lincoln
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Question: Upper Deck On 747 Freighters

Fri Dec 17, 2004 3:36 pm

Just out of curiosity... On 747 Freighers, what is the upper deck (aft of the flightdeck, of course) used for?

For some reason, I had this vision of them carrying regular (i.e. pax version) seating on the upper deck, perhaps because most pictures I've seen have the normal row of windows up there -- even if there aren't any mainlevel windows, for example:

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Photo © Miguel Cláudio
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Photo © Michael Carter


but while looking at the pictures of NW 747 Freighters from another thread, I noticed that they don't have any windows at all up there:

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Photo © Sokol Ymeri
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Photo © Michael Carter


Which made me think:

What is the upper deck used for? Now that I think of it, regular pax seating configuration would make absolutely no sense... Some seating for deadheading crew would make some sense to me (doesn't mean it happens). Crew rest would make a lot of sense, but without windows I would imagine it would be a tad tight/dark... Plus that seems like a ton of space if all of it is used for crew rest.

Also, just out of curiosity are there flight deck doors on 74s in cargo service? How about lavs (I had never thought about it...Then again, with the length of some flights I would imagine it as a necessity)

Thanks,

Lincoln
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Lono
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RE: Question: Upper Deck On 747 Freighters

Fri Dec 17, 2004 3:55 pm

Non Rev PAX!!!
I remember flying on the Tiger out of ANC.... sitting upstairs... they had a F/A to deal with the N/R's.... It was awesome... if there was space you were on!!! better than any First Class service I have ever experienced anywhere.. and it was for us N/R's!!!!
Ahh the good old days...
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N867BX
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RE: Question: Upper Deck On 747 Freighters

Fri Dec 17, 2004 4:54 pm

My mom was a maintenance controller at NW (retired now) I had the opportunity to take a walk thru a 74F right after a C check. Its been about 20 years but I seem to remember only the front half of the upper deck had a floor. The back half of the upper deck was without a floor and one could see the main deck thru a maze of wires and cables. A net was in place to prevent a person from falling onto the main deck, but I suppose the wires and cables would catch em anyways. If I remember correctly their were 6 seats (or was it 12) and yes there was a door on the cockpit. I sure someone out there knows way more than me on this subject.
 
FlySSC
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RE: Question: Upper Deck On 747 Freighters

Fri Dec 17, 2004 6:03 pm

There is something like this :

UPS B742F + Cargolux B744F :

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Photo © Tim Lane
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Photo © Jonathan Rankin



Used by the Crew and additionnal crew during long flights and/or Non-Rev PAX, when the airline accept them on Cargos...
 
LAXintl
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RE: Question: Upper Deck On 747 Freighters

Fri Dec 17, 2004 6:47 pm

One of the best ways to fly!

Many cargo B747s have both first class style seats and crew rest bunks.
From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
 
A350
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RE: Question: Upper Deck On 747 Freighters

Fri Dec 17, 2004 8:14 pm

And how will the upper deck of converted former pax 744s look like? What do they do with all that room? Is it possible to put small containers there?

A350
 
nosedive
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RE: Question: Upper Deck On 747 Freighters

Fri Dec 17, 2004 8:35 pm

And how will the upper deck of converted former pax 744s look like? What do they do with all that room? Is it possible to put small containers there?

For such a small area, the costs of installing a cargo door for the upper deck would not be worth it....Also, I'm not sure if any container is suited for the upper deck, again another cost
 
Spacepope
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RE: Question: Upper Deck On 747 Freighters

Fri Dec 17, 2004 11:05 pm

The back half of the converted 744SF upper decks will be just like the 743SF upper decks: not used. The floor of the upper deck intrudes down into the main deck cargo space, and unless that floor is removed/moved upwards, you cannot fit full-height pallets in there. Look closely at photos of 743SFs (Dragonair, and the KE photo in the thread starter) and you'll notice the windows on the rear half have been eliminated.
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Clipper002
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RE: Question: Upper Deck On 747 Freighters

Fri Dec 17, 2004 11:09 pm

Polar's upper decks are fitted with bunks for crew rest facilities on flights that require an augmented crew. I believe Atlas has the same thing.

Ed
Ed
 
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Starlionblue
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RE: Question: Upper Deck On 747 Freighters

Fri Dec 17, 2004 11:23 pm

Just a note: On new build 744Fs the upper deck is the one from the 742. So there is not all that much space.
"There are no stupid questions, but there are a lot of inquisitive idiots." - John Ringo
 
PhilSquares
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RE: Question: Upper Deck On 747 Freighters

Sat Dec 18, 2004 12:44 am

At SQ we have 6 first class style seats in the upper bunk, just like Cargolux. We also have 2 bunks at the rear of the upper deck for augmented crews.

It is not uncommon to carry grooms when you are transporting horses. I that case, you would have the grooms ride in the upper deck. Total occupancy of the upper deck and cockpit can't exceed 8 on the 744F.
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Byrdluvs747
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RE: Question: Upper Deck On 747 Freighters

Sat Dec 18, 2004 1:04 am


It is not uncommon to carry grooms when you are transporting horses


In such a case, would they be allowed on the main deck while in flight to check on the horse?
The 747: The hands who designed it were guided by god.
 
PhilSquares
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RE: Question: Upper Deck On 747 Freighters

Sat Dec 18, 2004 1:07 am

Yes, in a case where grooms are along, they do have access to the main deck during flight. All they have to do is take a portable O2 bottle with them.
Fly fast, live slow
 
AV8AJET
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RE: Question: Upper Deck On 747 Freighters

Sat Dec 18, 2004 1:14 am

Someone could tell me if this is true: Didn't CargoLux have a regular passenger configured upper deck that they actually sold seats on for fare paying passengers on their B742F's?
"To fly or not to fly there is no question!"
 
Byrdluvs747
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RE: Question: Upper Deck On 747 Freighters

Sat Dec 18, 2004 1:19 am


All they have to do is take a portable O2 bottle with them.


Why the need for the O2 bottle? The main deck has to be pressurized for the horse. Is it for emergency purposes?
The 747: The hands who designed it were guided by god.
 
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Starlionblue
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RE: Question: Upper Deck On 747 Freighters

Sat Dec 18, 2004 1:20 am

Yes, in a case where grooms are along, they do have access to the main deck during flight. All they have to do is take a portable O2 bottle with them.

Just a clarification. The main deck is pressurized right? So I guess this is just a precaution? and dare I ask what would happen to the horses if the main deck depressurized?
"There are no stupid questions, but there are a lot of inquisitive idiots." - John Ringo
 
wbmech
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RE: Question: Upper Deck On 747 Freighters

Sat Dec 18, 2004 1:28 am

Just a guess but the POB is probably for the safety of the groom. There is no supplemental oxygen on the main deck of a freighter although on the upper deck it is still in the psu's as well as the pob's stored upstairs. IF a sudden depressurization occurs at altitude, who cares about the horses at that point. By the way, the main deck and upper deck are in the same pressure vessel therefore they would be at the same pressure altitude throughout the flight. The temps might be slightly off due to the different zones though.
 
PhilSquares
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RE: Question: Upper Deck On 747 Freighters

Sat Dec 18, 2004 1:41 am

On the 744F there is no supplemental O2 on the main deck. In case of a loss of pressurization the grooms need supplemental O2 and the only way to get is is with the POB. As far as the horses go, I guess that's what insurance is for.

The 744F does an extremely good job at maintaining temps on the main deck. In fact, the 744F has a different cargo temp system than the classic freighters. It's not uncommon to take cargo, such as medicine that has to be kept in a very specific temp range 5-7C. We can reconfigure the cooling to have just one compartment at that temp and yet have the other compartments at a more normal temp.
Fly fast, live slow
 
Tod
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RE: Question: Upper Deck On 747 Freighters

Sat Dec 18, 2004 2:18 am

And how will the upper deck of converted former pax 744s look like?

The u/d on the CX (B-HOU) 744SF that will be converted in Xiamen this spring will have the floor ending near the doors and I believe that the u/d floor beams aft of there will be modified. The 4U lav and existing interior forward of the doors will remain in place. I don't know if the J class seats remain.
 
N867BX
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RE: Question: Upper Deck On 747 Freighters

Sat Dec 18, 2004 12:20 pm

Could a horse install an oxygen mask with a hoof?
 
dbo861
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RE: Question: Upper Deck On 747 Freighters

Sat Dec 18, 2004 1:22 pm

"Someone could tell me if this is true: Didn't CargoLux have a regular passenger configured upper deck that they actually sold seats on for fare paying passengers on their B742F's?"

Is that even legal? For some reason, I thought it wasn't possible...but i could be totally mistaken.
 
ANCFlyer
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RE: Question: Upper Deck On 747 Freighters

Sat Dec 18, 2004 2:24 pm

dare I ask what would happen to the horses if the main deck depressurized?

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vfw614
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RE: Question: Upper Deck On 747 Freighters

Sun Dec 19, 2004 12:40 am

The father-in-law of a friend of mine is working for a cargo airline operating 742Fs. They are travelling non-rev to New York on the upper deck all the time (needless to say - and get dirt cheap hotel deals in New York through the airline as well....)
 
KBGRbillT
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RE: Question: Upper Deck On 747 Freighters

Sun Dec 19, 2004 12:59 am

Atlas and Polar 74F's usually have a combination of some seats, a table, small galley, and a crew rest(beds) area occupying the upper deck (non-SUD A/C).
 
DeltaRules
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RE: Question: Upper Deck On 747 Freighters

Sun Dec 19, 2004 11:02 am

Backing up what KBGR said, on the "World Air Routes" Atlas Air video, they show the upper deck of the Atlas 747-200F before the DFW-ATL leg & from what can be seen, there is a small passenger cabin similar to the ones shown above from UPS & Cargolux.

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HAVIK747
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RE: Question: Upper Deck On 747 Freighters

Mon Dec 20, 2004 12:18 pm

here is a link to KLMs 744ERF and upper deck

http://freightergame.klmcargo.com/747_400.htm#
 
VS346
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RE: Question: Upper Deck On 747 Freighters

Mon Dec 20, 2004 12:29 pm

Virgin-Atlantic: More experience than our name suggests