Imonti
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Bush Admin To File Lawsuit Against Airbus Aid.

Wed Dec 08, 2004 7:31 am


U.S. `Won't Wait Long' to File WTO Lawsuit Against Airbus Aid
December 7, 2004 05:54 EST -- The Bush administration ``won't wait long'' before asking the World Trade Organization to rule on the legality of European subsidies used to develop Airbus SAS aircraft, U.S. Trade Representative Robert Zoellick said

http://quote.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=conews&tkr=BA:US

[Edited 2004-12-07 23:32:34]
 
AZjetgeek
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RE: Bush Admin To File Lawsuit Against Airbus Aid.

Wed Dec 08, 2004 8:45 am

Yeah. That ought to really improve US-EU relations - NOT!!!!

Bush brought this topic up during the campaign and I was flabbergasted when I heard his comments. For his administration to file a lawsuit trying to tell the EU it is NOT allowed to subsidize an aircraft manufacturing concern that employs thousands goes beyond ludicrous.

Here's my take on this: If Bush is unhappy about the Airbus subsidies, perhaps he should consider doing what former Presidential candidate Dennis Kucinich stated more than a year ago - GET OUT of the WTO. Otherwise, stop trying to dictate to the EU how it should do business. The EU understands the impact Airbus has on the economy of its member nations. Fighting over these subsidies is childish and foolish. We won't win by filing a lawsuit. We'll only further alienate our European allies. The WTO isn't about to order the subsidies stopped.

Are the Airbus subsidies fair to the U.S.? Probably not, but that isn't for me to say. Should our government subsidize Boeing? It's been tried in the past (Boeing SST project, for example) and proven to be too risky an investment. As it stands, Congress has attempted to find ways to eliminate the EAS subsidies that provide scheduled air service to rural communities. It's amazing how Congress continues to subsidize farmers but won't do the same for other industries that have a greater impact on our economy.

The hypocracy of the situation is truly infuriating.
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N754PR
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RE: Bush Admin To File Lawsuit Against Airbus Aid.

Wed Dec 08, 2004 8:49 am

Very good reply.

Thats a point, if the USA is so unhappy that Europe can help Airbus why does Bush not spend some money on Boeing?

Oh yeah... he has none left after using it all in the middle East..
Bush, your a sad, sad man.
 
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eta unknown
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RE: Bush Admin To File Lawsuit Against Airbus Aid.

Wed Dec 08, 2004 8:53 am

On a similar topic, I've heard a rumor the EU is going to make life difficult for Emirates in 2006 and possibnly revoke some of their landing rights- unfair competition as EK doesn't pay for fuel in DXB.

As for USA and tje EU- this is a pandora's box- the USA subsidizes so many other industries as Azjetgeek says above- it's hypocritical.
 
kl911
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RE: Bush Admin To File Lawsuit Against Airbus Aid.

Wed Dec 08, 2004 8:57 am

Airbus aid?????? Since when does Airbus gets more aid then Boeing? Boeing : Tanker deal etc...defence ..space ..

The only thing Airbus gets is loans which it always pays back on time. problem with that?

KL911
 
dan2002
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RE: Bush Admin To File Lawsuit Against Airbus Aid.

Wed Dec 08, 2004 8:59 am

KL911, then explain to me how Airbus, is launching the A380, and the A350 all in a relatively short period of time, dont answer it, ill tell you, launch aid.


-Dan
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Aither
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RE: Bush Admin To File Lawsuit Against Airbus Aid.

Wed Dec 08, 2004 9:01 am

Why are they in a hurry ?
Never trust the obvious
 
kl911
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RE: Bush Admin To File Lawsuit Against Airbus Aid.

Wed Dec 08, 2004 9:02 am

Dan, it's money investors puts into it, since it's a private company. They also have a huge cash reserve of many billions of euros. And if that isn't enough they can always go get a loan....

KL911
 
dan2002
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RE: Bush Admin To File Lawsuit Against Airbus Aid.

Wed Dec 08, 2004 9:10 am

Well, I know that for the A380 government aid was given, in the billions, and almost the same for the A350." Europe has provided some $15 billion in launch aid to Airbus over the years, which would amount to a $35 billion debt on the company's books today if it had borrowed that money commercially, as Boeing does. Such aid shields Airbus from risk, allowing it to price its airplanes more aggressively and putting Boeing at a big competitive disadvantage." -HeraldNet

-Dan
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StarGoldLHR
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RE: Bush Admin To File Lawsuit Against Airbus Aid.

Wed Dec 08, 2004 9:11 am

Here we go.

Next we will be told the A380 is banned from US airspace for carrying too many passengers  Smile/happy/getting dizzy
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CO737800
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RE: Bush Admin To File Lawsuit Against Airbus Aid.

Wed Dec 08, 2004 9:16 am

EU dont worry just dont listen to the WTO just like USA is doing to Canada on softwood.
 
vfw614
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RE: Bush Admin To File Lawsuit Against Airbus Aid.

Wed Dec 08, 2004 9:22 am

What are they going to sue ? The provisions of the treaty the US signed ten years ago regarding subsidies ? Airbus certainly is not in violation of the rules of this treaty. Obviously Dubiya is wetting his pants that he might be forced to order a couple of hundred A330 tankers for the USAF and is now looking for a lame excuse.... Wink/being sarcastic
 
YVR99
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RE: Bush Admin To File Lawsuit Against Airbus Aid.

Wed Dec 08, 2004 9:22 am

My two cents,

I just think it is awfully ironic and hypocritical that the Bush administration should seek recourse to the WTO when they simply ignore the rulings of the WTO with regard to levies they have imposed on softwood lumber from Canada and other imports (EU steel, etc) which have been ruled illegal. These function as subsidies to US producers, along with the many other industries that are directly subsidised as mentioned above. Clearly the Bush administration thinks there is one set of rules for them and one set of rules for everybody else....
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BIGBlack
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RE: Bush Admin To File Lawsuit Against Airbus Aid.

Wed Dec 08, 2004 9:26 am

Arguing, ignorance, anti American sentiment. It is coming indeed.
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CO737800
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RE: Bush Admin To File Lawsuit Against Airbus Aid.

Wed Dec 08, 2004 9:26 am

YVR99, you hit it right on the button
 
pilotaydin
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RE: Bush Admin To File Lawsuit Against Airbus Aid.

Wed Dec 08, 2004 9:29 am

i am not much versed in economics and WTO issues, but it seems that Boeing and Bush are threatened of becoing #2 in the world of aviation injstead on #1..... because if they were guranteed and satisfied of being #1....why would they try and get Airbus singled out....

didn't the US gov award Boeing the 707 contract as a pretty uch gurantee when boeing first rolled out...how is this not subsidizing, with different techniques?
The only time there is too much fuel onboard, is when you're on fire!
 
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N328KF
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RE: Bush Admin To File Lawsuit Against Airbus Aid.

Wed Dec 08, 2004 9:33 am

Heh, you can't tell me that the non-Airbus (eurocopter/Astrium/etc...) business at EADS is not in exactly the same vein as the IDS division at Boeing. It's the same sort of "subsidy" (sneer quotes intentional.)
When they call the roll in the Senate, the Senators do not know whether to answer 'Present' or 'Not guilty.' -Theodore Roosevelt
 
roseflyer
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RE: Bush Admin To File Lawsuit Against Airbus Aid.

Wed Dec 08, 2004 9:46 am

Taken from an economic point of view, this is a logical step by governments in the EU Monetary Union. Since the creation of the monetary union, countries have lost their central banks and currency controls. This causes them to lose partial control of the specific economies. The EU as a whole is a strong economy, but Airbus is directly related with certain members of it that may be affected in different ways. It makes sense for specific countries to inject cash into corporations since that is one of the only things that specific country's economy. If Germany is experiencing asymmetric shock and going into a recession, then one of the best ways for Germany to pull out of it is to increase government spending, lower taxes, or inject cash directly into the economy with low or no interest loans to spur economic development. The EU Monetary Union doesn't do much for Germany in this case, because it is country specific, and monetary policy only works for the whole union.

You cannot use ideas that work in the United States, and just insert them to other parts of the world. The WTO does have a say as to what countries can do, and the EU as a whole has similar regulations. Subsidizing industries is an economic tool, and not just a popularity contest of who can build the most planes. The government of France probably does not care what the fuel burn rate of a A340-600 is compared to a 777-300ER, but rather they care that about it because it has a huge role in the economy.

The US government does certain things to help companies in the US as well. Chapter 11 bankruptcy protection is a huge example of something that the US does to help its own corporations. Also tax breaks are huge. For example any new company that will employ more then 25 people in Central Oregon is eligible to get a write off on all state taxes for 5 years. Boeing experienced some huge tax breaks from the state of Washington as well in a move to keep the economy strong. All of these are subsidizing industry in some way or another. The United States government does not want Boeing to become not competitive since it has been the number one exporter from the United States based on sales in the past. Many people see the word "subsidize" and immediately have bad connotations in their heads, but in reality it is something that all countries need to do in a way to provide strong and healthy economies.

This constant banter against one another is not a good thing at all unless it is founded on solid information and a good knowledge of the overall situation. I admit I don't know everything about this, but lets have people bring up sensible arguments rather then one line provocative statements that don't mean anything at all.
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bjg231
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RE: Bush Admin To File Lawsuit Against Airbus Aid.

Wed Dec 08, 2004 9:48 am

"didn't the US gov award Boeing the 707 contract as a pretty uch gurantee when boeing first rolled out...how is this not subsidizing, with different techniques?"


This point is ridiculous. I honestly don't know why it's brought up time and time again. Just because a government chooses to buy its own products doesn't mean that it's subsidizing the industry.

According to dictionary.com, a subsidy is, "A grant from the government, from a municipal corporation, or the like, to a private person or company to assist the establishment or support of an enterprise deemed advantageous to the public; a subvention; as, a subsidy to the owners of a line of ocean steamships."

It's a grant!

To help you guys understand, I'll give you an example. Let's say that I want to buy a stereo that costs a 100 bucks. However, I only have $66.66. That's ok, because I can ask my friends the taxpayers to give me the other 1/3 as long as I promise to pay it back. That is a subsidy.

Here's an opposing example of government aid. Let's say that I want to buy the same stereo and once again, I only have $66.66. How do I get the other 1/3? I sell something of mine to the government for the other 1/3. This is a government aiding a business without directly subsidizing anything.

Now I'm not arguing that Boeing is completely free of subsidies. The state of Washington bestows tax breaks, infrastructure, etc. But to argue that the government buying Boeing products is a subsidization of the company is ludicrous.
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ozglobal
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RE: Bush Admin To File Lawsuit Against Airbus Aid.

Wed Dec 08, 2004 9:56 am

BIGBlack "Arguing, ignorance, anti American sentiment. It is coming indeed."

Well, Dubya may be ignorant, but "anti-American" is harsh.

As for the last bit, I'm going to leave that alone.

Ozglobal
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Areopagus
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RE: Bush Admin To File Lawsuit Against Airbus Aid.

Wed Dec 08, 2004 9:59 am

Well, if the end result is the elimination of subsidies to both Boeing and Airbus, let's go for it, even if both sides are embarrassed!

But, I think, there will be intractable sticking points on indirect aid. If jurisdiction X has higher taxes or other drags on business than jurisdiction Y, then company Q in X is disadvantaged relative to company R in Y. Now, if X by special dispensation reduces the burdens on Q to the level R enjoys in Y, then that is a subsidy, is it not? Yes, says company P in X. Yes! says company R. No way, says company Q, it's just evening the playing field.

The tax laws, labor laws, and probably a whole bunch of other stuff differ between the US and EU. This argument will go on for a long time.
 
atmx2000
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RE: Bush Admin To File Lawsuit Against Airbus Aid.

Wed Dec 08, 2004 10:10 am

didn't the US gov award Boeing the 707 contract as a pretty uch gurantee when boeing first rolled out...how is this not subsidizing, with different techniques?

Yeah, and the US got a product that it needed for defense of itself and its allies. That included Europe. Europe benefited from US defense spending because it allowed them to spend on less on defense and more on their welfare states and rebuilding their economies. Not to mention it saved them from having to worry about defending against a rearming Germany.

It's amazing how Congress continues to subsidize farmers but won't do the same for other industries that have a greater impact on our economy.

Well this partly Boeing's fault. It didn't spread its manufacturing across the country to increase its lobbying power. Regardless, most industrialized countries subsidize their agriculture industry for food security reasons. Its harder to justify the commercial plane sector for security reasons, especially as defense and commercial aviation requirements diverge.

Maybe the US goverment should give loans to Boeing. I find it abhorrent that the US would fund the direct development of a commercial product by a specific company that the government will have no current use for. Precompetitive and fundamental research is fine by book, as well as technologies applicable to defense. I'll tell you this though, if the US government gives loans to Boeing on the same terms as Airbus, then we are going to see overinvestment in the commercial aviation sector as the both Airbus and Boeing will feel the need to continuously one up each others government funded aircraft programs whenever they see their marketshare is being encroached upon. No program will ever be commercially successful enough to payoff its loans and fund the development of the next program.
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BIGBlack
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RE: Bush Admin To File Lawsuit Against Airbus Aid.

Wed Dec 08, 2004 10:16 am

BIGBlack "Arguing, ignorance, anti American sentiment. It is coming indeed."

Well, Dubya may be ignorant, but "anti-American" is harsh.

As for the last bit, I'm going to leave that alone.

Ozglobal


Sorry to be so negative. I am going by what I have seen lately. It actually saddens me. As far as the US is concerned, not everyone supports our leader and everything he does.

http://www.sorryeveryone.com

HA!

I believe this administration is not doing much at all for US aviation or the economy in general.
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N328KF
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RE: Bush Admin To File Lawsuit Against Airbus Aid.

Wed Dec 08, 2004 10:22 am

AirbusDriver:

Why are you blaming Bush for things that are the fault of your union and management?
When they call the roll in the Senate, the Senators do not know whether to answer 'Present' or 'Not guilty.' -Theodore Roosevelt
 
atmx2000
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RE: Bush Admin To File Lawsuit Against Airbus Aid.

Wed Dec 08, 2004 10:26 am

I believe this administration is not doing much at all for US aviation or the economy in general.

On the contrary, this administration is undoing the damage the previous administration did when they allowed the dollar to become extremely overvalued, which destroyed the competitiveness of US manufacturers and their employees. The US's share of the world wide manufacturing output drops whenever the dollar strengthens, and that's what happened when the dollar started appreciating as a result of the Clinton administrations handling of the Asian finanicial crisis in 1997-1998.
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AirbusDriver
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RE: Bush Admin To File Lawsuit Against Airbus Aid.

Wed Dec 08, 2004 10:29 am

Our fault that bush prefer supporting Iraq Airways instead of US-Airways???
What are you smoking???
Since I pay taxes I have the right not to be happy as far as where the money is spend, I think the money would be better spend here at home...
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N328KF
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RE: Bush Admin To File Lawsuit Against Airbus Aid.

Wed Dec 08, 2004 10:31 am

AirbusDriver

There should be zero support for a misshapen airline. Let it collapse under its own weight and eliminate deadwood from the industry—particularly when there is severe overcapacity. You can't expect the government to prop up a company every time the management and unions screw it over. What do you think this is, Europe?

[Edited 2004-12-08 02:34:15]
When they call the roll in the Senate, the Senators do not know whether to answer 'Present' or 'Not guilty.' -Theodore Roosevelt
 
mtnmanmakalu
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RE: Bush Admin To File Lawsuit Against Airbus Aid.

Wed Dec 08, 2004 10:33 am

Well, there is no problem with the dollar being overvalued NOW is there??~!!!

Quit blaming EVERY administration- Start blaming some of this sh*#@y Airline management... Good management= more $ to buy more US Boeing A/C.....

There is no doubt that Boeing makes a good product- I'm sure everybody will agree...
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mtnmanmakalu
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RE: Bush Admin To File Lawsuit Against Airbus Aid.

Wed Dec 08, 2004 10:35 am

I got a better idea. Why didn't your company show a bit of loyalty to American aircraft manufacturers? Maybe then I'd think you deserve a little bit of my tax money. It's a bit disgraceful that an airline named USAir is pretty much going to be flying a fleet of Canadian, Brazilian and European jets.

I 100% totally agree with you!!!!

 Big thumbs up
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N328KF
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RE: Bush Admin To File Lawsuit Against Airbus Aid.

Wed Dec 08, 2004 10:37 am

Well, I am not taking issue with US buying Airbuses, EMBRAERs, or Bombardiers. My issue is that this guy here is blaming Bush for not saving his debt-ridden, mismanaged company. He obviously has some misplaced angst issues.
When they call the roll in the Senate, the Senators do not know whether to answer 'Present' or 'Not guilty.' -Theodore Roosevelt
 
bjg231
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RE: Bush Admin To File Lawsuit Against Airbus Aid.

Wed Dec 08, 2004 10:38 am

"Our fault that bush prefer supporting Iraq Airways instead of US-Airways???"

No, he's saying that it's your management's fault for driving the airline into bankruptcy. He didn't give an opinion on Bush's allocation of resources. And as I recall correctly, the Bush administration gave millions to US (just like every other major) to bail them out after 9/11.

I'd be willing to bet that the amount of money the government is putting into Iraqi Airways for an entire year would probably keep US flying (with current losses) for what, an extra week?
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AirbusDriver
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RE: Bush Admin To File Lawsuit Against Airbus Aid.

Wed Dec 08, 2004 10:43 am

Yeah the price of oil is the fault of US-Airways management!!!
Did you know that Mrs Rice ( New secretary of state) has an oil tanker named after her??? No conflict of interest there!!!
And the war with Iraq did not push the oil price up either???
What rock have you been living under???
 
atmx2000
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RE: Bush Admin To File Lawsuit Against Airbus Aid.

Wed Dec 08, 2004 10:44 am

Well, I am not taking issue with US buying Airbuses, EMBRAERs, or Bombardiers. My issue is that this guy here is blaming Bush for not saving his debt-ridden, mismanaged company. He obviously has some misplaced angst issues.

I'm not being particularly serious about that issue either. But his bitter whining and cursing is irritating me. And his complaints about where his tax dollars is going seem a bit lame, while his company is weakening the tax base of the US by buying so many foreign jets.
ConcordeBoy is a twin supremacist!! He supports quadicide!!
 
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N328KF
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RE: Bush Admin To File Lawsuit Against Airbus Aid.

Wed Dec 08, 2004 10:45 am

Big231:

Precisely. There are simply not enough passengers to allow airlines to be profitable currently at current utilization levels. So let the market dictate who survives. With fewer carriers comes greater utilization, and hopefully profitability. Or at least lower losses than we have now.

Also, I'm going to preempt him by guessing that he will blame the fuel situation. Which isn't an issue for WN and other carriers that hedge properly.

[Edited 2004-12-08 02:48:52]
When they call the roll in the Senate, the Senators do not know whether to answer 'Present' or 'Not guilty.' -Theodore Roosevelt
 
mtnmanmakalu
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RE: Bush Admin To File Lawsuit Against Airbus Aid.

Wed Dec 08, 2004 10:47 am

I'm not being particularly serious about that issue either. But his bitter whining and cursing is irritating me. And his complaints about where his tax dollars is going seem a bit lame, while his company is weakening the tax base of the US by buying so many foreign jets.

A-Frickin' men!!!!!!!
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N328KF
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RE: Bush Admin To File Lawsuit Against Airbus Aid.

Wed Dec 08, 2004 10:50 am

Too late. I didn't get the fuel prices comment in, in time. Like I said, see: WN.

Also, the oil tanker bit is a falsehood. Stop drinking the kool-aid.

[Edited 2004-12-08 02:51:39]
When they call the roll in the Senate, the Senators do not know whether to answer 'Present' or 'Not guilty.' -Theodore Roosevelt
 
AirbusDriver
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RE: Bush Admin To File Lawsuit Against Airbus Aid.

Wed Dec 08, 2004 10:51 am

FYI the A319-A320-A321-A330 are cheaper to buy and operate than the 737-757-767 and better too...
Also the 737 got CFM engine, half French...
 
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STT757
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RE: Bush Admin To File Lawsuit Against Airbus Aid.

Wed Dec 08, 2004 10:52 am

"We won't win by filing a lawsuit. We'll only further alienate our European allies"

Has not stopped the EU from filing lawsuits against the US, my favorite was when they announced they would ban or put large levies on imports of citrus products from the State of Florida in hopes of hurting Bush politicaly in the battleground State.

The EU has been playing the WTO to score their own Political points, it's time to take a stand and let the WTO decide once and for all.
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AirbusDriver
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RE: Bush Admin To File Lawsuit Against Airbus Aid.

Wed Dec 08, 2004 10:52 am

No the oil tanker is real...
 
atmx2000
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RE: Bush Admin To File Lawsuit Against Airbus Aid.

Wed Dec 08, 2004 10:54 am

And the war with Iraq did not push the oil price up either???

Sure, it has. But so has Venezuelan and Nigeria political unstability, Putin's strong arming the Russian oil companies, increased Chinese oil consumption, and probably market manipulations aimed at altering the outcome of the election.
ConcordeBoy is a twin supremacist!! He supports quadicide!!
 
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N328KF
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RE: Bush Admin To File Lawsuit Against Airbus Aid.

Wed Dec 08, 2004 10:54 am

AirbusDriver:

Cheaper to buy, perhaps. Being cheaper to operate is up for debate. And the "better" part is completely subjective.

Let it be known that I didn't bring up the French bit. You did. I just think it's hilarious that you have such strong loyalty to a company whose management has done more to hurt you than George W. Bush ever did.
When they call the roll in the Senate, the Senators do not know whether to answer 'Present' or 'Not guilty.' -Theodore Roosevelt
 
bjg231
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RE: Bush Admin To File Lawsuit Against Airbus Aid.

Wed Dec 08, 2004 10:54 am

"Yeah the price of oil is the fault of US-Airways management!!!
Did you know that Mrs Rice ( New secretary of state) has an oil tanker named after her??? No conflict of interest there!!!
And the war with Iraq did not push the oil price up either???
What rock have you been living under???"


So I take it that by this statement you believe that US was in good shape before the war in Iraq.

Quick question: What rock have YOU been living under?
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mtnmanmakalu
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RE: Bush Admin To File Lawsuit Against Airbus Aid.

Wed Dec 08, 2004 10:55 am

FYI the A319-A320-A321-A330 are cheaper to buy and operate than the 737-757-767 and better too...

Thats ONLY your opinion that they are better..... Like flying them but compared to a Boeing the same age, they are rattletraps.....

I do, I don't, whatever.......
 
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N328KF
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RE: Bush Admin To File Lawsuit Against Airbus Aid.

Wed Dec 08, 2004 10:57 am

AirbusDriver:

No the oil tanker is real...

No, it never occurred. Chevron planned to when she served on the board of directors. She resigned, and they cancelled the christening.
When they call the roll in the Senate, the Senators do not know whether to answer 'Present' or 'Not guilty.' -Theodore Roosevelt
 
atmx2000
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RE: Bush Admin To File Lawsuit Against Airbus Aid.

Wed Dec 08, 2004 11:02 am

The name was real. Ms. Rice was on the board of Chevron during the 90s, and they named a ship after her. However, a name does not denote a conflict of interest.
ConcordeBoy is a twin supremacist!! He supports quadicide!!
 
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N328KF
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RE: Bush Admin To File Lawsuit Against Airbus Aid.

Wed Dec 08, 2004 11:03 am

Bjg231:

US Air was never truly in good shape. Call it the product of a stillborn merger.
When they call the roll in the Senate, the Senators do not know whether to answer 'Present' or 'Not guilty.' -Theodore Roosevelt
 
trex8
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RE: Bush Admin To File Lawsuit Against Airbus Aid.

Wed Dec 08, 2004 11:08 am

>my favorite was when they announced they would ban or put large levies on imports of citrus products from the State of Florida in hopes of hurting Bush politicaly in the battleground State.

That levy was the EUs response after the WTO said the US had broken WTO rules and allowed the EU and the rest of the world to levy duties on US products. I forget if it was the steel tariffs Bush had put in place to, even Carl Rove admits, buy votes in the rust belt, or it was related to the corporate (read Boeing biggest benefactor) tax credits ruled illegal by the WTO which Congress took years to take off the IRS tax rules. Since Dubya has no problem playing political ball with import tariffs especially the steel ones, the EU decided to make their tariffs political too to get some real media attention.

The only people who will get hurt by any transatlantic trade war in aviation are all those working at GE, Honeywell, Goodrich, Pratt etc etc and a whole host of other US suppliers. And their losses will make any gains by Boeing look like a pittance. This will be a rehash of the steel tariffs where to help a specific part of the steel industry, even more people ended up getting hurt in US manufacturing. And its not even like Boeing gives a hoot about increasing US content in their future products! Look at the 7E7, 35% Japanese, 12% Italian, if Rolls gets the engines you are over 50 % easily and there are myriads other Euro and Asian suppliers still to be counted in that equation! Boeing wants to increase its market share and have more parts come from China and Korea etc so shareholders are happy. But they don't care a hoot about whether its good for the US economy per se. For that matter given they lost billions increasing production and attempting to retain market share only a few years ago they are pretty pathetic at even giving their shareholders value even when they do sell more product!

[Edited 2004-12-08 03:19:48]
 
atmx2000
Posts: 4301
Joined: Wed Oct 13, 2004 4:24 pm

RE: Bush Admin To File Lawsuit Against Airbus Aid.

Wed Dec 08, 2004 11:24 am

I forget if it was the steel tariffs Bush had put in place to, even Carl Rove admits, buy votes in the rust belt, or it was related to the corporate (read Boeing biggest benefactor) tax credits ruled illegal by the WTO which Congress took years to take off the IRS tax rules.

It was in response to the steel tariffs. It was of course political but was not simply a matter of election votes, but also got votes in congress to approve fast track trade negotiating authority, which would require Congress to vote yes or no on trade agreements negotiated by the administration rather than tack on amendments that might scuttle agreements.

Regarding the foreign tax credits, I don't think they should be illegal. They were intended on making the US tax code more territorial like many of our competitors tax codes.
ConcordeBoy is a twin supremacist!! He supports quadicide!!
 
stealthpilot
Posts: 502
Joined: Tue May 11, 2004 4:28 am

RE: Bush Admin To File Lawsuit Against Airbus Aid.

Wed Dec 08, 2004 1:44 pm

sorry..... this was mentioned earlier
"......as EK doesn't pay for fuel in DXB."
is that true????
-nikhil
eP007
 
miamix707
Posts: 3848
Joined: Tue Oct 21, 2003 2:22 pm

RE: Bush Admin To File Lawsuit Against Airbus Aid.

Wed Dec 08, 2004 3:28 pm

FYI the A319-A320-A321-A330 are cheaper to buy and operate than the 737-757-767 and better too...

Cheaper yes. Cheaper to operate?, I've always heard that the the 737NG series are more fuel efficient than those Airbii listed above. Better? Well.. think about it, are there any substantial number of 30+year old Airbus airframes in service today? Probably none. Chances are the same will hold true when the A320, and A330 series get to be that old, if they aren't cut up much earlier.

Back on topic, Boeing took a gamble with the 747, had that program not been the success it was, they woudl've gone bankrupt. Say the A380 and the upcoming A350 were commercial failures, Airbus will still likely keep on producing airplanes.

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