AirWales
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Why Do Airlines Operate Out Of Both JFK And EWR

Tue Dec 07, 2004 6:36 am

Hi,

Just wondering what the main reason why airlines (non US) such as BA and VS operate of of both EWR and JFK to Heathrow for example. Is it necessary for 1 airline to operate out of 2 airports in the same city which then arrive in the same city? Is it due to landing/departure slots or some other reason.

Thanks.

P.s. whilst we are on this, which airlines operate along these lines (Only airlines which are not from the country in which the airport in question lies).
 
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STT757
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RE: Why Do Airlines Operate Out Of Both JFK And EWR

Tue Dec 07, 2004 6:48 am

The NYC tri-State are (New York, New Jersey, Connecticut) is huge and sprawled out, and driving from New Jersey to JFK and vice versa can anywhere from 90 minutes to three hours in bad weather.

JFK caters to folks on the East Side of Manhattan, as well as the boroughs of Queens, Brooklyn and the suburbs of Long Island.

EWR caters to Northern New Jersey, the West Side of Manhattan, Northern Suburbs of Rockland and Orange Counties NY, Staten Island and Eastern Pennsylvania.

JFK and EWR split traffic from Westchester and Fairfield County Connecticut.

Northern New Jersey (EWR) is a market upon itself with 8 million inhabitants and major Corporate Headquarters including BASF, Honeywell, Merck, Bristol Meyers Squib, At&t, Lucent, Johnson & Johnson etc..

Also many other pharmeceutical and Bio-med companies have facilities along the Princeton University/Route 1 research corridor.

That business will not go to JFK, too long of a drive.


Eastern Air lines flt # 701, EWR-MCO Boeing 757
 
TWFirst
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RE: Why Do Airlines Operate Out Of Both JFK And EWR

Tue Dec 07, 2004 6:50 am

For the same reason why BA operates out of both LGW and LHR to places.... there is demand, and the airports are far enough apart that it is definitely more convenient to go to/from one particular airport over another depending on where you're going to or coming from.
An unexamined life isn't worth living.
 
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FlyCaledonian
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RE: Why Do Airlines Operate Out Of Both JFK And EWR

Tue Dec 07, 2004 6:59 am

TWFirst, not strictly true with BA. It tried the dual hub approach in the late 1990s and it wasn't working. Very few routes of BA's overlap at LHR and LGW and the majority of those are domestic.

BA serves IAD and BWI, catering for the Washington Metropolitan area.

Shorthaul it used to serve CDG and ORY, but now just CDG. MXP and LIN both enjoy BA service from LHR, LIN being more popular with business travellers due to its closer proximity to Milan.

CO used to serve STN as well as LGW, to cater for the North East London market, plus East of England, but the service didn't last long.

SQ serves EWR with its nonstop SIN-EWR service but JFK with its SIN-FRA-JFK one.
Let's Go British Caledonian!
 
hardiwv
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RE: Why Do Airlines Operate Out Of Both JFK And EWR

Tue Dec 07, 2004 7:02 am

KL also operates AMS-JFK with the 747, and AMS-EWR with the 767.

Rgs,
 
Southamerica
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RE: Why Do Airlines Operate Out Of Both JFK And EWR

Tue Dec 07, 2004 7:11 am


Count AF and AZ on that list also.



SOUTHAMERICA
 
mark777300
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RE: Why Do Airlines Operate Out Of Both JFK And EWR

Tue Dec 07, 2004 7:16 am

while NYC itself lies between JFK and EWR, there is a huge market in this region and both airports are in truth serving different regions of the tri-state area. for example, I live by the border of Queens county and Nassau county, only a 5 minute drive to JFK, a 10 minute drive to LGA. EWR however is an almost 60 minute drive. People who live in Queens, Brooklyn and Long Island would be better served by flying into JFK or LGA (ISP as well). People who live in NW and central NJ would be closer and better served by EWR. There is an equally huge population on both sides of the Hudson River that can support the services of an airline flying into both JFK and EWR and even additionally LGA. For folks in Manhattan, you have three options to choose from which are all convienient. AA, UA, DL, and NW all fly into all three airports. CO hub is in EWR, a sizeable presence in LGA, but only a hand full of flights to JFK. US Airways flies into LGA and EWR. This is probably the biggest market served in the US when you factor in the population of NY/LI, Connecticut, and Northern/ central NJ.
 
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N328KF
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RE: Why Do Airlines Operate Out Of Both JFK And EW

Tue Dec 07, 2004 7:16 am

There are plenty of airlines that serve both ORD and MDW:

AA
CO
DL
NW
UA
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avek00
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RE: Why Do Airlines Operate Out Of Both JFK And EWR

Tue Dec 07, 2004 7:16 am

Because unless there is absolutely NO other alternative, people who would otherwise use JFK will not use EWR, and vice versa.
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N328KF
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RE: Why Do Airlines Operate Out Of Both JFK And EW

Tue Dec 07, 2004 7:19 am

Let's not forget that there are five NYC-area airports:

EWR
HPN
ISP
JFK
LGA
When they call the roll in the Senate, the Senators do not know whether to answer 'Present' or 'Not guilty.' -Theodore Roosevelt
 
TWFirst
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RE: Why Do Airlines Operate Out Of Both JFK And EWR

Tue Dec 07, 2004 7:24 am

FlyCaledonian:

Bad example on my part... a better example would be to cite AA serving both LHR & LGW.
An unexamined life isn't worth living.
 
iowa744fan
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RE: Why Do Airlines Operate Out Of Both JFK And EWR

Tue Dec 07, 2004 7:28 am

Virgin Atlantic (VS) flies to both JFK and EWR from LHR.
LOT flies to Warsaw from both JFK and EWR.
El Al flies to both JFK and EWR from TLV

Except for SQ, I don't think that any Asian carriers fly to both. Eva and Malaysian fly into EWR, but neither serves JFK...unless with cargo flights.
 
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STT757
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RE: Why Do Airlines Operate Out Of Both JFK And EWR

Tue Dec 07, 2004 7:32 am

"Let's not forget that there are five NYC-area airports:

EWR
HPN
ISP
JFK
LGA "

There are four real NYC Metro Airports operated by the Port Authority, two in New Jersey and two in NYC.

New Jersey has..

Newark which gets the best mix of International and Domestic flights, plus has the CO hub.

And Teterboro which is Gulfstream heaven, major Corporate FBO airport. Celebrities and Corporate Power brokers heading to and from NYC fly GV's etc into Teterboro and then helicopters into Manhattan.

NYC has..

Laguardia, which is a business oriented regional airport with flights limited to no more than 1,500 miles with some exceptions.

JFK, International heavy but Domestic network is limited to mostly leisure destinations (Florida, Las Vegas, California) and anything else that cannot be served by LGA.
Eastern Air lines flt # 701, EWR-MCO Boeing 757
 
mikephotos
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RE: Why Do Airlines Operate Out Of Both JFK And EWR

Tue Dec 07, 2004 7:33 am

P.s. whilst we are on this, which airlines operate along these lines (Only airlines which are not from the country in which the airport in question lies).

Mentioned above: KL, AF, AZ

Additions: AI, LX, SQ, LH, BA, VS, AC, LY

Please add any I forgot...

(Edit: Sorry was typing this while Iowa744fan posted so didn't get to include his in the "Mentioned above")

Mike



[Edited 2004-12-06 23:35:40]
 
COEWRNJ
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RE: Why Do Airlines Operate Out Of Both JFK And EWR

Tue Dec 07, 2004 7:34 am

Here's a quick example. My parents refuse to have me fly into either JFK LGA> as I live about 15 min from EWR. This Thanksgiving my HP flight from EWR to LAS was delayed and the only chance that I had to make my connection was from JFK. Now I didn't think my parents would have a problem driving me out there, but instead they took me to EWR and put me on the shuttle. The shuttle ride from EWR took almost two hours and if your paying tolls its close to $20. JFK is and will always be the last resort for them. They will pretty much do anything not to use JFK. Most people I know in my area are pretty much the same in that regard.

[Edited 2004-12-06 23:48:30]
 
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FlyCaledonian
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RE: Why Do Airlines Operate Out Of Both JFK And EWR

Tue Dec 07, 2004 7:36 am

TWFirst, its another bad example I'm afraid, as AA is forced by Bermuda II to serve both LGW and LHR. It cannot operate its RDU and DFW flights to LHR as neither are a US gateway from there for a US carrier. It's why UA doesn't operate a London service from Denver as it can't serve LHR, so would have to serve LGW (Which if it did would force BA to switch its DEN service back to LGW).

AA did I believe operate a BOS-LGW flight a couple of years back, for at least one summer season. I assume it was to add capacity to London but it didn't have an LHR slot.

VS did operate from LHR and LGW to EWR but since 9/11 it only serves EWR from LHR, relying on its codeshare with CO to serve LGW from the New York area.

BA serves IAH from LHR and LGW, but the former routes via ORD (Again can't be nonstop under Bermuda II) and is mainly to provide connections to BA's flights to LOS and the Middle East for oil executives.
Let's Go British Caledonian!
 
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STT757
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RE: Why Do Airlines Operate Out Of Both JFK And EWR

Tue Dec 07, 2004 7:43 am

International Airlines that serve both EWR and JFK;

Alitalia, British Airways, Air France, KLM, Swiss, Lufthansa, Singapore, Lot Polish, Virgin Atlantic, Air Jamaica, Air India, CSA Czech Air, El Al.

International Airlines that serve EWR but not JFK;

Air Canada, SAS, EVA Airways, Malaysian, TAP Air Portugal, (Ethiopian?).

EWR lost a couple of airlines after 9-11 that have yet to come back;

Korean, Aer Lingus, Avianca, and Sabena (who's no gone).

Eastern Air lines flt # 701, EWR-MCO Boeing 757
 
alespesl
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RE: Why Do Airlines Operate Out Of Both JFK And EWR

Tue Dec 07, 2004 7:44 am

CSA Czech Airlines also flies both JFK and EWR airports.
 
COEWRNJ
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RE: Why Do Airlines Operate Out Of Both JFK And EWR

Tue Dec 07, 2004 7:45 am

AC serves JFK daily to YVR and Ethiopian will be leaving EWR shortly.
 
petazulu
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RE: Why Do Airlines Operate Out Of Both JFK And EWR

Tue Dec 07, 2004 7:47 am

I think Air Canada flies Vancouver - JFK. At least they did!
 
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STT757
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RE: Why Do Airlines Operate Out Of Both JFK And EWR

Tue Dec 07, 2004 7:48 am

You cannot compare EWR and JFK with LHR and LGW as LHR is severely restricted and limited where as anyone can fly to either EWR, JFK or both.

EWR and JFK are unique in the World as being two major International Airports serving the same region as close as they are (mileage wise) , EWR and JFK are exactly the same distance from Mid-Town Manhattan (15 Miles).



Eastern Air lines flt # 701, EWR-MCO Boeing 757
 
mikephotos
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RE: Why Do Airlines Operate Out Of Both JFK And EWR

Tue Dec 07, 2004 7:50 am

Yes, AC is still flying daily A319 service to/from JFK.

Mike
 
COEWRNJ
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RE: Why Do Airlines Operate Out Of Both JFK And EWR

Tue Dec 07, 2004 7:50 am

AC still flys to JFK from YVR as AC548 and AC549
 
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STT757
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RE: Why Do Airlines Operate Out Of Both JFK And EWR

Tue Dec 07, 2004 7:51 am

"I think Air Canada flies Vancouver - JFK "

Seasonaly, I believe right now they don't but may restart the flight in June.?..
Eastern Air lines flt # 701, EWR-MCO Boeing 757
 
mikephotos
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RE: Why Do Airlines Operate Out Of Both JFK And EWR

Tue Dec 07, 2004 7:52 am

Seasonaly, I believe right now they don't but may restart the flight in June.?..

No, they are flying it year round AFAIK.

Here's an Avail. for tomorrow:
17DECYVRJFK‡AC«
YVR-SEE TX*YVR RE 5-15.00 FEE
07DEC TUE YVR/PST JFK/EST‡3
1AC 548 J0 C0 Y9 M9 U9*YVRJFK 215P 1019P 319 M 0 DCA /E
A9 B9 V9 Q9 L9 R9 I9 N9 G0

Visual aid : )
View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Michael F. McLaughlin




Mike

[Edited 2004-12-06 23:57:21]
 
COEWRNJ
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RE: Why Do Airlines Operate Out Of Both JFK And EWR

Tue Dec 07, 2004 7:53 am

YVR is currently still operating. I took the flight numbers from the PANYNJ's website using today's date.
 
stealthpilot
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RE: Why Do Airlines Operate Out Of Both JFK And EW

Tue Dec 07, 2004 10:00 am

Iowa744fan:
"Except for SQ, I don't think that any Asian carriers fly to both. Eva and Malaysian fly into EWR, but neither serves JFK...unless with cargo flights."

AI serves both ERW and JFK
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BIGBlack
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RE: Why Do Airlines Operate Out Of Both JFK And EWR

Tue Dec 07, 2004 10:19 am

It's already been answered prob the best by STT but Newark is close to NYC but JFK and EWR are totally on in 2 different places location wise as far as travel is concerned and totally not in the same city.

[Edited 2004-12-07 02:20:20]
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MAH4546
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RE: Why Do Airlines Operate Out Of Both JFK And EW

Tue Dec 07, 2004 10:22 am

Except for SQ, I don't think that any Asian carriers fly to both. Eva and Malaysian fly into EWR, but neither serves JFK...unless with cargo flights.

Air India and El Al fly to both as well.
a.
 
iluv747400
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RE: Why Do Airlines Operate Out Of Both JFK And EWR

Tue Dec 07, 2004 10:31 am

Mexicana recently switched from EWR to JFK.
 
flyguy1
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RE: Why Do Airlines Operate Out Of Both JFK And EWR

Tue Dec 07, 2004 10:39 am

ET will be leaving EWR soon, at that point they're only US gateway will be IAD.
727, L1011, MD80, A300, 777-200, 737-300, 737-700, 747-400, 757-200, 737-800, A320. E190, E135, 767-200, CRJ9
 
navega
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RE: Why Do Airlines Operate Out Of Both JFK And EWR

Tue Dec 07, 2004 10:41 am

AirWales,

It is very difficult for people to understand the east coast
of the United States that is probably one of the most populated areas in the world. There are millions of people
in small areas that even some cities in NY or NJ have more
people that in some European Countries. Manhattan is
very small but has millions of people and that is why there
are 3 airports 2 of which are international and whom are
both busting at the seams with passengers.

The east coast of the United States is very much like Europe
as one can be in a large city like NY and drive 3 hours to
a Philadelphia which is another big city and then drive 1 1/2 hours to Baltimore and then another 45 minutes to
Washington D.C. and all cities with Millions of inhabitants.

The airlines that fly to both EWR and JFK are working with
2 completely different city markets and once in a while
business men will opt for one or another or even LGA.

Someone put it very well in saying, "for the same reason
that BA flies to both airports in London".

Hope this gives you one more opinion on your question
 
AirWales
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RE: Why Do Airlines Operate Out Of Both JFK And EWR

Tue Dec 07, 2004 7:51 pm

Yeah thanks, great answers guys. Think we must of covered all the airlines operating out of the 2 by now.
 
dkny
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RE: Why Do Airlines Operate Out Of Both JFK And EWR

Tue Dec 07, 2004 8:57 pm

ET left EWR October 1, 2004
 
rwylie77
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RE: Why Do Airlines Operate Out Of Both JFK And EWR

Tue Dec 07, 2004 11:24 pm

TWFirst - No, the American airlines example is another bad idea, because they would prefer all of their flights to go into Heathrow but have to use Gatwick for some flights because of BermudaII
 
JoFMO
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RE: Why Do Airlines Operate Out Of Both JFK And EWR

Tue Dec 07, 2004 11:34 pm

@NAVEGA:

I think we all here on the other side of the pond understand very well what the east coast corridor NYC-PHL-WAS is like.

The situation with JFK and EWR is unique in the world, not even Tokyo metropolis which has double the amount of inhabitants than New York is compareable.

Many of you discribe that both airports cater for a different population base, what sound logical.
But it's difficult to understand why London isn't going the same why. From many points in welthy south west London and Kent LHR is as difficult to reach as JFK from Newark and Jersey. But I think we might get a similar situation in London than in new York when Bermuda II will once be lifted. I could see an airline like CO flying to LHR and GTW from theri EWR hub. Maybe they will also serve STN, which caters another London market containing the cambridge high tech area.
 
rwylie77
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RE: Why Do Airlines Operate Out Of Both JFK And EWR

Tue Dec 07, 2004 11:42 pm

Also I think don't think Gatwick and Heathrow are comparable. They are only a 30 minute drive apart around the M25, where Newark and JFK are on opposite sides of the city.

Heathrow is a major hub which is easy for everybody to get to in and outside of London, and would be everybody's first choice to fly to and from. Gatwick however, sometimes is needed due to Bermuda II or overcrowding at Heathrow. BA for example flies to leasure destinations such as Orlando due to the high O&D traffic, as there will be no need to use feeder traffic from Heathrow's network of flights.

Gatwick is also a major charter airport and increasingly a LCC airport, with EasyJet now the biggest schedules airline at Gatwick.

Newark and JFK meanwhile are close geographically, but a long way apart timewise and as people have said, serve completely different people. DAvid Neeleman set up JetBlue at JFK simply because there are 8 million people who live outside Manhatten within 8 miles or 30 minutes from the airport.
 
pilatusguy
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RE: Why Do Airlines Operate Out Of Both JFK And EWR

Wed Dec 08, 2004 1:34 am

Another example:
Business people who have to go to Manhattan (personally doing that alot) would opt for EWR because you get to Manhattan faster than from JFK (my personal experience). Keep in mind that most large financial services companies have their offices in the heart of Manhattan.
This is probably the reason why LX is starting to offer business-class service only flights to EWR but keeps 3-class service on it's ZRH-JFK route....

my 2 cents anyway
 
mikephotos
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RE: Why Do Airlines Operate Out Of Both JFK And EWR

Wed Dec 08, 2004 1:58 am

Business people who have to go to Manhattan (personally doing that alot) would opt for EWR because you get to Manhattan faster than from JFK (my personal experience).

It really depends on where they are flying to. I do a huge amount of bookings NY-Westcoast (LAX/SFO), 90% of my travelers prefer JFK over EWR because of frequency of flights and their loyalty to United and American. For our London (and beyond) travelers, again JFK is first choice. Of course, there are a lot of CO Onepass (just not in my company) lovers and EWR is the best choice for them. For business travelers, mileage usually wins out over a few extra minutes of travel to/from the airport.

Mike
 
N62NA
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RE: Why Do Airlines Operate Out Of Both JFK And EWR

Wed Dec 08, 2004 2:04 am


I do a huge amount of bookings NY-Westcoast (LAX/SFO), 90% of my travelers prefer JFK over EWR because of frequency of flights and their loyalty to United and American.

Yeah, if you are a UA or AA flyer and live in NJ or the west side of Manhattan, it sucks that you can't experience "flagship" or "premium" or whatever UA / AA call their JFK-LAX/SFO service from EWR.

Are there just no UA/AA fliers in NJ??? Not everyone in NJ flies CO.

Come on, UA and AA - (well probably just AA, since UA seems to have given up on EWR), upgrade your EWR transcon service!
 
JoFMO
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RE: Why Do Airlines Operate Out Of Both JFK And EWR

Wed Dec 08, 2004 2:05 am

@Pilatusguy:

I have a similar feeling like you. Swiss is just the last in a line who focus it's business passengers in EWR. LH's all business flights form MUC and DUS both go to EWR, while their 3class planes stay in JFK. Another example is SQ, which flies it's SIN nonstop to EWR.


@Rwylie77:

GTW and LHR are not too far away form each other, but you really travel between them in 20 minutes. I think the M25 can be a nightmare traffic-wise.
 
LUV4JFK
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RE: Why Do Airlines Operate Out Of Both JFK And EWR

Wed Dec 08, 2004 2:10 am

Trust me when I say as a native New Yorker, it's all about the traffic. Every car, truck, bus, van, train & taxi are heading into Manhattan. The drive to and from JFK to Manhattan can absolutely kill you during rush hour because of the Van Wyck Expwy and the Long Island Expwy, by far 2 of Queens' worst highways to drive on if you want to move. However, the ride to EWR could be much smoother. There is always a chance for traffic, but believe me New Jersey traffic isn't as bad as New York City traffic.

I live close to the Queens/Nassau border and even though it's a longer route, I go to EWR through the Bronx and Manhattan via Throgs Neck or Whitestone and George Washington Bridges rather than Brooklyn and Staten Island via Verrazano and Goethals Bridges. I would rather sit in 6 miles of backed up traffic on the Cross Bronx Expwy (which is usually a stand still) than 20+ miles backed up traffic on the Belt Pkwy and another 3 or 4 miles on the Staten Island Expwy. It may take more mileage, but I get there in 40 to 45 minutes versus over an hour the "quicker" way.

You just have to learn to maneuver. This is why New Yorkers have a bad reputation when it comes to driving, myself included.  Innocent

LUV4JFK
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John F. Kennedy International Airport: Where America Greets The World.
 
elwood64151
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RE: Why Do Airlines Operate Out Of Both JFK And EWR

Wed Dec 08, 2004 2:17 am

The NYC tri-State are (New York, New Jersey, Connecticut) is huge and sprawled out, and driving from New Jersey to JFK and vice versa can anywhere from 90 minutes to three hours in bad weather.

Actually, it's not physically very large, really. Certainly people from Fairfield County, CT and Nassau/Suffolk Counties in NY would find a flight originating from EWR to be very inconvenient, and the same goes for people living in Orange or New Brunswick, NJ going to JFK. That said, the physical dimensions of the metro aren't all that large when compared even to smaller cities such as Detroit, Denver, or even Kansas City. The major reason NYC is such a massive metro is that it is very densely packed.

This is probably the biggest market served in the US when you factor in the population of NY/LI, Connecticut, and Northern/ central NJ.

No "probably" about it. The NYC metro is nearly twice the size of Los Angeles, 2 1/2 times the size of Chicago, and at least four times the size of any other North American city excepting MEX.

There are four real NYC Metro Airports operated by the Port Authority, two in New Jersey and two in NYC.

Yes, but Teterboro is hardly a true "commercial" airport, and ISP and HPN are close to the city (HPN is actually closer to the Bronx than EWR is to any borough).

EWR and JFK are exactly the same distance from Mid-Town Manhattan (15 Miles).

Yeah, but there's about four times as many people in Brooklyn as Manhattan...

It is very difficult for people to understand the east coast of the United States that is probably one of the most populated areas in the world. There are millions of people in small areas that even some cities in NY or NJ have more people that in some European Countries. Manhattan is very small but has millions of people and that is why there are 3 airports 2 of which are international and whom are both busting at the seams with passengers.

1) Actually, while the northeastern section of the East Coast is very heavily populated, it is far from the most populated section of the world. Areas in Japan, India, China, Mexico, and Europe are far more densely populated.

2) Manhattan itself has only slightly more than a million people. Brooklyn is where most of the people in New York City live (much to the dismay of people in the other boroughs, I understand!).

3) All three airports are international airports. LGA has service to Canada and a few other international destinations.

4) JFK is hardly bursting at the seams. It has the capacity for many millions more passengers than it currently handles. AFAIK, only LGA is truly overcrowded.

The situation with JFK and EWR is unique in the world, not even Tokyo metropolis which has double the amount of inhabitants than New York is compareable.

The Tokyo metro has forty-six million people? Are you sure you're not comparing the population of the City of Tokyo (proper) the the City of New York City (proper)? I must admit I honestly don't know...

Also I think don't think Gatwick and Heathrow are comparable. They are only a 30 minute drive apart around the M25, where Newark and JFK are on opposite sides of the city.

Good point. It would be very difficult to drive "around" NYC between JFK and EWR... That'd be one helluva bridge!

DAvid Neeleman set up JetBlue at JFK simply because there are 8 million people who live outside Manhatten within 8 miles or 30 minutes from the airport.

Also, JFK has room for expansion and there is no major hub at that airport (there is one at EWR - CO).

Business people who have to go to Manhattan (personally doing that alot) would opt for EWR because you get to Manhattan faster than from JFK (my personal experience). Keep in mind that most large financial services companies have their offices in the heart of Manhattan.

This may be true of business travelers from Europe, but my personal experience has been that people travelling in the US prefer JFK or LGA. Especially if they are originating from the New York side of the Hudson River.
Those who fail to learn history are doomed to repeat it in summer school.
 
JoFMO
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RE: Why Do Airlines Operate Out Of Both JFK And EWR

Wed Dec 08, 2004 2:40 am

@Elwood:

Regarding the size of Tokyo and New York I had the following figures:
The US census bureau sais that the New York standard metropolitan area has 18 million inhabitants. And Tokyo is somewhere boyond 30 millions in its metropolitan area. So Tokyo is nearly double in size than NY.
 
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N328KF
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RE: Why Do Airlines Operate Out Of Both JFK And EW

Wed Dec 08, 2004 2:58 am

JoFMO:

It's really a single megalopolis running from Boston through NYC, Trenton, Philadelphia, Baltimore, and ending at Washington, D.C. 44 million people.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BosWash

[Edited 2004-12-07 19:09:57]
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TWFirst
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RE: Why Do Airlines Operate Out Of Both JFK And EWR

Wed Dec 08, 2004 3:05 am

>It's really a single megalopolis running from Boston through NYC, Trenton, Philadelphia, Baltimore, and ending at Washington, D.C.<<

I think it now ends at Richmond.
An unexamined life isn't worth living.
 
airbazar
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RE: Why Do Airlines Operate Out Of Both JFK And EWR

Wed Dec 08, 2004 3:12 am

LUV4JFk has nailed it on the head. It's all about the traffic. The NY/NJ market is not that much larger than say London or Tokyo, however in the US there is no other way to travel except driving and the roads are miserable. So to travel the smallest amount of a distance, like the 30 miles or so between JFK and EWR it can take hours.

In cities like London and Tokyo, you have decent, or in the case of Tokyo, great public transportation and roads that aren't nearly as crowded as the ones we have here.
 
avek00
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RE: Why Do Airlines Operate Out Of Both JFK And EWR

Wed Dec 08, 2004 3:20 am

"Come on, UA and AA - (well probably just AA, since UA seems to have given up on EWR), upgrade your EWR transcon service!"

Why?

During the 2000 SFH, the balance of power on the EWR-SFO/LAX routes shifted decisively to CO. Furthermore, CO offers (or can easily offer) widebodies complete with BF seating and PTVs at every seat for peak time transcon flights - UA and AA can't or won't commit their 763s/777s to those routes, so CO wins on product as well.
Live life to the fullest.
 
JoFMO
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RE: Why Do Airlines Operate Out Of Both JFK And EWR

Wed Dec 08, 2004 3:20 am

Well, I travelled the whole route from DC to Boston by train. And there were some rural areas between DC and NY, and most of the way to Boston was also very rural. Lot of open space, Forests etc.
Maybe you guys in America have a different opinion on what is rural than we have in Europe.
If I follow your opinion that from Boston to Washington is one megalopolis I would also have to consider the whole route from Munich to Amsterdam as one metropolis. But that is definetely not like we would define a metropolis.

Maybe you have the Dacotas in mind when you are talking about rural areas, although we would call it 'unpopulated'.

It is all just a question of definition.
 
TWFirst
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Joined: Wed Apr 19, 2000 5:30 am

RE: Why Do Airlines Operate Out Of Both JFK And EWR

Wed Dec 08, 2004 3:31 am

>>Maybe you guys in America have a different opinion on what is rural than we have in Europe.<<

Yes.

What you saw as "rural" and "forests" are viewed merely as undeveloped land here. We have a much different/bigger scale here. In the U.S., metropolitan areas are huge by European standards... it's also known as sprawl. People can live more than an hour from the core city, yet commute to the city to work... tune in to the core city's media outlets... read the core city's newspaper, and generally consider themselves living in the suburbs of the core city. So, New York's metropolitan area morph's into New Haven's and Hartford's which then morph into Providence's which then morphs into Boston, etc.

In Europe, you can live down the road a few kilometers from a large city, yet pay no attention to or relate your life to it.... and another factor is that you have so many different languages and cultures/traditions within a small area. Not so here.
An unexamined life isn't worth living.