MainRunway
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Primaris Airlines

Thu Dec 16, 2004 6:52 am

can anyone give me any info on when this airline will begin service as well as any other info you may have. their web page really doesn't tell you much.
 
N1120A
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RE: Primaris Airlines

Thu Dec 16, 2004 6:57 am

can anyone give me any info on when this airline will begin service

Already has.

>as well as any other info you may have.<

They fly an all business 757 and are currently chartered to carry political press, most often the White House Press Corps
Mangeons les French fries, mais surtout pratiquons avec fierte le French kiss
 
LambertMan
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RE: Primaris Airlines

Thu Dec 16, 2004 6:59 am

They are going to try and fly the premium routes JFK-LAX, SFO etc. with all first class configured 757's. I believe they actually have a 757 as of right now in Primaris' dull colors.

They have tried several different ways of getting capital to start the airline up, including trying to induce a scrambling St Louis(Month or so after cuts) to front them gate leases etc.

If they get in the air, I don't think it will be for long.
 
7e72004
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RE: Primaris Airlines

Thu Dec 16, 2004 7:00 am

Sounds a lot like Legend Airlines if you ask me.
The next generation of aircraft is just around the corner!
 
LambertMan
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RE: Primaris Airlines

Thu Dec 16, 2004 7:02 am

The man behind Primaris is the man that was behind Air1, the premium airline that flew out of St Louis w/ an all first class configuration. Didn't work then, won't work now.


 
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ERJ170
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RE: Primaris Airlines

Thu Dec 16, 2004 7:17 am

If you try it enough times, it has to work at some point.. at least he is persistant.. got to give that to him!
Aiming High and going far..
 
n685fe
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RE: Primaris Airlines

Thu Dec 16, 2004 7:17 am


Don't forget that Primaris is the first U.S. airline to place firm orders for the 7E7.

http://www.boeing.com/news/releases/2004/q4/nr_041021g.html

psp. lead by example
 
DfwRevolution
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RE: Primaris Airlines

Thu Dec 16, 2004 7:26 am

Don't forget that Primaris is the first U.S. airline to place firm orders for the 7E7.

They aren't firm yet.....

If they get in the air, I don't think it will be for long.

One the contrary, Privatair and others have been using an all-premium business model for years with reasonable success. Primaris is much closer to these concepts than it is to Legend and others.....
 
boeingbus
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RE: Primaris Airlines

Thu Dec 16, 2004 7:26 am

wishful thinking n658fe, the order hasn't been firmed up yet...
Airbus or Boeing - it's all good to me!
 
N1120A
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RE: Primaris Airlines

Thu Dec 16, 2004 7:34 am

>One the contrary, Privatair and others have been using an all-premium business model for years with reasonable success. <

PrivatAir has only been flying the all business scheduled flights (actually flown for LH on wetlease) for a few years now, but LH has found them successful on less dense routes. Before that though, Privatair was just a Biz jet provider.
What Primaris says they want to do is offer true all business service at fares that look more like full fare Y class, like $500 RT LAX-JFK-LAX and $800 RT LAX-FRA-LAX

>Primaris is much closer to these concepts than it is to Legend and others.....<

Legend tried to fly old, less efficient planes (DC-9s) at reduced capacity because they wanted to fly long routes out of DAL. AA bashed them by doing the same thing with their F-100s. Primaris is using planes that are much more efficient and better suited to an all premium configuration
Mangeons les French fries, mais surtout pratiquons avec fierte le French kiss
 
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ERJ170
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RE: Primaris Airlines

Thu Dec 16, 2004 8:09 am

Don't forget that Primaris expansion cities include some that do not currently have much long haul flights.. that, too, could make a difference... After the basic cities are covered (NYC, LAX, ATL, SoFL), their expansion cities is actually very impressive.. includes cities that could probably do with some longhaul without a lot of seats to have to fill, but cities that would pay the Primaris fare..

Atlanta, Boston, Charlotte, Chicago, Cleveland, Dallas, Denver, Detroit, Houston, Kansas City, Las Vegas, Los Angeles, Miami, Minneapolis, New Orleans, New York, Pittsburgh, Phoenix, Portland, Raleigh Durham, Salt Lake City, Seattle, St. Louis, Tampa, Frankfurt, London, Paris, Montreal, Toronto, Hong Kong, Tokyo, Amsterdam, Seoul, Taipe, Mexico City

*cities in green are very good candidates wtih very little international service..
*cities in yellow are obvious choices..
Aiming High and going far..
 
chrisjake
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RE: Primaris Airlines

Thu Dec 16, 2004 8:36 am

i'm assuming people have checked out their site, but if not check this out:

http://www.primarisairlines.com/plan/route.htm



chris
 
n685fe
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RE: Primaris Airlines

Thu Dec 16, 2004 10:35 am

I am not arguing, but if these orders aren't firm then the deal for the 20 737-800 and 25 options are not either.

I went back to Boeing press releases about the 7E7 customers, ANA's order for 50 is described as a firm order and a launch customer. http://www.newairplane.com/en-US/News/7E7Launch.htm

The July 7,04 press release for Blue Panorama and First Choise Airways says that they are the "first in Europe to choose the 7E7...."
"Contract negotiations are expected to conclude later this year."
"...these airlines join the launch team,"
"Boeing has proposal acceptances out to more than two dozen airlines around the world and expects additional orders in the coming months." http://www.newairplane.com/en-US/News/7E7InEurope.htm

And now the press release about Primaris says that they have "chosen" the 7E7. "The airline announced plans to purchase 20 737-800s and 20 7E7-8s, with options for an additional 25 737-800s and 15 7E7-8s."
"Contract negotiations are expected to conclude later this year. Deliveries of the 737-800s will begin in 2007 and the 7E7-8s in 2010."
"Primaris is the first low-cost carrier to select the 7E7 Dreamliner. "
"Primaris joins a growing team of 7E7 launch customers including ANA (All Nippon Airways), a regional and international carrier; Air New Zealand, a long-haul airline; and Europe's Blue Panorama and First Choice, both leisure and scheduled-service carriers. Negotiations continue with additional launch team customers worldwide. " http://www.boeing.com/news/releases/2004/q4/nr_041021g.html

So Primaris is placed in the same pool as the rest of the launch customers which are described as firm or planned. Can someone please straighten out the correct number of firm vs. the number of planned orders and who they are for?

psp. lead by example
 
DfwRevolution
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RE: Primaris Airlines

Thu Dec 16, 2004 11:02 am

So Primaris is placed in the same pool as the rest of the launch customers which are described as firm or planned.

Yes... they are pending a firm order, meaning they are probably at the LoI or MuI stage.

Can someone please straighten out the correct number of firm vs. the number of planned orders and who they are for?


Firm Orders-
30 7E7-3 for ANA
20 7E7-8 for ANA
2 7E7-8 for Air New Zealand

LoI/MuI-
Primaris
First Choice
Blue Panorama
Vietnam Airlines
 
n685fe
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RE: Primaris Airlines

Thu Dec 16, 2004 11:29 am

DfwRevolution thanks for responding, could you explain LoI or MuI stage.

Thanks in advance.

psp. lead by example
 
DfwRevolution
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RE: Primaris Airlines

Thu Dec 16, 2004 11:47 am

DfwRevolution thanks for responding, could you explain LoI or MuI stage.

They are basically stages of aircraft purchase. If Airline X wants to buy some 250 seat long-haulers, they have several options, but they begin by soliciting request to both Airbus and Boeing. The manufactures present their aircraft, pricing, options, engines, maintenance and support deals, pilot training, ect.

Let's say Airline X pickes the Boeing 7E7-9 for their needs. The deal isn't done yet, but since the parties involved want to go get wasted, they'd like to announce the deal publically and pop open the champaign. The following press confrence usually announces the LoI, or Letter of Intent.

Once the hang-over wears off, it is time to negotiate the finer points of the purchase. What engines will be selected? How will the aircraft be financed? What will the delivery schedule be? All this must be worked out before the aircraft order is firmed, but by this point, the airline has usually placed a refundable deposit to garuntee certain delivery slots.

Now that the terms of purchase have been agreed to, a MoI, or Memorandum of Understanding is signed. This signals that Airline X and Boeing have agreed on the exact terms for the purchase. Once the deposit for the down payment has been payed, the order is "firmed."

*But* it isn't done yet. The airline doesn't pay for the entire aircraft all at once. They actually pay in segments as the aircraft reach different stages of production. If the aircraft is being purchased with no long-term financing, the aircraft isn't fully paid for until ~75% production.