duke
Posts: 1167
Joined: Tue Sep 21, 1999 9:52 pm

Does A Pilot Have To Be Clean-cut?

Sat Dec 25, 2004 11:02 pm

The post is basically in the title - it interests me whether airline dress codes forbid long hair or male pilots or not, and whether they ever forbid beards.
 
IntruderPC
Posts: 75
Joined: Mon Sep 13, 2004 12:08 am

RE: Does A Pilot Have To Be Clean-cut?

Sat Dec 25, 2004 11:27 pm

I believe that the regs for facial hair are more lax in civil air than military, but I think all flight deck personnel have to be clean shaven so oxygen masks will fit snugly with a proper seal when in low air/oxy conditions. In the military, when I was an Intruder Plan Captain I know that the life support techs (AME in the Navy) check the pilots and their masks frequently to insure a proper seal. FAA has some regs for pilots flying in and into/outof USA but I don't know what they are.
A-6's and Navy Air forever!!!
 
andz
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RE: Does A Pilot Have To Be Clean-cut?

Sat Dec 25, 2004 11:42 pm

SAA have several pilots with beards so I guess there's no such regulation there.
After Monday and Tuesday even the calendar says WTF...
 
himmat01
Posts: 1016
Joined: Sat Dec 04, 2004 4:34 pm

RE: Does A Pilot Have To Be Clean-cut?

Sat Dec 25, 2004 11:45 pm

There are no restrictions on facial hair in India and in most Asian airlines. I know a lot of Sikh pilots in Air India. They have beards and even wear a turban instead of a normal cap.

reg.,

Himmat
An airplane might disappoint any pilot but it'll never surprise a good one.
 
2H4
Posts: 7960
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RE: Does A Pilot Have To Be Clean-cut?

Sat Dec 25, 2004 11:57 pm

Judging by the alarming popularity of bad mustaches among the US airline pilot population, one would think we're putting our lives in the hands of out-of-work porn stars every time we get on a flight.




2H4
Intentionally Left Blank
 
IntruderPC
Posts: 75
Joined: Mon Sep 13, 2004 12:08 am

RE: Does A Pilot Have To Be Clean-cut?

Sun Dec 26, 2004 12:01 am

Do any of you know what type of masks that the aircrew use if they have low level oxygen conditions? Do they ever encounter situations like that aboard ValuJet? When smoke and fire contributed to that A/C going down?
A-6's and Navy Air forever!!!
 
lnglive1011yyz
Posts: 1502
Joined: Thu Oct 23, 2003 12:23 pm

RE: Does A Pilot Have To Be Clean-cut?

Sun Dec 26, 2004 12:14 am

I'd imagine that most Airlines probably have an attire and appearance regulation.

I.E, no hair below the collar, well-groomed beard/moustache, etc.

It only exemplifies customer service. The nicer your employees look, the better chance *I* will fly on your airline.

1011yyz
Pack your bags, we're going on a sympathy trip!
 
rh703
Posts: 3
Joined: Fri Dec 24, 2004 3:17 am

RE: Does A Pilot Have To Be Clean-cut?

Sun Dec 26, 2004 12:30 am

I have read discussions about this before. The argument that I have heard is that airlines try to enforce what they want appearance wise but from a safety angle. I dont' know for sure but I have read posts that O2 masks work just fine on air forces all over the middle east were people have beards, and that the airlines use the safety angle to enforce what they think people want their pilots to look like.

Personally, I don't equate a bad or large mustache with pornography. (maybe bad taste)

I also know that a pilots appearance usually has nothing to do with his/her flying ability. How many clean cut folks have flown into mountains, etc?
 
raivavae
Posts: 81
Joined: Wed Jul 25, 2001 6:56 am

RE: Does A Pilot Have To Be Clean-cut?

Sun Dec 26, 2004 12:57 am

you do the way you want, but you must be able to place your mask with one hand in less than 5 seconds.
 
Type-Rated
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Joined: Sun Sep 19, 1999 5:18 am

RE: Does A Pilot Have To Be Clean-cut?

Sun Dec 26, 2004 1:19 am

I have a freind who just hired on with American Eagle a few months ago and he said the last half of the first day of training was going over grooming standards. How your hair should be cut, etc.
Fly North Central Airlines..The route of the Northliners!
 
sevenair
Posts: 1496
Joined: Sun Feb 04, 2001 7:18 am

RE: Does A Pilot Have To Be Clean-cut?

Sun Dec 26, 2004 1:55 am

men should have short hair-beards are awful get rid of it if you have one. ew! gross!!!!!
 
747NUT
Posts: 77
Joined: Sun Sep 05, 2004 12:24 am

RE: Does A Pilot Have To Be Clean-cut?

Sun Dec 26, 2004 2:15 am

The only wording I have seen on oxygen masks is that it goes something on the lines of "Beards/facial hair will not seal properly" I will check later when I am at work.
It's more just a warning from the mask vendor than a regulation from the airlines
If it's not broken, don't fix it !
 
Av8trxx
Posts: 632
Joined: Sun Nov 11, 2001 7:08 am

RE: Does A Pilot Have To Be Clean-cut?

Sun Dec 26, 2004 2:17 am

In the US, only a mustache. I have also heard the safety/O2 reasoning. Perhaps that is why in the grooming standards for US carriers beards are not allowed.
 
F9Animal
Posts: 3652
Joined: Thu Dec 16, 2004 7:13 am

RE: Does A Pilot Have To Be Clean-cut?

Sun Dec 26, 2004 2:34 am

Oh yeah. Would love to see Snoop Dog as captain, and Ozzie Osbourn as First Officer!!! Throw in a few nose rings, and tattoos!!

I think a professional clean cut appearance is important. It reflects the look of the airline, and certainly a non clean cut experience would make a fearful flyer more fearful!
I Am A Different Animal!!
 
jacobin777
Posts: 12262
Joined: Sat Sep 11, 2004 6:29 pm

RE: Does A Pilot Have To Be Clean-cut?

Sun Dec 26, 2004 5:04 am

i disagree, many Muslims and sihks need to wear a beard for religious reasons..and they do..it's more imortant they look well groomed and be well mannered

should they be dicrminated against because of religious reasons? I think not!
"Up the Irons!"
 
bistro1200
Posts: 312
Joined: Sat Nov 01, 2003 7:13 am

RE: Does A Pilot Have To Be Clean-cut?

Sun Dec 26, 2004 7:18 am

Should they be dicrminated [sic] against because of religious reasons? I think not!
---
It isn't for religious reasons! It is for safety reasons. The O2 mask needs a tight seal to work properly. You are talking about commercial airline pilots with hundreds of people on board. In the event of a decompression, they need to be able to don the mask in 5 seconds, one handed. A beard would prevent a tight seal, possibly leading to hypoxia and a pilot slumped over in the cockpit.

Please, let's not go looking for discrimination where none exists.
Measure to the millimeter, mark with a crayon, cut with an axe.
 
Yorkshireflyer
Posts: 15
Joined: Wed Oct 06, 2004 3:11 am

RE: Does A Pilot Have To Be Clean-cut?

Sun Dec 26, 2004 7:19 am

Concorde Pilot Adrian Thompson sported a neat beard when he piloted Alpha Golf to Man on the farewell tour last year.
 
jacobin777
Posts: 12262
Joined: Sat Sep 11, 2004 6:29 pm

RE: Does A Pilot Have To Be Clean-cut?

Sun Dec 26, 2004 8:23 am

"Please, let's not go looking for discrimination where none exists."..it was just a comment...there was no insinuation whatsoever
"Up the Irons!"
 
UA772IAD
Posts: 1269
Joined: Sat Jul 10, 2004 7:43 am

RE: Does A Pilot Have To Be Clean-cut?

Sun Dec 26, 2004 9:47 am

IntruderPC:
The Oxygen masks for pilots look like the ones on fighter jets. They cover most of the face, chin (ex. above the eyes). Essentially they look like this:
http://www.flighthelmet.com/pages/fg/fgphotos/ox-mbu14v1p_1a.jpg

Hope this helps

///Justin
 
Hirnie
Posts: 465
Joined: Mon May 10, 2004 7:13 pm

RE: Does A Pilot Have To Be Clean-cut?

Sun Dec 26, 2004 10:30 am

AFAIK the regulation at LH is that beards are allowed. They have regulations like "No hair below the collar, well-groomed beard/moustache"...that means they are allowed to wear beards, but they have to look representative.
Regarding the oxygen mask I can say that they are not affected by any kind of hair in the face. The mask is to provide oxygen to the lungs of the pilot, and it does provide enough even if there is a little undensetiy(?/my English is not that advanced). I was a first aid in the German army and got some licenses to operate oxygen machines, so I know it doesn`t have to be totally closed. The pilot only has to get enough oxygen to continue the emergency descend...
 
soaringadi
Posts: 452
Joined: Fri Apr 30, 2004 4:56 pm

RE: Does A Pilot Have To Be Clean-cut?

Sun Dec 26, 2004 12:12 pm

Usually the rule is "no/or well groomed facial hair, and any length head hair."

Most pilots seem to have a conservative clean cut and a clean shave.

But long hair and stylish facial hair have come into the picture since a couple of years ago. But this was not the case in the past decades.

l/ out...

 Smile
If it ain't Boeing, I'm not going !
 
jadedmonkeys
Posts: 58
Joined: Thu May 27, 2004 8:51 am

RE: Does A Pilot Have To Be Clean-cut?

Sun Dec 26, 2004 1:13 pm

depends on the mask. and altitude. the diluter kind of oxygen systems can be used up to around 25,000 and it allows you to breathe in some cabin air if available (usually for general aviation). above 25,000 pilots need to use the quick donning pressure dependent masks which requires a tighter seal around the face since above 25,000 if you get a rapid or explosive decompression, you won't really have any available oxygen in the cabin at that altitude. Now as far as the beard or not debate. I don't know.
 
F9Animal
Posts: 3652
Joined: Thu Dec 16, 2004 7:13 am

RE: Does A Pilot Have To Be Clean-cut?

Sun Dec 26, 2004 1:38 pm

I dont see a problem with a well trimmed beard. As long as it was professional appearing, and well maintained. I just could not imagine ZZ TOP in the cockpit!
I Am A Different Animal!!
 
fspilot747
Posts: 3455
Joined: Mon Nov 01, 1999 2:58 am

RE: Does A Pilot Have To Be Clean-cut?

Sun Dec 26, 2004 4:07 pm

Well AFAIK, at US airlines anyways, hair can't be below the collars, no lamb-chop side burns (nothing below the earlobe), and hair length is fine as long as it is presentable and not wild. Long hair would be fine slicked back. I've seen pilots with long hair slicked back before. If clean-cut means being clean and presentable, then yeah you have to be clean cut. I hate facial hair so I never miss a day of shaving, so I'm not too concerned..



FSP
 
Cessna172RG
Posts: 642
Joined: Wed Aug 30, 2000 8:31 am

RE: Does A Pilot Have To Be Clean-cut?

Sun Dec 26, 2004 4:58 pm

I saw a KLM pilot with a handlebar moustache and a trimmed beard. Looked kind of...like something from an old movie actually. I also have seen a Northwest flight attendant on several flights (the same person) who has a trimmed beard. And that was a male flight attendant. Of course you know that some of the female Northwest attendants would actually IMPROVE with beards...
Save the whales...for dinner!!!
 
unitedkatw
Posts: 54
Joined: Thu Aug 12, 2004 12:43 pm

RE: Does A Pilot Have To Be Clean-cut?

Sun Dec 26, 2004 5:52 pm

Per UPS (United Parcel Service of America) policy that all employees of UPS must be clean-shaved, with the exception of a well trimmed mustache. I would imaging that UPS Airlines have the same regulations. On a lighter note, if you were a woman pilot with facial hair, would a manager be able to tell the female that she needs to shave? Just churious, no hard meant at all. Respectifully, UnitedKATW
 
lamedianaranja
Posts: 1195
Joined: Mon Nov 08, 2004 1:21 am

RE: Does A Pilot Have To Be Clean-cut?

Sun Dec 26, 2004 10:04 pm

A female F/A I know from Martinair would get facial waxing paid by the company.
They are complete contol freaks when it comes to appearance.
I wish that all skies were orange and blue!!