Sabena332
Topic Author
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What Exactly Is "International Airspace"?

Wed Dec 15, 2004 8:31 am

Hi all,

I noticed a lot of pictures in the database which were taken while flying over ground but have the description "International Airspace", for example these:


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Photo © Ismael Jorda
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Photo © Christian Galliker



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Photo © Tis Meyer
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Photo © Peter Unmuth - VAP



I always thought that when you are flying over Thailand, you are in Thai airspace and not in international airspace. When you are flying over Germany, you are in German airspace and not in international airspace, etc.

I think you are in international airspace when you are flying over an ocean where no land is, or maybe over Antarctica. Is this correct or can you also be in international airspace when you are flying over a country?

Can anyone please enlighten me?

Thanks in advance!

Patrick
NZ1's mother is a disgusting crack-whore and his father is a worthless alcoholic!
 
brink777
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RE: What Exactly Is "International Airspace"?

Wed Dec 15, 2004 8:44 am

I think it means that the carrier for example LH is over us airspace it is considerd international air space becouse LH is german
 
legendDC9
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RE: What Exactly Is "International Airspace"?

Wed Dec 15, 2004 8:47 am

Isn't Int'l airspace over areas that are not controlled by any country? If a LH flight is over the US, it is in US airspace. The fact that it is a foreign carrier has nothing to do with it.
 
brink777
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RE: What Exactly Is "International Airspace"?

Wed Dec 15, 2004 8:56 am

Good point LegendDC9! Maybe its becouse the photografer does not Know what land they are cruising over and its not their homeland so to them it is international airspace
 
manu
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RE: What Exactly Is "International Airspace"?

Wed Dec 15, 2004 12:36 pm

It's a simple reason. The photographer isn't from the country that the picture was taken over, therefore they are international! (lol). Sorry, I couldn't resist...
 
BA
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RE: What Exactly Is "International Airspace"?

Wed Dec 15, 2004 4:04 pm

You are absolutely correct Sabena332 and this is one of the things that irritates me when I look at some window view shots!

As all land has been claimed except Antarctica, the only time where one can be in international airspace while overland is if they are flying over Antarctica.

Flying over any other land is definately not international airspace.

In regards to the sea, nations can claim I believe 12 or 15 miles of sea from the coastline. Anything beyond that is classified as international waters and international airspace.

I believe exceptions are made for lakes however.

By the way, the rule in regards to claiming 12 or 15 miles of sea from the coastline includes ice.

Basically Canada cannot claim the North Pole or any of the frozen ice between land in Canada and the North Pole.

Regards
"Generosity is giving more than you can, and pride is taking less than you need." - Khalil Gibran
 
greaser
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RE: What Exactly Is "International Airspace"?

Wed Dec 15, 2004 4:07 pm

I believe 12 or 15 miles of sea from the coastline.

I tht it was 200nm?? Or is that for Lighthouses?

Now you're really flying
 
robsawatsky
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RE: What Exactly Is "International Airspace"?

Thu Dec 16, 2004 6:50 am

The 12 mile zone is the territorial limit (i.e. full sovereign control and rights of the country apply).

The 200 mile zone is for economic exploitation. (i.e. the country has economic control over the sea and seabed but it is not their territory for other purposes).
 
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N328KF
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RE: What Exactly Is "International Airspace"?

Thu Dec 16, 2004 7:01 am

Robsawatsky:

Of course, the 12-mile amount can matter to varying degrees. For instance, get within 200 miles of the wrong country with the wrong type of vessel, and you're liable to get your head blown off anyhow.
When they call the roll in the Senate, the Senators do not know whether to answer 'Present' or 'Not guilty.' -Theodore Roosevelt
 
komododx
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RE: What Exactly Is "International Airspace"?

Thu Dec 16, 2004 7:05 am

I'm not exactly sure how it is defined but what I do know is that the pics you posted have wrong information. If they're over land, they're over THAT country's airspace.

Int'l airspace I believe would be somewhere in the middle of the Atlantic or Pacific oceans.

KdX in TLH / FLL
I'm homeless and unemployed
 
rushed
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RE: What Exactly Is "International Airspace"?

Thu Dec 16, 2004 2:32 pm

does a reef count as the starting point for the 12miles thingy.
Ie the great barrier reef along the northern coast of qld?

on a side note australia now requires all ships entering within a 2000km radius of australia to report to australia as part of scheme to protect australia.. LOL... ironically indonesia papa new gunea and new zealand all fall within this 2000m radius.. Does that mean that if you go fishing in new zealand you have to call australia and report..

rushed
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MD11Engineer
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RE: What Exactly Is "International Airspace"?

Thu Dec 16, 2004 3:15 pm

When the laws about territorial waters turned up first during the 19th century, the idea was that, if you claim some stretch of sea, you should be able to defend it. Back then coastal artillery had a range of about 3 nautical miles, so this was the territorial waters. Later the range increased to about 12 miles, as it still is today.

Jan
Je Suis Charlie et je suis Ahmet aussi
 
stealthpilot
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RE: What Exactly Is "International Airspace"?

Thu Dec 16, 2004 11:50 pm

I thought it was 10 nautical miles? Could be 12.
I know in the FAR there are referenced to 10nm within the shoreline.
sorry for the vagueness..... the ppl above can give you a better idea  Smile
-Nikhil
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ATLhomeCMH
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RE: What Exactly Is "International Airspace"?

Fri Dec 17, 2004 12:29 am

Int'l airspace is airspace not controlled by an autonomous state, such as out in the middle of the Pacific or Atlantic Oceans...
"The most terrifying words in the Engligh language are, 'I'm from the government and I'm here to help.'"-Ronald Reagan
 
iluv747400
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RE: What Exactly Is "International Airspace"?

Fri Dec 17, 2004 7:05 am

The 1982 UN Convention on the Law of State placed the limits of a country's territorial sea at 12nm. An exclusive economic zone (EEZ) extends another 188nm (200nm from the coast) over which the country exclusive rights to all living and non-living resources. A country's sovereign airspace is all that is above the sovereign land, internal waters, and territorial sea of that country. Canada, for example, claims Hudson Bay to be internal waters and thus there is no international airspace there. International airspace is everything beyond 12nm from the coast of a country and includes the airspace over Antarctica (though watch out, Argentina definitely has an air force base down there).
 
Marambio
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RE: What Exactly Is "International Airspace"?

Fri Dec 17, 2004 2:58 pm

Yeah, it's called Marambio! Big grin

Saludos
Marambio
Aerolíneas Argentinas - La Argentina que levanta vuelo
 
Lono
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RE: What Exactly Is "International Airspace"?

Fri Dec 17, 2004 3:18 pm

International Airspace is best described as the space between the ears of many of the F/A's that have been posting here lately stating their weak case of how they are essential for the industry to function...
Wally Bird Ruled the Skys!
 
Sabena332
Topic Author
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RE: What Exactly Is "International Airspace"?

Fri Dec 17, 2004 11:08 pm

Thanks for all your feedback and explanations!

I assume that meens a lot of work for the correction editors now? Big grin

Patrick
NZ1's mother is a disgusting crack-whore and his father is a worthless alcoholic!

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