yegbey01
Posts: 1349
Joined: Wed Nov 05, 2003 11:04 am

Emirates Ads In Canadian Business Magazine

Sat Dec 11, 2004 1:12 pm

I was just going though Canadian Business Magazine and I came across an Ad for EK.

That is a strong signal that EK is wanting to start operations to Canada...
what do you guys think
 
EurostarVA
Posts: 1205
Joined: Thu May 16, 2002 12:24 am

RE: Emirates Ads In Canadian Business Magazine

Sat Dec 11, 2004 2:42 pm

Exciting indeed...

Toronto would be profitable on the long run. But I heard they won't add Toronto until New York and San Fransisco are proved profitable (did they start to SFO??? excuse my ignorance there if they didnt).
If there is a will, there is a way
 
jacobin777
Posts: 12262
Joined: Sat Sep 11, 2004 6:29 pm

RE: Emirates Ads In Canadian Business Magazine

Sat Dec 11, 2004 2:45 pm

not only did they not start SFO,they removed it from their website..  Sad
"Up the Irons!"
 
EurostarVA
Posts: 1205
Joined: Thu May 16, 2002 12:24 am

RE: Emirates Ads In Canadian Business Magazine

Sat Dec 11, 2004 2:53 pm

ooops...Well I believe Toronto has a bigger market than San Fransisco. For one, the large Sub-continent community in Toronto (Indian, Pakistani) would find a Dubai connection very convenient and the fares may be competitive. The only issue is the question of yields. To the best of my knowledge, the amount and extent of construction and business in Dubai involves an increasing number of Canadian companies most of whom are based in Ontario, I would therefore conclude that yields won't be bad at all.

Hope to see an Emirates A380 in YYZ soon  Big thumbs up
If there is a will, there is a way
 
jacobin777
Posts: 12262
Joined: Sat Sep 11, 2004 6:29 pm

RE: Emirates Ads In Canadian Business Magazine

Sat Dec 11, 2004 4:19 pm

lol..not sure about the BumbleBee-380 anytime soon

do you know how the yields are on PK's 777's?

"Up the Irons!"
 
flyyul
Posts: 4394
Joined: Sun Jun 25, 2000 11:25 am

RE: Emirates Ads In Canadian Business Magazine

Sat Dec 11, 2004 4:31 pm

"Dubai involves an increasing number of Canadian companies most of whom are based in Ontario, I would therefore conclude that yields won't be bad at all."

-Prove this. I sincerely doubt it.

 
EurostarVA
Posts: 1205
Joined: Thu May 16, 2002 12:24 am

RE: Emirates Ads In Canadian Business Magazine

Sat Dec 11, 2004 6:44 pm

OK, brainstorming, I will name a few:

- SNC Lavalin (lucrative gas-related projects)
- A host of engineering and financial institutions that I cant recall.

There is a website somewhere related to the trade between the UAE and Canada...will dig it up.

Thanks

If there is a will, there is a way
 
EurostarVA
Posts: 1205
Joined: Thu May 16, 2002 12:24 am

RE: Emirates Ads In Canadian Business Magazine

Sat Dec 11, 2004 6:58 pm

FLYYUL,

Here is some information I got from a Canadian government website:

-----

Trade dominates Canada's relations with the UAE. The volume of Canadian exports to UAE reached $ CAD 224.3 million in 2000 and have been growing faster than with any other country in the Middle East and North Africa (more than fourfold since 1992). Over 40 Canadian companies have established offices in the UAE. The Embassy and Consulate are currently assisting Canadian companies in pursuing over $2 billion of projects.

The Canadian Business Councils (CBC) in Abu Dhabi and Dubai were established by Canadian companies resident in the UAE to promote trade relations and exchange of information amongst their members. The CBC in Abu Dhabi has some 75 members and the CBC in Dubai 143.

Overall relations between Canada and the UAE have been further strengthened by the increase in exchange of high-level visits such as the visit of the Governor General in March 1998, and by the Canadian Minister of International Trade and the Québec Deputy Premier in 1999.


If there is a will, there is a way
 
behramjee
Posts: 4325
Joined: Sat Aug 02, 2003 4:56 am

RE: Emirates Ads In Canadian Business Magazine

Sat Dec 11, 2004 9:53 pm

Yes we all know EK would do v well from YYZ with multiple weekly A 345s nonstop from DXB but unless they negiotiate a settlement with AC regarding how many flights they are allowed to fly to YYZ from DXB...nothing will be sure.

AC dont want EK to fly daily as they only want to fly max 4 weekly to DXB and plus GF and EY have too asked for slots at YYZ so it will be unfair for AC to compete against 3 carriers all eyeing for their East African, Indo-Pak, DEL, BOM, DAC, CMB and Arab traffic. AC carries for these 3 Gulf carriers a lot of their pax transatlantic to LHR-CDG-FRA where then they connect to the Gulf carrier via the Gulf city hub to their final destination. All in all AC feels the biggest loser here and only want EK to fly 4 weekly max and not daily.
 
EurostarVA
Posts: 1205
Joined: Thu May 16, 2002 12:24 am

RE: Emirates Ads In Canadian Business Magazine

Sat Dec 11, 2004 10:41 pm

I do not recall Air Canada as having indicated interest in serving any Middle Eastern destination eastward than Beirut. In fact, I can hardly imagine them starting a new service to the Gulf. I think it would be smarter for Air Canada to allow Emirates to develop the market, before it enters it itself a few years later. I believe that an Emirates service will run more efficiently as a daily flight and not 3-4 weekly.

Therefore I don't think Air Canada has much to loose in allowing an Emirates daily service to develop/explore the market.

If there is a will, there is a way
 
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TS-IOR
Posts: 3498
Joined: Mon Oct 08, 2001 9:44 pm

RE: Emirates Ads In Canadian Business Magazine

Sat Dec 11, 2004 11:45 pm


Why SFO and not LAX ?

Los Angeles is a bigger metropole and a bigger hub too, and the number Arabs there is more significant, AFAIK !!!
 
EK773
Posts: 178
Joined: Tue Jul 27, 2004 1:13 am

RE: Emirates Ads In Canadian Business Magazine

Sun Dec 12, 2004 3:11 am

Why is AC so heavily protected by the Canadian government? This disagreement about EK frequencies sounds similar to the spat they had many years ago with SQ. AC seems to be very scared of decent rated competition.

 
DYK
Posts: 353
Joined: Tue Jul 06, 2004 2:29 pm

RE: Emirates Ads In Canadian Business Magazine

Sun Dec 12, 2004 5:18 am

EK773

So true, typically Canadian not Air Canada!
AC,CP,PW,WD,ND,UA,AA,NW,CO,DL,WA,AS,QX,PR,SQ,AI,TG,MH,JL,9W,IC,UL,PG,BW,NZ,QF,DJ,BA,LH,KL,OA,OS,ME,RJ,HA,AQ
 
Lazionic
Posts: 21
Joined: Tue Nov 23, 2004 10:28 am

RE: Emirates Ads In Canadian Business Magazine

Sun Dec 12, 2004 6:01 am

I have also seen EK advertising in the National Post. I remember last summer EK was looking to hire filght attendants from the YYZ area. AC has DXB on thier list of future routes, from what was shown on a presentation I saw in YYZ.
Man who walk through airport turnstile sideways going to Bangkok.
 
sebring
Posts: 1320
Joined: Sat Jul 24, 2004 12:08 am

RE: Emirates Ads In Canadian Business Magazine

Sun Dec 12, 2004 6:19 am

I don't think AC is scared of any Origin-Destination competition with EK on Dubai. The issue is poaching of third country traffic. International bilateral agreements are based on the concept of balance of benefits. You give rights as good as you get. Canada-Dubai is basically an Origin-Destination route for AC, but a major hub route for EK. So where is the balance of benefits? What does AC (or any other Canadian carrier) get in exchange? The Emirates government agreed to this bilateral agreement, but not EK seems to be changing the terms. If they have a better deal to offer Canada, let them ask their government to amend the bilateral agreement.


And why does AC have to twist itself into a pretzel to accommodate EK? Let EK start the route with four frequencies. I'm sure they can make money. If they are holding out for daily service as a prerequisite for starting service, it sounds like an excuse to me. They want optimum profitability handed to them on a platter.

They should go on the route, prove its worth and stop whining.

As for the ads, keep in mind that a lot of Canadians travelling around the world fly EK as connections in Europe or Asia. The ads do not in and of themselves say a damn thing about the carrier's intentions towards Canada. I've seen ads in Canadian publications for South African Airways because you go get their flights in the U.S. It doesn't mean SAA sees Canada as a market it wants to serve directly any time soon.









 
flyyul
Posts: 4394
Joined: Sun Jun 25, 2000 11:25 am

RE: Emirates Ads In Canadian Business Magazine

Sun Dec 12, 2004 6:25 am

"SNC Lavalin (lucrative gas-related projects"

-SNC lavalin is Montreal-based.

 
sebring
Posts: 1320
Joined: Sat Jul 24, 2004 12:08 am

RE: Emirates Ads In Canadian Business Magazine

Sun Dec 12, 2004 6:55 am

I would add to my previous post that EK's bid to enter Canada with more flights than the bilateral currently allows might be helped if governments like India or Pakistan consent to more liberal access to their countries for AC. That would make the fifth freedom provisions in the current UAE-Cda bilateral meaningful to AC and thus redress the current imbalance of benefits. Or might that make EK unhappy? It seems as if EK wants everything its way. Quite often, these fifth freedom rights are included in bilateral air agreement because nobody expects them to be extensively utilized except perhaps through codesharing. Canada learned the hard way with AC's YYZ-LHR-BOM-SIN route that there is a thing as being too successful in using fifth freedom rights. Would EK be so pro-competition if AC started a Toronto-Dubai-Lahore route and actually filled the Dubai-Lahore portion with commuting Pakistani guest workers, cutting into EK's big market share there? Chances are they would not. Let Canada and India conclude an open skies agreement (they are in negotiations), and then have the UAE government waive the 50% capacity ceiling for AC on Dubai-Bombay fifth freedoms, and I bet AC wouldn't be so against daily service for EK to YYZ.







 
ETStar
Posts: 1850
Joined: Mon Jan 12, 2004 6:25 am

RE: Emirates Ads In Canadian Business Magazine

Sun Dec 12, 2004 11:24 am

You would be surprised how many travel agencies look to EK whenever one requests a fare quote to places in the indian subcontinent, middle east or africa, even though EK does not serve all places nor any single point in Canada. I know people who go to East Africa via Dubai (yes, after going to Europe using Air Canada or Ba or Lufthansa) in order to get to their final destination. Perhaps EK has a generous agent comission structure?
 
yegbey01
Posts: 1349
Joined: Wed Nov 05, 2003 11:04 am

RE: Emirates Ads In Canadian Business Magazine

Sun Dec 12, 2004 1:27 pm

Toronto based engineering/construction/consulting firms are quite involved in some really large projects in Dubai. As a matter of fact, many of teh projects at the Dubai Marina project were designed by Toronto based firms...

When I worked in Dubai 6 years ago, there was a significant contingent of Canadians in Dubai (but also in other parts of the UAE).

Would be nice to see EK here in Toronto.
 
behramjee
Posts: 4325
Joined: Sat Aug 02, 2003 4:56 am

RE: Emirates Ads In Canadian Business Magazine

Sun Dec 12, 2004 4:59 pm

Emirates should have learnt from their JFK mistakes that its not feasible to start such a long haul and possibly price conscious market with daily 260 seater flights!!! 4 weekly is fine and they shouldnt cry about it.

The vast majority of their target market pax from YYZ will be low yield ones going to NBO-DAR-ADD-LHE-ISB-KHI-INDIA-CMB-Arabia-DAC who usually scout the cheapest deal available in the market. Thats why u see Aeroflot having a considerable market share of pax on the YYZ-DEL-YYZ route!!!

If u ask me, 4 weekly DXB-YYZ-DXB A 345s for EK is absolutely fine for the time being and if they want more, well then they should lobby in the future for that using their govt's influence and other methods.
 
B747-437B
Posts: 8777
Joined: Thu May 30, 2002 6:54 am

RE: Emirates Ads In Canadian Business Magazine

Sun Dec 12, 2004 7:00 pm

Sebring, AFAIK the Canada-UAE bilateral only grants fifth-freedom rights (with the 50% capacity restriction you mention) between INTERMEDIATE POINTS and the UAE, not between the UAE and POINTS BEYOND. Hence, your points about capacity would be moot anyway.

Furthermore, the capacity restriction on 4x weekly services has long expired and there are now 6x weekly services permitted in each direction as of June 2003.

Finally, while Canada and India have been in discussions for a new Air Services Agreement for years now, neither have ever signed an open skies agreement with another country and I highly doubt they will begin now with each other.
"The A340-300 may boast a long range, but the A340 is underpowered" -- Robert Milton, CEO - Air Canada

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