NWA1978
Posts: 66
Joined: Tue Dec 07, 2004 9:15 am

727-200 Refurb?

Thu Dec 09, 2004 9:58 am

Hey,

Long time reader, first time poster! Just a quick question about a 727-200 refurb. I see fedex taking a bunch of old dc-10 and having new avionics installed to convert it to a two man cockpit vs a three man cockpit. I have also read articles on this when they have installed new engines. I can see how this would be much cheaper than a new 150 million dollar plane, so my question is this:

With all the 727-200 sitting in the desert, some have their whole fleet sitting there together, why don't they have the 727's fitted the same? One would have to assume they could do it the same way and install a new glass cockpit to convert it to a two man crew, install modern fuel efficient engines, then ofcourse update the interior. Since I don't buy planes I don't know what a 727-200 is worth, but I would have to assume since 9/11 you could get them pretty cheap. I am just looking for some opinions since I have read articles that talked about a company who wanted to do this and resell the aircraft and boeing pretty much put a stop to it. Any info would be helpful. Thank's
 
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N328KF
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Joined: Tue May 25, 2004 3:50 am

RE: 727-200 Refurb?

Thu Dec 09, 2004 10:06 am

Nwa1978:

Stage III.
When they call the roll in the Senate, the Senators do not know whether to answer 'Present' or 'Not guilty.' -Theodore Roosevelt
 
NWA1978
Posts: 66
Joined: Tue Dec 07, 2004 9:15 am

RE: 727-200 Refurb?

Thu Dec 09, 2004 10:55 am

Stage III? I am a little lost with this. All that comes to mind is hush kits... If I am reading that correctly, new engines would ofcourse be quiet. Well, less noise than now anyways.
 
57AZ
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RE: 727-200 Refurb?

Thu Dec 09, 2004 11:03 am

Basically, the numbers don't add up to support a large scale refurbishment of the 727. To make the 727 competitive in its market niche, you would have to eliminate the FE position as well as contend with Stage III using either hush kits or a new engine. While these changes seem simple enough in print, the time required and expense would be better spent elsewhere. You can either pour the money into an old airframe and have an old airframe with new appendages or buy the newer generation aircraft for a bit more and have a better, more reliable airplane.
"When a man runs on railroads over half of his lifetime he is fit for nothing else-and at times he don't know that."
 
nightflyer
Posts: 86
Joined: Mon Sep 24, 2001 9:23 am

RE: 727-200 Refurb?

Thu Dec 09, 2004 2:40 pm

The MD10's still have the same engines as the DC10's. The only major change is the cockpit.

NightFlyer
 
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HAWK21M
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RE: 727-200 Refurb?

Thu Dec 09, 2004 3:07 pm

Hushkitting leads to less noise but more Weight. Smile
regds
MEL
I may not win often, but I damn well never lose!!! ;)
 
wjcandee
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RE: 727-200 Refurb?

Thu Dec 09, 2004 3:12 pm

How does UPS like its 727s? It has virtually all re-engined with TAY engines.

--Bill
 
MxCtrlr
Posts: 2312
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RE: 727-200 Refurb?

Thu Dec 09, 2004 7:35 pm

The other problem with adding a glass cockpit and new engines is they are being put on an old airframe that still has all of the additional maintenance checks and inspections associated with an aging airframe. Not a very cost-effective use of funds.

MxCtrlr  Smile/happy/getting dizzy
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Lufthansa
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RE: 727-200 Refurb?

Thu Dec 09, 2004 7:47 pm

I dont think the problem is that it can't be done with 727s, i think the problem is just how cheap one can pick up 737-300s, which already have stage 3 engines, a two crew cockpit and in the overwhelming majority of cases EFIS.

So, basically I think thats ur problem. An interesting option may be a MD-80 frieghter kit?

 
Spacepope
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RE: 727-200 Refurb?

Thu Dec 09, 2004 11:05 pm

Actually quite a few of the 727-200s for FedEx ARE re-engined. The last ones off the line were all modified with JT8D-217 engines on the outboard (#1 and 3) pylons, while having the plain old JT8D-17 in the center hole.

UPS reengined all of their 727-100s. I don't think the TAY has enough thrust to make it a viable reengining choice for the -200. Perhaps as teh center engine, however the maintainence and spares costs would be prohibitive. Much easier to just convert a 734.
The last of the famous international playboys
 
CaptOveur
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RE: 727-200 Refurb?

Thu Dec 09, 2004 11:19 pm

"So, basically I think thats ur problem. An interesting option may be a MD-80 frieghter kit?"

I think there is an issue with the MD-80 not being wide enough to be a frieghter but the Boeing products are wide enough. Remember an MD-80 is typically 2-3 seating and a Boeing is usually 3-3.
Things were better when it was two guys in a dorm room.
 
NWA1978
Posts: 66
Joined: Tue Dec 07, 2004 9:15 am

RE: 727-200 Refurb?

Thu Dec 09, 2004 11:52 pm

I guess I was just looking at the cost of a new plane such as a 737 vs what it would cost to refit the 727-200 with todays technology and efficient engines. Even with the gas guzzlers it has now, you would have to buy a lot of fuel to equal the cost of a new plane. I just see smaller airlines operating these aircraft and making a profit doing so, so I was just curious with the amount of used airframes sitting in the desert, it might be a viable option. Thats whats great about this site, lots of opinions!!
 
studentflyer
Posts: 667
Joined: Sat Sep 25, 2004 9:02 am

RE: 727-200 Refurb?

Fri Dec 10, 2004 1:50 am

Hi Nwa1978, welcome to A.net

Well, in regards to the 722s, they are still quite widely used in Asia and Africa, as fuel are quite cheap. Take for example, Indonesia, where I come from. There are quite a number of 727s operating as-is. They are quite cheap to obtain and maintain, therefore there's no need to refurbish them to a higher standard. Fuel price isn't really a problem here, as the government subsidises to push the prices down. Noise aren't a problem as yet as they are in Europe and America, so they don't usually have hush-kits fitted. As LCC markets grow, there may be a new airline being born at this moment, and they have the option to take old 727s or MD-80s from the desert, so they will simply be used to their last legs without spending unnecessary upgrade costs, yet earning a good revenue

Regards,
AK

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