juventus
Posts: 2017
Joined: Tue Dec 07, 2004 11:12 pm

AA Asking Its Pilots To Volunteer To Fly More

Tue Dec 21, 2004 10:13 pm

American Airlines is asking its pilots to volunteer to fly more during the holidays, as their current roster is not enough to cover the christmas schedule. The union is very unhappy with the request as 2,600 AA pilots are out of work, and many others about to get furlough.
 
SPREE34
Posts: 1567
Joined: Tue Jun 29, 2004 6:09 am

RE: AA Asking Its Pilots To Volunteer To Fly More

Wed Dec 22, 2004 5:05 am

Sounds like management blew it. Management built a schedule they do not have assets to support. This probably means they sold product to the flying public they don't have. Gee, I wonder what would happen if I sold (took your money) you 100 widgets, but couldn't produce those widgets, and knew I couldn't produce those widgets. Short version, I go to jail.
So I guess American Airlines management has lied to the pilots about how many furloughs were necessary, (among other things) and lied to it's customers about the services it can provide.(while taking their money) What a great company. What a magnificent example of US corporate (political?) ethics.
I don't understand everything I don't know about this.
 
thegreatchecko
Posts: 689
Joined: Sat Mar 06, 2004 3:34 pm

RE: AA Asking Its Pilots To Volunteer To Fly More

Wed Dec 22, 2004 5:26 am

SPREE, before we start having an anurism, lets think about this.  Smile/happy/getting dizzy

There are SOME pilots that seriously take advantage of the system.
(notice I said the word "some")

The way the contracts are set up, if you have a high enough senority, you can hold a reserve line (which isnt necessarily bad) and then work the sick leave system, so you rarely fly. I bet this was more aimed at these guys, not the pilots who are flying the line every day.

I bet the airline has more than enough pilots to work the flights, they are just foreseeing these people doing the same things they have been doing in the past, cutting the effective number of pilots they have.

Also, I'd really like to see the document or a source for this. I'm sure its true, but its still is a rumor right now.

GreatChecko
"A pilot's plane she is. She will love you if you deserve it, and try to kill you if you don't...She is the Mighty Q400"
 
NYCAAer
Posts: 595
Joined: Thu Jul 29, 2004 10:22 pm

RE: AA Asking Its Pilots To Volunteer To Fly More

Wed Dec 22, 2004 5:30 am

Also, keep in mind a lot of pilots and flight attendants are out "sick" during the holidays. In my work group (F/As), the sick calls go up around 50% at Christmas and New Year's. It's ridiculous.
 
777STL
Posts: 2770
Joined: Mon Dec 13, 2004 8:22 am

RE: AA Asking Its Pilots To Volunteer To Fly More

Wed Dec 22, 2004 6:15 am

"Sounds like management blew it. Management built a schedule they do not have assets to support. This probably means they sold product to the flying public they don't have. Gee, I wonder what would happen if I sold (took your money) you 100 widgets, but couldn't produce those widgets, and knew I couldn't produce those widgets. Short version, I go to jail.
So I guess American Airlines management has lied to the pilots about how many furloughs were necessary, (among other things) and lied to it's customers about the services it can provide.(while taking their money) What a great company. What a magnificent example of US corporate (political?) ethics."

You're assuming an awful lot there. Talk about blanket statements, sheesh..
PHX based
 
juventus
Posts: 2017
Joined: Tue Dec 07, 2004 11:12 pm

RE: AA Asking Its Pilots To Volunteer To Fly More

Wed Dec 22, 2004 6:18 am

I don't think AA is going to bring back people to work for just two weeks. What's going to happen is the reserve pilots flying many hours, even maxing out.
 
artsyman
Posts: 4516
Joined: Wed Feb 28, 2001 12:35 pm

RE: AA Asking Its Pilots To Volunteer To Fly More

Wed Dec 22, 2004 6:23 am

At Continental, they pay flight attendants an extra $5 per hour for every hour they work over their standard line. This "Incentive pay" rewards those who want to fly more hours, and saves the company the need of having to hire extra workers (and the costs they bring in benefits etc) to cover the shortfall.

J
 
aa777jr
Posts: 2269
Joined: Tue Feb 17, 2004 12:03 pm

RE: AA Asking Its Pilots To Volunteer To Fly More

Wed Dec 22, 2004 6:32 am

and many others about to get furlough.

what is your source?
A liberal is a man who is right most of the time, but he's right too soon.
 
juventus
Posts: 2017
Joined: Tue Dec 07, 2004 11:12 pm

RE: AA Asking Its Pilots To Volunteer To Fly More

Wed Dec 22, 2004 8:09 am

Sorry. The source is USAToday.com, money section-today in the sky.
 
ckfred
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Joined: Wed Apr 25, 2001 12:50 pm

RE: AA Asking Its Pilots To Volunteer To Fly More

Wed Dec 22, 2004 2:55 pm

You also run into problems with weather. If snow, rain, fog, etc. winds up causing a number of pilots to fly extra hours early in the month, they may wind up near monthly maximums towards the end of the month. Thus, reserves get called, and some pilots with low-time lines may volunteer for an extra trip.
 
ramerinianair
Posts: 1452
Joined: Tue Nov 11, 2003 6:03 am

RE: AA Asking Its Pilots To Volunteer To Fly More

Wed Dec 22, 2004 3:30 pm

The way the contracts are set up, if you have a high enough senority, you can hold a reserve line (which isnt necessarily bad) and then work the sick leave system, so you rarely fly. I bet this was more aimed at these guys, not the pilots who are flying the line every day.
I don't get it. Sorry for being stupid when it comes to this but, how do the pilots take advantage of the system?
Thanks,
SR
W N = my Worst Nightmare!!!!!
 
AAR90
Posts: 3140
Joined: Fri Jan 21, 2000 11:51 am

RE: AA Asking Its Pilots To Volunteer To Fly More

Wed Dec 22, 2004 5:57 pm

I don't get it. Sorry for being stupid when it comes to this but, how do the pilots take advantage of the system?

There are many limitations in the contract that create opportunities for abuse by both sides --management as well as pilots. Far too many to list here and even worse trying to explain to someone who doesn't "live the contract" to fully understand (heck, 18 years of living the contract and I don't understand 1/2 the ways I've been told). A very simple example is calling in sick. FAR's place the sole responsibility of determining if a pilot is unfit to fly on that pilot. The contract says that if you determine yourself to be unfit to fly, you should call in sick. If you do, you are removed from your trip and paid the trip's time (read: pay) from your "sick bank" (one builds bank time on a per month basis and not using it). Management has to call out reserve pilot to fly the trip. When enough folks do this at the same time or over the course of a month and the airline starts to run low on reserve pilots.

Contract and FAR's place daily, weekly, monthly and annual limits on how much a pilot can fly which also limits pilot availability.

and many others about to get furlough.
what is your source?


Up to 450 more starting in January. Source is American Airlines Flight Department... i.e. the Chief Pilot.

This "Incentive pay" rewards those who want to fly more hours...

AA is paying "Premium Pay" for pilots who make themselves available to fly extra trips. Contract limitations are being waived in order to make more pilots available. However; that alone may not be enough to free up pilots. i.e. My current schedule makes me unavailable for any Premium Pay flying due to FAR limitations even if I wanted to fly the extra time.
*NO CARRIER* -- A Naval Aviator's worst nightmare!
 
ZKSUJ
Posts: 6812
Joined: Tue May 18, 2004 5:15 pm

RE: AA Asking Its Pilots To Volunteer To Fly More

Wed Dec 22, 2004 6:19 pm

Volunteer-Does'nt that mean fly for free?