himmat01
Posts: 1016
Joined: Sat Dec 04, 2004 4:34 pm

Fifth Freedom Rights From India.

Mon Dec 20, 2004 1:51 am

I would like to know which airlines have fifth freedom rights from India and how many of them are actually utilizing these rights?

I remember back in the 1980s and even up to the mid 1990s, SR operated from BOM to SIN, MNL and HKG. AF had flights from BOM to SGN. SQ flew from BOM to LHR. TG operated DEL-LHR flights. CX at the moment operates on BOM-DXB sector.

Additional information on this subject would be highly appreciated.

regards,

Himmat
An airplane might disappoint any pilot but it'll never surprise a good one.
 
panamair
Posts: 3761
Joined: Fri Oct 12, 2001 2:24 am

RE: Fifth Freedom Rights From India.

Mon Dec 20, 2004 3:04 am

One oft-discussed examples would be Delta between BOM and CDG/FRA as well as the soon-to-be MAA-CDG
 
burnsie28
Posts: 5038
Joined: Mon Aug 02, 2004 1:49 am

RE: Fifth Freedom Rights From India.

Mon Dec 20, 2004 3:17 am

NW between AMS-BOM and they also have rights to serve Delhi, but right now US planes are not allowed to cross over Afghanistan, making the route too long therefore KLM now operates the flight.
 
JoFMO
Posts: 1840
Joined: Wed Jul 14, 2004 1:55 am

RE: Fifth Freedom Rights From India.

Mon Dec 20, 2004 3:21 am

What the problem with Afghanistan. Isn't it a friendly regime there? Or is it a recommendation from US authorities due to security concerns?
 
karan69
Posts: 2699
Joined: Mon Oct 04, 2004 7:57 pm

RE: Fifth Freedom Rights From India.

Mon Dec 20, 2004 3:34 am

BA used to fly to KL from BOM and SQ used to fly to MAN not LHR from BOM,
QF used to fly to SIN from BOM and then onward to SYD.
CX flies to DXB and Bangkok from BOM
 
ChiGB1973
Posts: 1394
Joined: Mon Mar 22, 2004 6:39 am

RE: Fifth Freedom Rights From India.

Mon Dec 20, 2004 3:36 am

US Airlines cannot fly over Afghanistan? What is up with that? We are flying over Iraq now.

M
 
B747-437B
Posts: 8777
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RE: Fifth Freedom Rights From India.

Mon Dec 20, 2004 4:25 am

I would like to know which airlines have fifth freedom rights from India and how many of them are actually utilizing these rights?

Pretty much every country that signed an Air Services Agreement with India during the Nehru-Shastri-Gandhi era has very liberal reciprocal rights with India. It is a function of the technical limitations of those days that aircraft had to make many stops on their long haul services and the grant of traffic rights en route was an accepted fact. Similarly Indian carriers have very liberal rights in return. It is only the later bilaterals (eg. 1981 India-Canada, etc...) that put restrictions on fifth freedom traffic rights.
"The A340-300 may boast a long range, but the A340 is underpowered" -- Robert Milton, CEO - Air Canada
 
Tango-Bravo
Posts: 2887
Joined: Sun Jun 17, 2001 1:04 am

RE: Fifth Freedom Rights From India.

Mon Dec 20, 2004 5:04 am

Let's not overlook the Fifth Freedom Rights of inestimable value that Air India has had since the days when Super Connies and other piston types were state-of-the-art long haul equipment. From that time until the present Air India has had LHR-JFK traffic rights and, at times, LHR-YYZ and LHR-ORD. In my mind, Air India's rights on these routes easily compensates for the generous Fifth Freedom Rights of other airlines routing such flights into/through India.
 
AF022
Posts: 1634
Joined: Fri Dec 26, 2003 10:41 pm

RE: Fifth Freedom Rights From India.

Mon Dec 20, 2004 6:11 am

i checked current schedules from BOM, DEL, BLR and CCU. I can check others if you want.

BOMAMS on NW
BOMAUH on RB
BOMBKK on CX
BOMCDG on DL
BOMDXB on CX
BOMFRA on DL
BOMSHJ on MS
DELPEK on ET
DELSHJ on RB

there are some other flights to points nearby (Kyrgystan, Bhutan, Nepal), but I'm not familiar enough with these countries' airlines to know if the flights are 5th freedom or not.

hope this helps,

af022
 
jasepl
Posts: 3499
Joined: Wed Jul 07, 2004 3:15 pm

RE: Fifth Freedom Rights From India.

Mon Dec 20, 2004 6:26 am

Very few airlines use their 5th freedoms these days. The ones currently being used out of BOM are:

BG: Dubai
CX: Dubai, Bangkok
DL: Paris, Frankfurt
MS: Sharjah
NW: Amsterdam
RB: Abu Dhabi

In the not-too-distant past, there were many more, including:

AC: London, Singapore
AF: Bangkok, Saigon
AZ: Kuwait (?)
BA: Dhaka, Hong Kong, Singapore
BG: Malta
ET: Beijing
KE: Bangkok
HM: Male
MK: Seychelles
PA: Frankfurt
QF: Singapore
SR: Honk Kong, Manila, Seoul
SQ: Manchester
SU: Bangkok, Hanoi
 
Namaskar
Posts: 52
Joined: Fri Dec 03, 2004 10:33 pm

RE: Fifth Freedom Rights From India.

Mon Dec 20, 2004 6:57 am

Jasepl, I flew from HKG to BOM on AF in 1988 - great memories! Also, NH flew to Bangkok from BOM at one point.
 
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FlyCaledonian
Posts: 1737
Joined: Mon Dec 29, 2003 6:18 am

RE: Fifth Freedom Rights From India.

Mon Dec 20, 2004 7:35 am

Did QF hold rights for BOM-LHR on its SYD-SIN-BOM-LHR flights? Just wondering if it did since if additional Australia-UK frequencies were agreed between the two countries then QF could potentially extend its SYD-BOM service to LHR.
Let's Go British Caledonian!
 
behramjee
Posts: 4338
Joined: Sat Aug 02, 2003 4:56 am

RE: Fifth Freedom Rights From India.

Mon Dec 20, 2004 8:10 am

U guys have missed THAI which currently flies MAA-DXB-MAA too from BKK with A 333s.

Also ET-Ethiopian DEL-PEK-DEL with B 767s/B 757s.

Royal Brunei too until very recently used to fly CCU-Dubai or Abu Dhabi cant remember which.

Biman Bangladesh flies BOM-DXB from DAC as well as DAC-DEL-BRU-JFK with DC 10s.

Until the mid 1990s...MAS used to fly DC 10s, AB4s from KUL via DEL to KHI with rights on DEL-KHI-DEL.

Sri Lankan used to fly BOM-KHI-BOM with B 732s and still have 5th freedom rights on this route which I hope they one day fly.
 
The777Man
Posts: 5918
Joined: Sun Jul 04, 1999 4:54 am

RE: Fifth Freedom Rights From India.

Mon Dec 20, 2004 8:47 am

TG used to fly LHR-DEL-BKK with full fifth freedom rights but stopped about five years ago.

The777Man
Boeing 777s flown: UA, TG, KE, BA, CX, NH, JD, JL, CZ, SQ, EK, NG, CO, AF, SV, KU, DL, AA, MH, OZ, CA, MS, SU, LY, RG, PE, AZ, KL, VN, PK, EY, NZ, AM, BR, AC, DT, UU, OS, AI, 9W, KQ, QR, VA, JJ, ET, TK, PR, BG, T5, CI, MU and LX.. Further to fly.. LH 777
 
mrniji
Posts: 5382
Joined: Sun Feb 29, 2004 11:51 am

RE: Fifth Freedom Rights From India.

Mon Dec 20, 2004 11:05 am

What the problem with Afghanistan. Isn't it a friendly regime there? Or is it a recommendation from US authorities due to security concerns?

You will fail witha ny attempt to discover any logic, sence and coherence in US policy  Nuts
"The earth provides enough resources for everyone's need, but not for some people's greed." (Gandhi)
 
User avatar
HAWK21M
Posts: 29867
Joined: Fri Jan 05, 2001 10:05 pm

RE: Fifth Freedom Rights From India.

Mon Dec 20, 2004 3:54 pm

but right now US planes are not allowed to cross over Afghanistan,
Just my Question Why,Reason.
regds
MEL
I may not win often, but I damn well never lose!!! ;)
 
mrniji
Posts: 5382
Joined: Sun Feb 29, 2004 11:51 am

RE: Fifth Freedom Rights From India.

Mon Dec 20, 2004 4:00 pm

Can be only security issues. Else see reply 14
"The earth provides enough resources for everyone's need, but not for some people's greed." (Gandhi)
 
Gemuser
Posts: 4321
Joined: Mon Nov 24, 2003 12:07 pm

RE: Fifth Freedom Rights From India.

Mon Dec 20, 2004 4:49 pm

Both QF and BA have full fifth freedom rights India - Europe and India -Australia/South Pacific. None currently being used.

Air India have equivlent. Interesting question Äre Air India's fifth freedom rights ex Oz limited to Fiji and the South Pacific or are they"general, ie could they be used OZ-US west coast"?


Gemuser
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jaysit
Posts: 10186
Joined: Thu Jun 01, 2000 11:50 pm

RE: Fifth Freedom Rights From India.

Tue Dec 21, 2004 12:08 am

SQ and QF and AC all flew Bom-Heathrow in the past.

SQ shifted over to MAN sometime in the early 90s. AC first flew a Tristar-500 in the mid-80s. They had some of the best service on the BOM-LHR route on a great airplane for many years.
Atheism is Myth Understood.
 
himmat01
Posts: 1016
Joined: Sat Dec 04, 2004 4:34 pm

RE: Fifth Freedom Rights From India.

Tue Dec 21, 2004 1:52 am

Thanks a lot guys. You all have been a great help.

regards,

Himmat
An airplane might disappoint any pilot but it'll never surprise a good one.

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