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ODwyerPW
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777, 7E7 & 747Adv Common Flight Deck?

Wed Dec 15, 2004 6:32 am

777 and 7E7 both use (will use in case of 7E7) Honeywell Avionics. What is the likelihood that 777 and 7E7 will have a Common Flight Deck? Can/Will this be adopted for the 747Adv, differentiating it from existing 747?

Is it more advantageous to develop the 747Adv with a flight deck common to existing 747-400 or with 7E7?
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ConcordeBoy
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RE: 777, 7E7 & 747Adv Common Flight Deck?

Wed Dec 15, 2004 6:37 am

Cockpit commonality is by far the least consequential of what's already a severely-overrated (though still important) concept by aviation enthusiasts.


That said, perhaps Boeing will pull a 764ER-- i.e., give the airlines the ability to display cockpit information in like fashion to what model they see fit.
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MidnightMike
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RE: 777, 7E7 & 747Adv Common Flight Deck?

Wed Dec 15, 2004 6:38 am

From what I heard the 7E7 will be very close to the 777 cockpit.....
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DfwRevolution
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RE: 777, 7E7 & 747Adv Common Flight Deck?

Wed Dec 15, 2004 6:45 am

From what I heard the 7E7 will be very close to the 777 cockpit.....

Stlye wise yes... configuration wise no. The 7E7 will display roughly the same information on 4 larger screens, rather than 6 smaller ones. I don't see why Boeing can't still make it a "common" cockpit, but they will NOT be indentical
 
MidnightMike
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RE: 777, 7E7 & 747Adv Common Flight Deck?

Wed Dec 15, 2004 6:52 am

Technology, that is why Boeing can not make it a common cockpit. Plus, the 7E7 will have dual HUDS, pilots will learn how to use that as well.
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gigneil
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RE: 777, 7E7 & 747Adv Common Flight Deck?

Wed Dec 15, 2004 6:56 am

Technology, that is why Boeing can not make it a common cockpit

What does that mean?

The A380 is going to fly almost 20 years after the first A320, but they have a fully common cockpit.

The A380's is better and looks completely different, but information will be displayed in a common format and the FBW will behave the same way.

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PhilSquares
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RE: 777, 7E7 & 747Adv Common Flight Deck?

Wed Dec 15, 2004 7:38 am

I think people are a little confused. A common cockpit really does nothing. All of the Boeing "glass" cockpits are fairly common in layout.

I think what the real issue is if the aircraft will have a common type rating. Frankly, I don't see that as a real issue. First of all, the FAA/JAA wouldn't allow a common type on the 747A v. 777 or 7E7. The landing picture is too different and the flying characteristics will be too different. Since the 777 and 7E7 are both FBW, Boeing could if they wanted make the handling characteristics the same. However, I don't think it's worth it in the long run.

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dynkrisolo
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RE: 777, 7E7 & 747Adv Common Flight Deck?

Wed Dec 15, 2004 7:59 am


The A380 is going to fly almost 20 years after the first A320, but they have a fully common cockpit


That depends on your definition of commonality. Airbus is saying that it will take 8 business days to convert an A320 pilot to fly the A380. It takes around 10 business days to convert between some of the Boeing "non-common" cockpits.
 
eg777er
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RE: 777, 7E7 & 747Adv Common Flight Deck?

Wed Dec 15, 2004 9:25 am

It's not so much about pure commonality, more the concepts of CCQ (Cross Crew Qualification) and MFF (Mixed Fleet Flying).

Albeit this is only of interest to the less unionised carriers (i.e. not popular in the US) as it allows pilots to fly A319 one day and A330 the next. FBW allows almost identical handling characteristics. Insomuch as you are not handling the aircraft, merely operating it.

I believe much of the A330-to-A340 training focuses on 4 fire handles rather than 2....and that's about it.

I would expect the A340 and A380 to have a common rating....is this going to happen?
 
Planesmart
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RE: 777, 7E7 & 747Adv Common Flight Deck?

Wed Dec 15, 2004 12:08 pm

737 v 767 v 777. U could be in three different manufacturers aircraft.

The big question airlines are waiting to have answered, is what will the definitive 7e7 flight deck look & behave like, and will this become 'the' B std, in particular for future 777 derivatives and most critical the 737 replacement?

It seems there are factions within B that can't agree on the std. Shd the 737 replacement set the std, as most pilots will progress thru this model range, and numerically, they are likely to dominate? Or shd it be the 777, as it's a pre-existing model? Or shd it be the 7e7, as it's the next new model release?

Or shd it be none of the above, and will B just keep changing from model to model, so the latest model is always state of the art?

What would customers prefer?
 
PVG
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RE: 777, 7E7 & 747Adv Common Flight Deck?

Wed Dec 15, 2004 12:53 pm

What would customer's prefer? State of the art or commonality?
 
PhilSquares
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RE: 777, 7E7 & 747Adv Common Flight Deck?

Wed Dec 15, 2004 1:11 pm

I think most customers would prefer savings on the bottom line. Obviously, for Boeing the issue of CCQ or commonality wasn't an issue. Otherwise, we would have had the 757/767/777 as a common type rating.

Fly fast, live slow
 
gigneil
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RE: 777, 7E7 & 747Adv Common Flight Deck?

Wed Dec 15, 2004 1:28 pm

I would expect the A340 and A380 to have a common rating....is this going to happen?

No. Not possible, I wouldn't think.

The A380 is so much larger and heavier that I don't think any certifying authority would issue such a common cert.

N
 
DfwRevolution
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RE: 777, 7E7 & 747Adv Common Flight Deck?

Wed Dec 15, 2004 1:31 pm

The A380 is so much larger and heavier that I don't think any certifying authority would issue such a common cert.

I believe emergency procedures are different as well...
 
Planesmart
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RE: 777, 7E7 & 747Adv Common Flight Deck?

Wed Dec 15, 2004 1:32 pm

If u are a one model airline, commonality is not an issue.

If u plan to be, or are a multi-model airline, it is an issue.

If u are a US-based airline, commonality is much less of an issue than elsewhere in the world. The US stance is driven by union / seniority issues.

All other factors (price, performance, re-sale, etc) being equal, commonality then becomes a factor.
 
dl757md
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RE: 777, 7E7 & 747Adv Common Flight Deck?

Wed Dec 15, 2004 1:41 pm

I think that in regards to the 7E7 overhead panel at least you will see a major difference from the 777 due to the lack of a pneumatic system, radically different electrical system, and other systems differences. I'm not sure if they plan to incorporate 7E7 or 777 systems into the 747ADV.

Dl757Md
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Rj111
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RE: 777, 7E7 & 747Adv Common Flight Deck?

Wed Dec 15, 2004 1:52 pm

The A380 is so much larger and heavier that I don't think any certifying authority would issue such a common cert.

Inevitably, they are trying to keep the two as similar as possible though. Which explains the positioning of the A380's cockpit, roughly the same height as the A340's IIRC.