2H4
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NW 7E7 Rumors

Tue Dec 21, 2004 12:27 pm

So whatever came of all the NW 7E7 rumors that flooded this place about a month ago? Is NW still shopping? Are they currently comparing the 7E7 with the A350? Negotiating prices, perhaps?

Were they even seriously interested to begin with?

Just curious...


2H4
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jetjack74
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RE: NW 7E7 Rumors

Tue Dec 21, 2004 12:44 pm

No they were just rumors. I want to believe it, but I can't. I was on a 3-day KIX last week. I was talking to one of our captains. During the discussion I asked him if he'd heard anything about us acquiring more 747-400's. His reply was something like this: "Well i've been hearing that we're gonna convert the 400's to frieghters, and have the 330's do all of the long hauls." I said, that he might be thinking on the generic whales. He said, "oh, is that what it was?" Apparently the 7E7 isn't anywhere near concrete. NW is studying the A350 very closely. NW will probably opt for the A350, because Airbus is willing to sell it cheaper than 7E7. At NW, there's no getting away from price.

So if you see any of these word combos:
This just in!
Rumor
NW
7E7

Don't believe it. I won't believe it until I see a press-release with numbers on it.
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BOS2LAF
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RE: NW 7E7 Rumors

Tue Dec 21, 2004 12:56 pm

I agree, youre more likely to see them opt for the A350 than for the 7E7. I think the A350 is going to turn out to be a real kick in the balls for Boeing.
 
DfwRevolution
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RE: NW 7E7 Rumors

Tue Dec 21, 2004 1:52 pm

There were two things fueling the NW rumor-

1. NW suggesting that a 7E7 type aircraft would be a great complement for their Asian expanison
2. The specific inclusion of the 7E7 in the recent pilot contract signed (I might have the details on this one wrong)

In any even, the A350 seems almost tailor-made for NW, but you can't totally write the 7E7 off yet.....
 
dbo861
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RE: NW 7E7 Rumors

Tue Dec 21, 2004 2:12 pm

"In any even, the A350 seems almost tailor-made for NW, but you can't totally write the 7E7 off yet....."

How exactly is it taylor made for NW? Just because it is Airbus and NW operates the A330? Besides that, I don't see how it is anymore beneficial for NW than the 7E7, unless Airbus offers it cheaper...which will probably be the selling point. Besides that, it pretty much has the same range as the 7E7 and supposedly similar performance and efficiency..and just a few more passengers.
 
kalakaua
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RE: NW 7E7 Rumors

Tue Dec 21, 2004 2:16 pm

NW will probably opt for the A350, because Airbus is willing to sell it cheaper than 7E7.

It's sad, even though it's "tailored" to NW taste, the 7E7 is actually much cheaper than the A350.

NW paid around $80 million for their A330s; thats almost close to a 40%-50% "discount".
Gravity explains the motions of the planets, but it cannot explain who set the planets in motion.
 
747400sp
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RE: NW 7E7 Rumors

Tue Dec 21, 2004 2:22 pm

Seeing that there A330's are very new. I can not see NW with 7e7 or A350 for a long time. Why buy a plane that's meant to compete with an band new Aircraft you already have.
 
wingnutmn
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RE: NW 7E7 Rumors

Tue Dec 21, 2004 2:23 pm

I didn't see Burnsie28 talk about the possibility of the A350, so that means that the 7E7 must be the real deal....He has the inside info.....remember........... Big grin

If rumors about NW were true, They already would own a fleet of 319CJ's and have them decked out in an all business class and fly them to every major business market from DTW.

But that's all RUMORS.............. Smile

WingnutMN
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DfwRevolution
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RE: NW 7E7 Rumors

Tue Dec 21, 2004 2:25 pm

How exactly is it taylor made for NW? Just because it is Airbus and NW operates the A330?

Because the biggest void in their fleet is a 280-300 seat aircraft with the range to do Pacific work. The A333s come a little short in this regard, but the A350-900 is an ideal aircraft for these needs. It will probably be lighter than the 772ER, which was one of the reasons NW rejected it....

Besides that, it pretty much has the same range as the 7E7 and supposedly similar performance and efficiency..and just a few more passengers.

The only reason NW would have for the 7E7-8 would be to open up long-thin routes. If NW finds that a 250 seat aircraft can do this just as well as a 220 seat aircraft... no need for the -8.....
 
PSU.DTW.SCE
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RE: NW 7E7 Rumors

Tue Dec 21, 2004 2:34 pm

The whole rumor started because Burnsie is full of $hit.
He sure talked that one up pretty good. There was no way we'd here a 7E7 or A350 order by year end.


No point in further speculating.....
 
DAYflyer
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RE: NW 7E7 Rumors

Wed Dec 22, 2004 12:16 am

NW will go for the A-350 because they like the Airbus product and Airbus dominates the fleet. As much as I hate to say it, they willl likely become an all Airbus customer because Airbus wants that real bad, and is willing to give them huge discounts. Airbus has no all Airbus customers among the legacy carriers here in the US; it would be a big feather in the cap.
One Nation Under God
 
FoxBravo
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RE: NW 7E7 Rumors

Wed Dec 22, 2004 12:35 am

Actually, in all fairness, it was more than just a rumor on this forum. Flight International and/or Aviation Week (I don't remember which) actually printed an article to the effect that Northwest and KLM were considering a joint purchase of 7E7s.

However, it's important to note how it was presented. "Placing an order?" No. "Close to placing an order?" Not even. Just "considering." Which is probably true, even if it was little more than a desperate sales pitch by Boeing.
Common sense is not so common. -Voltaire
 
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jetjack74
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RE: NW 7E7 Rumors

Wed Dec 22, 2004 12:46 am

AWST also had an article years ago, that NW/KLM were studying a joint order of the 777 when it was a hot seller. KLM went on to order it, we didn't. Close partner airlines frequently do this. It's an opportunity to share data and cuts down on cost of inquiries. Most likely KLM is having NW reps gather information and conducting surveys for KLM. I mean NW may be actively pursuing a purchase. But it's anyones guess. If NW was going to buy the 7E7, they would've most likely sent a leak to the press. But I just don't see it happening right now. NW is not know to make bold moves like that.
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NWA
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RE: NW 7E7 Rumors

Wed Dec 22, 2004 4:56 am

"As much as I hate to say it, they willl likely become an all Airbus customer because Airbus wants that real bad, and is willing to give them huge discounts"

Really? What would they do with all those new 757's?
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m404
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RE: NW 7E7 Rumors

Wed Dec 22, 2004 5:31 am

It will be interesting to see if anything pans out about alliances being able to 'co-erce' or bargain for better prices from manufacturers. That is for sure what part of any statement of interest is coming from alliance partners. The inclusion of the expanded Skyteam would have stronger influence IF more than these two members chose to but dependent on legal precedents still being decided by the EU and eventually the US Justice department and various trade departments. Will this be an Anti-Trust consideration? Of course it will.

Manufacturers will be caught in an argument on whether to be allowed to bargain separatly to keep from cutting too low and a desire to grab a bigger chunk of an alliance but a bargain prices.
Less sarcasm and more thought equal better understanding
 
Thrust
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RE: NW 7E7 Rumors

Wed Dec 22, 2004 6:30 am

I have to agree that NW is far more likely to order the A350 than the Boeing 7E7 because of the cheaper deals they will get with Airbus. i also believe that NW's increasing preference of Airbus aircraft over Boeing aircraft makes the possibility of 7E7 orders seem farfetched. As for all the new 757s, the 7E7 is more of a 767 replacement than a 757 one. So NW is unaffected for the most part as far as that goes. The A380 is dangling on my mind too...would NW replace their 747 fleet with the A380?
Fly one thing; Fly it well
 
NW7E7
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RE: NW 7E7 Rumors

Wed Dec 22, 2004 7:22 am

NOOOOO!!!! NW will not get the A350. They will get the 7E7, it is just a matter of time. The 7E7 will be ready for ops about 2-3 years earlier and at the same time they order the 7E7 they will order some more 753's and reopen the 757 line. If Boeing can get them to order the 7E7 by reopening the 757 line then they will do it.

NW7E7
 
CRPilot
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RE: NW 7E7 Rumors

Wed Dec 22, 2004 7:27 am

NW7E7

"If Boeing can get them to order the 7E7 by reopening the 757 line then they will do it."

Highly unlikely! But what's your source???
Flying is a privilege!
 
DfwRevolution
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RE: NW 7E7 Rumors

Wed Dec 22, 2004 7:35 am

The A380 is dangling on my mind too...would NW replace their 747 fleet with the A380?

If any North American airline were to get the A388, it would be NW... but that's still a *no* IMO. The newest pilot contract gives no mention to the A380, which means it's likely not in their near-term vision either.
 
Thrust
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RE: NW 7E7 Rumors

Wed Dec 22, 2004 7:36 am

When I see NW order the 7E7 I will believe. As for the 757 line reopening, how can one airline be enough influence for Boeing to reopen the 757 line? NW is not likely to place another 100 757 orders...if Boeing is smart, they will not open the 757 line again until many many other airlines join NW in requesting the re-opening of the 757 line. That however, is definitely not going to happen.
Fly one thing; Fly it well
 
gigneil
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RE: NW 7E7 Rumors

Wed Dec 22, 2004 7:37 am

Highly unlikely! But what's your source???

He doesn't have one, because its not possible.

The 757 cannot be reopened at this point.

N
 
BlueSky1976
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RE: NW 7E7 Rumors

Wed Dec 22, 2004 11:04 am

In any even, the A350 seems almost tailor-made for NW, but you can't totally write the 7E7 off yet.....

Boeing would have to make NW an offer NW absolutely could not refuse. The aquisition cost will be less, A350 will have common cockpit with NW's A319/320/330s, common maintenance to a certain degree, and given the latest rumour about the designers looking at PW as one of the engine options, common powerplant. Even if the fuel economy falls a little short in comparison to 7E7, the commonality with the other fleet types will offset the extra cost, especially when it comes to crew training and a certain degree of spare parts.

On the other hand, get ready for MASSIVE 7E7 orders from DL, CO & AA when the right time comes...
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jetjack74
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RE: NW 7E7 Rumors

Wed Dec 22, 2004 12:16 pm

Boeing would have to make NW an offer NW absolutely could not refuse. The aquisition cost will be less, A350 will have common cockpit with NW's A319/320/330s, common maintenance to a certain degree, and given the latest rumour about the designers looking at PW as one of the engine options, common powerplant. Even if the fuel economy falls a little short in comparison to 7E7, the commonality with the other fleet types will offset the extra cost, especially when it comes to crew training and a certain degree of spare parts
NW will keep Kmart-ing it's fleet.
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rj777
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RE: NW 7E7 Rumors

Wed Dec 22, 2004 12:22 pm

Then why did NW order the 757 over the A321?
 
gigneil
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RE: NW 7E7 Rumors

Wed Dec 22, 2004 12:36 pm

NW had the 757 long before the 321 was a gleam in Airbus' eye.

If NW needs further domestic capacity, it will have to come in the form of the A321.

N
 
BillElliott9
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RE: NW 7E7 Rumors

Wed Dec 22, 2004 12:39 pm

"Then why did NW order the 757 over the A321?"

NW had the 757 long before the A321 became a viable option. The 757 has been a great asset to NW -- Both -200 and -300 series. If it works don't....
You can fight without ever winning but never really win without a fight.
 
Type-Rated
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RE: NW 7E7 Rumors

Wed Dec 22, 2004 2:34 pm

Where is our favourite armchair airline CEO, Burnsie28?

He is suspiciously absent from this thread.

He's probably in MSP, consulting with the NW board of directors.  Wink/being sarcastic
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