jacobin777
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US Airways Flight Attendants Ready For Strike

Tue Dec 14, 2004 8:42 am

Uh oh..not looking good...so it all boils down to what the Federal Court decides regarding the voiding of the contract.

full story at...

http://biz.yahoo.com/rb/041213/airlines_usairways_1.html
"Up the Irons!"
 
legendDC9
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Tue Dec 14, 2004 8:48 am

Ya... Good luck with that. I hope Taco Bell is hiring.
 
SonOfACaptain
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Tue Dec 14, 2004 8:53 am

Studid, stupid, stupid, stupid, stupid, stupid, stupid, stupid, stupid, stupid, stupid, stupid, stupid, stupid, stupid, stupid, stupid, stupid, stupid, stupid, stupid, stupid, stupid, STUPID!!!!!!!!

What the heck are they thinking, it makes no sense. If they don't want to fly in their situation, then quit, because if they strike, they are going to be out of a job anyway. USE COMMEN SENSE here people.

-SOAC
Non Illegitimi Carborundum
 
jacobin777
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Tue Dec 14, 2004 9:03 am

I have a mixed view on this...but I think most will agree there is too much overcapacity still....and a few aircarriers will have to go before this situation begins to clear itself up......its not fair to the people who are on the short end of it, but thats how capitalism works in the end....even though the Govt. mostly obfuscates and hinders the obvious
"Up the Irons!"
 
legendDC9
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Tue Dec 14, 2004 9:15 am

There is deffinitly over capacity in the market which is very tough on the airlines. However, to see a workgroup inside one of these struggling airlines to draw out the blade, ready to slash their collective wrist on this, is truly amazing to me. When union work groups control your fate it's not capitalism at all, It's socialism. Power to the people...
 
jettatco
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US Airways Flight Attendants Ready For Strike

Tue Dec 14, 2004 9:33 am

If management is allowed to void contracts, maybe the pay at Taco Bell will be better, They are not standing up for their jobs, they know it's a lost cause, they are protecting the rest of our jobs. I hail them!
 
nwa757300
Posts: 176
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US Airways Flight Attendants Ready For Strike

Tue Dec 14, 2004 10:42 am

With management cancelling pension plans, mandating massive paycuts and cutting medical benefits for retirees. What do the employees have to loose? Management is taking away everything that made their jobs careers.
 
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ERJ170
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Tue Dec 14, 2004 12:06 pm

With management cancelling pension plans, mandating massive paycuts and cutting medical benefits for retirees. What do the employees have to loose?

Hmm.. whatever paycheck they are currently receiving... their homes.. their cars.. their medical.. their dental.. their savings.. their retirement.. any respect from the fellow groups... any benefits for retirees.. EVERYTHING!!!.. what airline is going to hair the tens of thousands of people that will no longer be working?
Aiming High and going far..
 
jacobin777
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Tue Dec 14, 2004 12:15 pm

its called "scaling" back..its unfortunate, and many have to and will need to do it.....

not good for the broader economy, but we cant have capitalism work with all this govt. heavy-handedness......its time that we let the capital system work itself out.......

its plainly obvious there is overcapacity....and until this overcapacity is not finished, it will be a sloooooow bleed.....

sorry, but this is the (unwanted) side-effects of capitalism.......

want socialism, go back to North Korea..........I'll take capitalism anyday over it..
"Up the Irons!"
 
WesternA318
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Tue Dec 14, 2004 12:26 pm

I'm going to side with Jacobin777 in this case. But to be more blunt about my opinion, I'm sick of hearing these second-rate F/A's think they are going to save an airline that doesn't give a s**t about them in either case by striking against them. It just gives management more ammo to take to the bankruptcy judge. and I hope NO AIRLINE hires former US strikers. As Jacobin777 says, "want socialism, go back to North Korea..........I'll take capitalism anyday over it.." I agree wholeheartedly. If you want to strike, bi**h and complain, and piss and whine over it, go to Greece (that's where I'm from, and people there KNOW how to complain, even though the strikes there don't do jack for the strikers).
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DC10GUY
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US Airways Flight Attendants Ready For Strike

Tue Dec 14, 2004 12:30 pm

I support the US air Flight attendants 100 % .... And most of all thank them for standing up for f/a's everywhere !!!
Next time try the old "dirty Sanchez" She'll love it !!!
 
DfwRevolution
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Tue Dec 14, 2004 12:33 pm

The fact of the matter is, while the industry is doing badly, US Airways is doing exceptionally bad. You can't defend US as a viable company because they aren't. They might have nice people, but the airline has been doomed to fail for a long long while... the writing was on the wall years ago. Their entire strategy has been flawed since the start... let's just be glad it's almost over.
 
WesternA318
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Tue Dec 14, 2004 12:35 pm

I couldnt have said it better myself, dfwrevolution.
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isp
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US Airways Flight Attendants Ready For Strike

Tue Dec 14, 2004 12:35 pm

WesternA318:

Your views are off base & rude. US F/A's are far from "second-rate" - they are the finest in the industry.

If they do strike, they may be protecting wages for their peers in the industry. The same peers such as UA F/A's, who were seen spitting on US F/A's in SFO during the planned failed merger of 2000. I would say that is quite a sacrifice to make.

Support the US workgroups in any way you can.
 
WesternA318
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Tue Dec 14, 2004 12:57 pm

You're absolutely right, it was rude. But I meant it, and no one else stifles their opinions, lol. I will refuse to support US UA or DL F/A's, or pilots, respectively.
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ual777contrail
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US Airways Flight Attendants Ready For Strike

Tue Dec 14, 2004 1:15 pm

WesternA318,
You said in an earlier thread "I haven't flown on UA since the summer of 94, and it was bad then, I can't IMAGINE what it's like now."

In your profile you are 21-25, giving the benefit of the doubt, that would have made you 15 years old since 94' and you were a connoisseur of aviation even at that age? Most 15 year olds are worried about girls and sports, and you were unhappy with UAL even as far back as 94'? Wow, we really must suck.

I will refuse to support US UA or DL F/A's, or pilots, respectively.

Sad, a little heavy metal guy doesn't support 3 majors. Nuts
Lots of laughs, western

UAL 777 CONTRAILS
 
PacificWestern
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US Airways Flight Attendants Ready For Strike

Tue Dec 14, 2004 1:17 pm

I have no opinion for or against the decision of the FAs to strike. What they do won't affect me either way. But I would like ask a couple of questions to the posters...

Have any of you ever worked for US Air and know what it's like to walk in the shoes of any of their employees so as to make your judgements? It's always much more fun to be the one throwing the scalding water than to be the one who is receiving it in the face.

And as I'm just some dumb Canadian, I am unaware of so many laws in the United States, but do the FAs still have the legal right to strike? If so, gosh, how dare they exercise their legal rights.

It's interesting to read so much hostility directed at a group of people whom none of you know personally....other than the fact that they don't fall in line with your own particular political beliefs. I'm sure many of you bemoan the fact that if the FAs do go on strike, they can't be punished by being hanged, or getting a bullet in their heads.

 
jacobin777
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US Airways Flight Attendants Ready For Strike

Tue Dec 14, 2004 1:20 pm

I dont think WesternA318 comments are not off base or rude, he's expressing his opinion....

it seems only lately that F/A's for US Aircarriers are getting better because they know that their jobs are on the line.......its nice to see alot of that flippin' attitude go away....though I still see it time to time


don't see it too often on International flights, though I did see some bad F/A's on a VS flight from ORD-LHR...
"Up the Irons!"
 
Usairwys757
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US Airways Flight Attendants Ready For Strike

Tue Dec 14, 2004 1:23 pm

What do I do guys, I have to fly US on the 30th of December? Should I cancel and rebook with DL or AA??????

I am in a REAL DILEMMA! HELP!
Inactive.....
 
WesternA318
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Tue Dec 14, 2004 1:24 pm

UAL777,

I have been an airline NUT since about the age of 8, and overly interested since the first time I remember being at the airport maybe when I was what, 4-5? Those 3 majors don't have my support for a multitude of reasons. By the time I was 15, I had a nice little list of airlines to avoid flying again, as well as favorites. I never did worry about girls or sports, even now I don't, sports are for jocks, and if I find a girl, great, if not, better, as then my thrice-weekly flying will not be bothered, lol. I love my jobs too much to worry about petty stuff like that. i take my airline career too serious for most people, especially some woman who doesn't understand this obsession, lol.
Check out my blog at fl310travel.blogspot.com!
 
jacobin777
Posts: 12262
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US Airways Flight Attendants Ready For Strike

Tue Dec 14, 2004 1:33 pm

I do not see US Airways ceasing operations right away, there will most probably be an "announcement" period like ATA has done......

not sure about the ffmileage though.....  Sad
"Up the Irons!"
 
AA717driver
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US Airways Flight Attendants Ready For Strike

Tue Dec 14, 2004 1:40 pm

Why should the U employees continue to help Bronner and the creditors recoup their bad investments by working for Taco Bell wages?

And, yes, I've been there. I worked for Icahn and it got to where we were willing to burn TWA down to keep Ichan from getting one more penny.

Good luck to the only crewmembers with any balls at U!TC
FL450, M.85
 
WesternA318
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Tue Dec 14, 2004 1:45 pm

"And, yes, I've been there. I worked for Icahn and it got to where we were willing to burn TWA down to keep Ichan from getting one more penny."

Amen, AA77driver! I was there as well, and I hope we personally never deal with that again.
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BIGBlack
Posts: 583
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US Airways Flight Attendants Ready For Strike

Tue Dec 14, 2004 1:45 pm

The good people of US have been good to me and bashing everyone at US, UA, and DL is ignorant especially from you junior.



[Edited 2004-12-14 05:50:43]
Someone special in the air
 
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mariner
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US Airways Flight Attendants Ready For Strike

Tue Dec 14, 2004 1:48 pm

Jacobin:

(i) Strikes are part of the capitalist system. There are certain conditions attached to them (the Railway Labor Act), but workers in this capitalist society have the eventual right to strike.

(ii) There is a difference between socialism and communism.

(iii) North Korea is not a socialist country, it is a communist country.

(iv) Strikes are forbidden in communist countries.

cheers

mariner
aeternum nauta
 
jacobin777
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Tue Dec 14, 2004 2:06 pm

Mariner.......touche...you got me on (iii), hence (ii) and (iv), I should have used the term "communism" or at the very least, Union of Soviet Socialist Republic.....good catch and I stand corrected!  Big grin


i wasn't arguing about point(i) because point (i) does exists, and they do have an eventual right to strike, but not a right to treat passengers like dog **** and sport an attitude...

there are terms called "professionalism" and "courteousness", and thats what I was referring to...

F/A's jobs by design/default have to deal with people, if they can't deal with people, then they shouldn't be F/A's..
"Up the Irons!"
 
tcfc424
Posts: 444
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US Airways Flight Attendants Ready For Strike

Tue Dec 14, 2004 2:19 pm

Refusing to fly DL because of what is going on with the F/A's at US and UA is exceptionally interesting to me. The reason that is, Western, is that DL F/A's are NOT UNION...they are regular employees...if you have been "an aviation connoiseur for 15 years or so, you would KNOW that. Now, to the subject matter at hand...the pending US F/A strike...

As I have stated before, I feel that the US F/A's are well within their rights to strike, and for us (us being non-US F/A's) we are not qualified to decide if this strike is necessary or not. As someone has mentioned earlier, we have not walked in their shoes or given back what they have...nor have we felt the effects of US management. Not being a US employee, I cannot say what it is like. I do feel that an F/A strike, ala CHAOS is not exactly the trick to save an airline, but from what I have read and understand, for the employees it doesn't seem there is much to save. Perhaps, and I repeat my stance on this, they are simply trying to end the life support US is on and allow themselves a (possibly) better chance to have a true career with a carrier that fills the gaps US leaves behind when they cease to exist. Some people may shun me because they have many FF miles and are loyal to the carrier, but the airline is in a precarious situation that seems to only be getting worse. Just like a person, an airline can only bleed so much before everything stops working. It may not be the right thing for the F/A's to decide the fates of the airline and so many tens of thousands of US employees, but it may be the best thing in the long run.

Western, I have more or less agreed with you in this topic, though I shy away from being as blatant and rude about it, and I am not trying to belittle you, but you really should have known that DL's F/A's are not unionized...they held a vote about a year to a year and a half ago and failed to unionize. There were circumstances surrounding that vote about management's role in altering the outcomes, and I am by no means a DL supporter...avoid them if I can but your reasons for condemning the airline are errant. Also, from what I saw in my flights on UA in 2002 and 2003, UA has only deteriorated. I remember flying them when I was younger...say 12-15 and I really enjoyed the airline...to me they were what airlines should strive to be...now they are the example of what not to be. For me, its CO and AA all the way, with a little WN thrown in for comic relief.

Mike S. in AUS
 
wbmech
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US Airways Flight Attendants Ready For Strike

Tue Dec 14, 2004 2:22 pm

DC10guy,

I too support the US fa's 100%. They are not only standing up for themselves and other fa's in the industry, but also for the rest of our union brothers who are too weak to put up a fight. The airlines are union busting, plain and simple. They are using the bankruptcy courts to do this. If US workers concede without a fight then the whole industry is doomed.
 
AA767400
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US Airways Flight Attendants Ready For Strike

Tue Dec 14, 2004 3:30 pm

Why do these topics always end up on how rude "Flight Attendants" are, and how they all deserve to be working at Taco Bell?

WesternA318, How the heck were you there? Did you work for TW? Talk is cheap, people. In the long run, These Flight Attendants have no freaking choice. They have been put threw it, and this is pretty much the last stand. They know where it will end up. And they accept that. It's takes a lot of balls to do what they are doing. And they won't be going to Taco Bell, I can tell you that. You act like these people have no education what SO ever.
"The low fares airline."
 
WesternA318
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Tue Dec 14, 2004 3:32 pm

Tcfc424,

DL's F/A's are not the reason I don;'t fly them, I have many MOE reasons for not flying DL. Their F/A's don't have a part in it. Those are just the three majors I refuse to support, although I gladly pay well over $600 more to avoid those three airlines if I can. CO, AA, HP, F9, and FL get my money when I fly. DL is the dominant carrier here in SLC, and I've just had too many things go wrong on pretty much every flight I've had with them.

"we have not walked in their shoes or given back what they have...nor have we felt the effects of US management"

Too true on that one, but I know what it is like working for a dying company, I was at TWA from 1996 until the end. At least our unions in the end came to their sense and tried to work with the airline. I hope the US folks can as well. But right now, it seems like they can't.
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burnsie28
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US Airways Flight Attendants Ready For Strike

Tue Dec 14, 2004 3:37 pm

NA NA NA NA NA, NA NA NA NA, HEY HEY HEY, GOODBYE

Actually it might be smart, if US goes someone will have to pick up a bit of the slack, and airlines improving once again, could only mean they are protecting their future at a different airline, while it may take a couple years to see the effects, it just might be the case. Also, it might be a while before any young inspiring pilots get jobs at majors, im sure some of those Ex. US guys would be first in line at others, with CO and NW most likely rehiring no later then 2006.
 
frugalqxnwa
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US Airways Flight Attendants Ready For Strike

Tue Dec 14, 2004 3:58 pm

I certainly appreciate that US f/a are feeling a real financial pinch with the givebacks they have been forced to swallow since 9/11. However, I believe that if they strike they will utterly destroy US Airways within weeks or months of the strike, the same as Eastern Airlines was destroyed by striking union members. I will admit that sometimes it comes to the point where an airline may need to be destroyed by a strike because of mismanagement and that I do nto have all the facts, but from what I have seen this may not be the time yet.

Good luck to US Airways and US employees of every department, I certainly hope US can fly high and proud again.
 
DeltaGuy
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US Airways Flight Attendants Ready For Strike

Tue Dec 14, 2004 4:13 pm

But to be more blunt about my opinion, I'm sick of hearing these second-rate F/A's think they are going to save an airline that doesn't give a s**t about them in either case by striking against them

You're absolutely right, it was rude. But I meant it, and no one else stifles their opinions, lol. I will refuse to support US UA or DL F/A's, or pilots, respectively.


Once again Western, your ignorance is shown well in yet another thread. Those F/A's work as hard, or harder, than most of their peers at other carriers, AND do it for alot less/with alot less. They can't help that their airline is woefully sucking right now. They're still very qualified crewmembers.

So you don't support F/A's AND pilots huh? Man, what do you stand for? Who's gonna operate your next flight? US's crewmembers have every right to take the actions they're undertaking- if anything, it'll help speed up the inevatable. Thanks for not being a productive and supportive member of the community.

DeltaGuy
"The cockpit, what is it?" "It's the little room in the front of the plane where the pilot sits, but that's not importan
 
burnsie28
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US Airways Flight Attendants Ready For Strike

Tue Dec 14, 2004 4:22 pm

I agree with DeltaGuy, while the industry will take a little while 4-5 more years, before its POSSIBLE that airline employees will see that in which they had pre 9/11 for the mean time, its not going to happen, US employees are working for next to nothing, granted its not less then those flipping burgers, but even the pilots are getting close to that pay, who would want to go to school and actually have some knowledge to fly a plane, when you could go work at McDonalds and ask "would you like fries with that" for the same amount of pay as at the airlines, in fact, right now, im willing to bet some burger flippers make more a year then most US employee's, granted they work more hours, but when you can only work so many hours according to law, then its hard to make any more.

I stand by the US F/A's here, it may actually help them and the pilots in the long run, with getting jobs at other airlines and getting paid quite a bit more. I just feel bad that it might take some time to get it all sorted out, and that so many US pilots were laid off, after all, all the pilots at one time was a Captain, and their most junior First Officer was hired in ------> 1988<----- WOW. Hopefully many of them will find news homes at the likes of NW or CO in the closer future, or many other airlines for that matter. So really if it plays out to be that, the strike by the F/A's isnt so stupid after all.
 
WesternA318
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US Airways Flight Attendants Ready For Strike

Tue Dec 14, 2004 4:25 pm

You know, it usually takes Burnsie to straighten me out, lol.

You are correct burnsie, if US tanks, may the best crews o to AA, CO, F9, FL and the others.
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NW747-400
Posts: 366
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US Airways Flight Attendants Ready For Strike

Tue Dec 14, 2004 10:36 pm

US was a great company before 9/11, but the F/A's know its coming to an end whether they strike or not. If and when they strike, they will not be saving their current jobs; they will be helping to save other airlines' employees by scaring management away from these tremendous cutbacks as long as possible.

Good luck US employees, and thank you for supporting all of us airline employees. You will be able to breathe easier when you get a new job with a good, financially viable company when the market turns around soon.
 
supa7E7
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US Airways Flight Attendants Ready For Strike

Tue Dec 14, 2004 10:57 pm

This thread is total crap. More likely the FAs will still strike a deal in the coming days. They are not into romantic seppuku like so many of you boys are.

Burnsie, thanks for writing the conventional wisdom yet again, but airline jobs are still better than McD's. In fact, "average" US employees make as much in pay as 3 McDonald's workers (around $16-18). They also get medical, dental, and flight privileges. It's a good deal for a HS degree work; among the very best HS degree jobs in the USA. I invite you to find a better one. Working for GM, that's about the only one I can think of.

And to say a jet pilot who makes over $100k (as all US pilots still do) is in the poor house is a bit naive. Go get a job, then talk.
"Who's to say spaceships aren't fine art?" - Phil Lesh
 
PHLBOS
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US Airways Flight Attendants Ready For Strike

Tue Dec 14, 2004 11:21 pm

NA NA NA NA NA, NA NA NA NA, HEY HEY HEY, GOODBYE

Burnsie28,

You may want to re-hum that tune to yourself. I think you have an extra 'NA' and 'HEY'.  Laugh out loud

US was a great company before 9/11

NW747-400,

Oh really, than explain the outright willingness of US to be taken over by UA one year before 9/11. In retrospect, that merger would've been a jobs disaster for Pennsylvania... even if 9/11 didn't occur. I've said it before on a few other threads and I will say it again. Had the UA merger gone through, 9/11 or no 9/11, there was no way that they were going to keep 3 full hub operations (IAD, PHL, PIT) that were no more than 300 miles from each other open in the long term. The 3 hub operations would have been consolidated into IAD, where there is room for runway and terminal expansion.

To make a long story short, since the UA merger was shot down; there hasn't been any true focus or vision on US' part as towards what type of airline they want to be nor a willingness for them to survive beyond the status quo.
"TransEastern! You'll feel like you've never left the ground because we treat you like dirt!" SNL Parady ad circa 1981
 
ckfred
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US Airways Flight Attendants Ready For Strike

Wed Dec 15, 2004 12:35 am

First of all, I'm not sure that the strike is legal. I know that the "cooling-off" provisions of the Railway Labor Act didn't envision a bankruptcy court imposing changes to a collective-bargaining agreement, but by striking, the F/As could not only sink US, but US and its creditors could seek damages from the union.

Remember, AA got a lot of money from APA because of the sick-out over Reno Air.

I don't blame the F/As being being mad over the many rounds of wage cuts, benefit cuts, and loss of pensions. To a large degree, US was a carrier that wasn't as finacially stable as AA and DL, because of decisions made over the years by management. For instance, how much of PSA's routes structure was being flown 5 years after the merger? Very little, thanks to WN.

US would have been better off to save that money and use it to improve itself throughout the rest of its system.

But, if the F/As strike, there won't be any carrier left. That might be good for the industry in the long run, but it's bad for every US employee that doesn't go on strike.
 
exFATboy
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US Airways Flight Attendants Ready For Strike

Wed Dec 15, 2004 1:00 am

I'd like to think that the average FA at US realizes that striking could be the end of the airline. I don't know if it's just that they are so frustrated with management that they're willing to destroy UA out of spite if they don't win, or if this is just a bargaining ploy at this point.

I don't think US is going to survive, whether the FAs take the pay cut or strike - too many cumulative mistakes by management. Having been laid off twice in my life, I feel for the employees, but it might be better in the long run for them and for the airline industry if US failed and got it over with. PHLBOS is right - US management has not had a clear vision for the carrier since the UA merger attempt failed. Actually, I'd argue it goes back further, all the way back to the PSA merger - that was US' shot at beginning to evolve into a true national airline...they're really just a (larger) East Coast version of Alaska, but without AS' lucrative Alaskan routes.
 
legendDC9
Posts: 458
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US Airways Flight Attendants Ready For Strike

Wed Dec 15, 2004 1:22 am

How exactly are the US F/A's striking protects other F/A groups? So the airline is having to take away money, pension plans and probably change some work rules in order to survive. If they don't feel it's right, they are free to leave the company. This is a new era, the money will never be the same and by striking and giving the company one final blow accomplishes nothing. It's not as if by fighting US management they are going to save the company. So I'll repeat, let management try and restructure, if you don't like it, you are free to go home. The bottom line is this, the only way this is in any way a help to other F/A groups is that when US finally fails and capacity is reduced, prices start moving up, other airlines will be in better shape. However, I seriously doubt that if it is the F/A's that deliver the end of USairways, that any of them would get hired by any other carrier.
 
AA717driver
Posts: 1502
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US Airways Flight Attendants Ready For Strike

Wed Dec 15, 2004 1:31 am

Ckfred--I don't know the exact mechanism but if a company uses 1113 to void or change the labor agreements in bankrutpcy, the employees have the right to "self help". This is different than the normal RLA-mandated progression toward self help.TC
FL450, M.85
 
elwood64151
Posts: 2410
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US Airways Flight Attendants Ready For Strike

Wed Dec 15, 2004 1:44 am

There is deffinitly over capacity in the market which is very tough on the airlines. However, to see a workgroup inside one of these struggling airlines to draw out the blade, ready to slash their collective wrist on this, is truly amazing to me. When union work groups control your fate it's not capitalism at all, It's socialism. Power to the people...

Whilst I agree the union is doing more harm than good these days, I don't agree that there is over capacity. If there were, you wouldn't see the LCCs expanding.

I believe that the real problem with legacy carriers is their insistence upon not using their equipment efficiently in order to guarantee the maximum number of connecting passengers at their hubs. As a result, they are not getting as many flights out of their aircraft each day, and costs per flight are higher. With more flights, even at lower prices, they have the potential to make more money.

However, a strake at US virtually guarantees bankruptcy and liquidation.

If they do strike, they may be protecting wages for their peers in the industry. The same peers such as UA F/A's, who were seen spitting on US F/A's in SFO during the planned failed merger of 2000. I would say that is quite a sacrifice to make.

The only way they protect UA employees by striking is by ensuring that UA will have more passengers the day after US ceases operations and liquidates.

Even if US employees do strike and US survives, it does nothing to solve the inherent problems the airlines have of too high costs and not enough revenue.

Have any of you ever worked for US Air and know what it's like to walk in the shoes of any of their employees so as to make your judgements? It's always much more fun to be the one throwing the scalding water than to be the one who is receiving it in the face.

No, but when I worked at AirTran, I trained with or worked with many of their former and current employees. And in no way am I "throwing the scalding water." I respect US's employees, but striking is not going to solve their problems.

And as I'm just some dumb Canadian, I am unaware of so many laws in the United States, but do the FAs still have the legal right to strike? If so, gosh, how dare they exercise their legal rights.

Not all legal rights are necessarily intelligent actions. I have the legal right to open my mouth (or type on my keyboard), but that doesn't mean everything I'm communicating is intelligent.

It's interesting to read so much hostility directed at a group of people whom none of you know personally....other than the fact that they don't fall in line with your own particular political beliefs.

Again, it's not political. It's a reality viewpoint about how business and the economy works.

Why should the U employees continue to help Bronner and the creditors recoup their bad investments by working for Taco Bell wages?

Because the creditors have every legal and moral right to that money. Remember, a lot of that money went to those wonderful salaries and benefits that the FAs want so bad.

The reason that is, Western, is that DL F/A's are NOT UNION

Uh, he did mention pilots respectively, which would put FAs into the US/UA column and pilots into the DL column; DL has been having issues with their pilot union as of late.

As someone has mentioned earlier, we have not walked in their shoes or given back what they have...

No, I didn't give back what they have. I gave back less, because I never had what they had. The company I worked for still went under.

They can't help that their airline is woefully sucking right now.

Sure they can. All they have to do is be the nicest people they know how to be to each and every customer, within the limits of what the airline will allow them to give away. That's how companies earn good marks for customer service.

they will be helping to save other airlines' employees by scaring management away from these tremendous cutbacks as long as possible.

Who's scaring management? If the employees strike and the companies go under, it's a free ride for the executives to their next job. "Oh, I couldn't do anything. I had ungrateful employees who sabotaged my restructuring plan." And the gleefully take a six-figure job at another company. Meanwhile, the employees are in the unemployment line.

Working for GM, that's about the only one I can think of.

No. Those jobs are in Mexico.

You may want to re-hum that tune to yourself. I think you have an extra 'NA' and 'HEY'.

No, only an extra "NA."

But, if the F/As strike, there won't be any carrier left. That might be good for the industry in the long run, but it's bad for every US employee that doesn't go on strike.

No, it's good for the industry in the short-term. In the long-run, it allows the legacies to skate by on their bloated cost structures and inefficient operations.



Look, management is to blame for the condition of the airline, there is no question about that. But a strike while the company is teetering on the brink of liquidation is so stupid I'm amazed I have to say it.

Take a temporary wage cut (and spell it out in the contract that the wage cut is entirely temporary), let the company come back from the brink, and then work on improving conditions for the employees.

Believe me, I know what it's like to be an employee who is forced to work harder with less help and getting less pay for it. I worked for Vanguard, God Dammit, and that's all we ever knew! So nobody tell me that I don't understand their plight, because they don't know what I went through. They have no idea. But they definetely will if they choose to strike.
Those who fail to learn history are doomed to repeat it in summer school.
 
rwylie77
Posts: 322
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RE: US Air Flight Attendants Ready For Strike

Wed Dec 15, 2004 1:50 am

Well, I will no longer fly with US Airways...I will never fly with an airline who's employees strike as they obviously don't care about their company or their customers and just themselves.
 
N867BX
Posts: 295
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RE: US Airways Flight Attendants Ready For Strike

Wed Dec 15, 2004 1:55 am

Lotsa talk in this thread about US employees flippin burgers or workin at Taco Bell. What makes you think they could KEEP a job at Taco Bell without union protection.

Don't be so quick to blame US management. While I am certain that they have made mistakes, one needs to also look at the union and its idiotic work rules that make US an inefficient carrier regardless of pay rates.
 
ATLhomeCMH
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RE: US Airways Flight Attendants Ready For Strike

Wed Dec 15, 2004 2:01 am

When, exactly, are the Feds supposed to rule on the contracts? Before the holidays?

If they end up striking during the holidays, they might as well just hang it up. That would completely ruin them.

Either way you look at it, its a catch-22 and a bad situation all around.
"The most terrifying words in the Engligh language are, 'I'm from the government and I'm here to help.'"-Ronald Reagan
 
legendDC9
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RE: US Air Flight Attendants Ready For Strike

Wed Dec 15, 2004 2:01 am

Elwood64151, nice thesis :P
The only thing I disagree with you is this:

"Whilst I agree the union is doing more harm than good these days, I don't agree that there is over capacity. If there were, you wouldn't see the LCCs expanding."

The LCC's are expanding because the legacy carriers are slow and inefficient ,which is partly a result of years of commiting to higher pay and stricter work rules, (blame both the company and unions for not looking long term). For the LCC's it's simple, They would rather not and make more money, but they can afford to put out these $39 fares, the majors can't. However, if there was a more demand for that capacity, the legacy carriers could just keep their high prices, but since there are so many seats in the air these days, they are forced to match fares to be able to get any sort of income.
 
ual777contrail
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RE: US Airways Flight Attendants Ready For Strike

Wed Dec 15, 2004 2:55 am

I don't know if anybody working for airlines have heard, The unions AFA/IAM and such are trying organize a complete shut down for one day. They want UAL flight attendants who are never happy with anything to walk if the US F/A's walk. They are talking with AA/DL/NW flight attendants as well. Their reason? They are trying to recruit F/A's from various if not all US carriers telling them, if it happens to us it will happen to you. It is time to show our leaders(management) we wont stand for this kind of treatment anymore. So in the long run, it would be wise for AA/DL/NW to follow suit, it would put US/UA out of business.

UAL 777 CONTRAIL
 
gigneil
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RE: US Airways Flight Attendants Ready For Strike

Wed Dec 15, 2004 2:58 am


If they do strike, they may be protecting wages for their peers in the industry.


I assure you, that's not what's on their mind.

N
 
elwood64151
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RE: US Airways Flight Attendants Ready For Strike

Wed Dec 15, 2004 3:09 am

They would rather not and make more money, but they can afford to put out these $39 fares, the majors can't. However, if there was a more demand for that capacity, the legacy carriers could just keep their high prices, but since there are so many seats in the air these days, they are forced to match fares to be able to get any sort of income.

Actually, that's exactly my point: By offering more flights with the existing assets they own, they can offer competitive fares tot he LCCs and actually make money!!! But they choose to operate fewer flights, spread their fixed costs (which are higher than their variable costs) over fewer flights, and as a result, they are losing money.

Remember: A lot of those planes parked out in the desert are still being paid for/are on lease, and a lot of the ones in use could be used for even more flights. At $40MM to $200MM per plane, that's a lot of cost to spread around.

So in the long run, it would be wise for AA/DL/NW to follow suit, it would put US/UA out of business.

I cannot understand your reasoning here. The only airlines this scenario helps are the LCCs, who are not unionized and would have full planes with multiple seats at full price. Granted they can't pick up all the slack of the legacy carriers, but after a day like that, what passenger would want to fly those airlines if they could avoid it?

No, sympathy strikes at the other airlines only serve one purpose: To ensure the political power of the union leaders. By shutting down 70% of the air transport infrastructure, they would have a virtually guaranteed seat at any transportation round-table for the next ten years.

Also, I say that US/UA out of business would not be healthy for the industry or the economy. The decreased number of seats would lead to a general rise in airfares (supply and demand, remember?) and would allow the still-inefficient legacy carriers to survive on their bloated cost structures. Granted it would also help out the LCCs, but they are generally doing fine, anyway. This would be gravy to them.

No, no. Don't kill off one carrier to save another. Save each carrier to save the whole industry.
Those who fail to learn history are doomed to repeat it in summer school.