FlySSC
Posts: 5179
Joined: Tue Aug 12, 2003 1:38 am

Air France, European N°1 To Japan And Korea

Tue Dec 07, 2004 5:29 am

Air france will confirm its leadership of European Airline N°1 to Japan and Korea.

Air France is already operating this winter 5 x Weekly CDG-SEL, 17 x Weekly CDG-NRT and 1 x Daily CDG-KIX.

Air France has announced for the next summer season : 3 x Daily CDG-NRT, 1 x Daily CDG-KIX and 1 x Daily CDG-SEL :

CDG-NRT :

1234567 AF272 CDG.11:30 - NRT.06:25 - A332 -
1234567 AF276 CDG.13:15 - NRT.07:50 - B772ER -
1234567 AF278 CDG.23:25 - NRT.18:00 - B773ER -

NRT-CDG :

1234567 AF279 NRT.10:25 - CDG.16:00 - A332 -
1234567 AF275 NRT.12:10 - CDG.17:30 - B772ER -
1234567 AF277 NRT.21:55 - CDG.04:15 - B773ER -

CDG-KIX :

1234567 AF292 CDG.13:35 - KIX.08:10 - B773ER -

KIX - CDG :

1234567 AF291 KIX.11:40 - CDG.17:00 - B773ER -

CDG-SEL :

1234567 AF264 CDG.13:15 - ICN.07:10 - B772ER -

SEL-CDG :

1234567 AF267 ICN.09:45 - CDG.14:40 - B772ER -

Korean Airlines, Air France's Skyteam partner will also go from 5 x Weekly to a Daily flight SEL-CDG.
The two airlines are codesharing on this route, so both of them will be able to offer Two daily flights on CDG-SEL-CDG to their customers.


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m404
Posts: 1875
Joined: Tue Nov 25, 2003 4:43 pm

RE: Air France, European N°1 To Japan And Korea

Tue Dec 07, 2004 5:39 am

Now fit that in with Sky Team partners from those countries eastbound. Very impressive.
Less sarcasm and more thought equal better understanding
 
PanAmerican
Posts: 353
Joined: Thu Oct 09, 2003 8:32 pm

RE: Air France, European N°1 To Japan And Korea

Tue Dec 07, 2004 5:56 am

That is indeed impressive.
However, if I'm not totally off track, LH is currently No.1 from Europe to Japan/Korea with:

FRA-NRT 7x
FRA-KIX 7x
FRA-NGO 3x
FRA-SEL 7X
MUC-NRT 6x

That adds up to 30 compared to the 29 weekly flights that you listed for AF in the winter.
Plus LH operates a mix of 744s/A346s on the routes so the capacity is probably much greater than that of AF.

Don't know what LHs summer schedule will look like though... and I guess that was your main point.

 Smile/happy/getting dizzy PA
Pan Am - The World's Most Experienced Airline.
 
Carpethead
Posts: 2563
Joined: Mon Aug 02, 2004 8:15 pm

RE: Air France, European N°1 To Japan And Korea

Tue Dec 07, 2004 8:05 am

Not to mention the fact that FRA-NGO will go daily A343 once Centrair is up and running.

Interesting to see the 332 into NRT, I would have figured double daily 772ER and daily 773ER for pilot commonalities.
 
JoFMO
Posts: 1840
Joined: Wed Jul 14, 2004 1:55 am

RE: Air France, European N°1 To Japan And Korea

Tue Dec 07, 2004 11:59 am

We should add KLM to Japan and Korea:

7x NRT 777
7x KIX 777
7x ICN 74M

So the AF-Group is by far the biggest European operator to Japan and Korea.
 
HB-IWC
Posts: 4033
Joined: Fri Sep 22, 2000 1:09 am

RE: Air France, European N°1 To Japan And Korea

Tue Dec 07, 2004 12:06 pm

Could it be that the deployment of the A332 has someting to do with AF's only being able to obtain additional slots that way? The A332 can probably use NRT's second runway for arrival. This is just a hypothesis though, I have no inside information about this matter.

 
Carpethead
Posts: 2563
Joined: Mon Aug 02, 2004 8:15 pm

RE: Air France, European N°1 To Japan And Korea

Tue Dec 07, 2004 12:26 pm

JoFMO,
7 x NRT is (4x777, 3x74E/744)
7 x KIX is 74E/744 not 777, at least currently.

772ERs regularly can use the shorter runway at NRT, as does A343s. Mostly for landings though. 773ER is not possible, scheduled. I have heard once a 773 landed on the short runway when the longer runway was shutdown.

Anybody know if KLM will re-start service to NGO. They had service with 4 x M11 until a few months after 9-11. AF has a fairly extensive codeshare with JL now and JL will start NGO-CDG with their own 772ER, so AF will not place their own equipment on that route.
 
JoFMO
Posts: 1840
Joined: Wed Jul 14, 2004 1:55 am

RE: Air France, European N°1 To Japan And Korea

Tue Dec 07, 2004 1:07 pm

@Carpethead:

I checked the dates in the downloadable skyteam e-timetable for next summer. But only checked theequipment for one day. So maybe they change their equipment on several days.
 
CPH-R
Posts: 6058
Joined: Thu May 03, 2001 5:19 pm

RE: Air France, European N°1 To Japan And Korea

Tue Dec 07, 2004 1:16 pm

I still love this flight:
1234567 AF277 NRT.21:55 - CDG.04:15 - B773ER -

I don't think any other airline have such creativity to do such a flight. I've been told so far that it's due to connecting pax coming in from New Caledonia as well as very beneficial winds going eastbound, that makes AF use this particular routing.
 
FlySSC
Posts: 5179
Joined: Tue Aug 12, 2003 1:38 am

RE: Air France, European N°1 To Japan And Korea

Tue Dec 07, 2004 5:47 pm

CPH-R,

The winds have nothing to do with this schedule !

AF277 is indeed the connecting flights for PAX in connection from NOU (Noumea, French New Caledonia). It is scheduled at 21:55 to have a safety margin in case of a technical problem, or delay of the flight from NOU (AF2277), as no a/c are allowed to take off from NRT after 23:00.

But with a take off at 21:55, if AF277 would follow the "usual" route, it would arrive at 3:15, in the middle of the night. CDG2 is closed at that time. There is no train/taxi to reach Paris and AF would have to keep a whole team of ground Staff at CDG just to handle this flight...
That's why AF decided, after considering it would cost much cheaper, that this flight would take a further north route, and would slow down during the cruise, to arrive at a "decent" schedule in CDG....!
 
CPH-R
Posts: 6058
Joined: Thu May 03, 2001 5:19 pm

RE: Air France, European N°1 To Japan And Korea

Tue Dec 07, 2004 6:16 pm

Ok, I stand corrected on the winds issue (a flightplan I saw a few years back had it go pretty much over northern canada the whole way, I was told that this was due to winds). The pax connecting from NOU sounds like a much more viable reason for this oddball flight.

I've coded a flight from 2003, while it was still operated by a B744, into FS, and the route looks pretty funky. First it follows the traditional track from NRT towards ANC, but then it heads north and then it looks like it goes just shy of the north pole in an easternly direction, before heading down on the North polar tracks towards Norway, Denmark etc. before arriving in CDG.

Does anyone know what the loads are like on that flight? With the NOU flights, as I understand it, being operated by Aircalin's A332 and most pax transferring onto the CDG flight, I would imagine that this particular flight is pretty popular.

[Edited 2004-12-07 10:19:08]
 
FlySSC
Posts: 5179
Joined: Tue Aug 12, 2003 1:38 am

RE: Air France, European N°1 To Japan And Korea

Tue Dec 07, 2004 6:34 pm

CPH-R,

The load factors of this flight are excellent, not only due to the connections from NOU, but this flight is also very popular among the Japanese tourists and T.O.
OK it's longer than the two others but it's a night flight. It leaves you the whole day at Tokyo on your departure day and arrives very early for a whole day in Paris, which is not the case of the two ohters daytime flights.

Note that THIS is the flight operated by the B773ER.
 
JoFMO
Posts: 1840
Joined: Wed Jul 14, 2004 1:55 am

RE: Air France, European N°1 To Japan And Korea

Tue Dec 07, 2004 10:49 pm

I don't know why not more European carriers have a night flight from NRT. Like FLYSSC has discribed, it is very convinient for business passengers, because you don't loose the whole day.

LH in geeneral serves it's FRA flight from HKG,PEK,PVG as a daily flight, while it's additional MUC one is an overnight one. But it's not the case for the NRT-MUC, which is the usual daily flight. I hope they will follow AF and chance it to a night flight.
 
Flying Belgian
Posts: 1906
Joined: Mon Jun 04, 2001 12:45 am

RE: Air France, European N°1 To Japan And Korea

Tue Dec 07, 2004 10:51 pm

Waouw !! CDG-Japan with an A332, this must be one of the longest A332 leg in the world...

I would like to try the AF 773ER one of those days...

FB.
Life is great at 41.000 feet...
 
FlySSC
Posts: 5179
Joined: Tue Aug 12, 2003 1:38 am

RE: Air France, European N°1 To Japan And Korea

Wed Dec 08, 2004 1:29 am

Air France already operated the A332 on CDG-KIX (5210nm).

CDG-NRT is only 46nm more with 5256 nm...

CORSAIR operates its A332 on ORY-RUN : 5042nm

But I think you are right... CDG-NRT will be probably the longest route operated by an A332.
Anybody else has another idea ?
 
CPH-R
Posts: 6058
Joined: Thu May 03, 2001 5:19 pm

RE: Air France, European N°1 To Japan And Korea

Wed Dec 08, 2004 9:46 am

How far is the CDG Guanhzou (or how on earth you spell it) route? IIRC, it's also one of the longer runs for the A332.
 
gigneil
Posts: 14133
Joined: Fri Nov 08, 2002 10:25 am

RE: Air France, European N°1 To Japan And Korea

Wed Dec 08, 2004 10:00 am

CDG-NRT is, indeed, the furthest. AF stresses their fleet the most of any 332 carrier.

They operate (or used to) CDG-KIX, CDG-CAN, CDG-GRU, amongst others.

KE's ICN-ZRH is a fair bit shorter.

N
 
DABVF
Posts: 150
Joined: Sat Sep 11, 2004 10:39 pm

RE: Air France, European N°1 To Japan And Korea

Wed Dec 08, 2004 3:49 pm

Currently Lufthansa plans to operate the following flights to Japan/Korea in Summer 2005:

7/7 LH0710 Frankfurt-Tokyo 744
7/7 LH0712 Frankfurt-Seoul 346
6/7 LH0714 Munich-Tokyo 343
7/7 LH0736 Frankfurt-Nagoya 343
7/7 LH0740 Frankfurt-Osaka 346
 
Lockheed1011
Posts: 154
Joined: Wed Dec 08, 2004 4:04 pm

RE: Air France, European N°1 To Japan And Korea

Wed Dec 08, 2004 4:23 pm

Air France will dominate!