hoya
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Star Alliance To Study Joint Purchase Of A350,7E7

Tue Dec 14, 2004 1:58 am

Hey all. I found this interesting article about the Star Alliance thinking of a joint purchase of the A350 and 7E7. Also, it mentions that Aeroflot and Air China may join the alliance. I cut out parts of the article that detailed the A350, which we know already, and a small part detailing the alliance's joint purchase of fuel and interline ticketing efforts.

HEADLINE: Star Alliance to 'Study' Suitableness of Airbus A350
MEDIA OUTLET: Bloomberg
BYLINE: Kyunghee Park
DATE: December 13, 2004 10:48 EST

BODY:

Dec. 13 (Bloomberg) -- Star Alliance, the world's biggest
airline grouping, said it will ``study'' the suitableness of the
A350 aircraft planned by Airbus SAS, a move that may bring 15
potential buyers to the world's largest planemaker as it develops
a model to compete with Boeing Co.'s future 7E7 airliner.
``We identified two new aircraft, the 7E7 and Airbus A350, as
the next topic for continued coordination in our group,'' Jaan
Albrecht, the chief executive officer of the 15-airline group,
said at a press conference in Bangkok today.
The seven-year-old Star Alliance, with 2,418 aircraft among
its member airlines, flies 353.2 million passengers to 133
countries every year. The Frankfurt-based group, which started
joint aircraft purchases from Airbus and Boeing in April 2003,
wants to set common employee-training standards, cut maintenance
costs and enhance the resale value of aircraft.
Deutsche Lufthansa AG and Air Canada were among Star Alliance
members saying in February that they would negotiate with Boeing
for joint purchases of the 7E7. Some members have also tried to
cut costs by jointly purchasing fuel, and a year ago the alliance
formed a company to buy fuel together, which it said may help
airlines save ``hundreds of millions of dollars'' a year.
Star also counts Chicago-based UAL Corp.'s United Airlines,
the world's second-largest carrier, and Singapore Airlines Ltd.,
Asia's most profitable carrier, as members as well as Asiana
Airlines Inc., Air New Zealand and Thai Airways International Pcl.

India, China Plans

The group is also looking at expanding with new members in
India and China, Albrecht said.
``The airlines are individually working with Indian carriers
and we have collectively approached Chinese carriers,'' he said.
``We hope to make some announcement certainly in 2005.''
Air China, which has the nation's second-largest airliner
fleet, said it's scheduled to make a decision on joining Star
Alliance after completing its initial stock trading this week. OAO
Aeroflot, Russia's state-owned carrier, is also in talks to join.
Hoya Saxa!!
 
gkpetery
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RE: Star Alliance To Study Joint Purchase Of A350,7E7

Tue Dec 14, 2004 2:19 am

Isn't Aeroflot a part of Skyteam?
 
JoFMO
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Joined: Wed Jul 14, 2004 1:55 am

RE: Star Alliance To Study Joint Purchase Of A350,7E7

Tue Dec 14, 2004 2:39 am

Aeroflot signed a MOA with Skyteam to join. Star, especially LH was lobbying hard to get them in, but they refused.
 
united4ever
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RE: Star Alliance To Study Joint Purchase Of A350,7E7

Tue Dec 14, 2004 2:40 am

"Isn't Aeroflot a part of Skyteam?"

I don't think it is just yet, though I thought it had already agreed to join.

Mike
 
columba
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RE: Star Alliance To Study Joint Purchase Of A350,

Tue Dec 14, 2004 2:44 am

I could think of them buying both : the A350 for long haul as a A330 and A340 replacement at Air Canada, US AIrways (if they survive) and Lufthansa and the 7e7-3 as a 767 domestic and A300 replacement.
It will forever be a McDonnell Douglas MD 80 , Boeing MD 80 sounds so wrong
 
DfwRevolution
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RE: Star Alliance To Study Joint Purchase Of A350,

Tue Dec 14, 2004 4:14 am

Is this to follow the amazing success of the RJ joint purchase?  Smile
 
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N328KF
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RE: Star Alliance To Study Joint Purchase Of A350,

Tue Dec 14, 2004 4:19 am

DfwRevolution:

And following this will be a joint An-225 purchase for Star Cargo.
When they call the roll in the Senate, the Senators do not know whether to answer 'Present' or 'Not guilty.' -Theodore Roosevelt
 
scotron11
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RE: Star Alliance To Study Joint Purchase Of A350,

Tue Dec 14, 2004 4:22 am

Hey, if the get some Chinese carriers maybe they'll rename themsellves "Red Star Alliance"! LOL
 
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N328KF
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RE: Star Alliance To Study Joint Purchase Of A350,

Tue Dec 14, 2004 4:26 am

Scotron11:

No, that would be Aeroflot. They even have the hammer and sickle:

When they call the roll in the Senate, the Senators do not know whether to answer 'Present' or 'Not guilty.' -Theodore Roosevelt
 
scotron11
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RE: Star Alliance To Study Joint Purchase Of A350,

Tue Dec 14, 2004 4:29 am

Point taken. I was more alluding to Red China (forgot about Russia). Thanks!
 
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scbriml
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RE: Star Alliance To Study Joint Purchase Of A350,7E7

Tue Dec 14, 2004 8:49 am

suitableness

WTF is suitableness?

My guess is this study will go the way of the previous efforts at joint fleet purchasing.  Insane
Time flies like an arrow. Fruit flies like a banana!
 
FriendlySkies
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RE: Star Alliance To Study Joint Purchase Of A350,7E7

Tue Dec 14, 2004 9:44 am

This isn't going to go anywhere...remember the "study" of the joint purchase of RJs (or was it 717s)...it's a load of BS.
 
backfire
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RE: Star Alliance To Study Joint Purchase Of A350,7E7

Tue Dec 14, 2004 5:36 pm

Surely Aeroflot would have to join 'Tsar' Alliance? Big grin
 
Planesmart
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RE: Star Alliance To Study Joint Purchase Of A350,7E7

Tue Dec 14, 2004 8:31 pm

I've had first-hand experience of attempts to co-ordinate purchasing in the industry, and the theory is always better than the practice.

Agreeing the theory is great fun, and will require meetings in locations conducive to teamwork, like Barbados, Mauritius, HongKong (when the Sevens are in town), Monte Carlo.

Undoubtedly the waistlines of all those involved will increase. Unfortunately, this is likely to be the sum total of the co-ordination.

The same results could be achieved over a coffee in MacD.
 
zvezda
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RE: Star Alliance To Study Joint Purchase Of A350,

Wed Dec 15, 2004 12:09 am

"WTF is suitableness?"

One may assume he meant "suitability".
 
planemaker
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RE: Star Alliance To Study Joint Purchase Of A350,7E7

Sat Dec 18, 2004 3:36 am

Now both Aviation Now and FI also have articles reporting that Star Alliance will set out a joint specification.

Jaan Albrecht (Star CEO) said that at the Star meeting in Thailand all 15 members and candidate airlines of Star agreed to joint specification for each aircraft, in a bid to "reduce parts, maintenance and acquisition price."

He says that both Airbus and Boeing are behind this, "as it means fewer technical drawings, shorter lead times and less inventory for them."

In addition to ANA and ANZ, 6 or 7 other Star airlines interested in one or both of the aircraft will join a working group set up to define the specifications. However, Albrecht said that ANA and ANZ may suffer delays in their 7E7 acquisition programme, as both are “fairly well advanced” in specifying configuration.

A joint specification for the A380 was rejected due to differing views.
Nationalism is an infantile disease. It is the measles of mankind. - A. Einstein
 
ZKOJH
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RE: Star Alliance To Study Joint Purchase Of A350,7E7

Sat Dec 18, 2004 4:20 am

ANZ will be sticking with boeing in the longhaul, they have 2 7e7 frames on order and options on another 16, and that leaves 26 options on tripple sevens both 200 and 300 er, and plus anzes, are hoping to help out design some materals for the 7e7, which will see them play a good player in the 7e7 program..
Vietnam time..
 
Planesmart
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RE: Star Alliance To Study Joint Purchase Of A350,7E7

Sat Dec 18, 2004 4:42 am

ZKOJH
ANZ will be sticking with boeing in the longhaul, they have 2 7e7 frames on order and options on another 16, and that leaves 26 options on tripple sevens both 200 and 300 er, and plus anzes, are hoping to help out design some materals for the 7e7, which will see them play a good player in the 7e7 program.

Have ANZ paid a non-refundable, non-transferrable deposit on the 2x 7e7? Have they appointed a project manager to firm up design/layout with a team from engineering, ground support, mktg, pnl, etc?

Super conservative, sensible ANZ wouldn't order a virtual plane. This is an order at the request of B, as flag flying for the Star Alliance, and reward for the composite repair contract.
 
DfwRevolution
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RE: Star Alliance To Study Joint Purchase Of A350,

Sat Dec 18, 2004 4:56 am

Have ANZ paid a non-refundable, non-transferrable deposit on the 2x 7e7?

The order has been firmed according to both Boeing and AirNZ, so I would think some sort of non-refundable deposit has been payed. Aircraft are (almsost) never totally payed for when the order is firmed... they usually finance or pay in stages...

Super conservative, sensible ANZ wouldn't order a virtual plane

It's not that "virtual," 90% design work complete with production of the prototype model to begin in roughly 12 months.....
 
Planesmart
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RE: Star Alliance To Study Joint Purchase Of A350,7E7

Sat Dec 18, 2004 5:09 am

DfwRevolution

Have ANZ paid a non-refundable, non-transferrable deposit on the 2x 7e7?

"The order has been firmed according to both Boeing and AirNZ, so I would think some sort of non-refundable deposit has been payed."

Orders at this stage of a model development are usually supported by a very small, refundable, transferrable deposit. The order will have 2 further decision points, where the airline is asked to firm up it's requirements and increase the size of their deposit. Only at the next point does the deposit become non-refundable, and at the 3rd point does it become non-transferrable.

Super conservative, sensible ANZ wouldn't order a virtual plane

"It's not that "virtual," 90% design work complete with production of the prototype model to begin in roughly 12 months....."

As far as bankers and financiers are concerned, it is a virtual plane. When it's flying, the airframe and engines have met performance targets, with a production committment by the manufacturer to the model variant ordered by the financiers customers, then it is not a virtual plane.

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