the near future because it convenient for me.
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7LBAC111
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RE: The End Of Eujet May Be Nigh.

Wed Dec 08, 2004 10:32 pm

MACDADDY

Yeah - I agree it can seem that some people are out to facilitate the downfall of an airline through negative comments and feedback. I (hope) I don't come across as one of these!

VIRGINLOVER1

What you guys tend to forget is with Eujet going to manston it will create employment for the local area,As I only live twenty minutes from Manston and I can seriously say the eujet has made a mark in Kent lets not bury them just yet

As admirable as it is that you are committed to you local airline, if the company providing the funds AND the airport collapses the future is bleak for EUJet.

Planestation looks very precarious given they are only worth 2.83% of what they where 5 years ago, EUJ are operating flights with 35% load factors with fares leading in at £1.00. It's unsustainable even to me!

And while they may provide jobs to the locals and made their mark in Kent, they have NOT made such an impact anywhere else. I live in Manchester, and the only advertising I have seen from them is on the side of a half dozen taxi's in the city centre!

7LBAC111
Debate is what you put on de hook when you want to catch de fish.
 
BestWestern
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RE: The End Of Eujet May Be Nigh.

Wed Dec 08, 2004 10:46 pm

Pearson correct - Yield is all about simple supply and demand curves. If supply is reduced and demand stays the same prices should rise when demand outstrips supply.

EUJet have two issues – demand is too weak, and supply is too high. If they were to reduce supply and increase demand profitability may eventually materialise.

I do think that this could be perhaps solved with smaller aircraft. Reducing fleet to 42 seater ATR’s allows more marginal routes to be flown, and increasing frequency on business routes to attract more customers. Look at the SOUAMS service for example. CB operate this route four times daily with Dornier 328’s with approx 140 seats daily. Higher frequency reduces passenger leakage to London airports, and increases the chances of getting business passengers paying higher fares. Meanwhile EUJET have more (216) seats only twice daily, which is a less attractive schedule. Dornier / ATR per seat costs are higher, but overall flight operation costs would come down.

Demand could also be increased by improving sales strategy. Any manufacturer knows that distribution is key to getting your product into the faces of customers. Why doesn’t EUJET use travel agencies outside of Southern England to sell their product. Much cheaper then trying to get an unknown brand into customer’s minds. Failing that they could sponsor Manston United.


You are 100 times more likely to catch a cold on a flight than an average person!
 
sevenair
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RE: The End Of Eujet May Be Nigh.

Wed Dec 08, 2004 10:47 pm

Virginlover1I get what you are saying, I tihnk It is good to see regional development and investment, but I think the SouthEast has had enough investment for time being-I think they have a strong business Idea, but i think they should hav went for another area-perhaps Coventry, following Thomsonfly-but given the difficulties they are having devloping a new terminal, perhaps they shoud look further afield. It would be very difficult to start a new base, without the need for massive funding, but at the same time, it would not be right to pull out of Manston, given that there are many people counting on them for their daily bread-its a tough one, but I hope they will ull through