katanapilot
Posts: 157
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Man Tries To Open Door On 747 @ 30,000 Ft.

Sat Dec 18, 2004 7:15 am

On a Cathay Pacific flight

"Hong Kong - A passenger on a Tokyo-to-Hong Kong flight tried to open the emergency door of a jumbo jet at an altitude of more than 9 000m, a news report said on Friday.

Anthony Yeung, 37, partially twisted open the handle of the door on the flight on November 7 before cabin crew and a fellow passenger restrained him, the South China Morning Post reported.

At a court appearance on Thursday, sound engineer Yeung said he had heard "voices in his head" before trying to open the door on the Cathay Pacific flight, the newspaper said.

Yeung was charged with carrying out an act likely to endanger an aircraft and was released on bail until January 27. He was told to prepare medical records for his next appearance.

The case is the first of its kind to be brought in Hong Kong and the offence, under the Aviation Security Ordinance, carries a maximum jail term of life.

Speaking after the hearing, Cathay Pacific spokesperson Carolyn Leung said it was "almost impossible" to open an emergency door during flight because of the differences in air pressure.

Pilots are alerted if anyone touches the emergency doors, Leung said, so that staff can intercept any person attempting to tamper with them. - Sapa-dpa"

[http://www.iol.co.za/index.php?set_id=1&click_id=126&art_id=qw1103259064683B252]

I always wondered if that was possible!
don't know if there's already been a thread about this...don't care either.  Smile
 
A340600
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RE: Man Tries To Open Door On 747 @ 30,000 Ft.

Sat Dec 18, 2004 7:19 am

This has happened before. Thank god he didn't open it!

Some people are so stupid and selfish, there's 300 or so others to think of!

Sam
Despite the name I am a Boeing man through and through!
 
visityyj
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RE: Man Tries To Open Door On 747 @ 30,000 Ft.

Sat Dec 18, 2004 7:20 am

Yeung was charged with carrying out an act likely to endanger an aircraft and was released on bail until January 27. He was told to prepare medical records for his next appearance.

Speaking after the hearing, Cathay Pacific spokesperson Carolyn Leung said it was "almost impossible" to open an emergency door during flight because of the differences in air pressure.


So which is it, 'likely to endanger' or 'almost impossible' ?
(I know the answer BTW)
 
Newark777
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RE: Man Tries To Open Door On 747 @ 30,000 Ft.

Sat Dec 18, 2004 8:09 am

What would have happened if he had successfully opened the door? Would the plane have a disastrous decompression? There should be safeguards to prevent this type of thing from happening.
Why grab a Heine when you can grab a Busch?
 
SailorOrion
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RE: Man Tries To Open Door On 747 @ 30,000 Ft.

Sat Dec 18, 2004 8:13 am

Considering there are several tons of pressure on a single door, it is pretty likely that a human is not able to open such a door in-flight.

SailorOrion
 
2H4
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RE: Man Tries To Open Door On 747 @ 30,000 Ft.

Sat Dec 18, 2004 8:26 am



Considering there are several tons of pressure on a single door, it is pretty likely that a human is not able to open such a door in-flight.


I believe on the 777, there are pins that lock the doors into place when airborne, anyway. I would assume there is a similar safeguard on the 74.


2H4



Intentionally Left Blank
 
jfkaua
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RE: Man Tries To Open Door On 747 @ 30,000 Ft.

Sat Dec 18, 2004 8:33 am

yea i believe that this isn't really humanly possible because the doors open inward correct?
 
Type-Rated
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RE: Man Tries To Open Door On 747 @ 30,000 Ft.

Sat Dec 18, 2004 8:57 am

The doors and emergency exits on most pressurized aircraft are really plugs. They are larger than the opening of the window/door and the internal pressure keeps them sealed nice and tight against the aircraft frame. I think the thought is that if a person is trying to open the door or window, what will they do for an encore!
Fly North Central Airlines..The route of the Northliners!
 
cyrillim
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RE: Man Tries To Open Door On 747 @ 30,000 Ft.

Sat Dec 18, 2004 9:02 am

Depending on the location of the door, the most the man could do is to crack the door open (with a lot of force) and depressurize the cabin. The door would not actually open all the way.

Certain exit doors on the 747 are designed for them to be opened in mid flight to release smoke should there be a fire in the cabin. This is only done at a lower altitude so I would imagine at 9000m the guy would have a pretty hard time trying to crack the door open. Kudos to the crew and passengers who managed to restrain this man.
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dl757md
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RE: Man Tries To Open Door On 747 @ 30,000 Ft.

Sat Dec 18, 2004 9:06 am

I'm not sure if the 747 doors are equipped with flight locks like the 777 which lock the latches at airspeed above 80 knots. The 767 doors have no flight locks but the signal to unlock the door goes through the PSEU-Proximity Sensor Electronics Unit- which checks to see that door is actually closed before unlocking it. The PSEU may also look at the air/ground relay and determine not to unlock the door if the plane is in the air but I couldn't find anything about this.

Even if there is no flight locking procedure on the door at 30000 feet with a cabin altitude of 8000 feet(highest allowed) the pressure differential is about 6.5psid. The door is about 78 inches by 36 inches which is 2808 square inches. So the force pushing out on the door is over 9 tons! Remember the door opens inward off of the door stops before it goes up or out. Even the door emergency assist system wouldn't be able to overcome this amount of force.

The door won't open.

Dl757Md
757 Most beautiful airliner in the sky!
 
katanapilot
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RE: Man Tries To Open Door On 747 @ 30,000 Ft.

Sat Dec 18, 2004 11:44 am

so if you want to be really really literal, this man did nothing to endanger himself or others. he might get a life sentence for intent alone. ha ha

sucker
 
Newark777
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RE: Man Tries To Open Door On 747 @ 30,000 Ft.

Sat Dec 18, 2004 12:16 pm

Forgot about the whole "plug" issue with doors. Good to know some crazy passenger can't just get up and open the door mid-flight.  Big thumbs up
Why grab a Heine when you can grab a Busch?
 
ChiGB1973
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RE: Man Tries To Open Door On 747 @ 30,000 Ft.

Sat Dec 18, 2004 12:57 pm

Hmm, I wanna hear more about being able to open a door on a 747 to let smoke out of the cabin?

Should this be a whole new topic?

M
 
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CCA
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RE: Man Tries To Open Door On 747 @ 30,000 Ft.

Sat Dec 18, 2004 1:34 pm

The 747 has to be depressurised before opening the door for smoke evacuation that's why the A/C is flown to 10,000' or below so the pax can breath and the masks don't all drop.

There is no way for a human to open the door while the A/C is pressurised the handle may move but it's the linkages that are failing not the door.

Think about it, a door is (for arguments sake) 6' X 3' or 72"X36" which is 2592 square inches @ say 7psi = 18,144 pounds which is around 8 tons.


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Now lets talk about the "upper and lower gate"(747) say 4"X36"=144 square inches which @ 7psi is 1008 pounds so the linkage will have to be able to withstand 1000 pounds just to "crack" the upper and lower gates and that's 1000 pounds for each gate. Now if the mechanical advantage is there to open the gates this will not depressurise the A/C as the outflow valves can accommodate a leak of this size as each is around 288 square inches, even so if the leak was anymore the A/C would only slowly depressurise and the crew can take action and be below 14,000' in a few minutes.

CCA

[Edited 2004-12-18 05:39:48]
P1 in A330, A340, A346, B742, B744, B748.
 
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HAWK21M
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RE: Man Tries To Open Door On 747 @ 30,000 Ft.

Sat Dec 18, 2004 2:04 pm

What would have happened if he had successfully opened the door
At that Altitude,it would be Humanely Impossible,considering the Cabin Differntial pressure acting against the door.
regds
MEL
I may not win often, but I damn well never lose!!! ;)
 
traveler
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RE: Man Tries To Open Door On 747 @ 30,000 Ft.

Sat Dec 18, 2004 2:14 pm

Try to open the door of you car when you are driving over 100 miles per hour. Good luck !

That should answer the question about an airliner's door !

Traveler
 
travelplus
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RE: Man Tries To Open Door On 747 @ 30,000 Ft.

Sat Dec 18, 2004 3:38 pm

Why would someone even think to open such a door? I mean come on did this guy drink too much Hooch Vodka that would cause him to try to do such an act? I mean even a 5 year old knowes not to open such a door? Is this guy Autistic with a comorbidity of Mental Retardation? I'm glad the flight attendants tried to stop him. This guy deserves a long prison sentence unless he's Bipolar. Come one why would you board the plane if your so insane?
 
AAplatnumflier
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RE: Man Tries To Open Door On 747 @ 30,000 Ft.

Sat Dec 18, 2004 3:42 pm

Isn't it impossible to open it? Also as Traveler said at speeds of 100 it is hard, but 500 and with locks I would bet it would be close to impossible to do.
 
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CCA
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RE: Man Tries To Open Door On 747 @ 30,000 Ft.

Sat Dec 18, 2004 5:44 pm

If smoke/fumes severe and smoke source determined to be in the cabin:

LANDING ALTITUDE SWITCH................. MAN
LANDING ALTITUDE CONTROL..................... SET 8000-8500 FEET
Set landing altitude between 8000 and 8500 to command cabin altitude to 8,000 feet.
EQUIPMENT COOLING SELECTOR.... NORM
DESCENT.................................. ACCOMPLISH
Level off at the lowest safe altitude or 8,500 feet, whichever is higher.
OUTFLOW VALVE MANUAL SWITCHES..................................................ON
OUTFLOW VALVES MANUAL CONTROL.............................................. OPEN
AIRSPEED........................ 200 KIAS OR LESS
DOORS TO BE OPENED............ DETERMINE
If smoke/fumes concentration determined to be in the forward section of the cabin, a Door 1 or 2 and a Door 4 or 5 must be opened.
If smoke/fumes concentration determined to be in the aft section of the cabin, open a door 2 only.
Direct personnel to open door(s). Position mode selector handle to MANUAL and rotate and secure handle in the 12 o’clock position.
When smoke/fumes evacuated: Direct personnel to close door(s).
Position mode selector handle to AUTO. The forward door must be closed before closing the aft door.

CCA
P1 in A330, A340, A346, B742, B744, B748.
 
Gary2880
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RE: Man Tries To Open Door On 747 @ 30,000 Ft.

Sat Dec 18, 2004 7:11 pm

this is one of the main reasons why i hate flying, i like to sit as far from the emergancey exits as possible, when i do have to fly i keep my eye on the person at the exit door just incase they try anything funny or are mentally loopy, the 1 thing that really scared me about flying is if someone trys to open the door *shudder*
Patriotism is the last refuge of the scoundrel :- Samuel Johnson
 
speedbudgie
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RE: Man Tries To Open Door On 747 @ 30,000 Ft.

Sat Dec 18, 2004 9:44 pm

"Is this guy Autistic with a comorbidity of Mental Retardation? I'm glad the flight attendants tried to stop him. This guy deserves a long prison sentence unless he's Bipolar."

You honestly couldn't come up with a better way to get your point across?
 
PilotGirl
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RE: Man Tries To Open Door On 747 @ 30,000 Ft.

Sat Dec 18, 2004 10:58 pm

There was an incident, perhaps 5-10 years ago, of a BA 747 climbing out of Heathrow or Gatwick. One of the main passenger door handles started moving by itself - as if to open the door. Presumable some odd reaction with the settling air pressure. The flight crew called the BA engineers, who explained it was impossible for the door to open.

The FAs were so freaked out about it that, despite the reassurances of the engineers, that the 747 ended up dumping its entire fuel load and returning to the airport.

I never saw anything further about the reason for the door handle moving. As far as it seemed at the time they confirmed no fault on the door.
 
Lrockeagle
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RE: Man Tries To Open Door On 747 @ 30,000 Ft.

Sun Dec 19, 2004 1:40 am

The guy said he heard voices in his head? I get those too, but I learned to ignore them. Sometimes they're so funny.  Smile Geez I crack myself up.
 
raivavae
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RE: Man Tries To Open Door On 747 @ 30,000 Ft.

Sun Dec 19, 2004 2:11 am

it is absolutely impossible to open a door(passenger) in flight.
If yes this would have been done already before!
 
vigilante3
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RE: Man Tries To Open Door On 747 @ 30,000 Ft.

Sun Dec 19, 2004 2:13 am

Impossible to open plug type doors soon after takeoff..however...cargo doors for 747s and others are non plug type and can blow/rupture open in flight leading to inflight disintegration.

All doors should be plug type.

United Airlines Flight 811 and corazon.com give details.
 
gearup
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RE: Man Tries To Open Door On 747 @ 30,000 Ft.

Sun Dec 19, 2004 3:53 am

There was an incident involving A Saudi L1011 a number of years ago. There was an in-flight fire somewhere in the cabin and the aircraft made a successful emergency landing. As I understand it, the fire destroyed some wiring and the cabin air dump valves remained closed. Because of the residual air pressure in side the cabin holding the plug doors closed, nobody on board was able to open any of the doors and all on board perished on the fire which eventually destroyed the aircraft. It is a very sad example of how even a very small pressure differential can make a door like this impossible to open.

GU
I have no memory of this place.
 
DC10Heavy
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RE: Man Tries To Open Door On 747 @ 30,000 Ft.

Sun Dec 19, 2004 4:35 am

My question to the crew and pax that restrained him is, did you beat him like a rug ? If so, what can I get you at the Bar when we deplane this Heavy!


Matthew
KSYR
NWA DC10 LAX to HNL the only way to go!
 
ChiGB1973
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RE: Man Tries To Open Door On 747 @ 30,000 Ft.

Sun Dec 19, 2004 5:45 am

Touche'

I found it extremely hard to believe about evacuating smoke through a door on a 747 in-flight, so I know someone at United who confirmed that they are trained to open 4L if necessary.

I am truly amazed. Wonder why we could not do that on a 737, through an overwing window exit, though I know they do have flight locks when the gear leaves the ground, guess there is no override. Maybe the 757 with over wing window exits, though they too have the flight locks. Same situation. I don't think the doors would be opened just because of the way we open them.

Thanks for the info. That is very interesting!

M
 
raivavae
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RE: Man Tries To Open Door On 747 @ 30,000 Ft.

Sun Dec 19, 2004 10:29 pm

you must make the difference between "opening" a door in flight and "unlocking" a door to perform smoke evacuation. There is a "big" difference in between.
No passenger door of any passenger aircraft can be opened in flight for "physical " reasons,but all doors of all aircraft can be unlocked, for smoke evacuation( fire MUST be under control before performing this procedure, if not this will increase the fire).

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