ContinentalEWR
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Lufthansa's Munich Hub

Sun Dec 26, 2004 10:30 pm

How is Lufthansa's second attempt to build a successful hub in Munich working? I know they tried this before and it did not work very well and much of the long haul operation was reassigned to Frankfurt.

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kkfla737
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RE: Lufthansa's Munich Hub

Mon Dec 27, 2004 1:13 am

They are increasing frequencies to Delhi this summer but dropping service to another destination, I think it's Dubai all together from Munich. This is the 2nd or 3rd go at an alternative hub for LH and my guess is that it will not work. Frankfurt is still one of the best hubs in Europe and LH really doesn't need to shift capacity from it as of yet, IMHO.
 
Lufthansa747
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RE: Lufthansa's Munich Hub

Mon Dec 27, 2004 1:18 am

MUC has 2-class operarion to most places while FRA has also First. In Many cases, LH funnels lower classes via MUC in order to ease congestion at FRA. Both are full hubs.
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JoFMO
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RE: Lufthansa's Munich Hub

Mon Dec 27, 2004 1:19 am

As far as your can hear in the public they are doing very fine. LH is one of the few airlines who managed to handle a dual hub system. Alitalia (MXP & FCO) and BA (GTW & LHR) tried the same but failed.
The new Terminal 2 in MUC was mainly financed by LH, so I think thea have a long term view on their MUC hub and it's not a short living experiement. In FRA they are heavily investing to accomodate the A380 (new maintenance hall, new first class terminal), so they are also commited to FRA. I don't think that LH would have done so much investment if their dual hub system wouldn't be succesfull.
 
Phaeton
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RE: Lufthansa's Munich Hub

Mon Dec 27, 2004 1:20 am

I have the impression that it seems to be working relatively well. Terminal 2 here at Munich Airport was opened in June 2003 and seems to be operating smoothly. Capacity doesn't seem to be a problem yet other than in Frankfurt. Wolfgang Mayrhuber, Lufthansa's CEO, has said that he is quite satisfied with the operations at MUC.
"History will be kind to me for I intend to write it.", Winston Churchill
 
san747
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RE: Lufthansa's Munich Hub

Mon Dec 27, 2004 1:32 am

From what I've seen, MUC seems to be doing well... LH serves many international destinations... I know that's not the only thing that makes a hub work, but I've heard nothing but accolades for the new terminal.

And a question: is LGW really a BA hub? I know that they base 737s and 777s there, but that is because of the Bermuda treaty? Please feel free to correct me if I'm wrong...

Thanks,
Alex
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JoFMO
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RE: Lufthansa's Munich Hub

Mon Dec 27, 2004 1:33 am

It should also be noted, that MUC already has more European flights (not sure if passengers too, but I think so) than FRA. There are also more German domestic flights in MUC than in FRA. But in terms of intercontinental flights mUC has only one quarter of FRA's flights.
 
Lufthansa747
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RE: Lufthansa's Munich Hub

Mon Dec 27, 2004 1:37 am

JoFMO,

I guess that's the key. Many W/T/L class specials (ex-HEL at least) require connections via MUC. Thus, freeing up the longhaul capacity for FRA. IMHO makes perfect sense, although LH 772/782 with no F to Bangkok is kind of a bummer.
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globetrekker
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RE: Lufthansa's Munich Hub

Mon Dec 27, 2004 1:39 am

Question: What did LH do different with FRA and MUC than BA with LHR and LGW and AZ with FCO and MXP to make it succeed?

Thanks, GlobeTrekker
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Lufthansa747
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RE: Lufthansa's Munich Hub

Mon Dec 27, 2004 1:44 am

GlobeTrekker,

LHR/LGW=same city. Terrible hassle for pax or costs for the airline. Disaster.

AZ=AZ, nuff said.
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LH423
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RE: Lufthansa's Munich Hub

Mon Dec 27, 2004 1:45 am

The role of LGW for BA is to serve the secondary airports from London. Cities like Venice, Genoa, Ibiza, Nantes, Toulon, Vilnius, etc. True, it's a not a hub in the same style as LHR. There's less connecting and those that are connecting are more often shorthaul-to-shorthaul connections rather than shorthaul-to-longhaul (or vice versa) at LHR. Also, LGW serves many domestic cities that LHR doesn't. INV, JER, etc. Also, given the massive size of the London area, LGW can market itself to those in the southeast of London as an alternative to LHR to many major European business centres like Paris, Amsterdam, etc. BA, as much as they are an LHR-centric carrier, could not be the airline they are without LGW.

LH423

[Edited 2004-12-26 17:46:23]
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Lufthansa747
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RE: Lufthansa's Munich Hub

Mon Dec 27, 2004 1:48 am

LH423,

Good point.

But many times BA has a LHR-LGW connection from HEL to secondary destinations with no overnight accommodations/transfers.

In my opinion, BA problem is the longhaul LGW flights not served from LHR.

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globetrekker
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RE: Lufthansa's Munich Hub

Mon Dec 27, 2004 2:12 am

Thanks for the explanation guys.

Another question: Does LH serve certain routes from both cities? For instance AZ serves YYZ both from FCO and MXP. And are there any particular aircraft based only in FRA or MUC?

Thanks
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Lufthansa747
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RE: Lufthansa's Munich Hub

Mon Dec 27, 2004 2:28 am

GlobeTrekker,

Not sure but perhaps AZ for example is MXP-FCO-YYZ. I have no clue. That's just the usual thing. LH has two well working hubs. No MUC-FRA-XXX flights...
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Lufthansa747
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RE: Lufthansa's Munich Hub

Mon Dec 27, 2004 2:31 am

Further explanation - yes.

MUC may have an A346 to BKK and further (Y/C)
FRA has 744 to BKK and further to MNL (FCY)

General trend is that lower Y and D/Z is ususlly avail via MUC whili FRA may only have F/C/full Y avail.
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globetrekker
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RE: Lufthansa's Munich Hub

Mon Dec 27, 2004 2:35 am

Okay LH747,

Thanks!
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karan69
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RE: Lufthansa's Munich Hub

Mon Dec 27, 2004 3:16 am

LH have daily 744 services to DEL from FRA and as of now 3x weekly services from MUC to DEL on A343
 
mozart
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RE: Lufthansa's Munich Hub

Mon Dec 27, 2004 3:46 am

I can only judge from what LH and the German press say about MUC, and based on that I believe that MUC is doing fine and has a perspective as a hub. Also, remember that MUC is now Europe's 8th biggest airport - smaller than the likes of LHR, FRA, CDG and AMS; but bigger than some "primary hubs" like MXP, CPH or ZRH. Also, it has some interesting records: it is the one airport which has links to the highest number of European cities (not number of flights, but cities served), it has more LH European flights than FRA, aND accroding to MUC airport, no other airport serves more cities in Italy (although I hardly believe that... I believe there is no other foreign airport serving more cities in Italy):

Still, I feel that MUC is somewhat of a secondary hub for LH. True, more and more intl. destinations are being served from there, but look at the structure of the feeder traffic: hordes of RJs!!!!! I think this will only change (=be upgraded to real planes) once MUC's importance as a hub increases.

I wish them all the best, I like MUC airport a lot (going through there 1-2 times every week).
 
Horus
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RE: Lufthansa's Munich Hub

Mon Dec 27, 2004 8:36 am

I'm surprised their MUC-Middle East services haven't worked out. They used to fly MUC-CAI and MUC-TLV with A320s but these were suspended in 2002. The MUC-DXB route will be axed next summer, which will leave THR as their only Middle Eastern destination.

Horus

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N328KF
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RE: Lufthansa's Munich Hub

Mon Dec 27, 2004 8:45 am

LH serves ORD from both. Or at least, they did in 2001, when I flew into FRA and out of MUC.
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bartond
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RE: Lufthansa's Munich Hub

Mon Dec 27, 2004 9:41 am

LH serves quite a few cities in the US from both German hubs, right? JFK, MIA, ORD, LAX, SFO, BOS.
 
JoFMO
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RE: Lufthansa's Munich Hub

Mon Dec 27, 2004 9:50 am

@Horus:

Nothing to worry. Can't say about CAI, but TLV isn't served anymore because both allowed frequencies are used for FRA where they have a better feed from the USA, and that is what fills their Israel flights.
Dubai is axed every summer. Traffic to Dubai is lower in summer due to its weather, but it will come back in winter.


@all:

German forums are talking about additional daily flights to BRU, GVE, Genoa, Bologna, Trieste and Verona. So MUC is working quite well.
 
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RE: Lufthansa's Munich Hub

Mon Dec 27, 2004 9:58 am

MUC-DXB comes back in the winter, it is only a summer suspension.

I read an article in Aviation Week about LH's dual-hub system and it does seem to be doing quite well for LH.

LH has no choice but to operate a dual-hub system as FRA has reached capacity until additional runways can be constructed which will not happen for quite some time.

So the only choice for growth for LH would be to operate a 2nd hub and it seems to be doing quite well.

As others have mentioned, MUC has more domestic and more intra-Europe than FRA does, while FRA of course has much more intercontinental flights than MUC does.

Regarding AZ and MXP and FCO. It should be kept in mind that MXP is a relatively new facility.

I think AZ experimented with the dual-hub system but they probably realized that for an airline their size that it isn't practical to maintain two hubs.

MXP is a better facility than FCO and it is better geographically located for connections.

Milan is also the economic and business center of Italy.

This is why over the years, many routes and flights have been transfered from Rome to Milan. I think Alitalia will always maintain a significant number of flights from Rome as it is a large market and tourists want to get there. So it is being transformed more of an O&D destination while Milan primarily relies on connections.

I have heard Alitalia's connections to the Middle East from Milan are quite convenient and cheap.

Also unlike Lufthansa, Alitalia is not facing congestion restrictions and are able to continue to grow in Milan Malpensa, while Lufthansa is unable to do this with its Frankfurt hub.

In the case of British Airways. BA has no choice but to maintain a dual-hub system with LHR and LGW because of the Bermuda II restrictions. I have to say that it does create a nightmare for BA and its passengers.

Transfering from LHR to LGW is time consuming. I've had to do it once. Now thankfully the DEN flight goes to LHR, so I no longer have to do this.

BA has significantly reduced its European destinations and flights and transfered them to LHR. What BA is doing however is focusing LGW as an airport for lower-yielding leisure routes (GB Airways) to various destinations such as Palma de Mallorca and other low-yielding markets.

However, overall their presence in LGW has shrunken significantly. If ever the Bermuda II is modified or dropped, BA will definately want to transfer all its USA destinations in LGW to LHR and LGW will become strictly a secondary small hub for leisure destinations in Europe and will primarily cater the leisure market for people living in the UK.

Regards
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HB-IWC
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RE: Lufthansa's Munich Hub

Mon Dec 27, 2004 6:35 pm

I've often wondered what the deal is with locating service to certain intercontinental destinations uniquely at MUC. If the yield argument brought forward by Lufthansa747 is true, then what are services to cities like CAN, KUL and SGN doing at MUC rather than at FRA?

I can see the deal with CLT and YUL, which have flights, albeit operated by code share parterns, at FRA as well. But if FRA is the airline's high-yield hub, then I would expect the sole service to CAN, KUL and SGN to operate from there. I understand that CAN is being repositioned next year, and SGN is rather low-yield, but KUL? If LH is planning to give MH a run for their money in Germany, they'll have to come up with better than a one-stop flight from a secondary hub.

So, what's the deal with the intercontinental part of the hub? Lufthansa has been blowing hot and cold about it, building the hub and then taking flights back again. DXB was not suspended last summer, JNB all of a sudden disappeared from this winter's plans, which also, for the first time in many years, lack daily SFO flights. I don't see the strategy...

 
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TS-IOR
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RE: Lufthansa's Munich Hub

Mon Dec 27, 2004 7:53 pm


AF should grow a second French hub, in the south, in NCE or LYS ?!
 
beechcraft
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RE: Lufthansa's Munich Hub

Mon Dec 27, 2004 9:24 pm

hi,
just a short note:
MUCs growth in pax numbers was three percent higher than LH had expected for this year.

sounds good to me

Denis
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JoFMO
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RE: Lufthansa's Munich Hub

Mon Dec 27, 2004 11:34 pm

@HB-IWC:

The general strategy is to fly the intercontinental routes from FRA and saisonal adjustments are made in MUC. So you see new routes coming and going in FRA. AF introduces three additional frequencies from CDG while LH usually opens three new flights from MUC. Therefore it might sometimes look as if they don't have any strategy in MUC.
Some routes like CLT and YUL are only flown from MUC because a star alliance partner already serves FRA.
CAN was flown from MUC because the plane was standing in PVG for 10 hours anyway. KUL and SGN are served from MUC because LH was flying two widebodys from FRA to BKK in one hour and onward from BKK to KUL,SGN,MNL. So it is logical to move one flight from FRA to MUC and operate BKK like a mini hub. Next summer the BKK-MNL leg will be replaced with BKK-CGK. MNL will become an extension of an seperate FRA-CAN flight. Therefore it is also logical that MUC looses it's CAN flight to FRA.
JNB was going because LH wanted to introduce a seperate flight to CPT.
 
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RayChuang
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RE: Lufthansa's Munich Hub

Tue Dec 28, 2004 12:57 am

I think MUC is working well for Lufthansa because there is actually quite a lot of business travel in and out of that airport. You have to remember that BMW's headquarters are in Munich, and within a relatively short drive/train ride from Munich are the headquarters for VAG's Audi division and DaimlerChrysler. Also, I believe that EADS has a major operation in the Munich area, too.

Also, tourist traffic in and out of MUC should be quite good, since Munich is one of the most-visited cities in Germany for tourism year-round.
 
airbazar
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RE: Lufthansa's Munich Hub

Tue Dec 28, 2004 1:30 am

I had my first experience at transiting through LH's hub at MUC this year and I have to say, it is by far one the best, most convenient hubs I have ever traveled through, including Changi. The airport is compact yet spacious enough and one can never say enough good things about German efficiency even when submitted to the ridiculous American-imposed security circus.
I had only one complaint: not a single water fountain to be found after passport control.
 
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chrisnh
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RE: Lufthansa's Munich Hub

Tue Dec 28, 2004 1:47 am

Is service to Boston still available? As I recall LH used a A340 on the route, but that it was 'seasonal.' Is that still the case for resumption in summer '05? I think LH, at its peak, serves Boston with 2x to FRA and the 1x to MUC (which I don't believe is daily, unlike the FRA service which is).

Chris in NH
 
JoFMO
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RE: Lufthansa's Munich Hub

Tue Dec 28, 2004 2:01 am

Daimler is in Stuttgart and therefore more orientated to FRA. But the most important company in Munich might be Siemens. And beside that a lot of small businesses form biotech to high tech. Tourism is also bigin Munich, but far behind Berlin. And as you can see there, that isn't an important factor to gain any long haul traffic alone.

BOS is very seasonal. 2x FRA and 1x MUC in summer, only 1x FRA in winter. All flights are daily.
 
airbazar
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RE: Lufthansa's Munich Hub

Tue Dec 28, 2004 2:02 am

LH serves BOS from MUC in Spring, Summer and Fall forcing me to go through FRA for my annual Christmas trip to Europe  Sad
 
Econojetter
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RE: Lufthansa's Munich Hub

Tue Dec 28, 2004 5:42 am

The general impression I have is that LH uses MUC as an overflow hub to ease congestion at FRA; that is in addition to MUC own O&D potential. I wonder if FRA slot distribution follows a use-it-or-lose-it rule. If it does, then perhaps LH places top priority on making use of available FRA slots. Having recently transited through both MUC and FRA, I as a passenger feel it is a pity that MUC is not currently getting more action. Nevertheless, I believe that with sustained growth in traffic (and as the LH fleet grows), the MUC capacity will be put to good use to compete against CDG and AMS.

I see that there is some discussion re. LH Asian routes. I have some questions of my own. It is a little puzzling to see that SIN (a Star hub) does not get a lot from LH. There is a dedicated LH 744 service from FRA (besides SQ flights), but did it not have MUC service at one point? I would have thought that SIN would have some O&D potential for MUC.

On KUL¡­ I am not sure that KUL clearly has a strong case for nonstop service; nevertheless I would like to discuss more with HB-IWC or whoever that may have insight on this destination. MH has enjoyed monopoly on KUL-FRA nonstop for a few years now, but that is true for most of its European destinations. For example, BA does not compete from LHR, AF does not compete from CDG. I have not read anywhere on this forum on how well the FRA route performs or if it is high/low yield. MH does designate FRA as one of its European gateways (at least for Scandinavia), which may mean that a significant number of MH pax connect at FRA as well, plus I wonder about the percentage of KUL-originating pax. For now, as JoFMO has explained, KUL pax have a choice of FRA or MUC on LH through BKK, albeit only 4x a week, a move that requires little investment as e.g. crew can be based at BKK (the crew does not overnight in KUL, do they?). Also, I wonder if a one-stop vs nonstop is that large an issue in this case due to the proximity of BKK and SIN. Is the traffic at KUL now strong enough to justify bypassing BKK or SIN?
 
mozart
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RE: Lufthansa's Munich Hub

Tue Dec 28, 2004 5:53 am

Munich has the world's highest "market cap per capita" if that measure makes any sense.

But what is behind it is the fact that many large companies have their headquearters in Munich, not only the already mentioned BMW and Siemens. Also Allianz (EUrope's number 1 or 2 insurance company), Munich Re (world's biggest re-insurance company), HVB Bank (Germany's second biggest bank and one of Europe's largest), Infineon (one of the world's leading chip producers), there's half the HQ of e.on (#1 or #2 German utility with substantial foreign activities). Moreover, Munich is huge in media (movie industry, publishing houses), and it is home to one particular bunch of profession that must be among Germany's most intensive travelers: management consultants. Many of them live in Munich and have their home office there because Munich is the best place to live in Germany - but their clients are all over Germany (the country is not as concentrated as France or the UK), and so they fly in and out all the time. Plus you have all the tourists. You can argue whether Berlin or Munich is bigger on tourism (I think Berlin is bigger with domestic tourists, Munich with foreigners).

The point I want to make with all of this is that Munich has quite an O&D market in its own right, plus many many feeder flights, that makes quite a hub.
 
Tobi3334
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RE: Lufthansa's Munich Hub

Tue Dec 28, 2004 6:22 am

Hi

I think in the long term future FRA will have one big problem:

The increasing passenger traffic and the growing of the airport. Many many towns and cities in an 30km ambit protesting against the airport and its future plans (new runway, new buildings). There are also many towns who started proceeding against FRA-airport.

I think FRA changed the approach way a few times to prevent harassment of the people living here. But the public pressure is still there.

I don't know how it will be in the future but I can imagine that this is one important topic for LH to build up a second hub. "Goodbye FRA, hello MUC"?

Greetings
Tobi
 
JoFMO
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RE: Lufthansa's Munich Hub

Tue Dec 28, 2004 8:02 am

@Mozart:

You must have been living in Munich. But Munich is in no way the best place to live in Germany. That is (no offence!!) BullSh!t  Smile/happy/getting dizzy Only Munichsiders can say that  Wink/being sarcastic
Munich is still slightly ahead in terms of foreign tourists (1.3 Million guests in 2003 vs 1.4), but Berlin was growing 4.2% and Munich only 0.8%.


@all:

There is one big problem for MUC, it has a too low population base compared with FRA. MUC is in Bavaria which is one of the most rural parts in the former western Germany. There is nothing else of more than 250.000 inhabitants around MUC. Nuremberg is the next bigger area with 1 Million and its over 150km away. Stuttgart is even further away and also more orientated to FRA.

On the other hand FRA is (in contrast to MUC) well connected to the German high speed rail sytem and has a population base nearly three times higher than MUC in a 200km circle around it.

So FRA will always have a higher O&D base than MUC. But like it was earlier told, its growth is limited due to its resticted infrastructure. But this will change in the near future. If everything runs smooth with the planned forth runway and a third terminal, FRA has room/is planed for more than 30million additional passengers.

 
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PA110
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RE: Lufthansa's Munich Hub

Tue Dec 28, 2004 8:43 am

Having flown back and forth via both FRA and MUC as a transit passenger, I would whole heartedly encourage LH to continue building up the MUC hub. There is absolutely no comparison in ease of use for the transit passenger. MUC is the epitomy of German efficiency, while FRA is an anachronism left over from the days prior to the common EU-border controls. It makes connecting between longhaul and inter-European at FRA a long and tiresome ordeal. Quite the opposite at MUC. Although a little spartan, MUC is about as efficient as an airport can get.
It's been swell, but the swelling has gone down.
 
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RayChuang
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RE: Lufthansa's Munich Hub

Tue Dec 28, 2004 1:20 pm

I think MUC also works to another advantage for LH: it is close enough by high-speed rail to many German winter resorts, and not much further is Switzerland itself.

Besides the fact that Munich has many major German companies based there, the city also has a lot of history for tourists, too. (Not to mention all those famous breweries.  Big grin )

Of course, LH will consider FRA its primary hub given that its corporate headquarters is located in Frankfurt-am-Main.  Smile
 
JoFMO
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RE: Lufthansa's Munich Hub

Tue Dec 28, 2004 1:42 pm

@RayChuang:

German Railways are not very useful for travellers to MUC. It is in fact one of the big disadvantages when using MUC compared with FRA. MUC is only served by a commuter railway, which needs 40 minutes alone to the central station, where lines to the rest of Germany and to various ski resorts descend. If you want to ski in Switzerland, take a rental car or count with 5 hours in a train. And I don't think that a lot of foreigners go to skiing to Germany. One hour more and you are in Austria, which is much better for skiing.
 
fraT
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RE: Lufthansa's Munich Hub

Tue Dec 28, 2004 9:31 pm

PA110,

why is FRA an ordeal for transiting?

Sure, the new Star Alliance Terminal in MUC is hard to beat but this terminal is less than two years old.
If you are transiting in FRA between Star carriers, then it's also pretty easy and quick. If you have to transfer from Terminal 1 to Terminal 2 or vice versa of course it takes a bit longer but that's the same between MUC's two terminals.
MUC has an advantage in terms of transiting but again, we are comparing a 10 year old airport with one which exist for decades. As soon as FRA can start building it's fourth runway and another terminal, there won't be any discussion of which is LH's dominant hub. And as it looks right now, the new runway will be build within the next 3 years. There might be protests but in the end the politicians will decide in favor of the airport. FRAPORT, the airport company is very efficient compared with other German airport companies (Berlin).
 
HB-IWC
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RE: Lufthansa's Munich Hub

Tue Dec 28, 2004 9:37 pm

I see that there is some discussion re. LH Asian routes. I have some questions of my own. It is a little puzzling to see that SIN (a Star hub) does not get a lot from LH. There is a dedicated LH 744 service from FRA (besides SQ flights), but did it not have MUC service at one point? I would have thought that SIN would have some O&D potential for MUC.

For a starter, Lufthansa is not yet operating a dedicated SIN service from FRA, as the flight is shared with CGK. Come March that will be changed and LH will operate a daily terminator service into SIN.

At a certain point in the late 90s, LH opened 3 extra SIN frequencies from FRA with A343, and consecutively repositioned these flights to the then-new MUC hub. However, the flights have been axed, and, just like the MUC-GRU operations, have not -yet- returned. It is interesting to note, that at the time of the 10 weekly frequencies, LH only routed 4 flights on to CGK as on the other days CGK was served through KUL.

So, it seems as if SIN has been somewhat underserved by LH in the past couple of years, but the airline might be planning to do something about it soon. In all likelyhood, LH's relative weakness of SIN when compared to BKK, has to do with the relative strength of SQ in the German market. SQ is currently operating 2 daily B744s between FRA and SIN.

 
Econojetter
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RE: Lufthansa's Munich Hub

Wed Dec 29, 2004 11:18 am

Perhaps, after this capacity increase on FRA-SIN in March, the next increase in SIN service will be the resumption of MUC-SIN.
 
airbazar
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RE: Lufthansa's Munich Hub

Thu Dec 30, 2004 4:33 am

JoFMO

I've never lived anywhere in Germany but if/when I do it will certainly be Munich. Best city in Germany is a relative term but for a non-German like me it certainly has a lot going for it. I don't think there is another city in Germany that is more cuturaly diverse than Munich. Also it's in the South which pretty much beats the miserable weather you get anywhere else in Germany and it's right in the center of Europe with easy access to the beaches in the Adriatic/Mediterranean seas and the Austrian and Swiss Alps for Skiing. It doesn't get much better as far as Germany goes.

In regards to the airport itself, yes it sucks that there is no direct high speed rail link to other cities which is really odd. But as a hub LH runs a fantastic operation there. Also as someone said, the O&D traffic is there. Maybe the city of Munich in itself is not very large but as someone else pointed out, there is a very high percentage of people who will travel and travel frequently and pay premium prices, and that's really all the matters.
 
JoFMO
Posts: 1840
Joined: Wed Jul 14, 2004 1:55 am

RE: Lufthansa's Munich Hub

Thu Dec 30, 2004 7:41 am

@Airbazar:

But like you told you never lived there. So it comes down to nothing more than positive stereotypes. I don't know what you exactly call 'cultural diverse', but if you are looking for culturtal diversity, Cologne and Berlin are the places to be in Germany. Munich was 'hip' in the 80th, but 'hipness' went on to Berlin.
 
musapapaya
Posts: 990
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RE: Lufthansa's Munich Hub

Thu Dec 30, 2004 10:28 am

hello!

dont argue about cutural diversity or whatever.... just want to say, MUC is such a good airport that it is easy and fast when you want to connect over there. its architecture is nice and it gives a very good environment there - i think LH is doing fine there and if i have to choose over MUC and FRA, i will choose MUC anytime (except when i have the chance to take F which has a good lounge at FRA)

have a good year 2005
Lufthansa Group of Airlines
 
munich
Posts: 144
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RE: Lufthansa's Munich Hub

Thu Dec 30, 2004 9:29 pm

JoFMO

it seems to me, you also never lived in Munich and especially I can't see, that the hipness leave Munich. Berlin tries to copy the munich-hip from the late 70th and 80th, but it does'nt work. Berlin lacks the economic success for the same quality of life like Munich.

Now let us talk about munich airport.

There is no other airport in Europe in the size of MUC with such growth rate. MUC will reach this year nearby 27,000,000 commercial passengers, +11% in comparison with last year. Commercial aircraft movement wiil reach round about 370,000 (+8%) or round about 380,000 at all. MUC will be in ACI-worldwide-ranking on place 33 by passengers and 28 by movements.

Growth rate since 1991 to 2003 in MUC is 124%, FRA 73%, DUS 26%, TXL 65%, HAM 47 %, STR 79 %. All figures at MUC-airport are above-average and this also during the breakdown in 2001 (9-11) and 2003 (war and SARS).

In spite of the lack of highspeed trains the O&D traffic growth last years and the connection between main station and airport will get better next years, either by highspeed train "Transrapid" or by S-Bahn without stops from main station and airport.

I can't see any problem for MUC.
Regards! Robert alias munich
 
JoFMO
Posts: 1840
Joined: Wed Jul 14, 2004 1:55 am

RE: Lufthansa's Munich Hub

Fri Dec 31, 2004 12:53 am

@Munich:

I de facto lived there some years ago. I commuted to Munich for week-ends. But it helps to observe the development of German cities from the 'German Pampa'. And Munich definitely lost media attention compared with the 80th as Munich was considered as the 'secret capital'. But Munichs economic figueres are still impressive; they seem to have recovered quite well since the bankruptcy of Germanys biggest Media group which was based in Munich.

The success of it's airport is also overwhelming due to three factors. 1) lack of capacity in FRA for LH to built up it's main hub; 2) concentration in European aviation (SN/BRU's and SX/ZRH's demise combined with AZ inability to built-up MXP) made LH an even stronger carrier; 3) a solid high yielding customer base in Munich.

I too don't see any problem for MUC. It already reached a critical mass, so that they now don't even have to fear the new capacities in FRA and BBI.
 
airbazar
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RE: Lufthansa's Munich Hub

Fri Dec 31, 2004 1:27 am

JoFMO

I never lived there but I visit every year and have friends who live there so I do know a thing or two about the city. It's not just stereotypes. Cologne and Berlin certainly have good things going for them but geographicaly they are not my cup of tea.
 
JoFMO
Posts: 1840
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RE: Lufthansa's Munich Hub

Fri Dec 31, 2004 1:47 am

@Airbazar:

But if you talk about geographical preferences it's just your own opinion.

Maybe you should also ask some friends in Cologne, Berlin, Hamburg if you have any. They might tell you something quite different.
 
flyinTLow
Posts: 455
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RE: Lufthansa's Munich Hub

Fri Dec 31, 2004 2:12 am

Just a different thought here, which has less to do with the hub system but rather why LH probably sees FRA as their main airport:

Frankfurt is the German as well as the European financial center, and many many huge companies have their subsidaries in Frankfurt. Munich has a lot of hi-tech industry and is growing a whole lot, but is still not as important in the business world as Frankfurt is. That's probably why there is a higher demand for FRA, and which probably explains why LH fly bigger a/c into FRA, aside from the capacity problems of FRA.

Just my quick thought on that.
- When dreams take flight, follow them -