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ERJ170
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American Ends 6 Routes

Fri Dec 10, 2004 11:50 pm

Don't think I have seen this on A.net... if so, please disregard...

American Eagle is ending San Jose to San Luis Obispo service on January 9th 2005. On the same date the airline will suspend its St Louis to San Juan service indefinitley and on the same date American will end service from Boston to San Jose CA, Boston to Seattle and Ft Lauderdale to Caracas and Santo Domingo.

Why are they ending STL-SJU?
Aiming High and going far..
 
prosa
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RE: American Ends 6 Routes

Sat Dec 11, 2004 12:01 am

Why are they ending STL-SJU?

IINM, the route was inherited from TWA and no longer fits into AA's plans.
"Let me think about it" = the coward's way of saying "no"
 
ckfred
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RE: American Ends 6 Routes

Sat Dec 11, 2004 12:17 am

Dropping the routes out of FLL makes sense, because of competition from B6. The same holds true for the routes out of BOS, although I could see BOS-SEA return as a summer-only flight to feed cruise ships to Alaska. AA does fly ORD-YVR from mid-June to the end of September.

I don't get dropping the STL-SJU route, especially in January. No one else competes on that route, unless there is a lot of traffic on WN from STL to Florida, and then connecting to SJU on other carriers.

But you would think that AA would at least fly that route until March or April.

 
luisde8cd
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RE: American Ends 6 Routes

Sat Dec 11, 2004 12:44 am

Dropping the routes out of FLL makes sense, because of competition from B6.

When did B6 start flying to CCS and SDQ ?  Nuts
 
iowaman
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RE: American Ends 6 Routes

Sat Dec 11, 2004 12:49 am

When did B6 start flying to CCS and SDQ ?

He's means only BOS-FLL.
 
ssides
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RE: American Ends 6 Routes

Sat Dec 11, 2004 1:46 am

Still wondering when AAEagle is going to drop DFW-GGG. That would allow them to get rid of a couple of Saabs, and save the hassle of low-profit route.
"Lose" is not spelled with two o's!!!!
 
ejmmsu
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RE: American Ends 6 Routes

Sat Dec 11, 2004 2:02 am

, and save the hassle of low-profit route.

Why is this any lower profit than any other short turboprop route to DFW? If loads are low, they should can the route, but last time I looked, the planes were pretty full to GGG.
"If the facts do not conform to the theory, they will have to be disposed of"
 
flyibaby
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RE: American Ends 6 Routes

Sat Dec 11, 2004 2:10 am

The BOS-SEA makes sense since they codeshare with AS anyway and can free up an aircraft for a more profitable route.
 
UA744KSFO
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RE: American Ends 6 Routes

Sat Dec 11, 2004 2:14 am

Where's GGG? My cursor doesn't tell me. I would guess it's somewhere near DFW.
 
N670UW
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RE: American Ends 6 Routes

Sat Dec 11, 2004 2:30 am

GGG = Longview/Gladewater TX.

It's east of DFW, not far from the LA/TX state line.


N670UW
 
AA-SAN
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RE: American Ends 6 Routes

Sat Dec 11, 2004 3:07 am

What is their plan for the MX they have been doing in SBP? Are they closing shop, or are we going to start seeing the jungle jets on the LAX-SBP run???
 
moman
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RE: American Ends 6 Routes

Sat Dec 11, 2004 3:43 am

Another piece of TWA dismanted =)

Couldn't help but add that!

Moman
AA Platinum Member - American Airlines Forever
 
LambertMan
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RE: American Ends 6 Routes

Sat Dec 11, 2004 3:50 am

Last time I had heard, STL-SJU was a pretty terrible performer (this was around last march tho). I've speculated before on here about it being dropped, and it certainly doesn't surrpsie me. Given its a hub route, I wouldn't be shocked if it reappears in the future. In the future maybe Cancun will go daily, it certainly has the loads to do so.
 
FA4B6
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RE: American Ends 6 Routes

Sat Dec 11, 2004 4:19 am

Something tells me we'll see an announcement soon from B6 ... maybe this will encourage us to start connecting some dots in BOS.
"Leap! And the net will appear."
 
MAH4546
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RE: American Ends 6 Routes

Sat Dec 11, 2004 4:31 am

Most of these route cuts have been discussed before, nothing new.

FLL-CCS is the biggest surprise, loads were good. It may operate during the summer travel period, from what I hear.

FLL-BOS is not being discontinued as originally planned. It remains.

FLL-SDQ is gone due to new lowfare compieition. The flight will move to MIA.

STL-SJU is not being discontinued, just suspended until peak travel periods. It will operate at very limited times.

Also, with SJC-SBP gone, there will be one daily ERJ on the LAX-SBP route.
a.
 
kkfla737
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RE: American Ends 6 Routes

Sat Dec 11, 2004 5:18 am

Spitit not Jet Blue is on the FLL-SDQ run. I'm glad AA is maintaining the FLL-BOS route. That is route that needs at lease one fulls ervice carrier flying it. Currently the competetion is provided by B6 and Song to BOS and WN and NK to Providence.
 
Trvlr
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RE: American Ends 6 Routes

Sat Dec 11, 2004 5:44 am

San Jose and Seattle have taken big hits lately. It is clear that AA has abandoned focus city plans in SJC, but frequent flyers in Seattle are probably pretty miffed, considering how much of the operation AA has cut recently. If I were up there, I'd consider switching to AS...

Aaron G.
 
plaaneboy
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RE: American Ends 6 Routes

Sat Dec 11, 2004 5:53 am

FLL-CCS is the biggest surprise, loads were good. It may operate during the summer travel period, from what I hear.

I'm not surprised. This was a route Peter Dolara wanted to stay a step ahead of LCCs and not yield FLL to them. FLLCCS only made money during the Christmas Holiday period and broke even during peak summer travel (AUG-SEP). The rest of the year it lost money. The loads are okay, but the yields are terrible. Couple that with the fact that it was cannibalizing the very profitable MIACCS route, and you have pretty good reasons to cancel the route.

Venezuela to the U.S. is the only market in Latin America that is dominated by Latin Point of Sale (approx. 80% of passengers on CCS and MAR are beginning their trips in Venezuela). Many people in Venezuela, and in Latin America for that matter, aren't as familiar with FLL as they are MIA. Even though FLL is only 17 miles from MIA, people in Venezuela preferred to travel to MIA despite the fact that in some cases FLL was more convenient for them.



 
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jfklganyc
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RE: American Ends 6 Routes

Sat Dec 11, 2004 9:20 am

Eagle has no plans to retire the remaining Saabs in the near future. This is because we can't serve many of the smaller cities out of DFW with the RJs.

While it seems like a good idea to retire an aircraft type, we would be losing several markets.

PJ
 
Thrust
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RE: American Ends 6 Routes

Sat Dec 11, 2004 10:32 am

NOOOOOOO! NOT STL TO SJU!!!!! Please tell me it isn't true!!!! I want it much more often, not just once in a while.
Fly one thing; Fly it well
 
BOSMAD
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RE: American Ends 6 Routes

Sat Dec 11, 2004 10:47 am

Great, more cuts for BOS. While I have no inside information and do not know the economics of it, I was on BOS-SEA at least 3 round trips a year. Flights always full. Lots of business travelers, as should be expected between these city pairs.

BOS-SJC is usually once a year for me. Largely business travellers. AA was the only nonstop on this route.

More and more reason to forget loyalty to AA. It seems like they have less and less interest in serving the BOS market.
 
ramerinianair
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RE: American Ends 6 Routes

Sat Dec 11, 2004 11:16 am

B6 doesn't compete in the FLL to Carrebbean markets!
AA had some nice loads but the yields were LOOOOOW, especially into SDQ! If they believe they can move the a/c to more profitable routes, more power to them. They did announce new service out of BOS and ORD to the UK so it doesn't make this announcement look all that bad.
Plus, with the spring/summer scheduled service from US and NK from FLL to all the vacation destinations south of there, they will not yield anything anyway.
I think that SONG will also start FLL-the carrebbean and CUN.
SR
W N = my Worst Nightmare!!!!!
 
tungd
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RE: American Ends 6 Routes

Sat Dec 11, 2004 11:27 am

Jfklganyc,

Just wondering...why can't the Saabs (34 pax) be replaced with the ERJ-135s (37 pax) for the commuter markets? Is it economics, airfield (runway) requirements, or both? I'm not in the industry, but it's my guess that even the smallest RJs are much less profitable on the 100-200 nm routes the Saabs typically fly. And since the remaining Saabs aren't really that old, why not make full use of them?

Your thoughts?
 
ejmmsu
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RE: American Ends 6 Routes

Sat Dec 11, 2004 11:36 am

If AA was smart, they would keep the saabs out of DFW, and purchase Q400's to replace the RJ's on their routes to AMA, LBB, OKC, LIT, SHV, HOU, etc. This would save them a lot of money, and allow them to move the RJ's to higher yielding routes, or sell them on the open market.
"If the facts do not conform to the theory, they will have to be disposed of"
 
tungd
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RE: American Ends 6 Routes

Sat Dec 11, 2004 12:12 pm

You're right about saving money with props, Ejmmsu, but passengers will always think of any plane with a propeller as "old-fashioned" and sometimes even scary; it probably wouldn't even matter if the plane rolled out of the factory last week, all the seats were first-class sleepers, etc... I guess you could call it "propaphobia," but the fact that turboprops will always be more efficient on very short-haul flights is irrelevant to the general flying public. Also, the local governments of the small-metro-areas-that-think-they're-big-cities (AMA, LBB, MAF) control their "international" airports, and only kicking and screaming will they allow their all-jet service to be compromised. I'm surprised AMA has allowed prop service to DEN, but that's probably the only option they had...several years before AAEagle began flying RJs, the AA mainline jet routes were replaced with ATRs into LBB and MAF, but the Amarillo city council worked out a deal w/ AA to continue Fokker 100 service; the city paid AA to continue all-jet service mainly because of the "pride" factor.
 
MAH4546
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RE: American Ends 6 Routes

Sat Dec 11, 2004 12:36 pm

AA had some nice loads but the yields were LOOOOOW, especially into SDQ!

Yields were low on SDQ and not great on CCS. FLL-PAP has done very well, though, so it is staying.

I think that SONG will also start FLL-the carrebbean and CUN.

With two US airlines - Spirit and US Airways - flying FLL-CUN, Delta/Song cannot fly the route. And don't hold your breate for Delta to start FLL-Caribbean. They will stick with ATL for Caribbean expansion.
a.
 
ramerinianair
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RE: American Ends 6 Routes

Sat Dec 11, 2004 3:17 pm

BOSMAD,
The BOS-SJU flight was really mostly business men??? I figured that it was mostly cruise goers and other vacationers.
Any particular reason for such a need for the biz traveler??
SR
W N = my Worst Nightmare!!!!!
 
FlewGSW
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RE: American Ends 6 Routes

Sat Dec 11, 2004 3:31 pm

New rumor. American Eagle wants to have talks with Mesa about swapping some Eagle 37 and 44 seater ERJs for Mesa's 50 seat ERJs.

Also, to operate an RJ into an airport, I think the field has to have an on-site fire department. I know back in '76 at Oshkosh WI, when North Central's DC-9 came inbound, the fire truck had to be on ready, (it could not be on fire hydrant checks) but such a ready state was not required for the CV-580's.

Of all the city pairs that AA and AE fly between, which has the most daily frequency? Answer: between LAX and SAN, all on Saab 340b. And it'll stay that way for a long time.
 
N1120A
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RE: American Ends 6 Routes

Sat Dec 11, 2004 3:51 pm

>When did B6 start flying to CCS and SDQ ?<

B6 does serve SDQ, but not CCS.

>American Eagle wants to have talks with Mesa about swapping some Eagle 37 and 44 seater ERJs for Mesa's 50 seat ERJs.<

Do you mean their 50 seat CRJs? Personally, I think they should send out the CRJ-700s in exchange for some E170s
Mangeons les French fries, mais surtout pratiquons avec fierte le French kiss
 
FlewGSW
Posts: 148
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RE: American Ends 6 Routes

Sat Dec 11, 2004 3:59 pm

Do you mean their 50 seat CRJs?

No, their ERJ-145s
http://www.mesa-air.com/fleet/erjet.asp
 
ejmmsu
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RE: American Ends 6 Routes

Sat Dec 11, 2004 4:19 pm

I think AAeagle has not been pleased with their CR7's. I doubt they would do anything to pick up any CRJ's, espescially the CR2's.
"If the facts do not conform to the theory, they will have to be disposed of"
 
aeroc
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RE: American Ends 6 Routes

Sat Dec 11, 2004 4:41 pm

I do agree with you Ejmmsu about AE not being pleased with the CR7. Those things have more MECH problems than any other plane in AE's fleet including the SAAB. I would hate to see those things start to fly into my market in ROC, I really don't think they will, but if they do we all have to get ready for MECH problems! I also was wondering about AE's plan for the SAAB, (I loved working around those planes) is the current retirement still around the 2007 mark or has anyone heard differently? What's going to happen with markets like ACT and SPS which are really short flights and would not really be profitable with RJ service? On the other hand ILE or now GRK has built a new airport that can handle RJ's, but when the WX goes down the flights cancel. Any thoughts?
 
LH423
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RE: American Ends 6 Routes

Sat Dec 11, 2004 4:52 pm

The BOS-SJU flight was really mostly business men???

SJC, not SJU. SJC=San José, California, not San Juan, Puerto Rico (SJU). SJU remains with a few flights a day. And yes, while SJU serves a major connecting point for New Englanders and Eastern Canadians to connect to other Caribbean destinations, it also serves as a vital link to the large Puerto Rican population in New England.

I do have to agree with BOSMAD, though. AA has for the most part stopped adding route out of BOS and started taking away routes. The SEA route makes sense. AS started it then AA augmented. Too much capacity on a route that doesn't need that much. AS is fine with their daily flight in the Winter and double-daily in the Summer. AA was really just hurting themselves. They will still codeshare on the AS flights.

Sad to see them drop SJC though. I guess in someways it makes sense. It was overwhelmingly popular during the mid to late-90s tech boom, connecting the Silicon Valley to the I-95 corridor around Boston, two very large technology centres, which now no longer have quiet the same importance. I think that AA could still make it work with a 737.

LH423
« On ne voit bien qu'avec le cœur. L'essentiel est invisible pour les yeux » Antoine de Saint-Exupéry
 
MAH4546
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RE: American Ends 6 Routes

Sat Dec 11, 2004 5:26 pm

The SEA route makes sense. AS started it then AA augmented.

AA had BOS-SEA well before Alaska Airlines did. AA did suspend the route in January 2002, brought it back for the summer season of that year.

They will still codeshare on the AS flights.

I don't know why, but AA is ending their codeshare on BOS-SEA in January. AA will still codeshare on MIA/IAD/EWR-SEA. Very odd.
a.
 
ejmmsu
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RE: American Ends 6 Routes

Sat Dec 11, 2004 5:28 pm

Those are really good questions AERoc.

Airports like SPS (my home airport) have some very interesting issues. You are right about being way too close to DFW for RJ service. I doubt a jet would even make cruising altitude before its time to head back down.

It is a two hour drive from here to DFW airport. Most people leave about 4 hours before their DFW flight if they are driving there. Flying out of SPS, most people leave for the airport here about an hour before their flight, the flight lasts about 30 mins, and then have about an hour connection at DFW. So the net gain in time is about 1-1.5 hours by flying out of here. Also, it costs 6-10 dollars a day to park remotely at DFW, and it costs a $2 flat fee for any period of time to park at SPS. For a five day itenerary, you save about 60 dollars on gas and parking to fly out of SPS. In general, if a flight is less than $50 more to fly from SPS as opposed to DFW, it makes sense to book it from here. In some cases this is true of SPS fares, in some cases this is not.

Another confounding variable is the fact that OKC is only a two hour drive from SPS. OKC is much more convinient than DFW, the parking is cheaper, and the flights are on average 30-50% cheaper to any to any city that has WN as a tennant as opposed to DFW. For example, a flight from OKC-STL is about $120 dollars, and DFW-STL is about $300. Due to economics, SPS is diefinately in OKC's catchment area.

I would think that AA would be dooming itself by replacing the Saab's with RJ's on these short routes. I hope AA does not pull a DL on us and think that the wave of the future is removing turboprops completely. Thats what DL did at DFW and they weren't able to compete (this was just one of many issues that led to their downfall here). The economics are just not there for jet service to destinations within 300 miles of DFW. As I said before, AA should have never introduced jet service into AMA, LBB, SHV, LIT, MAF, HOU, TXK, in the first place.

Maybe the answer is an inexpensive shuttle bus between SPS and DFW that still allows for the security checks at SPS, and allows pax off the bus inside the security area at DFW. Make the fee about $10 each way for anyone with an AA ticket. This concept might even work for a shuttle to OKC (which i'd rather have). The cool thing about a shuttle between SPS-DFW is that it avoids DFW traffic since DFW is on the northern edge of the metroplex. This cannot be said for ACT, which is south of DFW.

Currently, AA has six daily SF-340's to SPS, and six daily SF-340's to LAW, so I guess the capacity is about 400 seats per day. Maybe another answer is 6 daily Q400's that stop in SPS, head up to LAW, and then head on to DFW.
"If the facts do not conform to the theory, they will have to be disposed of"
 
ei2ksea
Posts: 436
Joined: Wed Jul 21, 2004 11:17 pm

RE: American Ends 6 Routes

Sat Dec 11, 2004 9:23 pm

Might AS go to a third daily SEA-BOS flight now that AA have dropped the route? Would sure love to see some more eskimos in Logan...Perhaps the loss of the codeshare traffic might make it less attractive to Alaska, they may not have any spare next-gen B737s also...

Regards
Ph
Next Flight: DUB-BOS (EI), BOS-DEN-PDX (SWA), SEA-BOS (AS)
 
sjsu2sjcAA777
Posts: 42
Joined: Thu Oct 07, 2004 9:26 am

RE: American Ends 6 Routes

Sat Dec 11, 2004 10:03 pm

Are all these closures final or seasonal, and is there any possibility of sjc getting some more routes like back in the good old days will destinations such as PHX, SEA, PDX, CDG, TPE, and MIA?
 
NW7E7
Posts: 479
Joined: Sun Jun 20, 2004 11:43 am

RE: American Ends 6 Routes

Sun Dec 12, 2004 1:03 am

ejmmsu
Hey, look at NW on the MEM-LIT route. They are using A319's and DC-9's and it's only 127 miles away and are making tons of money.

If AA were to fly their SAABS to LIT instead of CR7's and a couple of ER4's, there would be about 23 flights a day between LIT-DFW. IF you count DL in too there would be 29 and with WN there would be 35 flights a day from LIT-Dallas alone.

NW7E7
 
luisde8cd
Posts: 2444
Joined: Thu Aug 12, 2004 12:02 am

RE: American Ends 6 Routes

Sun Dec 12, 2004 2:37 am

B6 does serve SDQ, but not CCS.

Yes but not from FLL as we were talking about.
 
LH423
Posts: 5868
Joined: Sun Jul 11, 1999 6:27 am

RE: American Ends 6 Routes

Sun Dec 12, 2004 5:28 am

AA had BOS-SEA well before Alaska Airlines did

They and United both started the route. UA ducked out early on, AA soldiered on for a bit longer, but both left the route. Only after AS announced the route did AA announce they were restarting it, initially with one flight, with a second to follow shortly thereafter. In the meantime, AS started with one but added on the seasonal redeye.

LH423
« On ne voit bien qu'avec le cœur. L'essentiel est invisible pour les yeux » Antoine de Saint-Exupéry
 
ejmmsu
Posts: 1647
Joined: Sat Oct 23, 2004 6:05 am

RE: American Ends 6 Routes

Sun Dec 12, 2004 2:22 pm

I was thinking about using a 70 passenger turboprop with the same capacity as the RJ's
"If the facts do not conform to the theory, they will have to be disposed of"
 
tommy767
Posts: 4658
Joined: Sat Aug 09, 2003 12:18 pm

RE: American Ends 6 Routes

Sun Dec 12, 2004 2:25 pm

Does this end AA's presence at FLL as a focus city?
"KEEP CLIMBING" -- DELTA
 
flywithken
Posts: 195
Joined: Fri Nov 05, 1999 2:19 am

RE: American Ends 6 Routes

Sun Dec 12, 2004 3:25 pm

Isnt GGG covered in the Essential air service act?

 
jcs17
Posts: 7376
Joined: Mon Jun 18, 2001 11:13 am

RE: American Ends 6 Routes

Sun Dec 12, 2004 6:50 pm

Damn, AA is ending STL-SJU service. I can remember the day when I was boarding a flight bound for ATL from SJU on Delta and a TW 747 Classic was parked at the gate next to us.
America's chickens are coming home to rooooost!
 
Lrockeagle
Posts: 71
Joined: Wed Oct 06, 2004 1:40 am

RE: American Ends 6 Routes

Mon Dec 13, 2004 1:54 am

Eagle hates the CR7. I'm staring at one right now here in LIT with the #1 engine thrust reverser stuck open. (no camera!) When I left Eagle last month SEA was getting bigger and bigger all the time. What services are they pulling? They need to bring the S80 back here but they won't fly those to DFW from here because people are still scared after Flt. 1420.
 
PSU.DTW.SCE
Posts: 6106
Joined: Mon Jan 28, 2002 11:45 am

RE: American Ends 6 Routes

Mon Dec 13, 2004 6:51 am

Lrock,

what are you talking about? AA flew MD-80's into LIT long after the flight 1420 incident. Most people have completely forgetten about it I'm sure. Its because its now an Eagle station and AA pulled mainline service due to economics, not because of passenger fears.
 
BOSMAD
Posts: 26
Joined: Sat Jun 05, 2004 7:05 am

RE: American Ends 6 Routes

Tue Dec 14, 2004 12:14 am

So, if I understand correctly, not only is AA dropping BOS-SEA, but they are ending the codeshare with Alaskan on this route as well? In essence, then, there will not be any nonstop AA flight number between these city pairs.

BTW, while a codeshare is clearly better than no service at all, most AA frequent flyers consider it to be almost useless, as you cannot use AA electronic upgrades or miles to upgrade to first. For those of us who stick with AA at least partially for ff issues, this is a serious concern.

At any rate, it seems like BOS is on the decline for AA.

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