pilotaydin
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? About Iran Air A300 That Was Shot Down....

Wed Dec 15, 2004 11:45 am

Does anyone have a link or some info about WHY?, seeing as it's been years after this event. On 3 July 1988 an Iranair A300 was shot down in the Persian Gulf, near the Straits of Hormuz.

All the searches i come up with just explain the event, not the reason.

Was it really a mistake made by the US ship crew? Or was there something or some people onboard that were on a list ?

I'm quite curious, because i wanted to do this as a paper in college but never found any info, so i bring it up here, perhaps someone knows?
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N328KF
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RE:? About Iran Air A300 That Was Shot Down....

Wed Dec 15, 2004 11:49 am

Pilotaydin:

Short and to the point:

Some Iranian gunboats attacked some Persian Gulf oil rigs. U.S. Navy vessels started chasing and attacking them. Adrenaline was high, and here comes this Iran Airbus A300 on a landing run (which, unfortunately, can look a lot like an attack run) and when reaction time is at a premium, the USS Vincennes accidentally shot it down.
When they call the roll in the Senate, the Senators do not know whether to answer 'Present' or 'Not guilty.' -Theodore Roosevelt
 
CRPilot
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RE:? About Iran Air A300 That Was Shot Down....

Wed Dec 15, 2004 11:55 am

"the USS Vincennes accidentally shot it down."

That's a contradiction in terms if I ever heard one! Particularly since the USA has the most advance navy fleet in the whole world. There is nothing accidental about pointing and firing without thought!
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bennett123
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RE:? About Iran Air A300 That Was Shot Down....

Wed Dec 15, 2004 11:56 am



Try Aviation Disasters ISBN 1 85260 602 9 for starters.

The fact that the Vincennes and A300 were both within air corridor A59 was a big part of the problem.
 
pilotaydin
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RE:? About Iran Air A300 That Was Shot Down....

Wed Dec 15, 2004 11:58 am

whose airspace did this happen in? Im not familiar with laws of launching something from one sea into the airspace of another nation...unless it was no man's....
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N328KF
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RE:? About Iran Air A300 That Was Shot Down....

Wed Dec 15, 2004 12:08 pm

CRPilot:

Want me to define "accident" for you? Since you are probably not a native English speaker, allow me to do so. From Merriam-Webster:

"1 a : an unforeseen and unplanned event or circumstance b : lack of intention or necessity : CHANCE "

Clearly, USS Vincennes did not intend to shoot down that A300. Therefore it is accidental.
When they call the roll in the Senate, the Senators do not know whether to answer 'Present' or 'Not guilty.' -Theodore Roosevelt
 
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clickhappy
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RE:? About Iran Air A300 That Was Shot Down....

Wed Dec 15, 2004 12:29 pm

the funny sad thing was the radar oops thought they were looking at an Iranian F-14, not an Airbus
 
KYIPpilot
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RE:? About Iran Air A300 That Was Shot Down....

Wed Dec 15, 2004 12:35 pm

Clearly, USS Vincennes did not intend to shoot down that A300. Therefore it is accidental.

No, they very clearly purposely shot it down, because it was percieved as a threat. They thought it was an Iranian fighter, so they launched a missle at it. Missles just don't launch themselves. Only later did they realize it was an airliner.

Rogers had to make a decision. An F-14 could do little damage to the Vincennes. The version that Washington sold to its ally the Shah of Iran in the early 1970's was purely a fighter plane, not configured to strike surface targets. Still, if Rogers meant to attack it with a missile, he had to fire before the aircraft closed much within 10 miles. At 9:54:05, with the plane 11 miles away, Rogers reached up and switched the firing key to "free" the ship's SM-2 antiaircraft missiles. In Air Alley, Zocher had been given the green light to fire. The young lieutenant was so undone, however, that he pressed the wrong keys on his console 23 times. A veteran petty officer had to lean over and hit the right ones. In the CIC, the lights dimmed momentarily, like a prison's during an electrocution.

Some 10 miles away, Captain Rezaian of Iran Air was calmly reporting to Bander Abbas that he had reached his first check-point crossing the gulf. He heard none of the Vincennes warnings. His four radio bandwidths were taken up with air-control chatter. "Have a nice day," the tower radioed. "Thank you, good day," replied the pilot. Thirty seconds later, the first missile blew the left wing off his aircraft.

On the Vincennes's bridge, cameraman Rudy Pahayo was still filming. His audio captured a babble of voices: "Oh, dead!" "Coming down!" "We had him dead on!" One voice commanded: "Hold the noise down, knock it off!" Another shouted, "Direct hit!" then a lookout came in from the wing of the bridge. The target couldn't have been an F-14, he said. The wreckage falling from the sky, he murmured to the Vincennes's executive officer, Cmdr. Richard Foster, is bigger than that.


from http://www.geocities.com/CapitolHill/5260/vince.html


[Edited 2004-12-15 04:36:47]
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AirbusDriver
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RE:? About Iran Air A300 That Was Shot Down....

Wed Dec 15, 2004 12:57 pm

this Iran Airbus A300 on a landing run

No It was in cruise...The radar can't tell the altitude???
 
atmx2000
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RE:? About Iran Air A300 That Was Shot Down....

Wed Dec 15, 2004 1:00 pm

It had just taken off from Iran, from an airport used for both civil and military planes.
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spacecadet
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RE:? About Iran Air A300 That Was Shot Down....

Wed Dec 15, 2004 1:06 pm

Clearly, USS Vincennes did not intend to shoot down that A300. Therefore it is accidental.

No, they very clearly purposely shot it down, because it was percieved as a threat.


I think it's obvious what he meant was that they did not intend to shoot down an A300. They did intend to shoot down a threat. The airplane was not a threat, which they did not know - hence, an unfortunate accident.

It also should be noted that both the Iranians and this A300 specifically were warned several times prior to the shootdown, with no response. The Iranians allowed this airplane to enter a known combat zone and the airplane never identified itself in response to internationally recognized challenges. Funny how the conspiracy theorists never pick up on that.

There are only two possible answers to how this happened: a mistake by the American crew initiated when the Iranians attacked targets in the Persian Gulf, or an intentional scenario created by the Iranians to sway world opinion against the United States. I vote for the former, as I am not a conspiracy theorist, but then I know we've got a lot of conspiracy theorists around here and I never do hear anything about the second theory. Either way, the ultimate blame lies with Iran.

(Can you imagine if the United States launched an attack on a country and then complained when one of our airliners got shot down over the combat zone? Sorry, when you've got a known combat area, you clear the airspace.)
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cylw
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RE:? About Iran Air A300 That Was Shot Down....

Wed Dec 15, 2004 1:15 pm

(Can you imagine if the United States launched an attack on a country and then complained when one of our airliners got shot down over the combat zone? Sorry, when you've got a known combat area, you clear the airspace.)

That is such a load of crap. This was a SCHEDULED flight which the US knew about. This was on a CIVILIAN airway. Yeah, a climbing A300 looks like an F-14 coming in for an attack.

Either way, the ultimate blame lies with Iran.

No, the ultimate blame lies with the commander of the Vincennes!
 
AirbusDriver
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RE:? About Iran Air A300 That Was Shot Down....

Wed Dec 15, 2004 2:10 pm

So we shoot it down but it's there fault???
 
AirbusCanada
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RE:? About Iran Air A300 That Was Shot Down....

Wed Dec 15, 2004 2:15 pm

n you imagine if the United States launched an attack on a country and then complained when one of our airliners got shot down over the combat zone? Sorry, when you've got a known combat area, you clear the airspace.)

last time i check, us never decleard war on IRAN.
and I am sure those gunboats did not attack any US oil rigs.
how the iranian air contorllers suppose to clear a combat zone, when there is no war?
 
Boeing Nut
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RE:? About Iran Air A300 That Was Shot Down....

Wed Dec 15, 2004 3:16 pm

I remember the footage from the actual incident on the bridge of the Vincennes. Just by the body language alone, you could tell what the crew had actually done. They were visably shaken when it was confirmed they had shot down an airliner and not a military aircraft.
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Skyguy
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RE:? About Iran Air A300 That Was Shot Down....

Wed Dec 15, 2004 3:18 pm

When you are the only superpower in the world with a significant collection of weapons of mass destruction, there is an implicit understanding that you can get away with whatever you wish with impunity, and there is an expectation that what you dictate to other countries is complied with.

With the Iran Air incident, the US could categorize it or mask it however they wish, since whatever the outcome, it would be irrelevant to the US. This seeming lack of accountability to other countries and their citizens in such cases only adds to the perceived instituitional arrogance of US policy and actions (..or lack of). Nevertheless, I do not recall any formal apology being tendered to the Iranian government.
"Those who talk, do not know, and those who know, do not talk."
 
atmx2000
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RE:? About Iran Air A300 That Was Shot Down....

Wed Dec 15, 2004 3:47 pm

Uh, If I recall correctly, there were two superpowers when this incident happened. And while there may have been no war declared, the Iranians were certainly acting in a reckless and beligerent manner during that period, attacking the ships and facilities of US allies (including ships that had been reflagged under the US flag) and mining the waters of the Gulf.

The unfortunate reality is whenever there is operational activity whether it is combat or practice or normal manuevers, there is a chance of incidents that effect civilians taking place. Given the operational intensity during that period and given the incident that occurred the previous year with the "accidental" missile attack by an Iraqi jet on the USS Stark that killed 37 sailors, US Naval commanders tended to be a bit more vary of approaching aircraft.
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cragley
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RE:? About Iran Air A300 That Was Shot Down....

Thu Dec 16, 2004 12:11 am


Didn't the US military award the guy that fired the missle some sort of award?

I heard he was awarded a medal for bravery or something.

Hrm....shooting down a passenger jet, how very brave.

 Smile/happy/getting dizzy
 
widebody
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RE:? About Iran Air A300 That Was Shot Down....

Thu Dec 16, 2004 1:03 am

The ultimate blame lies with Iran SpaceCadet?!!

Whatever the reasons, whatever the mis-understandings on this incident, I can't possibly see how you could draw the conclusion that Iran was to blame. Accident or no accident, the aircraft was shot down when it shouldn't have been.

And it was reported that the warnings were issued on a military channel ONLY, not the civil channel...but again that was Iran's fault? Shared responsibility maybe but ultimately Iran's fault I doubt.



[Edited 2004-12-15 17:04:22]
 
ATLhomeCMH
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RE:? About Iran Air A300 That Was Shot Down....

Thu Dec 16, 2004 1:20 am

I also thought they were high in cruise altitude, but I guess not...this is from the Senate Armed Services Hearing link that CYLW posted...

ENGAGEMENT SEQUENCE (CONT)
0654 Z
• IDS observes Flt 655 at 7,800 ft. at 455 kts descending.
• Spy radar holds Flt 655 at 12,000 ft ascending at 380 kts.
• Firing key turned.
• AAWC recalls altitude of 6,000-7,000 ft.
• 14 secs after firing key is turned, MSS starts launch sequence.
• 3 secs later first missile is launched followed by a second missile.
• Two missiles intercepted Flt 655 BRG 001, RNG 8 nm at 13,500 ft at 383 kts.


Just from reading other parts of the report, it does look like there were procedural errors by the Vincennes bridge officers...(proper warnings/instructions weren't issued at the proper times to IR655, etc).

Then again, I'm no expert...plus, the Vincennes obviously felt some reason to defend itself.




[Edited 2004-12-15 17:32:14]
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Russophile
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RE:? About Iran Air A300 That Was Shot Down....

Thu Dec 16, 2004 9:37 am

And while there may have been no war declared, the Iranians were certainly acting in a reckless and beligerent manner during that period, attacking the ships and facilities of US allies (including ships that had been reflagged under the US flag) and mining the waters of the Gulf.

People need to remember that this was during the time of the Iran-Iraq War. A war which Iraq (a US ally) itself started. It was Iraq who started with blowing up merchant marine (in fact blowing up more than 3 times than Iran did). Iran did attack several tankers -- but these tankers were known to have been supplying the Iraqi war effort. Whether they be sailing under the Kuwaiti or Soviet flag (yes, the USSR had a hand in this also) is irrelevant, they were being used to attack Iran. Much of Kuwait's merchant marine was reflagged with US flags, but they were still supplying the Iraqi war effort. And hence, legitimate targets.

I also thought they were high in cruise altitude, but I guess not...this is from the Senate Armed Services Hearing link that CYLW posted...

IR655 was on a flight from Bandar Abbas to Dubai (the milk run) -- a distance of around 240km -- because of the distance it wouldn't reach normal cruise altitude -- once it takes off, it is almost time to land again  Big grin
 
AirEMS
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RE:? About Iran Air A300 That Was Shot Down....

Thu Dec 16, 2004 9:43 am

If it was an accident or not I just can't imagine what it was like in that A300 or what it felt like to be that captain that night.

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N1120A
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RE:? About Iran Air A300 That Was Shot Down....

Thu Dec 16, 2004 9:51 am

>A300 specifically were warned several times prior to the shootdown<

On military channels that they were not supposed to monitor, addressing an "Iranian F-14"

>with no response.<

They did not know they were being addressed

>The Iranians allowed this airplane to enter a known combat zone <

ATC, following the rules and airways of international ATC put the airplane into a civilian airway

>and the airplane never identified itself in response to internationally recognized challenges.<

They were not addressed on the channels they were expected to monitor

>Funny how the conspiracy theorists never pick up on that.<

This is not about conspiracy theory, as I, a US-Iranian-French triple citizen will acknowledge this was a mistake and not part of some conspiracy. It was however, a breach of protocol, a violation of international law, criminal negligence and a clear mass tort committed by the US and it agents, namely the US Navy.

There should have been a lot more done by the US after the incident (hell, it would not have happened except for the incompetancy and bad action of the crew of the destroyer) but there was an official appology and the token of allowing Iranair to buy a few European airliners. Still, the US should have paid the families of the passengers and crew a lot more than they probably gave the Iranian government instead
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trex8
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RE:? About Iran Air A300 That Was Shot Down....

Thu Dec 16, 2004 11:36 am

Read Electronic Greyhounds by Potter, its probably got the best analysis I have seen of the incident. Its a book about the Spruance class destroyers (the Tico cruiser use the same hull).
In a nutshell, Vincennes was disobeying direct orders from US HQ in Bahrain by chasing the Iranians, misreporting the actions of the Iranian boats . They were getting hyped up from their encounters with the Iranian gunboats. The crew did the wrong thing everytime they had a choice (misused an IFF not linked to the AEGIS system, the AEGIS system IFF always showed the A300 as a civilian aircraft), mis read displays so that a climbing aircraft was seen to be diving, they were looking at the wrong target track, officers were refusing to contradict their near hysterical crew and and the rest is history! Even the Sides , a frigate in the area, which while accepting the Vincennes initial assumption the plane was a F14 did not feel it constituted any threat to them at any time and it eventually did accurately identify it as a civilian airliner but the crew in the Vincennes CDS was beyond anyone changing their mind.They had a bogey in their sights and they were going to get it no matter what anyone else said to them.

The US only finally agreed to release the compensation to the Iranian families in the last few years.
 
CRPilot
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RE:? About Iran Air A300 That Was Shot Down....

Thu Dec 16, 2004 12:57 pm

N328KF wrote:

"Want me to define "accident" for you? Since you are probably not a native English speaker, allow me to do so."

First of all, I speak three languages perfect, I'm actually an American tax payer with the flag of my country of birth next to my name. English is my first language...How about you?...redneck and drunkaneece? And from your own definition:

"lack of intention or necessity"

"Lack of necessity" means unnecessary...as I said before, if you point and shoot without confirmation you have to assume responsibility for an action which does not qualified as accident in the eyes of the world and your own citizens.

And by the way, that was a nice accident in Iraq too!
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DC10GUY
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RE:? About Iran Air A300 That Was Shot Down....

Thu Dec 16, 2004 1:06 pm

Where not terrorists because we said ... Ops sorry, my bad.
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N328KF
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RE:? About Iran Air A300 That Was Shot Down....

Thu Dec 16, 2004 1:12 pm

CRPilot:

Sounds like you're assuming an awful lot from about me, including my race, from what I've said here. Not a wise move, especially since you might be completely wrong.
When they call the roll in the Senate, the Senators do not know whether to answer 'Present' or 'Not guilty.' -Theodore Roosevelt
 
CRPilot
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RE:? About Iran Air A300 That Was Shot Down....

Thu Dec 16, 2004 1:19 pm

"Sounds like you're assuming an awful lot from about me, including my race, from what I've said here. Not a wise move, especially since you might be completely wrong."

Again you are the one that assume that I was not a native English speaker...not wise at all as you do not know my background either. My comment was directed to anyone, don't make this about race! Oh, and by the way did I already mentioned that I live in the States and pay taxes like you! That entitles me to question my government particularly on the grounds of stupidity such as shooting down an airliner full of innocent people.
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pilotaydin
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RE:? About Iran Air A300 That Was Shot Down....

Thu Dec 16, 2004 1:22 pm

please dont get personal, i was just asking a question that i was really curious about.

I thank everyone for their replies. I just think it was a horrible circumstance. I must give props to some posters for their sources  Smile thumbs up !

Although it was way back then, if this was an accident, im glad not many more happened.

Were any lawsuits filled or anything like that?
The only time there is too much fuel onboard, is when you're on fire!
 
trex8
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RE:? About Iran Air A300 That Was Shot Down....

Fri Dec 17, 2004 3:21 am

The US settled the case with IIRC over 200 million to be paid to the families. However they did not release the money for years till just in the last 2 or so as they wanted a mechanism to distribute the money which the Iranian govt had no part of and there was a lot of negotiation to sort that out.

It was a tragic accident for which no one was held liable even though with hindsight I think there was criminal culpability by some in command. But with US-Iran relations the way it was back then, there was no way the US were going to say they screwed up and punish someone for it. It had its repercussions. The PanAm bombing was felt by many to be a response by anti US entities to get back at the US for the Iran Air incident.
 
aa777jr
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RE:? About Iran Air A300 That Was Shot Down....

Fri Dec 17, 2004 3:30 am

where can I find a video of the missle blowing the plane up? someone said they remember the look on the peoples faces when they realized what had happened.

thanks!
AA777jr
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N1120A
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RE:? About Iran Air A300 That Was Shot Down....

Fri Dec 17, 2004 3:39 am

>The PanAm bombing was felt by many to be a response by anti US entities to get back at the US for the Iran Air incident.<

That was actually in the works before the Iranair incident, but it was what got certain elements in Iran behind the previously all Libyan effort. It was probably what made it actually happen that soon, and considering the US and German authorities figured out what was going on just hours too late, it may not have happened without it. Also, if it had happened later, with PA's new screening system in place and proper staff trained (the person who overlooked the unmatched bag was on his first day) the bomb would have likely been found before hitting the airplane.
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Alessandro
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RE:? About Iran Air A300 That Was Shot Down....

Fri Dec 17, 2004 3:46 am

I think it was a mistake, US navy was very nervous after USS Stark where Iraqi Mirage fighter hit and killed +30 US sailors the year before the downing of the Irani A300.
From New Yorqatar to Califarbia...
 
gearup
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RE:? About Iran Air A300 That Was Shot Down....

Fri Dec 17, 2004 6:42 am

I do not believe for one moment that they would have shot it down had they known it was a civilian airliner. The crew might have been affected by a combination of adrenaline, inoperative equipment etc. but deliberate malice,,,I don't think so. I would have to question the wisdom of vectoring an aircraft over a combat zone in the first place.
4 Canadians died in Afghanistan because a US pilot dropped a bomb on them while they were training. While I do not know why it happened, I cannot conceive
of deliberate malice as a factor.

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ltbewr
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RE:? About Iran Air A300 That Was Shot Down....

Fri Dec 17, 2004 6:54 am

If I am correct, on of the problems here was the lack of a proper identifying transponder on the Iran Air a/c, one that would have ID'd it as a civilian a/c. This was further compounded by the lack of proper equipment on the ship to determine if the Iran Air a/c was friend or foe as well as hyped up and fearful people on that US Navy ship. As a result, without proper info fast enough, a civillian a/c was shot down. It is a great tradegy on the part of the US Navy. There was restitution by the US government, but it was long after the flight due to the political issues as noted above.
 
lh600
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RE:? About Iran Air A300 That Was Shot Down....

Fri Dec 17, 2004 7:07 am

As an Iranian, I can tell you that it was no accident, and I do not need to explain this to a bunch of people who cannot accept that "good ol' red blooded Americans" were capable of intentionally killing these innocent people (As if they don't do it in Iraq everyday).

Even if it were an "accident," NO COMPENSATION WAS GIVEN TO THE IRANIANS. The US government felt it was enough to merely ease sanctions temporarily so that Iran could buy two airbus planes EP-IBA and EP-IBB. That's it!!!!!

May the 290 people on board R.I.P.
 
pilotaydin
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RE:? About Iran Air A300 That Was Shot Down....

Fri Dec 17, 2004 7:09 am

all in all...after attaing more view points from the posters above....i just feel like it's one of those situations where the coincidence factor happens to come in...and as someone said adrenalin and all the other factors....

it's just amazing the same species that put much effort into designing a plane and making life more convenient, can design weapons to bring that same plane down....
The only time there is too much fuel onboard, is when you're on fire!
 
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N328KF
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RE:? About Iran Air A300 That Was Shot Down....

Fri Dec 17, 2004 7:10 am

LH600:

Were you on the Vincennes? The Senatoral investigating committee? No? Well, then.
When they call the roll in the Senate, the Senators do not know whether to answer 'Present' or 'Not guilty.' -Theodore Roosevelt
 
bullpitt
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RE:? About Iran Air A300 That Was Shot Down....

Fri Dec 17, 2004 7:36 am

All I can say is, If you go to war with the Americans, as an ally or a foe. The best place to be is behind them. Big grin
These are my principles but if you don't like them I have others
 
miamiair
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RE:? About Iran Air A300 That Was Shot Down....

Fri Dec 17, 2004 7:43 am

N328KF:

You can't win with these people. If you mention KAL007, they will say that the airplane was masking a USAF ELINT platform. Nothing but conspiracy theories.

BTW: What compensation was given to the hostages of the US Embassy in Tehran that were kept against their will for 444 days???

It's hard to soar like an eagle when the pattern is clogged with turkey vultures.
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lh600
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RE:? About Iran Air A300 That Was Shot Down....

Fri Dec 17, 2004 8:10 am

N328KF:

I'd bet you weren't on the Vincennes or the senatoral investigating committee either. What makes you an expert?? By listening to what is fed to you by your one-sided media?? Or just your belief that the US military has the right to police the world and kill innocent people??

For me this attack hit home, my aunt was an Iran Air flight attendant. Luckily she wasn't on that plane. But you don't care that 290 innocent people lost their lives. You don't care because they weren't American.

Lets not forget this is NOT the US military's first 'accident'. Just imagine what would happen if the Iranian military 'accidentally' shot down an American civilian aircraft. Iran would be bombed off the face of the earth!!!

IT'S A SAD WORLD WE LIVE IN.

[Edited 2004-12-17 00:34:41]

[Edited 2004-12-17 00:40:58]
 
Russophile
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RE:? About Iran Air A300 That Was Shot Down....

Fri Dec 17, 2004 8:29 am

Were you on the Vincennes? The Senatoral investigating committee? No? Well, then.

He wasn't. I wasn't. And you weren't? And why not mention any Iranian investigation which was done? We don't just need the 'word' of Washington to ascertain what is the truth and what isn't.

In regards to IR655, I don't believe it was a deliberate act on the part of the US government. I do believe however it was a deliberate act on the part of Rogers, largely because he refused to follow orders and had the trigger finger.

As far as the US government is concerned this was an accident. OK, let's grant that. But, the first thing you do when you cause an accident is say SORRY and you make things right. Reagan, of course, didn't say sorry. He say "We deeply regret any loss of life." Nowhere near saying sorry. No formal apology has ever been made.

You don't lie, you don't hide the truth, and you sure as hell don't protect and decorate those responsible.

Although it might have been an accident, or a mistake, people still need to be held accountable for their mistakes.

The US government's offer of US$61.8 million compensation in 1996 was a complete joke. Particularly after you consider that the US demanded US$2.7 billion from Libya for those killed on PA103.
 
trex8
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RE:? About Iran Air A300 That Was Shot Down....

Fri Dec 17, 2004 8:41 am

An American is worth far more than any other nationality. That's obvious isn't it??
I'm being facetious, but that is unfortunately the mentality we have to deal with in situations like this.

There wa snothing wrong with the transponder on the Iran Air plane or even the AEGIS IFF system, which always showed it to be a commercial plane. The problem was human error in misusing the non AEGIS IFF interrogator and not adjusting it for the appropriate range so that as a result of surface duct transmission, a military plane on the ground at Bandar Abbas was interrogated and not the A300! Even the Vincennes ECM system never showed a hostile threat.
 
lh600
Posts: 157
Joined: Mon Mar 29, 2004 4:21 pm

RE:? About Iran Air A300 That Was Shot Down....

Fri Dec 17, 2004 8:49 am

Trex8:

"An American is worth far more than any other nationality. That's obvious isn't it??
I'm being facetious, but that is unfortunately the mentality we have to deal with in situations like this."



Why is it that we have to deal with this mentality??? Shouldn't we try to end it?? After all, many politicians believe this and it can lead to dangerous situations.

[Edited 2004-12-17 00:56:19]
 
trex8
Posts: 4602
Joined: Sat Nov 02, 2002 9:04 am

RE:? About Iran Air A300 That Was Shot Down....

Fri Dec 17, 2004 9:52 am

I'm not saying its acceptable, but its the mentality that determines the outcome of such unfortunate incidents and you are 100% correct that it should end. But human nature being what it is and this not being an ideal world, there will always be someone somewhere who thinks they are better/more important etc than someone else.
 
miamix707
Posts: 3848
Joined: Tue Oct 21, 2003 2:22 pm

RE:? About Iran Air A300 That Was Shot Down....

Fri Dec 17, 2004 3:39 pm

"As an Iranian, I can tell you that it was no accident, and I do not need to explain this to a bunch of people who cannot accept that "good ol' red blooded Americans" were capable of intentionally killing these innocent people (As if they don't do it in Iraq everyday)"


..And I've spoken to Iranians who don't feel the way you do, some even told me they wished the U.S. had gone in and done the regime change in your country instead of Iraq. However, and even with the Iranian rulers being who they are, the U.S. should've given an apology, and a good one.

I was really young back then but I can remember the images on TV of bodies floating in the water, very sad  Crying as if that wasn't enough, a few months later, PanAm 103  Crying


I realize you are bit on the young side and have your strong, biased views, but why does Iraq have to come up? In Iraq, the only ones sabotaging the reconstruction and doing the suicide bombings are the insurgents with the help of foreign fighters (some coming from Iran) as you probably know.


 
miamix707
Posts: 3848
Joined: Tue Oct 21, 2003 2:22 pm

RE:? About Iran Air A300 That Was Shot Down....

Fri Dec 17, 2004 3:44 pm

BTW, I think that the Iran Air planes in that older livery looked beautiful.

Any pics of that A300 in the database?
 
lh600
Posts: 157
Joined: Mon Mar 29, 2004 4:21 pm

RE:? About Iran Air A300 That Was Shot Down....

Fri Dec 17, 2004 5:27 pm

Miamix707:

I've spoken to Iranians who don't feel the way you do, some even told me they wished the U.S. had gone in and done the regime change in your country instead of Iraq.

Everyone is entitled to their opinion, and they can believe what they want. I believe that the attack on the Iran Air A300 was not an accident.

If those Iranians who you've claim you to talked to really exist, I'd bet you that they had worked in or were loyal to the previous oppressive regime and/or are willing to have a foreign power bomb their homeland, kill civilians, and install US puppets to run the country. Therefore these people do not have the interest of the Iranian people at heart.



I realize you are bit on the young side and have your strong, biased views, but why does Iraq have to come up?

I do not have biased views. I am half Iranian half American and love both of my countries equally. I would go as far as to say I HATE the tyrannical Iranian government, but that does not mean the US government is perfect either. I brought up the US occupation of Iraq because it is another example of the atrocities the US military commits overseas. As I think you know, many other FELLOW AMERICANS feel the same way I do. I frequently travel back and forth between the US and Iran therefore I feel that I know what is going on in Iran much better than you do. And finally, my age has nothing to do with this, I am 19 years old and you just brought that up to shatter my credibility. After this post I think you know that you have failed to do so.


[Edited 2004-12-17 09:47:13]
 
miamiair
Posts: 4249
Joined: Thu Jul 15, 2004 9:42 pm

RE:? About Iran Air A300 That Was Shot Down....

Fri Dec 17, 2004 9:14 pm

LH600:
Not your credibility, but your ass is showing. There is a noticeable amount of venom in your post. Join the mortals trodding on the earth as you were not in the CIC of the Vincennes, and don't know what actually happened. Those that were there do, so lighten up. It was an unfortunate ACCIDENT, and leave it at that. Stirring the sh*t only makes it more odorous.

And please don't generalize about atrocities committed by the US military. You are judging the entire military for a few isolated incidents. Using your logic, I can say that all muslims are responsible for 9/11; totally absurd.

[Edited 2004-12-17 13:18:53]
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