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AirIndia
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Long Haul Flights For Jet 9W

Wed Dec 08, 2004 11:42 pm

An article in the Economic Times, P7, tells in brief the plans of granting long haul flight permission to Jet. Although the final green signal is pending, in the event it does happen, what routes would it get. 9W is not the designated national carrier, would that hamper their plans and if finally things fall in place, what a/c would 9W acquire for diferent routes. Will we get to see India's first wide bodied a/c in private colours?

best,
Guru
 
mrniji
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RE: Long Haul Flights For Jet 9W

Thu Dec 09, 2004 12:41 am

Basically, it is considered to allocate routes to the privates which are not 'properly covered' by the state-owned, i.e. where the latter can't use the bilaterals fully (which is basically every city at the moment  Sad ). The Gulf is to be exclusive for AI/IC... 9W apparently would love to go for LON... but I would bot be surprised if first permission for secondary markets, like Rome, Geneva, or even Manchester would be granted.. expect SIN, KUL first, then more distant locations.. it can be a matter of days or years, so much about the consistency about mechanisms of the GOI  Big grin
"The earth provides enough resources for everyone's need, but not for some people's greed." (Gandhi)
 
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HAWK21M
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RE: Long Haul Flights For Jet 9W

Fri Dec 10, 2004 4:03 am

First AI & IA will be given opportunities to expand their Fleet,Followed by permission to private carriers to operate SAARC countries [Done],then SE Asia,Then Middle East,Then Europe.......
So now the question is when will AI & IA get their Aircrafts.
regds
MEL
I may not win often, but I damn well never lose!!! ;)
 
behramjee
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RE: Long Haul Flights For Jet 9W

Fri Dec 10, 2004 10:38 am

LHR will be v tough for 9W and S2 to fly to due to lack of available slots at good times. If they want to fly to London, then Gatwick is their best option for the time being. But then again, nothing is definite as yet concerning them being allowed long haul overseas flying rights!!!
 
kkfla737
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RE: Long Haul Flights For Jet 9W

Fri Dec 10, 2004 12:38 pm

9W may want to seriously consider Manchester or Birmingham if approval is granted. AI has left a huge market void in both places.
 
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AirIndia
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RE: Long Haul Flights For Jet 9W

Fri Dec 10, 2004 3:18 pm

9W may want to seriously consider Manchester or Birmingham

incase it does, what aircraft shd it lease...... 744s..... 777s
 
IndianGuy
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RE: Long Haul Flights For Jet 9W

Fri Dec 10, 2004 3:25 pm

MAN, LHR... what we talking about 9W here?

SIN, HKG, JKT, MLE, CAI- Now that looks more plausible.

Even here, they woudl find i difficult to fly to SIN or HKG from BOM, DEL, MAA or HYD without the loosers at Air India throwing a hissy fit at Rajiv Bhavan as they have done in the past whenever there is talk of IC getting more intl flights.

I personally see 9W going intl from COK, GOI, CCU and BLR direct to the Middle-East, CMB and SIN. Those wingletted 737-800's would do well on these routes.

-Roy
 
behramjee
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RE: Long Haul Flights For Jet 9W

Fri Dec 10, 2004 4:02 pm

9W nor S2 are going to the Gulf Roy !!! U know that so its no point even speculating about it.

As for CAI...no need to fly there for any Indian carrier!!! There isnt money to be made on that route unless you are MS carrying a lot of 6th freedom traffic.

I would really like these 2 airlines to fly nonstop to BHX and MAN...they will do well from there.

 
mrniji
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RE: Long Haul Flights For Jet 9W

Fri Dec 10, 2004 4:35 pm

In terms of a/c, neitgher the 777 nor the 380 would be to expect, rather 777 or 330/40
"The earth provides enough resources for everyone's need, but not for some people's greed." (Gandhi)
 
Santhosh
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RE: Long Haul Flights For Jet 9W

Fri Dec 10, 2004 6:53 pm

S2 operates flights from BLR to CMB like that why don’t 9W try such short distance international routes?Are they not profitable?
Happy Landings :)
 
B747-437B
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RE: Long Haul Flights For Jet 9W

Fri Dec 10, 2004 6:56 pm

why don’t 9W try such short distance international routes

9W flies both MAA-CMB and DEL-KTM.
"The A340-300 may boast a long range, but the A340 is underpowered" -- Robert Milton, CEO - Air Canada
 
Santhosh
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RE: Long Haul Flights For Jet 9W

Fri Dec 10, 2004 7:32 pm

Sean than for the information. Didn't know that before. Well if they can do these short international flights. Why do they need special clearance to do long hauls?
Happy Landings :)
 
IndianGuy
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RE: Long Haul Flights For Jet 9W

Fri Dec 10, 2004 7:46 pm

Behramjee: depends on where the carrier wants to fly from. AI will be throwing a hissy fit only if 9W/IC/S2 file for flights ex-BOM, COK or MAA, which AI regards as its fiefdom.

But there are other stations, which AI wouldnt want to touch with a bargepole, but have the potential to be money-spinnners! GOI, ATQ, LKO, CCU and AMD: all have great potential.

-Roy
 
IndianGuy
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RE: Long Haul Flights For Jet 9W

Fri Dec 10, 2004 8:01 pm


Why do they need special clearance to do long hauls?

The main reason is the Govt Of India which still lives by the rules set by the angrez when they left. Protecting holy cow Air India at any cost is the name of the game.

The second is that Air India doesnt have the balls to face up to competition coming from within. Air India doesnt mind foreign carriers coming in and making all the moolah. It may not even have the aircraft to service all the routes the country is entitled to. But it will still throw a hissy fit every time IC gets a favorable response for opening up a new route, the last time being HKG! It is this kind of protectionism that has turned AI into the sad picture that it is today. AI has possibly the worst inflight product of any intl airline: No IFE, creaky aircraft and cabin crew more interested in pilfering items from aircraft than serving pax. It has no incentive to invest in improving: why should it when it has a protected market and even can lease out bilateral rights, which should be the property of the GoI.

The only solution is to liberalise the international air-travel scene and throw it open to competition from Indian carriers including IC. I mean look at the IC example: a decade back when 9W arrived, IC was in such a sorry state. Its share of the domestic actually dipped to below 40% at one stage! But now IC has won back a lot of its pax, and the last survey by 'Business India' rated IC as the first choice for over 60% of corporate travellers! Could you believe 9W managed only half that figure? Among corporates?

Anybody still thinks that protectionism is a good idea? Air India is one of the last remaining symbols of the old socialist India and everything that was wrong with that idea. Its time we moved with the times. IF AI cannot keep up with the change, then shut down the f***ing airline and let 9W/S2 and IC take over. They will do a much better job.

End of rant.

-Roy
 
B747-437B
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RE: Long Haul Flights For Jet 9W

Fri Dec 10, 2004 8:04 pm

I think AI is far more protective of AMD than it is of MAA. After all, you see multiple daily 744s operating direct and even nonstop from AMD to Europe/NA while MAA is stuck with A310s and wetlease A320s on hub-and-spoke for any westbound flying.

I think the Gulf and SE Asia markets need to be opened up to all comers sometime in mid-2005 and the longhaul markets in early-2006. That would be a realistic timeframe to allow both AI/IC and the private carriers a level playing field for expansion. Rush it too quickly and AI/IC won't be able to compete and delay too much longer and the private carriers will be disadvantaged.
"The A340-300 may boast a long range, but the A340 is underpowered" -- Robert Milton, CEO - Air Canada
 
DIJKKIJK
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RE: Long Haul Flights For Jet 9W

Fri Dec 10, 2004 11:32 pm

while MAA is stuck with A310s and wetlease A320s on hub-and-spoke for any westbound flying.

with LH operating 744 7X and BA about to start 744 6X , I should think MAA gets a fair share of 744s.
Never argue with idiots. They will bring you down to their level, and beat you with experience.
 
B747-437B
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RE: Long Haul Flights For Jet 9W

Fri Dec 10, 2004 11:35 pm

with LH operating 744 7X and BA about to start 744 6X , I should think MAA gets a fair share of 744s

We were discussing Air India's treatment of the MAA market, so I'm not sure how that is relevent?
"The A340-300 may boast a long range, but the A340 is underpowered" -- Robert Milton, CEO - Air Canada
 
smeagol
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RE: Long Haul Flights For Jet 9W

Fri Dec 10, 2004 11:56 pm

9W is flying to Shanghai now, right? They used to fly to Beijing in 2002 as I remeber...
When you look at a pig, no matter from what angle you look at it, it is a pig...
 
sshank
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RE: Long Haul Flights For Jet 9W

Sat Dec 11, 2004 12:52 am

I think AI is far more protective of AMD than it is of MAA

Yes, and MAA will be better of for it when the private carriers are allowed to sprout wings and fly. Folks in MAA will have some real choice between the likes of 9W and the foreign carriers. No one there really expects much from Air Bombay (sorry, Air India!) - which is treated as a carrier of last resort anyway, when all other options are sold out.

That said, I am not holding my breath for the private carriers to be "unleashed".
 
stealthpilot
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RE: Long Haul Flights For Jet 9W

Sat Dec 11, 2004 12:53 am

The only countries 9W fly too are Sri Lanka and Nepal....... and they are going to start services to Bangladesh.
I agree that IC has picked up its socks, but again that is not the whole story. Alot of people would fly IC because of the rewards program = FF miles = international flights. When the privat carriers get the int. routes im sure that 60% figure would drop.
eP007
 
mrniji
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RE: Long Haul Flights For Jet 9W

Sat Dec 11, 2004 1:09 am

Smeagol:

9W is flying to Shanghai now, right? They used to fly to Beijing in 2002 as I remeber...

Nops, AI does fly to Shanghai, and no Indian Airline has ever served Beijing, afaik China Eastern has flighst India China from PEK.

Indian private careers are not permitted to fly abroad yet, with exceptions of CMB [Colombo - since you are know, hold your mose over three letter codes, you will see teh name in most cases], KTM, other SAARC and maybe ASEAN countries to follow..

brief, hope that helps... and.. welcome to a.net!  Big grin
"The earth provides enough resources for everyone's need, but not for some people's greed." (Gandhi)
 
karan69
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RE: Long Haul Flights For Jet 9W

Sat Dec 11, 2004 3:54 am

It would either be the 777/767 or the A330 which both would be looking for
 
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HAWK21M
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RE: Long Haul Flights For Jet 9W

Sat Dec 11, 2004 8:48 pm

9W ---- SAARC countries Next.......then we move onn  Big thumbs up
regds
MEL
I may not win often, but I damn well never lose!!! ;)
 
stealthpilot
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RE: Long Haul Flights For Jet 9W

Sun Dec 12, 2004 3:41 am

Mel im with you man........ SAARC is just the first step!!!! Open it up dammit!!!  Smile
I personally feel 9W will stick to Boeing and the 777. (And im sure im not the only one who’s infatuated with the 772LR........... fingers crossed)
-Nikhil
eP007
 
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HAWK21M
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RE: Long Haul Flights For Jet 9W

Fri Dec 17, 2004 8:40 pm

I heard permission for 9W & S2 to Sningapore,Malaysia have come in too.
regds
MEL
I may not win often, but I damn well never lose!!! ;)
 
karan69
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RE: Long Haul Flights For Jet 9W

Fri Dec 17, 2004 9:58 pm

According to their Company brouchers they are "apparently" starting Bangkok services end march beginning april
 
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HAWK21M
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RE: Long Haul Flights For Jet 9W

Sat Dec 18, 2004 1:27 am

Ok.Karan......SE Asia......Then Middle East  Big thumbs up
regds
MEL
I may not win often, but I damn well never lose!!! ;)
 
trvyyz
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RE: Long Haul Flights For Jet 9W

Sat Dec 18, 2004 8:22 am

where the latter can't use the bilaterals fully

That means that(theoretically) Jet could fly a non-stop to YYZ.
I don't see AI coming to Canada in the near future and is never their priority.

Personally I would love to see GF, KU, QR or UL coming to YYZ. This provides a single airline connection to various South Indian cities. I hate to go through customs and immigration at BOM or MAA.

Back to the topic, doesn't Jet have some tie-up with KLM. Will this influence/enhance its international routes?