BlueSky1976
Topic Author
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Rumor: No 7E7 For LOT...

Fri Dec 17, 2004 7:13 am

Allegedly the deal fell through because of the labor union protest. I've read about it on the usenet. Could anyone confirm, please?

POLAND IS UNDER DICTATORSHIP. PLEASE SUPPORT COMMITTEE FOR DEFENSE OF DEMOCRACY, K.O.D.
 
Rj111
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RE: Rumor: No 7E7 For LOT...

Fri Dec 17, 2004 7:41 am

I'm starting to worry about this 7e7, i hope things pick up soon for Boeing. Especially as this project is a risk unlike the A350.
 
MidnightMike
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RE: Rumor: No 7E7 For LOT...

Fri Dec 17, 2004 8:10 am

Rj111

Project Risk? What risk are you talking about? They still have another "2" years to sell more 7E7's & even then, the 7E7 does not come out till 2008.
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planemaker
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RE: Rumor: No 7E7 For LOT...

Fri Dec 17, 2004 8:34 am

This article from Aviation Daily seems to indicate that the delay may be due to the prospects of a possible joint Star Alliance order next year...

http://www.aviationnow.com/avnow/news/channel_aviationdaily_story.jsp?id=news/STAR12154.xml
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Aither
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RE: Rumor: No 7E7 For LOT...

Fri Dec 17, 2004 9:39 am

Don't worry the 7E7 will sell well. The replacement market only could make the program profitable and wait for the recovery of US Airlines.
Never trust the obvious
 
Jaws707
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RE: Rumor: No 7E7 For LOT...

Fri Dec 17, 2004 10:47 am

I wouldnt hold my breath on a star alliance joint order anytime soon, the last time they tried that with a regional get it didnt work at all as every carrier has needs that are just a little bit different.
 
Trvlr
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RE: Rumor: No 7E7 For LOT...

Fri Dec 17, 2004 3:25 pm

Labor union protest? Can anyone expand on this?

Aaron G.
 
Rj111
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RE: Rumor: No 7E7 For LOT...

Fri Dec 17, 2004 5:34 pm

Project Risk? What risk are you talking about? They still have another "2" years to sell more 7E7's & even then, the 7E7 does not come out till 2008.

Every project is a risk

What i was pointing out primarly is that the A350 will probably get government support so if things cock up Airbus dont loose out.

I'll reming you the MD-11 had a lot of orders before it flew.

 
OHLHD
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RE: Rumor: No 7E7 For LOT...

Fri Dec 17, 2004 11:46 pm

I wouldn´t bet on a joint Star Alliance order, as this was rumored a year ago that they would order at least 100 regional jets. Instead everybody went there own way ( OS took F100 out of the desert, UAX Embrear, etc....)

Anyway, if LOT, OS or SK order 7E7, expect it to not more than a max of 25 to 30 airframes.
 
airbazar
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RE: Rumor: No 7E7 For LOT...

Fri Dec 17, 2004 11:51 pm

Allegedly the deal fell through because of the labor union protest

Translation: We just let you in into the EU and now you're going to buy American? I don't think so  Smile
 
ZKOJH
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RE: Rumor: No 7E7 For LOT...

Sat Dec 18, 2004 4:14 am

well both ana and nz have ordered the 7e7 , 2 star airlines, and lot should, as there star, but don't panic boeing are still expecting 200 orders before the years out on the 7e7, it will be a great christmas gift if they get it, just 15 days to the end of the year tho!!

Vietnam time..
 
Hirnie
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RE: Rumor: No 7E7 For LOT...

Sat Dec 18, 2004 5:02 am

That`s a 13.333333333333... frames a day Boeing has to sell...hmmm

"Translation: We just let you in into the EU and now you're going to buy American? I don't think so "
Very funny
 
ckfred
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RE: Rumor: No 7E7 For LOT...

Sat Dec 18, 2004 5:14 am

More like, "We let you in the EU, you bought F-16s from Lockheed Martin, and now you want to buy Boeings replace your current Boeing fleet?"
 
konrad
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RE: Rumor: No 7E7 For LOT

Sat Dec 18, 2004 5:38 am

I'm starting to worry about LOT.

They have ongoing management- labor union disputes,
strange (to say the least) expansion strategy - setting
up a low cost that will eat into their own marketshare -
and a lot of aggresive competition, both LCC and classic.

One year from now LOT might be gone unless they pull
an Olympic/Alitalia (stunt).
 
BlueSky1976
Topic Author
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RE: Rumor: No 7E7 For LOT...

Sat Dec 18, 2004 10:42 am

To all bringin politics into the topic:

The story has it, that LOT made a selection of the aircraft and they chose 7E7 over A330/350. They had a contract that was to be signed at the time of the meeting. Allegedly, the union reps raised hell that LOT would rather spend money on new aircraft instead of giving its employees salary raises. So entire deal fell apart. Too bad...


Edit: From what I heard thru grapevine, union actually preferred Boeing product over Airbus. The management wanted to go with A330-200.


[Edited 2004-12-18 02:51:58]
POLAND IS UNDER DICTATORSHIP. PLEASE SUPPORT COMMITTEE FOR DEFENSE OF DEMOCRACY, K.O.D.
 
DfwRevolution
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RE: Rumor: No 7E7 For LOT...

Sat Dec 18, 2004 11:18 am

What i was pointing out primarly is that the A350 will probably get government support so if things cock up Airbus dont loose out. I'll reming you the MD-11 had a lot of orders before it flew.

And yet... the 737-200, 757, A320 all had relativly slow starts, only to pick-up rapidly later in life. The 777 also took 4 years to sell 100 copies. The inital sales years (and today the 7E7 stands at exactly 1 year ATO) are almost meaningless to the life of the aircraft...

The replacement market for 767s at UA, AA, CO, DL alone are enough to reach Boeing's break even goal of roughly 500 units.....
 
whitehatter
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RE: Rumor: No 7E7 For LOT...

Sat Dec 18, 2004 11:33 am

The 7E7 can be judged a success or failure on the day after the last one is sold.

Somehow the kiddies think all sales need to be before the prototype flies.

Bull as usual. The only significant figure is that one twenty or more years into the future when Boeing sells the last example to come off the line.

There may well be as many as Boeing states are in the pipeline, but financing isn't like going to a car dealer and signing a credit agreement. Billions of dollars of financing takes a lot of time to come together and sometimes doesn't run to the schedules the parties expect. In that respect the year-end sales issue is somewhat meaningless as it depends on so many outside variables. Boeing might have hoped to have closed 200 by then, but those deals may be waiting on financing and approvals which haven't yet been signed off.

A better time to judge program performance would be a couple of years after EIS and the orderbook then.

As for the A350, plenty of crap being spewed there too. Airbus was testing some tech on the A340 prototype over two years ago for winglet and wing improvement. That particular program may only recently have come into the light, but the design and test work started quite some time ago in the Airbus research division. It is by no means a rushed, knee-jerk reaction.
Lead me not into temptation, I can find my own way there...
 
Rj111
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RE: Rumor: No 7E7 For LOT...

Sat Dec 18, 2004 6:08 pm

And yet... the 737-200, 757, A320 all had relativly slow starts, only to pick-up rapidly later in life. The 777 also took 4 years to sell 100 copies. The inital sales years (and today the 7E7 stands at exactly 1 year ATO) are almost meaningless to the life of the aircraft...

Somehow the kiddies think all sales need to be before the prototype flies.


I just said it could still be a failure if it sold shitloads before EIS  Innocent ,I doubt it will though.

http://www.airliners.net/discussions/general_aviation/read.main/1830723/6/

[Edited 2004-12-18 10:10:15]