GLAGAZ
Topic Author
Posts: 1844
Joined: Sat Feb 28, 2004 5:42 am

GLA-Germany: Whats The Problem?

Sat Dec 11, 2004 12:15 am

Can anyone explain why currently there are no direct flights from GLA to Germany? Routes in the past seemed to be popular, Germany is one of the biggest countries in Europe and is Europe's leading manufacturer, yet not even GLA-FRA exists.

Anyone have any ideas.
Neutrality means that u don't really care cos the struggle goes on even when ur not there, blind and unaware
 
by738
Posts: 2412
Joined: Wed Sep 20, 2000 7:59 am

RE: GLA-Germany: Whats The Problem?

Sat Dec 11, 2004 12:22 am

Prestwick and Ryanair to Germany is the obvious problem I think
 
gkirk
Posts: 23345
Joined: Thu Jun 15, 2000 3:29 am

RE: GLA-Germany: Whats The Problem?

Sat Dec 11, 2004 12:30 am

As By738 says, a lot of airlines are probably scared of going head to head with Ryanair operating from PIK.
Lack of slots at FRA stops LH from starting a GLA-FRA service I believe
When you hear the noise of the Tartan Army Boys, we'll be coming down the road!
 
JAT74L
Posts: 606
Joined: Sat May 29, 2004 5:37 pm

RE: GLA-Germany: Whats The Problem?

Sat Dec 11, 2004 12:33 am

And EDI is so close anyway. I'm amazed that CO serve both.

John
I like trains just as much as planes but trains don't like the Atlantic!
 
vfw614
Posts: 3168
Joined: Mon Dec 10, 2001 12:34 am

RE: GLA-Germany: Whats The Problem?

Sat Dec 11, 2004 2:36 am

GLA has long been rumoured as the next Lufthansa destination from either FRA or MUC. I remember the Regional Manager UK of Lufthansa going on the record with that. I don't think it has anything to do with Ryanair and their PIK serivce but rather believe that Lufthansa is worried that their EDI-FRA service might be cannibalized.
 
GLAGAZ
Topic Author
Posts: 1844
Joined: Sat Feb 28, 2004 5:42 am

RE: GLA-Germany: Whats The Problem?

Sat Dec 11, 2004 3:39 am

I do not think that their EDI service would be compromised too much. BA offer indirect services via BHX,BRS etc and you can fly BD GLA-MAN then onto Germany. EDI is obviously the easiest option available to people in the Glasgow area but a direct service would surely be profitable and welcomed.
Neutrality means that u don't really care cos the struggle goes on even when ur not there, blind and unaware
 
bmi330
Posts: 1429
Joined: Sun Nov 11, 2001 9:04 am

RE: GLA-Germany: Whats The Problem?

Sat Dec 11, 2004 9:07 am

Chill people GLA- Germany is going to happen soon Globespan will be in there in a year or two I would think. Cant see LH at GLA now but I would prefer GS anyways. It is strange thought that there is no LH or AF at GLA.

P.S GLA is back as being Scotlands fastest growing airport for the third month in a row after edi being faster for a good long while SO well done BAA Glasgow and we are getting direct flights to Lithuania x5 a week in 2005.
 
vfw614
Posts: 3168
Joined: Mon Dec 10, 2001 12:34 am

RE: GLA-Germany: Whats The Problem?

Sat Dec 11, 2004 5:06 pm

GLA at one point in the late 1980s even had a Lufthansa service to DUS, operated by CItyline Brasilias.

As for the "direct" flights to Germany from EDI and GLA via MAN or BHX, they are advertised and sold as such (and statistically covered by the CAA). According to the CAA stats they attract only very few passengers.

Not sure if a Flyglobespan-like operation would be what is needed as it would be a LCC-style once daily flight. There are daily Ryanair flights from PIK to the DUS and FRA areas through NRN and HHN catering for the cost-conscious clientele. I think a twice or thrice daily CanRJ to FRA or MUC would make sense, so as to offer a) connecting flights and b) a day return option for business travellers.
 
Runway31
Posts: 72
Joined: Fri Nov 19, 2004 6:26 am

RE: GLA-Germany: Whats The Problem?

Sat Dec 11, 2004 7:42 pm

There is no problem, Germany is well served from Prestwick with Hahn and Neiderhein with Lubeck coming on line in March.

The reason there is no LH or AF at Glasgow is that they cannot compete with Ryanair at Prestwick.

[Edited 2004-12-11 11:43:12]
 
gustyorange
Posts: 191
Joined: Mon Feb 23, 2004 12:53 am

RE: GLA-Germany: Whats The Problem?

Sat Dec 11, 2004 9:05 pm

There is a real problem for travellers who don't like being treated like sh*t.

I have not, and never will fly Ryanair. I'm sure there are many more people like me.

Hopefully LH will see what they are missing out on and return to GLA shortly.

Gusty
 
gkirk
Posts: 23345
Joined: Thu Jun 15, 2000 3:29 am

RE: GLA-Germany: Whats The Problem?

Sat Dec 11, 2004 9:08 pm

LH (Operated by British Midland/Business Air) used to fly a daily GLA-FRA flight, this then got reduced to weekends only before being cut I believe. The service used Bae 146-200s.
When you hear the noise of the Tartan Army Boys, we'll be coming down the road!
 
HUYfan
Posts: 1184
Joined: Sun Oct 21, 2001 9:38 pm

RE: GLA-Germany: Whats The Problem?

Sat Dec 11, 2004 9:15 pm

If LH can make a daily NCL-DUS work, then I am undoubtedly sure LH could make services from Glasgow to Munich, Frankfurt, Hamburg and Dusseldorf work. CRJs all round.

Regards

Mike
 
gustyorange
Posts: 191
Joined: Mon Feb 23, 2004 12:53 am

RE: GLA-Germany: Whats The Problem?

Sat Dec 11, 2004 9:43 pm

You are spot on HUYfan.

FRA would be a real winner I'd guess, the only problem appears to be the slots.

Gusty
 
by188b
Posts: 549
Joined: Sun Jul 27, 2003 10:46 am

RE: GLA-Germany: Whats The Problem?

Sat Dec 11, 2004 10:05 pm

LH Have operated a GLA-FRA service in the past using a boeing 737, this was in the mid 90's IIRC. This was before Ryanair started PIK-Germany services, so if it couldnt work then well it may not work now.
next flights : BD LHR-TXL J, FR SXF-STN Y, SN BRU-LHR Y, MA LHR-BUD Y, BA BUD-LHR J, BA LCY-SNN-JFK J, BA JFK-LHR J, BA
 
ScottishLaddie
Posts: 2309
Joined: Sat Jan 03, 2004 8:30 am

RE: GLA-Germany: Whats The Problem?

Sat Dec 11, 2004 10:17 pm

They wouldn't want to compromise their EDI service, they aren't even keen on anyone starting EDI-MUC for fear of it damaging their FRA service apparently.
 
gkirk
Posts: 23345
Joined: Thu Jun 15, 2000 3:29 am

RE: GLA-Germany: Whats The Problem?

Sat Dec 11, 2004 10:24 pm

They could always switch their EDI services ver to GLA.  Big grin
When you hear the noise of the Tartan Army Boys, we'll be coming down the road!
 
ScottishLaddie
Posts: 2309
Joined: Sat Jan 03, 2004 8:30 am

RE: GLA-Germany: Whats The Problem?

Sat Dec 11, 2004 11:04 pm

They could always switch their EDI services ver to GLA

What's it worth?  Big grin
 
gkirk
Posts: 23345
Joined: Thu Jun 15, 2000 3:29 am

RE: GLA-Germany: Whats The Problem?

Sat Dec 11, 2004 11:19 pm

ScottishLaddie, GLA has a much larger catchment area  Wink/being sarcastic
When you hear the noise of the Tartan Army Boys, we'll be coming down the road!
 
Runway31
Posts: 72
Joined: Fri Nov 19, 2004 6:26 am

RE: GLA-Germany: Whats The Problem?

Sat Dec 11, 2004 11:23 pm

I would have thought that the catchment area for any of the airports within the central belt would have been most of Scotland as they are all easy to reach in a decent time.
 
ScottishLaddie
Posts: 2309
Joined: Sat Jan 03, 2004 8:30 am

RE: GLA-Germany: Whats The Problem?

Sat Dec 11, 2004 11:32 pm

GLA's catchment area is EDI's and vice versa.  Big grin More people want to come to EDI. It's not all about outbound, you get inbound visitors as well you know.
 
gkirk
Posts: 23345
Joined: Thu Jun 15, 2000 3:29 am

RE: GLA-Germany: Whats The Problem?

Sat Dec 11, 2004 11:33 pm

More people want to come to EDI
Must be for the drugs or gay bars or something  Big grin
When you hear the noise of the Tartan Army Boys, we'll be coming down the road!
 
by738
Posts: 2412
Joined: Wed Sep 20, 2000 7:59 am

RE: GLA-Germany: Whats The Problem?

Sun Dec 12, 2004 2:20 am

Here we go again. Yawn Yawn Yawn
 
vfw614
Posts: 3168
Joined: Mon Dec 10, 2001 12:34 am

RE: GLA-Germany: Whats The Problem?

Sun Dec 12, 2004 7:48 pm

Why should Ryanair be a problem for Lufthansa ?

Lufthansa has not axed their services from Frankfurt to London, Barcelona, Rome, Venice, Pisa, Stockholm, Oslo, Riga, Gothenburg, Milan or Bologna just because Ryanair have begun to serve those destinations (or pretend to....) from Frankfurt Hahn. Both airlines certainly serve different markets, particularily if you have two tertiary airports as remote as PIK and HHN and a once daily flight compared to two or three daily flights with a CanRJ from GLA to FRA.

The main problem at FRA are slots, they are so precious that Lufthansa certainly has better use for them than for a short-haul route that serves a market that to some extent is served from EDI already and that would syphon off pax from bmi's connecting traffic through LHR and MAN.
 
Runway31
Posts: 72
Joined: Fri Nov 19, 2004 6:26 am

RE: GLA-Germany: Whats The Problem?

Mon Dec 13, 2004 1:01 am

VFW.

While you may consider Prestwick and Hahn remote I do not. I flew the route earlier in the week and I live reasonably near to Prestwick and I was going to Cochem south of Frankfurt. The airport pairing was correct for me. On returning, I was at home within 1 hour 15 minutes of the scheduled arrival time, that's fine by me. 32 miles from the centre of Glasgow is not remote.

The 2 million passengers using Prestwick this year do not seem to consider it to remote nor do the millions using Hahn. By the way the burgers in the Hahn terminal grill were very good and reasonably priced - recommended.

While the passenger numbers between the destinations you named may be able to handle the number of flights offered, the Germany - Scotland route does not. Lufthansa left Glasgow a number of years ago as they could not make money on the route. Why would they do so now?. Let them come and offer any route they think is feasible, if it is the right product at the right price, passengers will use it, if not they won't.

As you wrote, the full price carriers can get their passengers to Frankfurt via London, Manchester etc, without adding to the costs for them. Their passengers pay additional costs, require additional time and extra inconvenience but if that is what they want more power to their elbow.

 
by738
Posts: 2412
Joined: Wed Sep 20, 2000 7:59 am

RE: GLA-Germany: Whats The Problem?

Mon Dec 13, 2004 1:29 am

I feel neglected as someone who wants to fly direct from Glasgow but not on the likes of Ryanair. I want a full service airline and everything that goes with it. There is a distinct lack of it available. I would be encouraged to travel to other destinations if there were direct flights. I dont like the hassle of travelling at least 50 mins to PIK there and back, or having to change and transfer at LHR.
 
ScottishLaddie
Posts: 2309
Joined: Sat Jan 03, 2004 8:30 am

RE: GLA-Germany: Whats The Problem?

Mon Dec 13, 2004 1:33 am

I feel neglected as someone who wants to fly direct from Glasgow but not on the likes of Ryanair. I want a full service airline and everything that goes with it.

lol, what you want you won't always get. What you've just said could apply to airports all over the UK. EDI for it's lack of long haul, somewhere like Carlisle and it's lack of any service at all...
 
gkirk
Posts: 23345
Joined: Thu Jun 15, 2000 3:29 am

RE: GLA-Germany: Whats The Problem?

Mon Dec 13, 2004 4:38 am

ScottishLaddie, Edinburgh only has one long haul scheduled flight for a reason. As Glasgow only has a small number of long haul scheduled flights.
Scotland is an extremly small market, which to be honest I dint think can expand further.
When you hear the noise of the Tartan Army Boys, we'll be coming down the road!
 
Runway31
Posts: 72
Joined: Fri Nov 19, 2004 6:26 am

RE: GLA-Germany: Whats The Problem?

Mon Dec 13, 2004 5:06 am

If you don't like the idea of travelling 50 minutes to get to Prestwick, how long does it take you to get to Glasgow ?.
 
ScottishLaddie
Posts: 2309
Joined: Sat Jan 03, 2004 8:30 am

RE: GLA-Germany: Whats The Problem?

Mon Dec 13, 2004 5:28 am

Scotland is an extremly small market, which to be honest I dint think can expand further.

That's a bit extreme. Nobody's saying the market is huge, but Edinburgh is the 2nd most popular tourist and business destination in the UK, behind London obviously, and we have a population of 5 million, which is by no means huge, but large enough to support the flights we have and more. I think there is definitely room for more expansion, especially to places like Eastern Europe etc.
 
Runway31
Posts: 72
Joined: Fri Nov 19, 2004 6:26 am

RE: GLA-Germany: Whats The Problem?

Mon Dec 13, 2004 5:34 am

The market is bigger than the 5 mil Scottish population. On some of the Ryanair destinations, inbound passengers account for 75-80% of the passenger totals. If we want people from other countries to visit, we have to give them the direct flights to make it easier for them.
 
gustyorange
Posts: 191
Joined: Mon Feb 23, 2004 12:53 am

RE: GLA-Germany: Whats The Problem?

Mon Dec 13, 2004 5:34 am

IT takes me 10 mins to get to GLA and 50 to get to PIK.

On top of that PIK has no air bridges, the terminal is a toilet etc, etc...

BAA messed up big time by not closing it down.

Gusty
 
Runway31
Posts: 72
Joined: Fri Nov 19, 2004 6:26 am

RE: GLA-Germany: Whats The Problem?

Mon Dec 13, 2004 5:39 am

Well Gusty take your direct scheduled European flights from Glasgow. Oh I forgot you don't have many.
 
gustyorange
Posts: 191
Joined: Mon Feb 23, 2004 12:53 am

RE: GLA-Germany: Whats The Problem?

Mon Dec 13, 2004 5:47 am

R31,

For a 50 yr old you have a lot of growing up to do.

Gusty
 
Runway31
Posts: 72
Joined: Fri Nov 19, 2004 6:26 am

RE: GLA-Germany: Whats The Problem?

Mon Dec 13, 2004 5:51 am

Gusty,

Have a read at your post before making comments about growing up.
 
gustyorange
Posts: 191
Joined: Mon Feb 23, 2004 12:53 am

RE: GLA-Germany: Whats The Problem?

Mon Dec 13, 2004 6:00 am

I'm signing out of this thread.

I'm not going to fan the flames of a silly debate by continuing to reply to the intellectually challenged.

Gusty

 
bmi330
Posts: 1429
Joined: Sun Nov 11, 2001 9:04 am

RE: GLA-Germany: Whats The Problem?

Mon Dec 13, 2004 8:06 am

Children calm down! Glasgow dosnet have loads of euro city flights by carriers like BA, AF and LH because everyone want to go on there hols to spain and north america.

The only time a will be on an aircraft is if i am going on holiday going to see a sports event or going to visit some one. So i dont think i would use an LH service to FRA. Would use a CDG service if going to disneyland apart from that i would use long hauls out of GLA or charters.

There is not a majour market for not very touristy place from GLA.
 
gkirk
Posts: 23345
Joined: Thu Jun 15, 2000 3:29 am

RE: GLA-Germany: Whats The Problem?

Mon Dec 13, 2004 8:09 am

ScottishLaddie:
but Edinburgh is the 2nd most popular tourist and business destination in the UK,

Im gonna say bollocks to that. More business are in Birmingham and Manchester than Glasgow and Edinburgh combined.

When you hear the noise of the Tartan Army Boys, we'll be coming down the road!
 
ScottishLaddie
Posts: 2309
Joined: Sat Jan 03, 2004 8:30 am

RE: GLA-Germany: Whats The Problem?

Mon Dec 13, 2004 9:13 am

You're so spiteful towards Edinburgh, GKirk.  Big grin
Manchester. Edinburgh is bigger than Manchester. Yields are strong on most flights into EDI, down to it the large amount of business traffic on most or all of it's routes. There is the RBS World headquarters for a start...
I'll dig up some evidence to back up what I've said, if I can be bothered just now...  Big grin
 
bmi330
Posts: 1429
Joined: Sun Nov 11, 2001 9:04 am

RE: GLA-Germany: Whats The Problem?

Mon Dec 13, 2004 9:32 am

The edi evening news or Scotsman are not reliable sources. Please don't associate Glasgow with Edinburgh as I don't want Glasgows good name dragged through the mud thank you also who cares about Manchester, Edinburgh or Birmingham there all shit holes!
 
ScottishLaddie
Posts: 2309
Joined: Sat Jan 03, 2004 8:30 am

RE: GLA-Germany: Whats The Problem?

Mon Dec 13, 2004 9:45 am

Im gonna say bollocks to that. More business are in Birmingham and Manchester than Glasgow and Edinburgh combined.

A quick Google search brought up: You can always rely on FR!  Big grin

Edinburgh is a significant business centre particularly strong in banking and insurance and, after London, is the UK's most important financial centre.

http://www.ryanair.com/dest/edinburgh.html

[Edited 2004-12-13 01:45:38]
 
bmi330
Posts: 1429
Joined: Sun Nov 11, 2001 9:04 am

RE: GLA-Germany: Whats The Problem?

Mon Dec 13, 2004 9:47 am

the same airline that names airports 100 milies away from the city that name sure. Great sorce was it called Gla east by any chance lol.
 
by738
Posts: 2412
Joined: Wed Sep 20, 2000 7:59 am

RE: GLA-Germany: Whats The Problem?

Mon Dec 13, 2004 10:00 am

Edinburgh is bigger than Manchester
????
In just one industry ( banking ) perhaps but population wise there is not much in it (UK Census figures 2001 )
Edinburgh 430,000
Manchester (City )400,000
Far more important figures however are -
Greater Manchester 2,482,328
Glasgow (City )629,000

The passenger numbers through MAN compared to EDI just highlight this

Yields are strong on most flights into EDI
Again, where you'll dig up some facts and figures for that statement, I'll be very interested to see. Load factors and passenger numbers which are freely available ,are completely different to yields ie actual profit produced. No airline is ever likely to make those figures public.
Care to share with us the routes that do not have strong "yields"....

[Edited 2004-12-13 02:02:41]
 
lennymuir
Posts: 403
Joined: Mon Oct 14, 2002 7:58 am

RE: GLA-Germany: Whats The Problem?

Mon Dec 13, 2004 11:04 am

Great sorce was it called Gla east by any chance lol
So, PIK is GLA South?
 Sleepy

This could be a really good read, but you guys must stick to the question.

I think Bmi330 hit the target.
The only time a will be on an aircraft is if i am going on holiday going to see a sports event or going to visit some one. So i dont think i would use an LH service to FRA. Would use a CDG service if going to disneyland apart from that i would use long hauls out of GLA or charters.

There is not a majour market for not very touristy place from GLA.


100% correct!

Gerry

Who is online