estick
Posts: 46
Joined: Mon Jan 22, 2001 4:41 am

LH To Discontinue EZE-FRA Nonstop!

Thu Dec 23, 2004 4:33 am

Hello all!
Checking on my computer, I've just noticed LH is changing its daily nonstop EZE-FRA flight for a daily EZE-GRU-FRA. They're also changing the 346 for a 744. Flights from SCL will operate SCL-GRU-FRA.
Seasonal change only????

Regards to all!

Estick
 
estick
Posts: 46
Joined: Mon Jan 22, 2001 4:41 am

RE: LH To Discontinue EZE-FRA Nonstop!

Thu Dec 23, 2004 4:42 am

Sory, forgot to add when......It starts on 18-Feb-05

Greetings

 
Sabena332
Posts: 14938
Joined: Wed May 09, 2001 3:57 am

RE: LH To Discontinue EZE-FRA Nonstop!

Thu Dec 23, 2004 4:46 am

I remember that they had the same routing (EZE and SCL via GRU) a few months ago but then they switched back to FRA-EZE-SCL.

What will happen to GIG then? Currently is LH flying FRA-GRU-GIG.

Patrick
NZ1's mother is a disgusting crack-whore and his father is a worthless alcoholic!
 
hardiwv
Posts: 4341
Joined: Sat Oct 09, 2004 11:30 pm

RE: LH To Discontinue EZE-FRA Nonstop!

Thu Dec 23, 2004 4:48 am

So it means GRU will get TWO DAILY SERVICES, one FRA-GRU-EZE and one FRA-GRU-SCL. Is this correct?

As I speculated, LH would then start a direct FRA-GIG service.

It means that Germany-Brazil flights will continue to increase. Currently, Brazil-Germany is served as follows:

FRA-GRU-GIG, daily, LH 747-400
FRA-GRU, daily, RG 777-200
FRA-GIG, daily, RG MD-11
MUC-GRU, 4 x week, RG MD-11 (as of Feb/05)

Is there room for another two daily flights?  Wow!

Rgs,
Hardi
 
anxebla
Posts: 1696
Joined: Tue Dec 23, 2003 8:31 am

RE: LH To Discontinue EZE-FRA Nonstop!

Thu Dec 23, 2004 4:52 am

... it's same which BA does, a stop at GRU on the way to Europe. How does works this LH's leg to EZE/SCL?
AIRBUS 320 The world's most advanced single-aisle aircraft
 
LHSTR
Posts: 212
Joined: Wed Mar 21, 2001 10:24 pm

RE: LH To Discontinue EZE-FRA Nonstop!

Thu Dec 23, 2004 4:55 am

GIG will be discontinued effective Feb. 18.

To me not very surprising, as it is not the most popular destination with business travellers. And it is rather easy to connect in SAO. Travellers dont lose any time on their way to GIG by connecting in SAO instead of taking the same plane to GIG.
 
estick
Posts: 46
Joined: Mon Jan 22, 2001 4:41 am

RE: LH To Discontinue EZE-FRA Nonstop!

Thu Dec 23, 2004 4:57 am

By now, GRU-FRA shows 3 daily nonstops. LH503 on a 744, LH527 with a 340 and RG8740 with 777. Plus Rg's daily GIG-FRA M11 and GRU-MUC 4 x week on M11.

WOW!

 
hardiwv
Posts: 4341
Joined: Sat Oct 09, 2004 11:30 pm

RE: LH To Discontinue EZE-FRA Nonstop!

Thu Dec 23, 2004 5:01 am

Indeed:

LH will double flights to GRU to TWO DAILY FLIGHTS as of 18 Feb/05, as follows:

FROM GRU TO FRA:
Flights LH503 LH527
GRU 16:15 19:40
FRA 6:25+1 10:15+1
Equip B747-400 A340-600
Classes FCM CM


FROM FRA TO GRU
Flights LH502 LH526
FRA 22:10 22:45
GRU 7:00+1 8:05+1
Equip B747-400 A340-600
Classes FCM CM

 Wow!

This is a major investment in Brazil! As I predicted, possibly LH will also start daily nonstop FRA-GIG!

Here will be the total flights Germany-Brazil as of Feb/05:

FRA-GRU LH 747-400, daily
FRA-GRU LH A340-600, daily
FRA-GRU RG 777-200, daily
FRA-GIG, RG MD-11, daily
MUC-GRU, RG MD-11, 4 x week

32 flights per week! And I'm not counting the possible nonstop LH FRA-GIG!

Is all this movement because of the huge German colony in South Brazil ??  Smile

WOW!!!!!!!!

Rgs,
Hardi


[Edited 2004-12-22 21:07:09]
 
Sabena332
Posts: 14938
Joined: Wed May 09, 2001 3:57 am

RE: LH To Discontinue EZE-FRA Nonstop!

Thu Dec 23, 2004 5:13 am

FRA-GRU LH 747-400, daily
FRA-GRU LH A340-600, daily


The 346 will continue to SCL and the 744 to EZE according to Amadeus. Maybe some travelers complained about the lack of a First Class on the flight to EZE, thus the change to the 744 on this flight.

Patrick
NZ1's mother is a disgusting crack-whore and his father is a worthless alcoholic!
 
PPVRA
Posts: 7864
Joined: Fri Nov 12, 2004 7:48 am

RE: LH To Discontinue EZE-FRA Nonstop!

Thu Dec 23, 2004 5:16 am

Don't forget LH is to fly MUC-GRU 3 X Weekly.

I think LH might leave the GIG-FRA flight for RG...I mean, at least share the wealth  Big thumbs up

Great news!!!

PPVRA
"If goods do not cross borders, soldiers will" - Frederic Bastiat
 
hardiwv
Posts: 4341
Joined: Sat Oct 09, 2004 11:30 pm

RE: LH To Discontinue EZE-FRA Nonstop!

Thu Dec 23, 2004 5:24 am

Wow, it shows the power of Sao Paulo...that's a lot of fights, and a lot of business class seats to fill...

LH is also capitalising on the Brazilian tarffic to Asia, since the establishment of transit VISA restrictions in the US. Let's us not forget that Brazilians don't need VISA for Europe.

But to be fair, credits must also go to President Lula, as the Brazilian economy is growing really healthy: 6%, reflecting a 2004 increase in 11% in domestic traffic, and 8% in international traffic. In a country of 180 million, this is a considerable growth.

Rgs,
 
argento
Posts: 219
Joined: Wed Feb 02, 2000 1:44 pm

RE: LH To Discontinue EZE-FRA Nonstop!

Thu Dec 23, 2004 5:30 am

Maybe some travelers complained about the lack of a First Class on the flight to EZE, thus the change to the 744 on this flight.

In my opinion they will complained about the lack of non-stop service.
LH was/is a traditional business traveler carrier from Argentina to Germany , Eastern Europe , Middle East and Asia.I do not know how is doing C class, but for me it is not a good move.
Maybe is good time for AR to go back to FRA non-stop with some A342.
 
Marambio
Posts: 1145
Joined: Wed Oct 13, 2004 9:41 am

RE: LH To Discontinue EZE-FRA Nonstop!

Thu Dec 23, 2004 5:37 am

Good evening gentlemen,

This is so damn strange.

I personally will fly FRA-EZE on February 27th and, according to my travel agent, I was going to have an A346 non-stop. I just checked at Amadeus and it will be a 744 1-stop.

This strange schedule will only last a month - from Saturday, February 19, 2005 until Saturday, March 26, 2005, which, in my opinion, makes things even more weird.

I am quite happy I'll get the 744, as it is more comfortable than the A346, but anyway I will call LH to complain nobody did ever tell me, nor their local website mentions it.

Saludos,
Marambio
Aerolíneas Argentinas - La Argentina que levanta vuelo
 
UairFokker
Posts: 106
Joined: Mon Dec 20, 2004 3:21 am

RE: LH To Discontinue EZE-FRA Nonstop!

Thu Dec 23, 2004 5:42 am

Strange, I thought the EZE route nonstop was a succes for LH. I was waiting on the opportunity to try the A346 on this route. Seems I wont have the chance.
 
hardiwv
Posts: 4341
Joined: Sat Oct 09, 2004 11:30 pm

RE: LH To Discontinue EZE-FRA Nonstop!

Thu Dec 23, 2004 5:43 am

I agree with Argento, a non-stop service is much more important than First Class. The stop-over in GRU will add at least 1-2 hours in the flying time FRA-EZE.

This is a surprising move by LH, and it will give AF an edge in EZE.

It also shows that LH is really focusing in the GRU market.

As PPVRA noted, FRA-GIG nonstop will now be left for RG to operate. After all, LH has to leave "something" for RG...and LH pax could easily make the connection GRU-GIG with RG.

Will LH have traffic rights GRU-EZE and GRU-SCL? Anyway, these two markets are now well saturated...

Rgs,
 
hardiwv
Posts: 4341
Joined: Sat Oct 09, 2004 11:30 pm

RE: LH To Discontinue EZE-FRA Nonstop!

Thu Dec 23, 2004 5:47 am

This strange schedule will only last a month

On LH's Brazilian webpage and timetable it informs that the flights will operate from Feb/05 until Feb/06 one year.

http://www.lufthansa-brazil.com/fly/br/pt/index/

Rgs,
 
Southamerica
Posts: 2298
Joined: Tue Dec 02, 2003 2:56 am

RE: LH To Discontinue EZE-FRA Nonstop!

Thu Dec 23, 2004 5:50 am


Latin America-wise, BA and LH keep moving one way, while IB and AF keep moving the other way.

BA cancelling BOG and CCS, leaving only 4 destinations in the region with pretty odd and unconfortable schedules. LH re-designing services to the southern cone, dropping GIG and decreasing MEX.

AF, on the other hand, adding nonstops to SCL and keeping EZE daily, all on 777. They are also increasing MEX significantly and continue on serving several destinations in northern South America themselves, or through their partner KLM. IB, not even worth to mention.


Oh well...




SOUTHAMERICA
 
LHSTR
Posts: 212
Joined: Wed Mar 21, 2001 10:24 pm

RE: LH To Discontinue EZE-FRA Nonstop!

Thu Dec 23, 2004 5:50 am

@Marambio

As the flight was just uploaded in the CRS, your booking will be send on the travel agents queue, who is responsible to inform you about an schedule change.
 
hardiwv
Posts: 4341
Joined: Sat Oct 09, 2004 11:30 pm

RE: LH To Discontinue EZE-FRA Nonstop!

Thu Dec 23, 2004 6:02 am

SOUTHAMERICA:

Not to mention that while LH dropped GIG, since Nov/04 AF is operating daily non-stop CDG-GIG with the 747-400.

On the other hand, LH strategy does make sense somehow. For LH to drop GIG is ok, since pax could easily connect GRU-GIG with partner airline RG. GRU is also Star's hub in South America. But still, I'm impressed by the amount of flights and seats that LH will make available to GRU alone....

I dont want to make "terrorism", but I have a voice telling me that BA will very soon terminate its flight to EZE and GIG, leaving its service to LHR-GRU only....

Rgs,
 
JoFMO
Posts: 1840
Joined: Wed Jul 14, 2004 1:55 am

RE: LH To Discontinue EZE-FRA Nonstop!

Thu Dec 23, 2004 6:33 am

It is a shame that they give up EZE nonstop. But it also happened ago before they introduced the A346. I hope that they will go nonstop again next winter, when traffic normally picks up. I think they have a too less planes for keeping EZE nonstop and also increasing needed capacity to GRU. So they decided to focus on GRU over the summer, but I am quite sure that they will serve EZE nonstop again next winter.
 
Southamerica
Posts: 2298
Joined: Tue Dec 02, 2003 2:56 am

RE: LH To Discontinue EZE-FRA Nonstop!

Thu Dec 23, 2004 6:54 am

I dont want to make "terrorism", but I have a voice telling me that BA will very soon terminate its flight to EZE and GIG, leaving its service to LHR-GRU only

I wouldn't be surprised, and aside from BA's trend to stick to higher-yielding destinations, there would be another strong reason for doing so:

IBERIA





SOUTHAMERICA
 
Marambio
Posts: 1145
Joined: Wed Oct 13, 2004 9:41 am

RE: LH To Discontinue EZE-FRA Nonstop!

Thu Dec 23, 2004 12:56 pm

Will LH have traffic rights GRU-EZE and GRU-SCL? Anyway, these two markets are now well saturated...

Yes, they will. Before re-introducing FRA-EZE-SCL, LH already had traffic rights for both GRU-SCL and GRU-EZE. I have flown EZE-GRU-FRA about 4 times, and I have to say that 95% of pax were continuing to FRA, with only 5% leaving at GRU. Don't know how things did in GRU-SCL.

@Marambio

As the flight was just uploaded in the CRS, your booking will be send on the travel agents queue, who is responsible to inform you about an schedule change.


Danke schön, I'll call my travel agent tomorrow morning.

As a Lufthansa Senator, I don't see this move too bad from a passenger point of view. I know it will add 2 more hours to my travel time, but I have to tell you guys the 744 is way more comfortable than the A346, plus on the northbound flight 14:15 is just too much. It is better to fly 11:50, strech your legs for a while and then continue to your final destination.

On the other side, I am really pissed of with this "we don't give a sh!t for our passengers" policy, which is becoming more and more normal at Lufthansa. I bet 99% of LH pax don't know about this news - no e-mail, no webpage updating, no nothing. Only aviation nuts know about it, since we constantly check Amadeus and browse aviation-related forums.

Anyway, I guess I'll give a try to RG, AC or UA next time I go visiting my relatives in Holland, as I still want to earn Miles & More miles.

Saludos,
Marambio (used-to-be proud Lufthansa Senator member)
Aerolíneas Argentinas - La Argentina que levanta vuelo
 
JoFMO
Posts: 1840
Joined: Wed Jul 14, 2004 1:55 am

RE: LH To Discontinue EZE-FRA Nonstop!

Thu Dec 23, 2004 2:47 pm

@Marimbo:

Don't be so harsh with them. It came here as a breaking news fresh from the booking mashine. I updated my e-timetable from them last sunday, and it was not included. So give them some more days to inform their passengers. If you hanven't recieved any news at the beginning of January it is ok to blame.
 
LHSTR
Posts: 212
Joined: Wed Mar 21, 2001 10:24 pm

RE: LH To Discontinue EZE-FRA Nonstop!

Thu Dec 23, 2004 4:47 pm

@Marimbo

It was just announced yesterday. I have just checked the LH website in Argentina and as limited as my spanish is, there is some news on the website.

Also, as most people dont recognize, if you book through an travel agent, it is the responsibility of the travel agent to inform you about possible changes.

However, if you book directly with LH, than LH has to inform you.

I know it makes the flight longer, but at least you have the option to use your miles for LHs First Class.  Big grin
 
Udo
Posts: 4288
Joined: Tue May 18, 1999 5:16 pm

RE: LH To Discontinue EZE-FRA Nonstop!

Thu Dec 23, 2004 5:01 pm

Probably it was Mr. Jürgen Trittin who was pissed that no First Class was available any more to EZE. He might have told that to Wolfgang Mayrhuber who is known for accepting special requests from the green puppet...  Wink/being sarcastic


Regards
Udo
Me & You & a Plane Named Blue...
 
hardiwv
Posts: 4341
Joined: Sat Oct 09, 2004 11:30 pm

RE: LH To Discontinue EZE-FRA Nonstop!

Thu Dec 23, 2004 5:17 pm

plus on the northbound flight 14:15 is just too much. It is better to fly 11:50, strech your legs for a while and then continue to your final destination.

I must agree with you that for such a long flight as EZE-FRA and/or SCL-FRA the stop-over in GRU makes the trip much more comfortable.

I have to tell you guys the 744 is way more comfortable than the A346

However, I disagree that the 747 is more convenient/comfortable than the A340-600. There is no IFE in Economy in LH 747s and LH new business class is only available in the A340s.

I also dont see any reason to be mad at LH. LH's webpage in Brazil has a big announcement saying that there will be 2 daily flights. And february is still 2 months ago, there is plenty of time for LH to inform pax in EZE and GIG about the changes.

As for traffic rights between GRU and EZE/SCL, LH cannot expect make money as there are several flights a day in both routes. I would even say that these routes are saturated.

One thing I'm sure: over the whole year LH flight GRU-FRA was packed, with load factors above 90%. So much that LH was becoming one of the most expensive airlines in Brazil; sometimes you simply could not book a seat.

All in all, I think is great news for GRU which now will be served with two excellent airplanes! It is just amazing the amount of flights Brazil-Germany. I am sure all the German colony in South Brazil is pretty happy about it!  Smile

Rgs,
Hardi


[Edited 2004-12-23 09:24:36]
 
raivavae
Posts: 81
Joined: Wed Jul 25, 2001 6:56 am

RE: LH To Discontinue EZE-FRA Nonstop!

Thu Dec 23, 2004 6:09 pm

when is AF CDG-SCL nonstop supposed to restart? thanks.
 
hardiwv
Posts: 4341
Joined: Sat Oct 09, 2004 11:30 pm

RE: LH To Discontinue EZE-FRA Nonstop!

Thu Dec 23, 2004 6:28 pm

This is the information posted on LH's webpage in Argentina:

"Este cambio...esta motivado a su vez por un constante aumento de los costos de nuestra operación en el aeropuerto de Ezeiza. "

In summary, it states " this change was motivated because of the increasing cost of LH operations in EZE"

I found this statement very vague to say the least. Maybe some of our A.net members from Argentina could help us with something more specific. Are operational costs in EZE high?

About LH A340 x LH 747, visit the link below and you will see how much superior is LH product in the A340:

http://lufthansa-business-class.de/es/flash.html

Rgs,
 
Lufthansa747
Posts: 2953
Joined: Tue May 18, 1999 7:45 am

RE: LH To Discontinue EZE-FRA Nonstop!

Thu Dec 23, 2004 7:06 pm

Not only does the 346 have new C class, but the 747 in LH config is pure torture in regular Y class rows. Not that the 340 is much better in cattle class... Both provide more or less terrible experience in the back. I just had 33K (after exit row, no seat in front), and my legs in normal sitting position were a good 5cm past the seatback of 33HJ.
Air Asia Super Elite, Cebu Pacific Titanium
 
FlySSC
Posts: 5179
Joined: Tue Aug 12, 2003 1:38 am

RE: LH To Discontinue EZE-FRA Nonstop!

Thu Dec 23, 2004 10:55 pm

Raivavae,

AF will restart CDG-SCL nonstop next winter 2005/6.

3 x Weekly nonstop CDG-SCL-CDG
3 x Weekly via EZE.

Check this for more details :

http://www.airliners.net/discussions/general_aviation/read.main/1853490
 
hardiwv
Posts: 4341
Joined: Sat Oct 09, 2004 11:30 pm

RE: LH To Discontinue EZE-FRA Nonstop!

Thu Dec 23, 2004 11:51 pm

Currently AF flies daily to SCL with a stop-over in EZE. Does it mean that AF will reduce its flights to SCL to 6 x week? On the other hand, SCL will get 3 nonstop flights.

I've heard rumours (from KL crew members) that AF would take over KL flights AMS-GRU and therefore double flights CDG-GRU to two daily flights. Any information in this regard?

Rgs,
 
Sabena332
Posts: 14938
Joined: Wed May 09, 2001 3:57 am

RE: LH To Discontinue EZE-FRA Nonstop!

Thu Dec 23, 2004 11:56 pm

Probably it was Mr. Jürgen Trittin who was pissed that no First Class was available any more to EZE. He might have told that to Wolfgang Mayrhuber who is known for accepting special requests from the green puppet...



Hilarious, that made my day  Big thumbs up.

Patrick
NZ1's mother is a disgusting crack-whore and his father is a worthless alcoholic!
 
johnnybgoode
Posts: 2144
Joined: Wed Jan 03, 2001 8:47 pm

RE: LH To Discontinue EZE-FRA Nonstop!

Fri Dec 24, 2004 1:38 am

LH was keen to put its A346 on the EZE-SCL routing because that service has never performed too well. apparently, the A346 was not the solution they hoped for so they now changed it to onestop flights via GRU. i think this is what the argentinian news article (post #27) refers to.

I don´t think LH is going to have a hard time to fill all the seats to GRU since Sao Paulo is home to more than 1000 branch offices of German companies and organizations. business traffic between GRU and FRA has always been very strong.

rgds
daniel
If only pure sweetness was offered, why's this bitter taste left in my mouth.
 
FlySSC
Posts: 5179
Joined: Tue Aug 12, 2003 1:38 am

RE: LH To Discontinue EZE-FRA Nonstop!

Fri Dec 24, 2004 2:30 am

Hardiwv,

You are right. Next summer AF will reduce From DAILY to 6 x Weekly its flights to SCL but with 3 x Weekly NONSTOP and 3 x Weekly via EZE.

EZE will continue to be served DAILY nonstop. So the capacity in terms of seats offered per week to both SCL and EZE will be increased.

AF ants to add flights to GRU but can't do so because of the bi-lateral agreement with Brazil : with a DAILY nonstop CDG-GRU and a Daily NONSTOP CDG-GIG, AF is using the maximum of frequencies allowed by this agreement, so these rumors of a transfer of the KLM flights to GRU from KL/AMS to AF/CDG are just...rumors ! for the moment...


 
Marambio
Posts: 1145
Joined: Wed Oct 13, 2004 9:41 am

RE: LH To Discontinue EZE-FRA Nonstop!

Fri Dec 24, 2004 2:52 am

I found this statement very vague to say the least. Maybe some of our A.net members from Argentina could help us with something more specific. Are operational costs in EZE high?

Operational costs at EZE are, as far as I know, very high. Some people even say they are one of the world's highest. Add to this the fact that Aeropuertos Argentina 2000 is not the easiest company to deal with - they tend to be quite selfish and don't usually accept what airlines want. That's why at EZE you have to pay at the airport your 18-dollar airport tax, instead of it being included in your ticket, as it happens in almost everywhere else in the world.

However, I disagree that the 747 is more convenient/comfortable than the A340-600. There is no IFE in Economy in LH 747s and LH new business class is only available in the A340s.

Well, as of the new Business Class, I have experienced it once on a free upgrade they gave me, but that's it. Since I am an Economy Class flier, I don't mind about it.

There is IFE in Economy in the 747s, which is about the same than on the A346. The 747s have 3 or 4 less music channels than the A346, but still the seat pitch on the 747s tends to be more generous. For that matter, the A346's IFE is not great either, since the famous PTVs are yet to be installed.

As of the new schedule, here it is:

LH 502 FRA 2210 GRU 0600+1 EZE 0945+1
LH 503 EZE 1130 GRU 1400 FRA 0625+1

Lufthansa Argentina's press release mentions the EZE-SCL route will be codeshared with a Star Alliance partner, which makes me think LH will codeshare with AC on that flight. Nevertheless, AC's flight isn't daily (3x weekly). Maybe RG will restart GRU-EZE-SCL, although I don't know if they had freedom rights in that route?

Saludos,
Marambio
Aerolíneas Argentinas - La Argentina que levanta vuelo
 
DABVF
Posts: 150
Joined: Sat Sep 11, 2004 10:39 pm

RE: LH To Discontinue EZE-FRA Nonstop!

Fri Dec 24, 2004 2:59 am

Here an actual overwiew of LH's plans for Summer 2005:

>> from Frankfurt
LH 582 Kairo 1_3_56_ A330-200
LH 612 Baku - Ashgabat _2_4__7 A330-200
LH 648 Almaty 1234567 A330-200
LH 690 Tel Aviv 1_3_56_ A330-200
LH 400 New York 1234567 A330-300
LH 416 Washington 1234567 A330-300
LH 442 Detroit 1234567 A330-300
LH 562 Port Harcourt - Abuja _2_4_6_ A330-300
LH 564 Lagos - Accra 1234567 A330-300
LH 582 Kairo _2_4__7 A330-300
LH 588 Kairo - Khartoum 12_4__7 A330-300
LH 590 Addis Abeba ____5_7 A330-300
LH 592 Jeddah 1_3__6_ A330-300
LH 628 Kuwait - Damman 1_3_5__ A330-300
LH 632 Riad - Abu Dhabi 1_3_5__ A330-300
LH 636 Kuwait - Abu Dhabi _2_4_67 A330-300
LH 652 Kairo - Sanaa __3_56_ A330-300
LH 690 Tel Aviv _2_4__7 A330-300
LH 406 New York 1234567 A340-300
LH 420 Boston 1234567 A340-300
LH 422 Boston 1234567 A340-300
LH 426 Philadelphia 1_3_5__ A340-300
LH 432 Chicago 1234567 A340-300
LH 438 Dallas/Fort Worth 1234567 A340-300
LH 440 Houston 1234567 A340-300
LH 444 Atlanta 1234567 A340-300
LH 468 Portland 1234567 A340-300
LH 534 Caracas 1234567 A340-300
LH 576 Kapstadt _2_4_6_ A340-300
LH 590 Addis Abeba __3____ A340-300
LH 600 Teheran 1234567 A340-300
LH 630 Dubai _2_4_6_ A340-300
LH 634 Dubai - Muscat 1_3_5_7 A340-300
LH 736 Nagoya 1234567 A340-300
LH 752 Hyderabad _2_4_6_ A340-300
LH 754 Bangalore 12_4_67 A340-300
LH 526 Sao Paulo - Santiago de Chile 1234567 A340-600
LH 712 Seoul 1234567 A340-600
LH 740 Osaka 1234567 A340-600
LH 744 Guangzhou - Manila 1234567 A340-600
LH 402 Newark 1234567 B747-400
LH 404 New York 1234567 B747-400
LH 418 Washington 1234567 B747-400
LH 426 Philadelphia _2_4_67 B747-400
LH 430 Chicago 1234567 B747-400
LH 446 Denver 1234567 B747-400
LH 450 Los Angeles 1234567 B747-400
LH 454 San Francisco 1234567 B747-400
LH 456 Los Angeles 1234567 B747-400
LH 462 Miami 1234567 B747-400
LH 470 Toronto 1234567 B747-400
LH 492 Vancouver 1234567 B747-400
LH 498 Mexico City 1234567 B747-400
LH 502 Sao Paulo - Buenos Aires 1234567 B747-400
LH 572 Johannesburg _2_4_6_ B747-400
LH 572 Johannesburg - Kapstadt 1_3_5_7 B747-400
LH 686 Tel Aviv 1234567 B747-400
LH 710 Tokio 1234567 B747-400
LH 720 Peking 1234567 B747-400
LH 728 Shanghai 1234567 B747-400
LH 738 Hongkong 1234567 B747-400
LH 756 Bombay 1234567 B747-400
LH 758 Madras 1234567 B747-400
LH 760 Delhi 1234567 B747-400
LH 776 Singapur 1234567 B747-400
LH 778 Bangkok - Jakarta 1234567 B747-400

>> from Munich
LH 410 New York 1234567 A340-300
LH 424 Boston 1234567 A340-300
LH 428 Charlotte 1234567 A340-300
LH 434 Chicago 1234567 A340-300
LH 452 Los Angeles 1234567 A340-300
LH 470 Montreal 1234567 A340-300
LH 602 Teheran _2_4__7 A340-300
LH 714 Tokio 12_4567 A340-300
LH 722 Peking 1_3__6_ A340-300
LH 726 Shanghai 1234567 A340-300
LH 730 Hongkong _2_4_6_ A340-300
LH 762 Delhi __3_5_7 A340-300
LH 458 San Francisco 1234567 A340-600
LH 772 Bangkok - Ho Chi Minh City 1__4_6_ A340-600
LH 782 Bangkok - Kuala Lumpur _23_5_7 A340-600
 
Derico
Posts: 4206
Joined: Mon Dec 20, 1999 9:14 am

RE: LH To Discontinue EZE-FRA Nonstop!

Fri Dec 24, 2004 3:02 am

I think the reasons have been stated by Hardiwv and others. German companies have huge investments and branches in GRU (Sao Paulo), which makes business travel between the two countries high yield. On the other hand, German companies are almost nonexistant in Argentina, and the German economy is in a serious decline so companies there are in no shape to make incursions into any further markets, thus a lack of business travel to EZE.

Spanish, Italian, French, American, and Canadian companies have a much higher presence in Argentina, which is why flights to and from those countries is increasing, and not decreasing.
My internet was not shut down, the internet has shut me down
 
Marambio
Posts: 1145
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RE: LH To Discontinue EZE-FRA Nonstop!

Fri Dec 24, 2004 4:17 am

Derico:

On the other hand, German companies are almost nonexistant in Argentina

I beg your pardon? This isn't France or the US, but of course there are quite a few German companies in Argentina:

  • Siemens Argentina was founded almost a century ago, together with their subsidiary Osram

  • Ever heard of Si es Bayer es bueno? Well, Bayer is also German

  • Even though it's half-American, DaimlerChrysler has a plant at Córdoba

  • So does Volkswagen

  • Aventis Pharma is Franco-German, and it is also present in Argentina


  • Those are some I can remember now, but if you wish I can e-mail the Cámara de Industria y Comercio Argentino-Alemana and ask them for more information.

    Come on Derico, there are German companies and an important German community in Argentina.

    Spanish, Italian, French, American, and Canadian companies have a much higher presence in Argentina, which is why flights to and from those countries is increasing, and not decreasing.

    Italian, French and American I agree...but Canadian? May I ask which important company is from Canadian origin?

    Saludos,
    Marambio
    Aerolíneas Argentinas - La Argentina que levanta vuelo
     
    hardiwv
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    RE: LH To Discontinue EZE-FRA Nonstop!

    Fri Dec 24, 2004 8:09 pm

    Maybe RG will restart GRU-EZE-SCL, although I don't know if they had freedom rights in that route?

    To answer your question, RG does have traffic rights for the route GRU-EZE-SCL. So much so that last year RG had a daily scheduled flight on the route GRU-EZE-SCL-EZE-GRU. Maybe this flight is coming back so as to coordinate schedules wtih LH.

    Needless to say, I assume LH has to "pay RG something back" as they will enter the GRU-EZE and GRU-SCL market with rather big a/c. Probably LH agreed to allow RG to fly GRU-MUC without competition - as will be the case as of Feb/05.

    I don´t think LH is going to have a hard time to fill all the seats to GRU since Sao Paulo is home to more than 1000 branch offices of German companies and organizations. business traffic between GRU and FRA has always been very strong.

    Also agree with you. Besides strong business there are also strong cultural ties, since Brazil is home to the biggest German community outside Germany. In some small cities in South Brazil, German is still the predominant language.

    However, in terms of foreign direct investment, I must say that over the last few years, Germany has been outplaced by countries such as Spain, Portugal and the Netherlands.

    Another aspect which is resulting in strong traffic for LH in Brazil, is that LH is capitalising on the Brazil-Asia/Japan traffic - this is a very high yield market. With the introduction of US transit VISA restrictions, more and more Asian-Brazilians are using Europe and Canada to travel to Asia. In this context, LH and AC are the favourite airlines as RG's FF pax could earn miles!

    Rgs,
    Hardi
     
    LHSTR
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    RE: LH To Discontinue EZE-FRA Nonstop!

    Fri Dec 24, 2004 8:30 pm

    Heard someplace that the crews to EZE are at their max. working hours.
    So any delay might cause the need for a new crew

    That might have had some influence
     
    Rafabozzolla
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    RE: LH To Discontinue EZE-FRA Nonstop!

    Fri Dec 24, 2004 9:12 pm

    So, who has the edge on seats offered on the Brazil-Germany market?

    RG offers 11 MD11 flights (7 GIG-FRA, 4 GRU-MUC) plus 7 777 (GRU-FRA) and LH has 7 744 (EZE-GRU-FRA) plus 7 346 (SCL-GRU-FRA) on a shared basis. Who wins?

    On a side note:
    For obvious reasons, with the exception of some markets for Iberia and Air Europa, Brazil is the most important market for Europea airlines. But KL has 7 daily non-stop 74M flights to MEX and 6 weekly 777 flights to GRU. Why do you think is that? Maybe KLM is profiting from the poor connections offered by BA?

    And BTW, according to the latest version of SkyTeam timetable, AZ will increase its services to Brazil from 7 a week (5 MXP-GRU, 2 FCO-GRU) to 9 weekly (daily MXP-GRU, 2 FCO-GRU). Its not a competition but Alitalia will be offering more seats to Brazil than to Argentina, historically its strongest station in South America.
     
    123
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    RE: LH To Discontinue EZE-FRA Nonstop!

    Fri Dec 24, 2004 9:37 pm

    Put it in another way: I have never ease with reserving a flight from EZE or GRU to FRA. Flights are always very full in all booking classes.

    If GRU has more German companies, and lies geographically at better reach to a larger population = more pax, EZE does not stay behind because it "rakes up" all pax from Uruguay, Argentina, Chile, and also from Paraguay and Bolivia.

    Often it´s faster to fly down to EZE and take the nonstop to FRA, than to take the mile-shorter route via GRU, where connecting times are sometimes horrendous. It is better now, but you sometimes had waiting times of up to 10 hours.

    So, FRA/EZE/FRA route, nonstop, was a good option to win time because conex time in EZE was always quite good.

    And again: I never saw empty flights from GRU (or GIG) , or EZE to FRA and vice-versa.

    I even thought, the A380 would be a good candidate for a daily EZE flight, and logically also for GRU.

    Merry Christmas to all of you!

    123
     
    Sabena332
    Posts: 14938
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    RE: LH To Discontinue EZE-FRA Nonstop!

    Fri Dec 24, 2004 11:49 pm

    Heard someplace that the crews to EZE are at their max. working hours.

    Who cares?

    Signed,

    Joachim Hunold (CEO of Air Berlin)
    NZ1's mother is a disgusting crack-whore and his father is a worthless alcoholic!
     
    LH526
    Crew
    Posts: 1960
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    RE: LH To Discontinue EZE-FRA Nonstop!

    Sat Dec 25, 2004 12:20 am

    And again my username routing get's a facelift. Whenever I flew LH526 90% of all passengers deboarded in EZE ... so the flight must be well booked in winter, I still wonder why FRA still doesn't drop SCL (only 10-20% payload) I hope that never happens!! It would be a real tragedy for me to see my second home country abandoned by my favourite carrier!
    Whatever, this topic is well visited & written with excellent arguments. I concur to many of them.

    Mario
    LH526
    Trittst im Morgenrot daher, seh ich dich im Strahlenmeer ...
     
    PPVRA
    Posts: 7864
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    RE: LH To Discontinue EZE-FRA Nonstop!

    Sat Dec 25, 2004 2:25 am

    I dont want to make "terrorism", but I have a voice telling me that BA will very soon terminate its flight to EZE and GIG, leaving its service to LHR-GRU only....

    I've heard rumors that GIG was on VS wish list, could this be their opportunity? I think VS could bring more British tourists to GIG than BA for the simple fact that their marketing is much better. Maybe they could fly to EZE too?

    Happy Holidays!

    PPVRA
    "If goods do not cross borders, soldiers will" - Frederic Bastiat
     
    Marambio
    Posts: 1145
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    RE: LH To Discontinue EZE-FRA Nonstop!

    Sat Dec 25, 2004 3:24 am

    Heard someplace that the crews to EZE are at their max. working hours.

    Who cares?

    Signed,

    Joachim Hunold (CEO of Air Berlin)


    Hahahahaha!!  Smile/happy/getting dizzy  Smile/happy/getting dizzy That comment made my day!

    Merry Christmas!
    Marambio
    Aerolíneas Argentinas - La Argentina que levanta vuelo
     
    EZEIZA
    Posts: 4421
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    RE: LH To Discontinue EZE-FRA Nonstop!

    Sat Dec 25, 2004 5:42 am

    "This strange schedule will only last a month - from Saturday, February 19, 2005 until Saturday, March 26, 2005, which, in my opinion, makes things even more weird"

    Maybe for carnaval? Big grin

    feliz navidad!
    Carp aunque ganes o pierdas ...
     
    Marambio
    Posts: 1145
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    RE: LH To Discontinue EZE-FRA Nonstop!

    Sat Dec 25, 2004 7:40 am

    Hey guys,

    I just received a letter from Lufthansa's Regional Director for Argentina, Paraguay, Uruguay and Bolivia explaining the situation.

    According to him, even though they will resume services via São Paulo, the new schedule will be better for passengers since they will fly the Boeing 747-400, which is "a bigger, more comfortable plane." He also said they will "re-incorporate the First Class service, which was missed by some passengers".

    Nevertheless, he did not mention if the service is just seasonal, which makes me think it will be permanent.

    Anyway, have you all a Merry Christmas!

    Saludos,
    Marambio
    Aerolíneas Argentinas - La Argentina que levanta vuelo
     
    Derico
    Posts: 4206
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    RE: LH To Discontinue EZE-FRA Nonstop!

    Sat Dec 25, 2004 7:52 am

    Marambio,

    Compared to German investment in Brazil, there is no comparison. That's what I meant.

    Either way, it's more than obvious that economy seats may be full on EZE-FRA routes, but they are not the ones that drive the scheduling of airlines these days.

    ¡Felices Fiestas!
    My internet was not shut down, the internet has shut me down
     
    HB-IWC
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    RE: LH To Discontinue EZE-FRA Nonstop!

    Sat Dec 25, 2004 12:29 pm

    I don't really understand why most people are so positive about this move, which is clearly designed to be a cost cutting measure with negative effects for all stations involved but one...

    Rio de Janeiro is obviously hit the worst as it is dropped altogether. Passengers will have no other choice than to go for RG's inferior service or to backtrack to Sao Paulo and fly LH.

    Buenos Aires, although regaining First Class service, is losing nonstop service and thereby a lot of competitive edge over the likes of Air France and Iberia. And although some here seem to speculate on BA's imminent departure from the route, I tend to believe that BA will in the forseeable future return with a nonstop flight.

    This new South American operation is a further nail in the coffin of Santiago de Chile, which, in a next reform phase will most certainly get the axe. Load factors to SCL haven't been great, and nothing indicates that they will improve after this move. Add to that the now 4-hour-long tag-on flight GRU-SCL and it's easy to see that SCL is a goner...

    So, the only station that is really benefiting seems to be Sao Paulo, which is gaining an additional flight. If and when SCL is terminated, I would expect this additional flight to stay, possibly in a downgraded version, operated with limited frequency and a smaller aircraft.

    So, overall not a very positive development. There is no nett increase in flights nor available seats, and nonstop traffic is being cut. Just about the opposite of all the other players in the market. Air France/KLM and Iberia must be quite OK with this...