AirWales
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AA - Food Again On Domestic Flights (over 3 Hrs)

Sat Dec 18, 2004 8:19 am

American Airlines says it will begin selling $3 snack boxes in the main cabins of long U.S. flights beginning Feb. 1 2005. They stopped selling them after the drop in revenue as a result of 9/11. These food boxes will be sold on domestic flights of over 3 hours duration.

http://www.chron.com/cs/CDA/ssistory.mpl/business/2952504
 
moman
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RE: AA - Food Again On Domestic Flights (over 3 Hrs)

Sat Dec 18, 2004 8:22 am

Saw that, I liked their Bistro service. Looks like they are charging for something that used to be free.

Moman
AA Platinum Member - American Airlines Forever
 
aa777flyer
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RE: AA - Food Again On Domestic Flights (over 3 Hrs)

Sat Dec 18, 2004 8:24 am

Yes, this does also include Hawaii flights as well. So no more hot meals going to Hawaii. For now Transcons will retain hot meals in Y, but I guess that will eventually go as well.
The TSA was created to make the post office look efficient!
 
jcs17
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RE: AA - Food Again On Domestic Flights (over 3 Hrs)

Sat Dec 18, 2004 9:19 am

Ridiculous. I don't care what anyone says about BoB programs, all they do is dilute the major airline product (as does offering 'no meal' on a three hour plus flight).
America's chickens are coming home to rooooost!
 
ANCFlyer
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RE: AA - Food Again On Domestic Flights (over 3 Hrs)

Sat Dec 18, 2004 9:48 am

Concur with Jcs17. Don't so much mind a B-O-B program on something 2-3 hours intracontinental, but for something like Hawaii flights, etc, and transcons, the airline simply needs to feed people, and it needs to be part of the ticket price.

I'll agree the B-O-B meals are often better than the fodder previously served (at least in Y). Having said that, why not simply serve the B-O-B meals anyway. Seems like a no-brainer to me.

Legacy Air Carriers (actually all carriers) are feeling the crunch financially. But when they go low-rent, then what incentive is there for the flying public to continue to fly with them?

There is another thread out there somewhere about AS test marketing B-O-B to Mexico. Just the beginning of the end, IMHO, of another very awesome airline going low-rent.



FOR THOSE THAT FOUGHT FOR IT, FREEDOM HAS A FLAVOR THE PROTECTED WILL NEVER KNOW OR UNDERSTAND
 
UA744KSFO
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RE: AA - Food Again On Domestic Flights (over 3 Hrs)

Sat Dec 18, 2004 9:52 am

And who are the LCC's and who are the real "full service carriers"?
 
ANCFlyer
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RE: AA - Food Again On Domestic Flights (over 3 Hrs)

Sat Dec 18, 2004 10:06 am

UA744KSFO: ""And who are the LCC's and who are the real "full service carriers"?""

I'm guessing this is a rhetorical question, but just in case . . . LCCs including AirTran, Frontier, JetBlue etc. Legacies including UA, US, AA, AS, NW, etc.

Hard to tell anymore in some cases. The "Full Service Carriers" keep cutting and cutting and cutting service. In some cases, other than the livery, can't tell the difference. Case in point: Styrofoam and Plastic Glasses in US F class.
FOR THOSE THAT FOUGHT FOR IT, FREEDOM HAS A FLAVOR THE PROTECTED WILL NEVER KNOW OR UNDERSTAND
 
jpetekyxmd80
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RE: AA - Food Again On Domestic Flights (over 3 Hrs)

Sat Dec 18, 2004 10:21 am

UA744KSFO-

You read my mind, I was thinking the same thing. Seems to me that it is a penny-wise and dollar foolish measure. They still will not be able to consistently match LCC's and now may often be beaten by amenities as well- in Y of course.
The Best Care in the Air, 1984-2009
 
N1120A
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RE: AA - Food Again On Domestic Flights (over 3 Hrs)

Sat Dec 18, 2004 10:30 am

Funny thing is, these snack boxes sound a lot like the ones WN gives away for free on flights over 3 hours
Mangeons les French fries, mais surtout pratiquons avec fierte le French kiss
 
jpetekyxmd80
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RE: AA - Food Again On Domestic Flights (over 3 Hrs)

Sat Dec 18, 2004 10:39 am

Good point, n1120a. This is NOT the way for American to recover!
The Best Care in the Air, 1984-2009
 
ckfred
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RE: AA - Food Again On Domestic Flights (over 3 Hrs)

Sat Dec 18, 2004 11:44 am

My question is why AA isn't selling on flights under 3 hours. If you ever fly out of Canadian airports, there is often little food for sale after U.S. Customs, other than Tim Horton doughnuts. I can also name a few U.S. airports where there is very little to eat beyond security.

In the U.S., the choice is usually fast food. Don't get me wrong, I like fast food, but not every time I get on an airplane. And if I'm flying alone, I don't like schlepping first to a food stand, then carrying the food, my coat, and my carry-on to the gate. Then, I have to balance my burger and fries on my lap.

I remember reading about 10 years ago a column by William F. Buckley, Jr. He suggested, after finding some meal sack inedible (don't know if it was an AA Bistro Bag or the Delta Deli), that airlines should find good a good deli, such as the Carnegie Deli, to put a choice of pastrami, corned beef, and ham sandwiches on board, along with large snack bags of Cape Cod chips, and cups of TCBY yogurt.

Not only would passengers not gripe, but they would probably pay a premium over the no-frill carriers to get a good meal for a change.

I know I would switch my business to UA or DL if they offered sandwiches from Carnegie Deli or Junior's.

 
ANCFlyer
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RE: AA - Food Again On Domestic Flights (over 3 Hrs)

Sat Dec 18, 2004 11:51 am

Ckfred: ""Not only would passengers not gripe, but they would probably pay a premium over the no-frill carriers to get a good meal for a change.

I know I would switch my business to UA or DL if they offered sandwiches from Carnegie Deli or Junior's""

Exactly what I was saying in Post #4. Want me to fly on your "full service, legacy airline", then you better treat me like I'm on a full service airline!

If I get B-O-B and styrofoam in F then I might as well go to an LCC, fly Y (or US  Sad).



FOR THOSE THAT FOUGHT FOR IT, FREEDOM HAS A FLAVOR THE PROTECTED WILL NEVER KNOW OR UNDERSTAND
 
qqflyboy
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RE: AA - Food Again On Domestic Flights (over 3 Hrs)

Sat Dec 18, 2004 12:38 pm

I know this has been beaten to death, but if you want to fly a "full service" airline, then you have to pay full service prices. Yes the legacies can still be expensive, but in many cases they are cheaper. Example: I recently bought a ticket to SEA from LAS on AS. The AS ticket was a full $100 less than WN and $35 less then HP. It all depends on when you book. My parents saved $400 booking a ticket on AA from RNO to IND over WN. When my mom told me, I didn't believe her so I priced out the itineraries myself. I was floored!

Anyway, although it wasn't real clear in the press release, transcon meals are being eliminated as well. It was better explained in the flight attendant special briefing. The meals on transcons and Hawaii flights will be the same and priced at $5. It sucks to have to pay for it, but the turkey wrap that will be offered is currently on our light lunch menu for first class. It is one of the BEST things we've ever served. I like it so much I make them myself at home. At least you'll know that you're getting something edible.

As for penny-wise, dollar foolish -- I don't think so. Look, AA removed pillows from the S80 recently, much to the uproar of myself and other a.netters, but they claim it will save them $300,000 a year. Despite the protests here, I have had very few complaints on board the plane, especially when we have blankets that can function, in most cases, better then the pillows, and ther're softer. Not only will this new BOB program save AA $30 million a year, it also opens a whole new revenue stream not previously available. The program will be implemented by Sky Chefs, and they alone will bare the cost of the program. However, AA will receive a portion of the profits, making this a risk free revenue stream for them.

The company has been responsive to flight attendant and customer feedback from the test performed in September, and they and Sky Chefs seem to be commited to making the program work. I wasn't so sure about the program to begin with, and know there are still wrinkles to work out, but I am encouraged by the cooperation being put forth in this effort.

We all acknowledge things must change in the industry, but when they do, we criticize the airline for it. The fact is, ticket prices at AA are much cheaper now then they were a few years ago. The company is doing their best to match the costs to what the customer is willing to pay, all the while offering what the customer still values. I give AA credit for taking their time, well researching their various initiatives and executing them when appropriate.

Also not mentioned in the press release is AA will eliminate special meals in first class on domestic flights. Finally! I always wondered why we catered so specifically to the special dietary needs of individuals.

All these changes take effect February 1.
The views expressed are mine alone and do not necessarily reflect my employer’s views.
 
Xkorpyoh
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RE: AA - Food Again On Domestic Flights (over 3 Hrs)

Sat Dec 18, 2004 3:15 pm

"Also not mentioned in the press release is AA will eliminate special meals in first class on domestic flights. Finally! I always wondered why we catered so specifically to the special dietary needs of individuals"

...because we vegetarians are also humans and need to eat like everybody else on the plane that paid for a ticket. The BoB options hardly ever have vegetarian options. So in my opinion it is just as bad as not getting any food.
In many foreign carriers you can get a meal (and special meals) on flights of any lenght. I was suprised to get full meals on a 1 hour flights in airlines like British Airways, Bankgok Airways, Jet Airways, TAM, just to name a few.
 
AAplatnumflier
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RE: AA - Food Again On Domestic Flights (over 3 Hrs)

Sat Dec 18, 2004 3:34 pm

Yes but this also explains why AA is the number one carrier in moneymaking and in passengers in America. They must be doing something right.
 
N1120A
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RE: AA - Food Again On Domestic Flights (over 3 Hrs)

Sat Dec 18, 2004 3:43 pm

>Yes but this also explains why AA is the number one carrier in moneymaking and in passengers in America.<

Passengers: If you cover total passengers, they haul more than any other airline in the world. If you look at domestic only, WN carries the most of any US carrier

Profits: No, nada, nein, nonka (love that commercial). WN makes the most and NW and CO are currently doing better as legacies go
Mangeons les French fries, mais surtout pratiquons avec fierte le French kiss
 
travelplus
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RE: AA - Food Again On Domestic Flights (over 3 Hr

Sat Dec 18, 2004 3:44 pm

Wait one second a 5 hour flight to Hawaii in AA Y with BOB meals when the same flight flown by HA,UA,ATA and even Suntrips offer a hot meal included in the ticket. AA is making the wrong decsision to take away hot meals. I remember having a good cheese Pizza in Y and a chicken dish with rice on my Hawaii flights. I mean on a short flight from SJC-DEN this would be no problem but on a 5 hour flight why should I bring extra $$$ for headsets and meals? At least they should accept credit cards as a form of payment as not lot of people bring cash onboard. Please do anything in your power to fix this flaw.

Hawaiian and Alhoa serve great hot meals. Hey I remember having Passion Chicken on a flight from Honolulu to San Francisco back in 1995. Come on even if it means adding $3 to the ticket price no one will notice the small difference in price. Why not take away BOB meals and include it in the ticket price with headsets anyways people will end up paying the money for food. Most people don't mind if the food is good.
 
ANCFlyer
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RE: AA - Food Again On Domestic Flights (over 3 Hrs)

Sat Dec 18, 2004 3:54 pm

AAplatnumflier: " Yes but this also explains why AA is the number one carrier in moneymaking and in passengers in America. They must be doing something right"

Only a temporary situation if they don't watch themselves. . . . if they don't stop the reductions in all the services . . . e.g. Pillows on the S80s (yes, yes, yes, I read the thread, the nasty frickin drooled on, hair covered pillows); B-O-B bullsh!t, etc.

What will be next? Styro and plastic in F/J like US? I mean, what the hell do I care really, I don't fly AA except once a year, maybe, on the off chance CO cancels or something.

But the bottom line here is that AA is the airline that in the last couple weeks attempted two fare increases . . . right? Or did I read that all wrong? Pulled the pillows out of their MD80s - something about not needing them on short flight (I've been on an MD-80 from ABQ-DFW-DCA that departed ABQ mid-afternoon and arrived DCA at 2330 - nothing at all short about that); now we're going to B-O-B for 3 hours or more!? What happens under three hours? Fend for yourself, not BUY-on-board but must be BRING-on-board.

This isn't like "taking one salad olive off the F meals" like they did how ever long ago . . . this is a different animal altogether.

As I keep saying, not a big difference between LCCs and some legacy carriers these days.

I'm not impressed.

Travelplus: Why not take away BOB meals and include it in the ticket price with headsets anyways people will end up paying the money for food

Now, THAT'S the way to fill aircraft . . . . pass THIS on to your Suits in the exalted high offices!

Even further, if the B-O-B meals are so blasted good, and I understand they are much better than standard airline fare, why not serve them instead!?!? If they can be sold for $5, they can probably be made for $2 . . . so, want to increase your revenue, add $5 to your ticket price, serve the B-O-B meals free, and you're up $3 a head!?





[Edited 2004-12-18 07:56:45]

[Edited 2004-12-18 07:59:42]

[Edited 2004-12-18 08:05:52]
FOR THOSE THAT FOUGHT FOR IT, FREEDOM HAS A FLAVOR THE PROTECTED WILL NEVER KNOW OR UNDERSTAND
 
aussie747
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RE: AA - Food Again On Domestic Flights (over 3 Hrs)

Sat Dec 18, 2004 4:20 pm

So what do AA provide on their flights now (besides the lift to get there).

From what I can observe from above AA is a low cost carrier.

I suppose they still serve you a lousy drink and small packet of pretzels on flights not covered under the below meal categories on all flights.

Or is the below from the website still what is offered

"Coach Class Complimentary Food Service
The following American Airlines cities and other selected flights offer complimentary food service in the Main Cabin within traditional breakfast, lunch and dinner meal windows.
All markets systemwide that have flying times four hours and greater
Flights between Dallas/Fort Worth and Portland, Seattle, Vancouver, Montreal, Boston as well as the New York City area
On flights where only beverages are served, we invite customers to visit any of the airport concessions and feel free to bring food purchases on board. "

 
AAplatnumflier
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RE: AA - Food Again On Domestic Flights (over 3 Hrs)

Sat Dec 18, 2004 4:22 pm

Actaully it states that AA is #1 in the world with American Based International Carriers. Whatever you say... AA is doing the best out of the non-LCC's
 
ANCFlyer
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RE: AA - Food Again On Domestic Flights (over 3 Hrs)

Sat Dec 18, 2004 4:23 pm

Or is the below from the website still what is offered

See one of the posts above . . . . apparently the B-O-B with AA starts 1 Feb 05.

FOR THOSE THAT FOUGHT FOR IT, FREEDOM HAS A FLAVOR THE PROTECTED WILL NEVER KNOW OR UNDERSTAND
 
qqflyboy
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RE: AA - Food Again On Domestic Flights (over 3 Hrs)

Sat Dec 18, 2004 4:26 pm

If you only understood what adding $5 to the ticket price would do. As you mention, AA has attempted two fare increases recently and they weren't successful. Why? The other airlines didn't follow suit, and we're talking $10 one way increases! If the consumer won't support a $10 increase, they are highly unlikely to support even a $5 increase.

You can always bring your own headset for FREE and get BETTER sound quality. Come on, we're talking five bucks here!

Airlines are in the business of transportation, not feeding people. That is a relic of days gone by, long, long ago. How we ever got hung up on special meals, I'll never know. We used to have over TEN: Low-fat, low-sodium, vegetarian, lacto-ovo vegetarian, Hindu, Muslim, Kosher, Diabetic, child meals and seafood to name a few. I understand people have specific dietary needs based on health, religion and preference. However, I don't believe it's the airline's responsibility to accomodate all those needs.
The views expressed are mine alone and do not necessarily reflect my employer’s views.
 
Qantasclub
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RE: AA - Food Again On Domestic Flights (over 3 Hrs)

Sat Dec 18, 2004 4:39 pm


This is just disgraceful. I am sick and tired of hearing excuses for AA's further 'non-service' and this is simply yet another step towards it's evolution into a full priced/low cost carrier. Let's be honest, guys, AA simply gets you there in a plane. Nothing more and nothing less. They are NOT a legitimate full (or ANY) service airline and I would be embarrased to work for them.

Long Haul is the only way to go
 
qqflyboy
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RE: AA - Food Again On Domestic Flights (over 3 Hrs)

Sat Dec 18, 2004 4:50 pm

Then I guess it's a good thing you don't work here.  Smile

We've all been embarassed with AA's evolution, however, we have proven one thing: we're willing to make change, albeit controversial at first, to ensure the long term viability of the company. I know AA is still is financial straights, however, they have made strides in better positioning themselves for the future: competing with LCCs. Americans want LCC prices, they've proven that with their wallets. Now, the legacies are having to meet the LCC fares, and therefore are going to have to offer LCC service.

Other airlines that seemed to be healthier then AA are starting to show signs of wear, ie, CO and NW. We can be pretty sure that UA, US and DL will make similar moves and CO and NW will have to follow. The airlines offer what their customers are willing to pay for and nothing more.
The views expressed are mine alone and do not necessarily reflect my employer’s views.
 
ANCFlyer
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RE: AA - Food Again On Domestic Flights (over 3 Hrs)

Sat Dec 18, 2004 4:54 pm

Qqflyboy At the risk of starting a real flaming thread, I hazard to ask . . .

Is it simply that the newer F/As in this industry have just gotten so used to pass a round of sodas and peanuts and go sit on our arses and bitch abaout management that they simply don't feel like serving the pax?

Reading a lot of these threads, that's what I feel. Do I believe it. . . no. I have said in many, many of my threads, I don't envy the F/As job. I want to make sure you understand that.

But I want you to take a look at your international competition - I don't mean flights going over the ponds - I mean European carriers and Asian carriers. Look here, Pal, they serve meals on RJs in Europe, on flights about an hour long. And I'm not talking about some crappy rolled up tortilla with some third rate, unidentified content . . . I'm talking meals.

Have a gander at AirlineMeals.net . . . you'll see the reason why folks like me will, in ALL cases, pick a foreign flagged carrier for international travel and travel while overseas.

If you're holding me captive in an aircraft for 4-5-6-7 hours, you damn well are providing more than transportation . . .
FOR THOSE THAT FOUGHT FOR IT, FREEDOM HAS A FLAVOR THE PROTECTED WILL NEVER KNOW OR UNDERSTAND
 
acvitale
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RE: AA - Food Again On Domestic Flights (over 3 Hrs)

Sat Dec 18, 2004 5:19 pm

I love it when the Spin doctors go to work.....

PR is another way to say blatent lies.

CO is a legacy carrier as is NW

AA is hardly making more money then CO or NW.

According to the SEC filings AA lost their A*S on the last quarter and year in comparison.

CO offers hot meals and free IFE. AA offers excuses

I am sorry but the jaded AA hypocrisy should stop

Ask yourself why CO is making money.

Because people like me are willing to pay more for ammenities. And post 9-11 when all the legacy carriers cut, cut, cut them CO said Nope (with the exception of booze on trans oceanics)

And now CO has earned nearly 65K worth of my 100K travel budget. (KL, VS, BA also get sizeable chunks and NW a token amount)

And for the BS that says AA is a bigger Intl carrier. Wrong again. While AA carrys the most passengers (poorly and at a loss) CO flies to more international destinations then any other carrier.

 
AASTEW
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RE: AA - Food Again On Domestic Flights (over 3 Hrs)

Sat Dec 18, 2004 9:22 pm

ACTIVALE,

Wow, CO is making money! I don't think so! If it's true why are the people on Smith St. asking for concessions.

Please, let me know of an LCC, that is serving HOT meals on a transcon or any flight. Go ask the pax at FL/WN/ATA/F9 what their getting at meal time.

If you want LCC prices you better expect LCC frills, which is offer less for less. Any LCC that is offering meals on flights have a BOB program in place.

Some passengers will have to go through this transition period just how the airline employees have. (PAX) Cheaper fare=no food less frills. (Labor) Lower pay=lower fares! Join in line with the cuts!
 
AA767400
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RE: AA - Food Again On Domestic Flights (over 3 Hrs)

Sat Dec 18, 2004 9:47 pm

People compare American carriers to foreign carriers....Why? In the U.S., we don't have the same crowd as abroad. You guys keep saying that BA, has a meal on a 45 minute RJ flight. Well guess what? We are in America, not Europe! Americans, want CHEAP FARES! QF, serves meals on short 45 minutes flight. Well guess what? We are not in freaking Australia, where you have two freaking carriers to choice from.

So let me get this straight, B6, can serve nothing, and get away with it. But god forbid AA do the same thing, when both have the same dam fare cross country.

Times have changed man. Stop trying to bring back the 60s. Airlines are in bad shape, and the last thing they need is full service, at a low price. Yes, CO, can do it. But for how long?
"The low fares airline."
 
AA767400
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RE: AA - Food Again On Domestic Flights (over 3 Hrs)

Sat Dec 18, 2004 9:59 pm

ANCflyer, Why does it have to go back to the Flight Attendant? The topic has nothing to do with Flight Attendants. You say that you don't admire the job? Great, but what does have to do with the topic?

Can people just let people be? People choose their jobs, because the choose where they want to be in life. Some people want to work in the medical field, others want to work as a lawyer. Others choose sales. And yes, others choose being a Flight Attendant. So what is SO wrong with that? There is no other freaking job on this website, that does not get such negative,abusive, and downright nasty comments from people. Why? Why SO much negativity?

Yes, The work group can complain about things, but doesn't every job have complaints? No job is perfect, and you will get complainers in all walks of life.
"The low fares airline."
 
RMenon
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RE: AA - Food Again On Domestic Flights (over 3 Hr

Sat Dec 18, 2004 10:05 pm

AAStew,

AA will fulfil its own prophecy - and become an LCC - and an uncompetitive one at that.

I frequently pay AA around $2,000 for an LGA-DFW, or $1800 for JFK-SFO for last minute business trips. Let's see - if I fly Jetblue, I'll get more legroom, better IFE and free snacks for half the fare vs AA. Next year, UA's p.s service will be a compelling option for me (at least for transcons)

The choice is clear - my high-yield business travel will go to the airlines that offer me a good network AND good service (UA, NW, CO, DL etc). My low-yield vacation travel will go to the Jetblue's of the world who offer better value for money compared to AA.

I guess in AA's world (and it seems, most of their employees minds) there is no place for a Nordstrom or BMW in the airline business, only Walmarts and Hyundais...
 
ANCFlyer
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RE: AA - Food Again On Domestic Flights (over 3 Hrs)

Sat Dec 18, 2004 10:25 pm

Aa767400, I do admire the job (F/A), I do admire the people that work that job. It isn't easy dealing with hundred of different people each day. I hope I made that clear. I'll be the first to tell you, F/As get my respect most of the time - just for the job. I'm NOT one of these idiots that thinks all they are is glorified wait staff.

As far a Qqflyboy is concerned I'm wondering if all that sniveling about having 10 special meals etc is because some of his generation if F/A is basically becoming lazy. "One round of pretzels and a can of soda and let be off to galley to bitch about something". Is this another reason for cancelling food service? F/As with this attitude simply don't want to do it anymore? Or is the only reason AAs bottom $$$?




[Edited 2004-12-18 14:26:52]

[Edited 2004-12-18 14:28:44]
FOR THOSE THAT FOUGHT FOR IT, FREEDOM HAS A FLAVOR THE PROTECTED WILL NEVER KNOW OR UNDERSTAND
 
qqflyboy
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RE: AA - Food Again On Domestic Flights (over 3 Hrs)

Sat Dec 18, 2004 10:29 pm

Ok, no flaming allowed. However, I tried to craft my post above carefully as to avoid the "lazy, put out, newbie flight attendants" comments which are simply tired and worn out. If you read my first sentence, I commented on how we, flight attendants at AA, have been embarrassed by some of the changes that have been made these past few years. The problem is, the changes are having a positive effect. AA is scoring higher in Survey America in customer service, more specifically in on-board service, then we have in a long time.

The changes are that, changes. They take time for all of us to get used to. What I find interesting is this: If the legacies are getting so bad, who do you fly? Consumers have proven they no longer want the amenities associated with paying 25% more for a ticket then you would pay for a ticket on an LCC. Legacies have dropped their ticket prices to compete with the LCCs and are starting to match their service respectively. That's the way it works. You can't expect to pay the same price as the LCCs and get the service from days gone by at the legacies. So Southwest offers pillows. Do you know those pillows are half as thick as the one's AA has, and their blankets are half as thick as well? An AA blanket is far more comfortable then a WN pillow. I had to throw that one in there since I figured it would be brought up.

WN still doesn't have IFE, yet AA offers IFE on all aircraft except the MD-80 and that's changing. Meals, well at least you can get them on AA. WN and B6 only offer small snack boxes on their transcons whereas this new BOB program will give you a full meal for a nominal price. Sounds convenient to me. And don't think offering BOB to 140 passengers is any easier than serving them meals the "old-fashioned" way.

I never said CO wasn't making money, I hinted that they're hurting. They must be when Gordon starts talk about concessions having to be made in order for CO to stay in the black. Perhaps CO is going to continue to offer what it's passengers aren't willing to pay for at the expense of the employees? Who knows, but it has been reported many times CO is not unscathed. We all know AA would be making very decent profits if it weren't for fuel prices being so high. I know, I know, other carriers are still making profits with high fuel prices, but they're all being affected. AA is simply meeting the market expectations when it comes to offering what customers are willing to pay for.

We all, as consumers, can only blame ourselves for the "deterioration" of the legacies in the past few years. We simply aren't willing to pay them premium fares anymore, and surely, we shouldn't expect premium service. Fortunately, most have figured that out, as evidenced by Survey America scores.

As far as meals go on foreign carriers' short flights? Well, there are different expectations in Europe, and along with it, different and higher price points to meet those expectations. But then again, maybe they don't have different expectations. That would explain the explosive growth and success of airlines like Ryan Air, easyjet and virginexpress. I was shocked when I flew BMI from LHR to DUB and was fed a cold, although full, lunch. Completely unnecessary. It's an hour, for crying-out-loud.

Acvitale, ask yourself why CO is asking its employees for concessions? While I am not ridiculing CO for doing so, it clearly tells you they are not unscathed and are needing to make changes so they stay in the black. But asking your employees to pay for amenities customers aren't paying for isn't always a good idea either. You can't pay for a piece of chocolate and expect the whole box. It's fortunate for the industry you are willing to pay premium fares. There just simply aren't enough of you out there anymore to justify those additional costs. The great news is, for you, is you can upgrade with all those miles and still get the extra service you've come to enjoy. And chances are, those premium fares you are paying are probably less then the ones you were paying two years ago. But that's just a guess.

And, just for the record, I am well aware NW and CO are posting profits and AA isn't. I'm assuming you were responding to someone else's reply.

I'm curious... what does jaded hypocrisy mean? I'd like further clarification as to why AA is jaded and where they are hypocritical. And for your clarification, although AA lost money last quarter, it was but a drop in the bucket of quarter's past, clearly showing AA is on the right track. Did you forget they posted a profit the quarter before? I wouldn't call that losing, "their A*S."

One more thing, AA offers FREE IFE, too. Just because we sell headsets doesn't mean you can't use your own. A board member would call that smart, a consumer would call that convenient.

Wait, wait, just one more thing. I've been flying for eight years and flew international as a purser. I am hardly new and certainly know what it's like to work my butt off serving caviar and lobster to first class. And that's just two of the six courses.
The views expressed are mine alone and do not necessarily reflect my employer’s views.
 
ANCFlyer
Posts: 21391
Joined: Mon Nov 15, 2004 3:51 pm

RE: AA - Food Again On Domestic Flights (over 3 Hrs)

Sat Dec 18, 2004 10:36 pm

AA is scoring higher in Survey America in customer service, more specifically in on-board service, then we have in a long time: Not for long.

Consumers have proven they no longer want the amenities associated with paying 25% more for a ticket then you would pay for a ticket on an LCC: Not all of us. . . I assure you. I'd gladly pay another 25% if it was worth it, it simply is not looking that way any longer.

The great news is, for you, is you can upgrade with all those miles and still get the extra service you've come to enjoy: Not necessarily true - perhaps still on AA, but not elsewhere. Example: Styro and Plastic cups/glasses in F on US. Plastic utensils abound in F on a lot of carriers.

this new BOB program will give you a full meal for a nominal price.: how full a meal can it be in a box and for $5?

We all know AA would be making very decent profits if it weren't for fuel prices being so high.: I think we can agree, everyone would be happier and more profitable with lower fuel prices.

Wait, wait, just one more thing. I've been flying for eight years and flew international as a purser. I am hardly new and certainly know what it's like to work my butt off serving caviar and lobster to first class. And that's just two of the six courses: Apologies if you took offense. I certainly respect the F/A tradecraft.



[Edited 2004-12-18 14:40:27]
FOR THOSE THAT FOUGHT FOR IT, FREEDOM HAS A FLAVOR THE PROTECTED WILL NEVER KNOW OR UNDERSTAND
 
mhodgson
Posts: 4673
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RE: AA - Food Again On Domestic Flights (over 3 Hr

Sat Dec 18, 2004 10:37 pm

AA76740: We are in America, not Europe! Americans, want CHEAP FARES!

We get cheap fares too in Europe. We get good value fares with BA and BMI, complete with food and drink, and can fly Ryanair or easyJet. I'd hardly call American a full service carrier when JetBlue offer more than them in terms of meals and entertainment. If a fare for AA and B6 was the same on the same route - who would you choose (ignoring any preference due to frequent flyer status or whatever)? I'd personally choose B6 - because I get more for my money
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qqflyboy
Posts: 1627
Joined: Sat Oct 25, 2003 1:47 pm

RE: AA - Food Again On Domestic Flights (over 3 Hrs)

Sat Dec 18, 2004 11:01 pm

Rmenon, wouldn't you know I just priced out a oneway ticket from LGA to DFW TODAY on AA for $348 one-way. Fares may be higher here because there are no LCCs that fly from LGA to DFW. In this case, the price reflects supply and demand. I also just priced flight 85 today from JFK to SFO and got $272 one-way. That's five dollars more then the lowest, HP, and tied with UA. DL is three times more, US twice as high. CO could do it for five dollars more IF you wanted to make a connection and NW was slightly more than double.

Or, if you'd like, B6 can get you to OAK for $20 less. But, if you fly to SFO on AA, you'll get a meal, more legroom than B6 (for now), a widebody and IFE, oh, and you'll save three bucks not going over the bridge! And if you fly regularly, which sounds like you might, you can use those miles to upgrade to business. Business? Oh, that's right, B6 doesn't have business class. To each his own, but uncompetitive? Hardly.
The views expressed are mine alone and do not necessarily reflect my employer’s views.
 
qqflyboy
Posts: 1627
Joined: Sat Oct 25, 2003 1:47 pm

RE: AA - Food Again On Domestic Flights (over 3 Hrs)

Sat Dec 18, 2004 11:16 pm

ANCflyer...

The Survery America scores have been trending up the past six months, not down. It shows that consumers are satisfied they are getting what they paid for. If conusmers weren't liking the changes, the numbers would be trending down.

It's nice to know you would pay 25% more for premium service, but as I told Activale, there simply aren't enough of you willing to do that.

How great can two crackers, cheese spread and a piece of candy be? A turkey wrap with romaine, cream cheese, corn and bellpepper sounds a lot more filling, and that doesn't include the snacks that come with it.

No, no. No offense. I just wanted to clarify for you since you brought it up, that's all.
The views expressed are mine alone and do not necessarily reflect my employer’s views.
 
ANCFlyer
Posts: 21391
Joined: Mon Nov 15, 2004 3:51 pm

RE: AA - Food Again On Domestic Flights (over 3 Hrs)

Sun Dec 19, 2004 12:41 am

Qqflyboy: The Survery America scores have been trending up the past six months, not down. It shows that consumers are satisfied they are getting what they paid for. If conusmers weren't liking the changes, the numbers would be trending down.

As I said above, the numbers may be up now - but I'm not sure they'll stay that way with the B-O-B offered by AA. When the VVFFs figure it out, they'll squawk. I'm sure of that.

I hate to see AA going this direction - AS as well. I don't fly AA but not because I don't like them, I just connect better in ANC with NW, AS and CO.
FOR THOSE THAT FOUGHT FOR IT, FREEDOM HAS A FLAVOR THE PROTECTED WILL NEVER KNOW OR UNDERSTAND
 
Pe@rson
Posts: 16083
Joined: Sat Jan 13, 2001 6:29 pm

RE: AA - Food Again On Domestic Flights (over 3 Hrs)

Sun Dec 19, 2004 12:54 am

What if you flew AA domestically and the price of refreshments was included in the ticket price but you did not want anything to eat or drink? You'd be paying for something you would not consume. Accordingly, I am all for offering a fare which does not include any extras, like refreshments or IFE, so if you don't want to use it, you don't pay for it, but if you want it, you pay for it.
"Everyone writing for the Telegraph knows that the way to grab eyeballs is with Ryanair and/or sex."
 
Xkorpyoh
Posts: 727
Joined: Fri Oct 29, 2004 12:55 am

RE: AA - Food Again On Domestic Flights (over 3 Hrs)

Sun Dec 19, 2004 1:35 am

Iberia is also doing BoB on european and north africa flights and they are supposdly making money..no?!?
 
TACAA320
Posts: 7153
Joined: Fri Aug 06, 2004 3:03 am

RE: AA - Food Again On Domestic Flights (over 3 Hrs)

Sun Dec 19, 2004 1:38 am

"ANCflyer, Why does it have to go back to the Flight Attendant? The topic has nothing to do with Flight Attendants. You say that you don't admire the job? Great, but what does have to do with the topic?

Can people just let people be? People choose their jobs, because the choose where they want to be in life. Some people want to work in the medical field, others want to work as a lawyer. Others choose sales. And yes, others choose being a Flight Attendant. So what is SO wrong with that? There is no other freaking job on this website, that does not get such negative,abusive, and downright nasty comments from people. Why? Why SO much negativity?

Yes, The work group can complain about things, but doesn't every job have complaints? No job is perfect, and you will get complainers in all walks of life."
---------------------------------------------------------------------------

I personally think that AA sucks. Compared with any LatAm, European, Asian, you name it, AA is garbage...
'Science without religion is lame, religion without science is blind'. Albert Einstein
 
AASTEW
Posts: 418
Joined: Sat Oct 06, 2001 10:47 am

RE: AA - Food Again On Domestic Flights (over 3 Hrs)

Sun Dec 19, 2004 3:10 am

AA suck's sooo much that they are not in BK. If AA was hated so much by the TRUE flying public, we wouldn't have still been here serving the public. AA has by far had the most challenges in this industry since 9/11, but guess what we're still not in BK. Something must be going right at Amon Carter.

For all you AA haters if US and UAL can last this long we'll be here for another century with our tried Silverbirds.
 
AirWales
Topic Author
Posts: 434
Joined: Sun Oct 03, 2004 10:43 pm

RE: AA - Food Again On Domestic Flights (over 3 Hrs)

Sun Dec 19, 2004 3:47 am

Will people check to see whats already been posted. I posted the same topic with an almost same title.
 
AirWales
Topic Author
Posts: 434
Joined: Sun Oct 03, 2004 10:43 pm

RE: AA - Food Again On Domestic Flights (over 3 Hrs)

Sun Dec 19, 2004 3:49 am

Please ignore my post to myself before this one. Christmas is causing me to lose the plot!!!!!!!!!!!!
 
AA767400
Posts: 1892
Joined: Tue Jan 23, 2001 2:04 am

RE: AA - Food Again On Domestic Flights (over 3 Hrs)

Sun Dec 19, 2004 4:18 am

TACA320, I was talking about Flight Attendants? And you come out with, AA is garbage? Ok, first off, let's talk about good ole TA. TA, now sells food on their flight to and from the U.S., and Central America. You always love IB, but guess what? If IB, service is superior to AA, then you are blind. If you call running into the galley after the service, and never seeing them again is service, then right on! If you want to not know what is going on with your flight for over 2 hours, then OK.

And, My statement about Flight Attendants, was towards all Flight Attendants. Not just AA.

Xkorpyoh. Last time I checked IB, was making money. Due to their highly lucrative Latin American network from Europe.

Mhodgson, Never said AA, was a "Full Service Carrier". And you say you get a meal, with value on BM, and BA. Let's how long that goes on, considering how BM's outlook did not look so bright. Same with BA, Because they too are feeling the crunch.

Plus let's talk about how pretty much crappy those "meals" are on most of the above carriers. QF, SYD-MEL, was a joke. Hard cardboard sandwich. People complain, about what meal they are getting, and they complain about not having it either. So your doomed either way. What is all the hype about anyways? Most of these flights are pretty dam short. And you guys are getting all in a bind, about a lousy hard cardboard snack.

Now, being realistic. AA's choice in Hawaii is not a good one. Considering that no airlines sells food between the mainland and Hawaii, so I do not get why they even went there. Transcons.....Well, I have to stick with selling food on these routes considering that basically everybody else does. Except for CO, and UA.

I am not saying AA is a grand airline, and that they are the best. I am just in the state of mind, that you have to fight fire, with fire. Comparing AA, with foreign carriers is pointless, do to the fact that it is a whole different environment in the U.S.
"The low fares airline."
 
AAplatnumflier
Posts: 958
Joined: Wed Sep 15, 2004 1:40 pm

RE: AA - Food Again On Domestic Flights (over 3 Hrs)

Sun Dec 19, 2004 4:20 am

Thank you Aa767400 that is the right answer and the correct answer in my opinion I second his motion
 
TACAA320
Posts: 7153
Joined: Fri Aug 06, 2004 3:03 am

RE: AA - Food Again On Domestic Flights (over 3 Hrs)

Sun Dec 19, 2004 4:51 am

"TACA320, I was talking about Flight Attendants? And you come out with, AA is garbage? Ok, first off, let's talk about good ole TA. TA, now sells food on their flight to and from the U.S., and Central America. You always love IB, but guess what? If IB, service is superior to AA, then you are blind. If you call running into the galley after the service, and never seeing them again is service, then right on! If you want to not know what is going on with your flight for over 2 hours, then OK."

This thread is about FOOD not F/A. It's about AA not TA. Does TA sells food in that routes? Yes. But once again we are not talking about TA nor IB.

And I still think that AA sucks.

'Science without religion is lame, religion without science is blind'. Albert Einstein
 
ckfred
Posts: 4802
Joined: Wed Apr 25, 2001 12:50 pm

RE: AA - Food Again On Domestic Flights (over 3 Hrs)

Sun Dec 19, 2004 5:18 am

Look, although I miss the days when on TWA, you got a full meal between ORD and Kansas City Municipal, and the F/As (then called stewardesses) ran sprints up and down the aisle of a 707 carrying 2 trays at a time, the industry has changed so much since then.

That was also when 3 martinis at a business lunch was common.

But my grandfather, who was a very smart businessman, used to say that you had to spend money to make money, sometimes when you have no money to spend.

One of the problems is that people see air travel as a commodity. Yet, I know people who won't stay at Sheraton or Wyndham, because they don't offer as many amenties as Hyatt and Marriott, and I know who rent from only Hertz, even though it's the most expensive, because of superior service.

By cheapening it's product, AA is getting into a trap it can't escape. Since it's domestic product is no better, maybe even worse than LCCs, people have no incentive to fly AA. Yet, AA can't hope to make money if it must match B6, WN, or F9 throughout the entire cabin.

What's sad is that AA has some really good food. I've had pasta dishes that are better than many Italian restaurants, and I love the Ceasar salad that used to be served as a dinner snack in coach. The only better Ceasar salad I can think of is the Pump Room in Chicago.

But looking at this BOB program, I'm going to stick with what's on the ground and carry it on board.
 
RMenon
Posts: 113
Joined: Tue Jun 12, 2001 10:51 pm

RE: AA - Food Again On Domestic Flights (over 3 Hr

Sun Dec 19, 2004 8:44 am

Username: Qqflyboy
Rmenon, wouldn't you know I just priced out a oneway ticket from LGA to DFW TODAY on AA for $348 one-way.


Qqflyboy, that's great, but there aren't tons of business people flying between LGA and DFW on Saturdays...
AA 721 on 12/20 (LGA-DFW)
AA744 on 12/21 DFW LGA
Your Total Price 2208.70 USD

Fares may be higher here because there are no LCCs that fly from LGA to DFW. In this case, the price reflects supply and demand.
Frankly I am not interested in why AA chooses to price extortion fares the way it does, but my point stands - charging a pax who paid more than $1k for a domestic 2+ hour flight an extra $5 for a meal is cheap (especially when the meal is pretty much the old bAArf - sorry Bistro Bag)

Or, if you'd like, B6 can get you to OAK for $20 less. But, if you fly to SFO on AA, you'll get a meal, more legroom than B6 (for now), a widebody and IFE, oh, and you'll save three bucks not going over the bridge
Not sure about that - I usually need to fly into SJC and the only reason I fly into SFO and drive to SJC is to avoid the 757. As it is now B6 has at least the same and often - more legroom than AA's 757. Once MRTC is completely removed next year, the only advantage on AA is that the 762 is a widebody. Let's not even start comparing IFE on AA and B6....

And if you fly regularly, which sounds like you might, you can use those miles to upgrade to business. Business? Oh, that's right, B6 doesn't have business class. To each his own, but uncompetitive? Hardly.
Upgrades don't always clear (e.g. to/from DFW, redeyes from LAX/SFO etc) and CO/DL/NW have much more attractive upgrade options for the frequent traveler....
I am distinguishing business travel from leisure/low-yield. When I am travelling for business and pay high economy fares I will compare AA to the other legacy carriers, but when I'm going on vacation and can't use my miles/awards I will compare AA to the LCCs.

Of course, one can't really compare a legacy/network/alliance member airline like AA with B6. Upgrades, lounges, global alliances and networks - and yes B6 can't give me a First class award to Sydney. But, its AA who is doing more and more to appear LIKE an LCC. But the problem for business travelers like myself is that we are paying higher fares on AA than LCCs, and yet receiving less service/value than some of those LCC's. And the evidence is that things are going to get worse

Like any business, AA cannot simply charge some customers a ton of money and provide less benefits and service than its competitors. Why not charge for stuff that the competition does not have, and that people will actually want to pay for ? Internet access, powerports, good quality meals (not the BOB crap)
 
FLAIRPORT
Posts: 3863
Joined: Thu Oct 26, 2000 10:46 am

RE: AA - Food Again On Domestic Flights (over 3 Hrs)

Sun Dec 19, 2004 9:35 am

Ok, time for my $.02!

Yes, the airlines do not see that people want premium service and many are willing to pay a little more for a name they trust and know will give good service.
Continental may not be making a huge profit, if at all, but of the majors (except WN), they are doing a helluva lot better.

My prodictions for the future here are one of two things happening, both resulting in the same thing: premium airlines charging for premium service.

Sceneario 1: Ticket prices go down as low as they can, airlines realized they cannot do this much longer without going out of business, and try to make their airline premium...one airline does this well (with the help of advertising, of course), and we begin to see a trend. Much like how the jetBlues came about. Of course, there will still be the WNs and FLs of the world, but I can even see jetBlue becoming premium.

Scenario 2: the one that would be much better: Stock market goes up over 12,000...dot coms are back, everyone is making money again, airlines are realizing they can charge more and still compete with the LCCs, and we have premium carriers and LCCs coexisting...and capacity will not be an issue, much like pre 9/11.
NEXT FLIGHT: FLL-ATL-HPN on FL
 
ASTROJET707
Posts: 291
Joined: Sat Feb 14, 2004 9:39 am

RE: AA - Food Again On Domestic Flights (over 3 Hrs)

Sun Dec 19, 2004 9:59 am

I just had to jump, and I agree with CKFRED. I flew AA to SFO on AB763ER in F, used as J on international. The was awful, nothing positive about it. I have flown QF-F, BA-F, DL-J, CO-J UA-J and AF-J. The only US carrier that comes close is CO. On a recent trip to CDG, AA wanted $7,000 for a RT J ticket, AF wanted $2,100. Guess who got my money? AF, and the serice was amazing. If I paid $7,000 and was stuck in the shitty AA J seat I would have been one pissed off customer.

My dad retired from AA and it is sad to see the industry bottom from the glory days. So now US carriers are jumping on international service to make money. SO what happens when another SARS outbreak hits or, terrorism or a lousy European economy? I admire CO because they made a commitment to be something other than a knee-jerk reaction to the public or the economy.

Why not DL go SONG except international? Why not UA go TED except transcon and international? Would people stop flying to Hawaii because no one offered F-Class? Don't think so. As with anything else, rock bottom has to be reached before any improvements be made...a la Continental. Consolidation would help both legacies and LCCs. I currently fly AA, but once the MRTC is gone so will my business be gone. I will reevaluate my choices after 2005.
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