WF2BNN
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Passengers Visiting The Flight Deck After 9/11

Fri Dec 17, 2004 9:50 am

Hi all of you a.net old-timers out there. I have been going to airliners.net for over 3 years, almost daily, and my favorite has always been the forum – just haven’t felt I knew enough about airlines and airplanes before to join as a member, but today I decided that it was time to join the club as a Christmas gift to myself.

I have always loved planes and experience of flying then. Since I was a little boy, I have some times asked if I could visit the cockpit – witch I most of the times before 9/11 was allowed to. I have been to Dash 6, 7, and 8 (WF), DC9 and 10 (SK), MD80 (SK) and 11 (AY), numerous 737 cockpits, and the one I am most proud over is, was on a KL flight from AMS to JFK in 1997. This was on a 747-400 when I was 15 – the pilots allowed me to turn one of the autopilot knobs so that the plane turned left and we passed a tri jet of some kind. I remember that one of the pilots told me that the 747 was the fastest commercial plane except the Concorde.

Well anyways guys, to my real mission with this topic (witch I have searched the forum for but not found anything on, if some of you found something – tell me how to find it).

After 9/11 I have not been into a cockpit, other that the planes I have been in uniform on (flying to and from MIR on LBT and KAJ when I worked as a tourist guide earlier this year). I asked a couple of times after 9/11, but was told that the airlines had new rules – so it was forbidden to visit the cockpit.
My question to all of you guys out there is; what are the rules on this (now and before 9/11). Is there an absolute no-no to allow a passenger into the cockpit, ore is it up to the captain?

Hope anyone can help me answer this question.

Hope my first post is ok and on the subject,

Best regards,

WF2BNN
What goes up, must come down.
 
trex8
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RE: Passengers Visiting The Flight Deck After 9/11

Fri Dec 17, 2004 9:58 am

I believe the restrictions are only when the aircraft is in the air as I have been asked several times if I wanted to go into the cockpit on the ground.
 
WF2BNN
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RE: Passengers Visiting The Flight Deck After 9/11

Fri Dec 17, 2004 10:33 am

In all countries? On all airliners?
Does anyone know the official rules for the major airlines, and are these rules set by the airlines themselves ore are they set by the government of their origin country?

Thanks for your help

Best regards,

Mats
What goes up, must come down.
 
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Starlionblue
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RE: Passengers Visiting The Flight Deck After 9/11

Fri Dec 17, 2004 10:48 am

Well, the rules vary from country to country, and from airline to airline. Of course, national rules supersede airline rules.

In the US, cockpit visits while the plane was not at the gate were forbidden even before 9/11. After 9/11, most airlines instituted such policies. However, I landed in the jumpseat of a Malmö Aviation Avro 100 almost a year after 9/11. They didn't really see themselves as a target. Probably rightly so.

A couple of friends of mine who have contacts at a flight academy have been able to ride in the jumpseat of airliners on several occasions in the last few years, but this has taken preapproval by the captain and the airline.

So my suggestion is that you go to some non-European or North American country. Even 747Skipper said he had no problems arranging jumpseat rides on domestic Aerolineas flights. You might also try flirting with customer relations departments at airlines, although you will need a good excuse ("I am filming a docu", etc...)
"There are no stupid questions, but there are a lot of inquisitive idiots." - John Ringo
 
airbear
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RE: Passengers Visiting The Flight Deck After 9/11

Fri Dec 17, 2004 11:07 am

I tried to visit the flight deck of a CX 773 a few weeks ago, after we had parked at the gate and all the pax were getting off. I asked, waved my camera and all, but the answer came back a very firm NO.
 
Newark777
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RE: Passengers Visiting The Flight Deck After 9/11

Fri Dec 17, 2004 11:10 am

I remember going up to the cockpit it pre-9/11 days, but I haven't tried to ask since then. On a recent JetBlue flight, the cabin was pretty empty because of a delay, and I asked to go to the cabin, but the crew said no. After the plane landed, I got a quick shot of the cockpit with my camera, but got a very angry stare from the flight attendant and the captain.  Sad
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calpilot
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RE: Passengers Visiting The Flight Deck After 9/11

Fri Dec 17, 2004 11:44 am

I have no problem with a passenger coming to my cockpit before, or after the flight if time, and workload permits.
 
Newark777
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RE: Passengers Visiting The Flight Deck After 9/11

Fri Dec 17, 2004 11:47 am

Calpilot-
Do you know if your policy on cockpit visits is shared by many of your fellow CO pilots? I fly CO a lot and it would be good to know if they have a relatively open policy about cockpit visits.  Smile
Why grab a Heine when you can grab a Busch?
 
DeltaGuy
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RE: Passengers Visiting The Flight Deck After 9/11

Fri Dec 17, 2004 11:56 am

Really the best rule to remember is- DONT ASK THE FA'S!!! They'll usually make up a BS reason as to why you can't go up...I had one ASA F/A a few months ago who insisted I give her photo ID to give to the Capt before I go up...I just sorta slipped by and made it in and chatted with the guys up front, no harm done...alot of the FA's just make it up as you go along. Other times, they love to help ya get up there.

99% of the time the guys up front love to see you...just make sure they're not runnin late/have a problem with the jet. Aviation wasn't ever intended to be a selfish field, so why should the pilots treat you any less? I've had nothing but positive experiences when armed with just a smile and a warm handshake  Smile/happy/getting dizzy

DeltaGuy
"The cockpit, what is it?" "It's the little room in the front of the plane where the pilot sits, but that's not importan
 
JAFA
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RE: Passengers Visiting The Flight Deck After 9/11

Fri Dec 17, 2004 11:59 am

NWA is happy to provide FLIGHT DECK visits when the plane is on the ground. Sometimes due to lack of time this is not possible. Before the flight is probably the worse time since there is a lot to do. After the flight is much better assuming the crew doesn't have a tight connecting flight to work or commute home on. Chances are at least one of the pilots can show you around quick or give you the full tour with stick shaker and takeoff warning sounds.
 
DLX737200
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RE: Passengers Visiting The Flight Deck After 9/11

Fri Dec 17, 2004 12:05 pm

Hey man! Welcome to the forums as a member!

I have flown my 52 flight in my life just this past November and all but probably 4/5 flights, I have gained access to the cockpit either prior or after the flight. Most of my flights have been on DL where most of the pilots/FAs love letting you see the cockpit but the few I was rejected when asking to visit the cockpit included Comair, a couple DL 767s, and a Ryan Air (operating for FL at the time) A320. Other than that, no problem. Keep in mind too, all but 4 of the 52 flights have been post-9/11. It must be my youthful innocence of being 17  Big thumbs up

-Justin
 
TVCFlyer
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RE: Passengers Visiting The Flight Deck After 9/11

Fri Dec 17, 2004 12:50 pm

After a flight from Orlando to Grand Rapids this year, my 4 year old got to sit in the pilots seat on a NW DC-9. I shot video and took a couple stills. Very friendly pilots.

Kind of funny seeing such a young kid in such an old flight deck!

[Edited 2004-12-17 04:52:21]
 
kith
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RE: Passengers Visiting The Flight Deck After 9/11

Fri Dec 17, 2004 12:53 pm

Last march on a UA A320 from ORD-LGA I went up front for an hour and a half. We had our engines shut down and were in the "penalty box" due to winds in LGA. Really nice pilots, we were laughing at other pilots landings, arguing about different models of the 767-'s that would pass by. Helps always to grease the wheels w/ an airline mag you just finished. Really made me a UA fan. -Matt in KITH
 
57AZ
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RE: Passengers Visiting The Flight Deck After 9/11

Fri Dec 17, 2004 1:32 pm

Never had a problem with the DL pilots. Back in the 1990s, I flew DL to Seoul and got to go to the flight deck on both MD-11s that we flew on. We were in the second row of the first class cabin and noted the flight deck door ajar, We mentioned to the F/A that we were involved in General Aviation, had heard a lot about the MD-11s and wondered if the pilots would mind us getting a look at the flightdeck if they had a moment. She mentioned this to the pilots and we were very quickly invited up for a look around. The captain told us all about the instrumention while the first officer got the flight clearance.

While at Texas A&M Aviation Camp, our senior counselor made arrangements with the station manager at Pensecola to get us access to the MD-88 that laid over nightly for the first flight out each morning. He agreed to help out and had a ground handler meet us extra early one morning. He hooked the aircraft up to ground power so that our counselor, a DL MD-88 captain could power up the aircraft electrical system and show us his office. Each of us got to sit in either the captain's or first officer's seat on our visit. Our counselor explained the various instrumentation, set off the GPWS and Fire Alarm audible warnings and really gave us a feel for the aircraft. Those who were awaiting or had had their turns in the front office poked and prowled through the cabin, trying out the interphone system and other things. We wound up the visit just as the assigned flight crew came down the jetway to the plane. They probably wondered why our group was just coming off a bird that had been parked there overnight.
"When a man runs on railroads over half of his lifetime he is fit for nothing else-and at times he don't know that."
 
ordflyer
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RE: Passengers Visiting The Flight Deck After 9/11

Fri Dec 17, 2004 1:58 pm

I've never been turned away when asking to visit the cockpt after the flight before or after 9/11. It seems most crews are happy to have visitors if they aren't in a hurry to get somewhere as Jafa said.
Really the best rule to remember is- DONT ASK THE FA'S!
That's good advice! The captain has final say anyways so its better off to just ask them directly.
Now if you're talking about visiting the cockpit in flight...the US is very strict with that after 9/11 and definitely won't happen. I have heard several stories of European airlines still allowing jumpseat riders once in awhile even after 9/11 but it seems to be rare and pretty much based on luck.
 
StevenUhl777
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RE: Passengers Visiting The Flight Deck After 9/11

Fri Dec 17, 2004 4:24 pm

I too have never been turned away from a flight deck visit.

On my way to FRA, I asked if I could go up before takeoff, but the f/a said it was better to do so after we landed. So, I was able to visit the flight deck of N174UA after arriving in FRA and sat in the captain's seat as the f/o (Sal) answered my questions. I was able to point out to him several instruments beyond the typical ones and he told me he was impressed with what I new and that I knew my way around the flight deck. That made my day! I noticed though that none of the cleaning crew could come on board to start working until EVERY passenger was off the aircraft.

Similar instance on my way home, LHR-ORD on the 777, UA949. I was able to go up to the flight deck (first time on the 777) after we arrived in ORD, and again, the f/o was VERY kind and spent time answering mine and another lady's questions as well. We left the aircraft, and again, the cleaning crew wasn't allowed on until I was out. I walked to customs at ORD with the same f/a and asked her about the flight, etc.

Two more examples of the amazing professionalism displayed by UNITED AIRLINES!!!!  Smile  Big thumbs up
And the winner for best actress is....REESE WITHERSPOON for 'Walk the Line'!!!!!!!!
 
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HAWK21M
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RE: Passengers Visiting The Flight Deck After 9/11

Fri Dec 17, 2004 6:38 pm

Unless you know the Flight crew its tough.
Officiall NO in Air.
Although on Ground a possibility.
regds
MEL
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Saleem
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RE: Passengers Visiting The Flight Deck After 9/11

Fri Dec 17, 2004 6:39 pm

Yes, lot of times, the private airlines of Pakistan does not allow but PIA often. In PIA it mostly depends on Captain, who normally allow. However, if you know someone, which I do, then it is mush easier.

However, definitely, there is much change in attitude of cabin crew pre and post 9-11, which is very unfortunate for aviation lovers and enjoyment of landing from cockpit is altogether a different experience.

However, keeping in view overall security situation it is now must to implement security rules strictly for safer traveling, as it is difficult for crew to judge for any person.
 
777ER
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RE: Passengers Visiting The Flight Deck After 9/11

Fri Dec 17, 2004 7:28 pm

Early this year I was allowed a jump-seat ride from AKL-WLG at night time on NZ.
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ChrisZRH
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RE: Passengers Visiting The Flight Deck After 9/11

Fri Dec 17, 2004 9:16 pm

I doubt it's possible to have a visit on the flight deck in AIR if you do not know anyone from the crew

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my latest jump-seat ride... to all guys out there: better than any first class seat in the world  Smile/happy/getting dizzy

chris
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CV990A
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RE: Passengers Visiting The Flight Deck After 9/11

Fri Dec 17, 2004 10:44 pm

I got invited up after a flight on DL LGW-CVG. It was one of the last MD-11 flights on that route, and I had the seat across the aisle from the crew rest, and when the Captain came back, he turned out to be the chatty type, so we started talking, and I mentioned I was a pilot, and he commented that he wished I could come up with him for landing, but instead said for me to go up after arrival- without my even having to ask! It really was a great experience.
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Sabena332
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RE: Passengers Visiting The Flight Deck After 9/11

Fri Dec 17, 2004 10:49 pm

I know someone who knows someone who can organize jumpseat flights Big grin:


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NIKV69
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RE: Passengers Visiting The Flight Deck After 9/11

Fri Dec 17, 2004 10:49 pm

I have had the worse luck, no cabin crew has been too accomadating, especially since I have a camera with me! Embarrassment
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PanAm747
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RE: Passengers Visiting The Flight Deck After 9/11

Sat Dec 18, 2004 6:04 am

Last May, I flew SAN-LAX-ORD to fly in a United 747-422  Love . When I boarded, I made small talk with the flight attendants. It didn't hurt being in an emergency exit row seated directly across from one of them!! I started chatting about planes, and found that most f/a's are thrilled to have someone who knows about the business!!

I asked (very quietly when no one else was around) if I could visit the cockpit after we landed in Chicago. I knew we were on time AND that the flight was not continuing on, so my chances were good. I got an enthusiastic yes!!

When we arrived, I allowed all the other passengers to disembark, and I was escorted by several fascinated flight attendants to the cockpit...apparently, we enthusiasts are a dying breed, or we don't let our presence be known. I mentioned that it was my first trip to the top deck (and that I specifically chose this flight to fly on a 744), and most mentioned it was their favorite plane to fly.

When we got to the cockpit, I assumed I would only get a quick peek inside...WRONG!! The f/a asked me, "would you like to be in the picture?". My reply - "OF COURSE!!"  Big thumbs up Which of us would turn that down? I sat in the jump seat and had two wonderful pictures made!!

I thanked everyone profusely, and told them this would always be one of the highlights of my life. They were quite amused  Nuts Anyway, if any of y'all would like to see the pictures, I can't post them here, but I'd be happy to e-mail the to you!!  Smokin cool
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zvezda
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RE: Passengers Visiting The Flight Deck After 9/11

Sat Dec 18, 2004 6:46 am

Even post-9/11, I've never been turned down by either SU or TE. TE probably has only about a dozen pilots for their 3 B737s and most of them know me now and that I'm good about spotting traffic and maintaining a sterile cockpit during approach and landing.

On an SU flight into PVG last year, the captain asked me to man the radio because they were having difficulties communicating with the Chinese ATC. I could understand ATC despite the accents. The FO could generally understand what I repeated back to ATC, but I nevertheless translated everything ATC said into Russian just to be sure.  Smile
 
Springbok747
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RE: Passengers Visiting The Flight Deck After 9/11

Sat Dec 18, 2004 7:31 am

I wanted to visit the cockpit on several flights, but I was turned down on all occassions. The worst was on QF, the FA just said..."NO, no one is allowed, those are the rules!"  Sad

אני תומך בישראל
 
geoffm
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RE: Passengers Visiting The Flight Deck After 9/11

Sat Dec 18, 2004 8:25 am

BA don't appear to have a specific rule banning it - it seems up to the captain. Of my last few flights when I asked (after landing), only 1 turned me down, and even then he gave me a postcard of the 767 I had just flown on!

I agree with the comments above about asking the cockpit crew directly, rather than the flight attendants.

Geoff M.
 
L410Turbolet
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RE: Passengers Visiting The Flight Deck After 9/11

Sat Dec 18, 2004 8:26 am

When returning from an absolutely fantastic holidays in Sicilly two years ago, all 4 of us were invited to see the cockpit of Travel Service's 737-400 inflight. The crew (both cockpit and cabin) was really nice and pretty easygoing.

The truth is, there were something like total of 6 or 8 pax onboard since it was the very last scheduled charter flight from of the season, so it might have been a contributing factor.
 
wdleiser
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RE: Passengers Visiting The Flight Deck After 9/11

Sat Dec 18, 2004 9:12 am

This past year I have been allowed in the CP on Lufthansa several times, you are NOT allowed when in the USA though, and US airlines I am pretty much sure prohibit it on any flight even over INTL airspace.
 
jhooper
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RE: Passengers Visiting The Flight Deck After 9/11

Sat Dec 18, 2004 9:48 am

57AZ ,

What is Texas A&M Aviation Camp? I went to A&M and flew out at Easterwood all the time. I've never heard of this camp.
Last year 1,944 New Yorkers saw something and said something.
 
ZKSUJ
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RE: Passengers Visiting The Flight Deck After 9/11

Sat Dec 18, 2004 1:47 pm

Welcome to A.NET. I hope you enjoy your stay.
I can say that I have relarives and friends at SQ, and in SQ flight deck visits are a big No No.
For the pilots, they will loose their jobs if this rule is broken, so it is not a question opf hospitality on SQ, but a matter of Job Security for SQ Flight crew staff.
I myself have never visited the flight deck in my life. The closest I have got ios on FS2004. However I hope to change this next year when I am scheduled to start flight traing in a bid to fly for an airline in the near future.

777ER-Do NZ allow FD visits?
 
NZ747
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RE: Passengers Visiting The Flight Deck After 9/11

Sat Dec 18, 2004 2:13 pm

SUJ, NZ do not offer visits, unless pre-arranged. You can often still get jump seat on AirNZ link aircraft.

I myself used to ride jump seat lots before Sept 11. Once in A 747 while landing at Nadi, and full flight jump seat rides in 737's and 767's.
I have asked since, and I just get the same excuse about 'not after sept 11....'

The will sometimes let you visit before takeoff and after landing if you ask nicely.

But as you said, dont worry, plenty of flight deck visits next year  Big grin

 
ZKSUJ
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RE: Passengers Visiting The Flight Deck After 9/11

Sat Dec 18, 2004 2:19 pm

NZ747, in about five/six or so years we'll be the guys making the desicions about jumpseat visits  Big grin