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clickhappy
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Do Many Carriers Fly Africa - South America

Mon Dec 27, 2004 3:41 pm

Now and then while screening photos I see some interesting things, like African carriers (TAGG Angola as an example) with smaller jets such as 737-200's in Brazil. Do they fly direct from Africa? How far is it? Are they normal flights? Who else flys them?

Thanks!
 
The777Man
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RE: Do Many Carriers Fly Africa - South America

Mon Dec 27, 2004 3:48 pm

Not many carriers fly between Africa and South America; TAAG Angola (DT) like you mentioned, flies once a week LAD-GIG, South African Airways (SA) fliew a few times a week JNB-GRU and Malaysia Airlines (MH) flies CPT-EZE three days a week.

Varig Brasil (RG) flew an intersting route until a few years ago; GRU-JNB-BKK-HKG with MD-11. They re-started GRU-JNB about three-six months ago but has since again discontinued the route again.

Not sure why there was a TAAG 737 in Brazil since they usually fly a 74D there.

The777Man
Boeing 777s flown: UA, TG, KE, BA, CX, NH, JD, JL, CZ, SQ, EK, NG, CO, AF, SV, KU, DL, AA, MH, OZ, CA, MS, SU, LY, RG, PE, AZ, KL, VN, PK, EY, NZ, AM, BR, AC, DT, UU, OS, AI, 9W, KQ, QR, VA, JJ, ET, TK, PR, BG, T5, CI, MU and LX.. Further to fly.. LH 777
 
PRGLY
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RE: Do Many Carriers Fly Africa - South America

Mon Dec 27, 2004 4:40 pm

TACV is operating SID-FOR weekly using 763 too, and if I remember well RAM was flying to RIO as well years ago.
just fly - it is nice
 
EurostarVA
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RE: Do Many Carriers Fly Africa - South America

Mon Dec 27, 2004 5:27 pm

VARIG maintained a weekly service from Rio de Janeiro to Lagos, Nigeria, and the service lasted at least two decades until it was suspended in the late 1990's. Bellview Airlines of Nigeria launched a Lagos-Rio flight, once weekly with the A300 but this was also terminated in 2000 if I recall correctly.

I think the Brazil-Nigeria market is there and VARIGs suspension was during a financial turmoil at the airline when it needed cash, and Bellviews suspension was also attributed to a 1-aircraft operation which complicated matters in case of scheduled and unscheduled maintenance, crew layovers, etc.

Bellview has since then added 2 Boeing 767-200ERs and I wont be surprised to see a resumption of service.

Note that MEA operated a Beirut-Abidjan-Sao Paulo service for a few years before it stopped when they withdrew their 747-200s.

Sosoliso Airlines of Nigeria has gotten approval and is planning a weekly scheduled Lagos-Banjul-Barbados-Trinidad flight. They expect to start in January but who knows.....
If there is a will, there is a way
 
AF022
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RE: Do Many Carriers Fly Africa - South America

Mon Dec 27, 2004 11:17 pm

according to OAG, nonstops from Africa to South America are:

twice weekly CPTEZE on Malaysian
daily JNBGRU on South African
once weekly LADGIG on TAAG
once weekly SIDFOR on TACV

TACV's flight is almost entirely designed for LISFOR connections
 
s.p.a.s.
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RE: Do Many Carriers Fly Africa - South America

Tue Dec 28, 2004 12:42 am

TAAG 737s in Brazil...

VEM - Varig Engenharia e Manutenção (sort of Varig Technik) has a long standing contract to overhaul TAAGs 737s and this is normally made at their Porto Alegre (POA) facilities.

Most of the flights arrive/depart Brazil via Recife and from there make the SA crossing, probably REC-ABJ and then down the west African coast.

Cheers

Renato

[Edited 2004-12-27 16:45:39]
"ad astra per aspera"
 
Southamerica
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RE: Do Many Carriers Fly Africa - South America

Tue Dec 28, 2004 1:27 am


As mentioned, the most representative Africa-South America flights are the ones operated by South African Airways [which in contrast to Varig's decision to drop JNB was upgraded to larger equipment] and Malaysia Airlines whose service begins in KUL and is a two-stop operation all the way to EZE.

These flights, as a side note, are particularly the ones who allow the above mentioned airlines to calssify in the select group of carriers which fly to all continents.

As for future routes, both Emirates and MEA have strongly considered starting flights to Brazil from their own hubs. These services would be likely to operat through another African city of the likes of Lagos or Dakar.




SOUTHAMERICA
 
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clickhappy
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RE: Do Many Carriers Fly Africa - South America

Tue Dec 28, 2004 4:15 am

Thanks for all the replys! The pics I refer to are indeed from Recife, lots of interesting stuff goes thru there, TransAfrika 727's! So tasty.
 
Marambio
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RE: Do Many Carriers Fly Africa - South America

Tue Dec 28, 2004 8:18 am

As for future routes, both Emirates and MEA have strongly considered starting flights to Brazil from their own hubs. These services would be likely to operat through another African city of the likes of Lagos or Dakar.

MEA: Although Lebanese Presidente Émile Lahoud and his Brazilian counterpart Lula da Silva were interested in starting a link between Lebanon and Brazil, MEA finally decided not to start the route because of very poor loads and the high amount of aicraft they would need to fly it. Add to this the fact that the A330 cannot fly BEY-GRU non-stop, therefore they should have leased or bought a new, more expensive type of aircraft.

Emirates: A big mistery. EK was granted 14 weekly slots to Brazil, plus 5 weekly slots to Argentina. There were some rumours about starting DXB-GRU with the A345 by September 2004, which of course didn't materialize (you know, we are almost in January 2005). So far, the most intense rumours are the start of a DXB-GRU and a DXB-GIG-EZE. Nevertheless, no official comment has been made by Emirates.

Saludos,
Marambio
Aerolíneas Argentinas - La Argentina que levanta vuelo
 
Southamerica
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RE: Do Many Carriers Fly Africa - South America

Tue Dec 28, 2004 10:00 am

Add to this the fact that the A330 cannot fly BEY-GRU non-stop, therefore they should have leased or bought a new, more expensive type of aircraft.

Not necessarily Marcos; and this is where the stop in northwestern Africa [on which the point of my previous reply relies] sees true importance. Apart from feeding passengers to the route [high-yielding ones baring in mind the type of markets typically found in said region - Lagos for instance] it would allow the airline to operate with the medium-capacity equipment available [namely A332 in ME's case] thus maximizing yields; and keeping direct links between South America in Middle East at that.

In any case, not cool to hear that these plans seem to be going down the drain...



SOUTHAMERICA
 
Rafabozzolla
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RE: Do Many Carriers Fly Africa - South America

Tue Dec 28, 2004 10:04 am

Dear AF022

TACV flights are NOT aimed at transit pax going to LIS (TP flies the route daily with onward connections to major European destinations), but instead the operation has been a HUGE success with retailers from Cabo Verde. They pay for the ticket, buy loads cheap of manufactured goods in Fortaleza (Cabo Verde's currency is attached to the Euro so it is very valued against the Real) and make a huge profit selling in their home country. There was even a full story on Brazil's most important weekly newsmagazine, Veja.
 
Arcano
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RE: Do Many Carriers Fly Africa - South America

Tue Dec 28, 2004 11:51 am

Nice topic!

The photographer asks what is this a/c doing in Brazil:


View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Paulo Herren - Jumpseat Team



The answer: she was on her way to CHILE...

After Avant (OT) airlines closed in 2000, the maintenance facilities remained, and now Avant is an aviation maintenance company for 737s and 727s.

I know it sounds weird, but Chanchangi Airlines from Nigeria was on their costumer list, so although it's not a regular service, I just thought it was funny to take the change of clear things about this 727 in Brazil...

Regards )( Arcano
in order: 721,146,732,763,722,343,733,320,772,319,752,321,88,83,744,332,100,738, 333, 318, 77W, 78, 773, 380, 73G, 788, 789, 346
 
AF022
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RE: Do Many Carriers Fly Africa - South America

Tue Dec 28, 2004 11:27 pm

Caro Rafabozzolla

I was in Sal a couple of years ago, and the SIDFOR flight was almost exclusively transit for passengers from LIS. Even if TP operates a daily nonstop LISFOR, VR is able to offer a second connection on the weekend.

Perhaps the situation has changed, but if the SIDFOR flight did not connect with LISSID, I doubt it would sell an entire B763.
 
Rafabozzolla
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RE: Do Many Carriers Fly Africa - South America

Wed Dec 29, 2004 1:16 am

AF022,

That might have been the case some years ago but please believe me.

The plane change was due to cargo (or better saying to excess luggage, yes luggage).

It is a real phenomenon, and I repeat, goods in Brazil a currently extremely cheap due to the pairing of Cabo Verde's currency to the Euro.

[Edited 2004-12-28 17:18:09]
 
soups
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RE: Do Many Carriers Fly Africa - South America

Wed Dec 29, 2004 3:03 am

Iraqi airlines use to fly to south america via CMN. Varig use to serve ACC, ABJ, LOS ans a couple more west african destinations.
Next destinations, Suarabaya, beirut, paris, Accra
 
odafz
Posts: 269
Joined: Thu Jul 15, 2004 8:00 pm

RE: Do Many Carriers Fly Africa - South America

Wed Dec 29, 2004 10:18 pm

In 1998, AR served also CPT and JNB from EZE
Royal Air Maroc used to served Brazil and Argentina from Casablanca.
 
Frostbite
Posts: 214
Joined: Sat Feb 17, 2001 4:31 am

RE: Do Many Carriers Fly Africa - South America

Wed Dec 29, 2004 10:40 pm

RG once had a rather well-developed (though obviously unsustainable in this day and age) African network; I have some RG timetables from the early/mid-1980s which show regular frequencies to Luanda, Angola (LAD) and Maputo, Mozambique (MPT?) on B707s (in addition to those destinations Soups mentioned). There may have been others but LAD & MPT stand out in my mind, I might have to dig through my old timetable collection.

Correct me if I'm wrong but these two African nations share a Portuguese colonial history (Brazil also of course).
 
Southamerica
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Joined: Tue Dec 02, 2003 2:56 am

RE: Do Many Carriers Fly Africa - South America

Wed Dec 29, 2004 11:41 pm

Correct me if I'm wrong but these two African nations share a Portuguese colonial history


Correct Gerald, hence, for example, TAP's several weekly services to Maputo from Lisbon.



View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © António José Avelar






SOUTHAMERICA
 
hardiwv
Posts: 4341
Joined: Sat Oct 09, 2004 11:30 pm

RE: Do Many Carriers Fly Africa - South America

Thu Dec 30, 2004 3:38 am

Interesting topic. Just to add some more facts:

JNB-GRU (daily) is one of SA most profitable routes (2004). It's almost always packed on business class. GRU was also SA launching destination for its new business class. The route is operated codeshare with RG.

As Rafabozzolla mentioned, VR SID-FOR flights are mainly cargo, but also many pax in transit to LIS. This because VR flight is much cheaper than TP daily service FOR-LIS. I even know pax that use VR flight to transit to AMS! (FOR-SID-AMS!). VR operates 2 x week SID-AMS, since there is a huge Cape Verde community in Rotterdam.

SID is also the stop-over airport used by Embraer on route for the delivery of its a/c to European customers. For example, Embraer's LOT a/c were all seen refueling in SID a couple of weeks ago. Of course, SID was selected by Embraer because, besides its strategic location betweeen Africa and Brazil, Portuguese is the local language. Time flight FOR to SID is less than 4 hours!

TAAG, as stated, still flies 1 x week LAD-GIG with the 747. RG operated to LAD until some years ago; but with the civil war in Angola, and the fact that some of RG crew were killed in an incident in Luanda, RG decided to cease operating this flight.

MEA and TAM completed a partnership agreement (as of Sep/04) in wich TAM operates GRU-CDG and MEA CDG-BEY with immediate connection and the issue of only one ticket. MEA operated BEY-ABJ-GRU for a while and dropped the service due to poor loads.

EK is studying flighst to GRU nonstop(!). There is specualtion of a possible partnership EK-JJ...EK VP has been seen at JJ HQ in Sao Paulo.

Rgs,

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