NWArocks
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NWAC-US Fleet Commonality

Sun Jan 02, 2005 1:18 am

Long time reader; first time poster...

Without getting mired in the personal tragedies that may result, I am interested in what may become of US Airways' fleet in the event that US Airways either liquidates or drastically downsizes as a result of its current difficulties. Specifically, I would like to read others thoughts, opinions, and speculations on how the US Airways fleet (or parts thereof) might meld with NWAs. For example, the A330-300s and either the 757-200s or A321s.
 
ANCFlyer
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RE: NWAC-US Fleet Commonality

Sun Jan 02, 2005 1:25 am

Not sure if NW would want another type (A321s), but possibilities exist they could grab some of the A330s . . . I don't recall if US has them owned or leased.

I don't think NW needs anymore 752s. Would like to see them pick up some 753s . . . perhaps ATAs. If CO doesn't grab them first (I hope, I hope).

I haven't even thought about this from a power plant, cabin interior, etc stand point . . .

[Edited 2005-01-01 17:40:45]

Edited for spelling -

[Edited 2005-01-01 17:41:19]
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STT757
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RE: NWAC-US Fleet Commonality

Sun Jan 02, 2005 1:43 am

"perhaps ATAs. If CO doesn't grab them first (I hope, I hope)."

CO already has announced they are aquiring 8 of ATA's 12 757-300s via Boeing, they have commonality with CO's 757-300s both of which use the RR engines.

NWA is the only operator of the PW powered 757-300s.

As for NWA aquiring US Airway's A330s only if NWA were to take over US Airway's PHL operation after a shut down, otherwise there's no need for them right now. If there was a need for more aircraft right now NWA would not be sitting around waiting for US Airways to go belly up to aquire new aircraft, they would just go ahead and lease more right now.
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FlyGuyClt
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RE: NWAC-US Fleet Commonality

Sun Jan 02, 2005 2:08 am

NWA does need the A330's. They could speed up the replacement of some of the DC10's and add new routes. The excuse at NWA on why some new services have not started to destinations like : MAD, is the fact of not enough A330's yet.

Taking over the PHL hub with Soutwest there. I'll bet NWA won't touch that with a 10 foot pole.

NWA will not over pay for anything. There for would not just got out and lease something. They have always had a conservative approach. (Thank God ! )

USAirways fleet of 757's are RR and therefore NWA most likely has no interest.

The Airbus fleets of NWA and US both have the CFM engines. The A321 is the same flight deck as the 319/320. So who knows what they are thinking in MSP.

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isitsafenow
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RE: NWAC-US Fleet Commonality

Sun Jan 02, 2005 2:17 am

I would wager the bank that MSP isn't thinking anything regarding USAirways except plugging in a route or two. If they were serious about USAIRways, they would have offered to buy the assets months ago and USAirways board, lending institutions and bankruptcy courts would have welcomed NW or anyone.
The fleets work but that by no means would make one think that NW is gonna "take them over" when the shutdown takes place.
NW, like the other carriers is poised for routes and gates when IT happens.
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gigneil
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RE: NWAC-US Fleet Commonality

Sun Jan 02, 2005 2:24 am

The 320 series do both have CFM56s, but NW's are -5A while US's are -5Bs.

Not that that would stop them from acquiring them.

N
 
NWArocks
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RE: NWAC-US Fleet Commonality

Sun Jan 02, 2005 2:49 am

Okay, I agree that NWA, or any carrier for that matter, would be ill-advised (understatement) to acquire US Airways, but when the "fire sale" occurs, I'm truly curious if NWA's management might not be waiting to move in a manner other than incremental. Certainly, they could add a route or two, but how about seizing an opportunity? I had heard rumors that NWA had it's corporate eye on US Airways PHL operation a couple of years ago. NWA pilot's new contract allows for additional RJ flying (given certain conditions and restrictions). If US Airways goes "Tango Uniform", I am curious about the prospect that NWA would move into PHL quickly. With US Airways' A330s they could continue U's transatlantic ops out of PHL, grab select A320/319s for (mini) hub and spoke operations out of PHL, and perhaps add a third RJ operator out east to provide service and feed to the PHL-Europe runs. Thoughts?
 
Mikey711MN
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RE: NWAC-US Fleet Commonality

Sun Jan 02, 2005 3:04 am

Welcome to the forums, NWArocks! Personally, I have thought along similar lines to you that NW has some sort of an eye on PHL...not another hub necessarily, but some sort of focus city with significant operations overseas and to their heartland markets. If that takes acquiring some assets from US, then so be it.

I agree with safe that none of this will happen while US exists in its current form: there would have to be some sort of shutdown or some event that would reduce the value of assets to their absolute lowest value. But given that might occur, I think the 330's will be very closely looked at.

-Mike
I plan on living forever. So far, so good...
 
luv2fly
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RE: NWAC-US Fleet Commonality

Sun Jan 02, 2005 3:09 am

I hate to say it, though IMHO if US does go out, PHL will be a lot like BOS. A slew of service offered by a slew of carriers.
You can cut the irony with a knife
 
PSU.DTW.SCE
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RE: NWAC-US Fleet Commonality

Sun Jan 02, 2005 3:14 am

NW really doesn't want anything from US, other than one of their regional carriers in the event of their failure.

NW will snatch up one of the contract carriers which will basically be begging for a new partner. NW will exercise the clause in the pilot's contract allowing for the 3rd Airlink of up to 40 RJ's, and NW will selectively add viable routes to their network.

They aren't going to go out and buy any of US planes and attempt to integrate them into their fleet. So many costs and issues associated with that, when signing up a new regional provider for hire is easy. Obviously US's business model isn't working, why in the world would NW want to go any buy a boatload of narrowbodies and attempt to make a profit by flying Airbuses on short hops on the East Coast out of PHL. No way.....

All you will see is more RJ flying focus city stuff flown by the likes of a Mesa or CHQ who will, all of the sudden, have a ton of idle RJ's if US shuts down.
 
Cubsrule
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RE: NWAC-US Fleet Commonality

Sun Jan 02, 2005 3:19 am

With the 757 line closed, it seems like NW is going to have to acquire some 321s at some point if they want growth in the 180-200 seat area since there are not a whole lot of young secondhand 757s out there (the presumable desire to acquire PW-engined 757s if some are purchased reduces the size of the pool even more). NW does have a history of picking up planes who have had reasonably long careers with other carriers, but if the price is right newer a/c are certainly preferable.
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NWAFA
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RE: NWAC-US Fleet Commonality

Sun Jan 02, 2005 6:03 am

I can tell you for sure that in meetings with the company, they have been very vocal about wanting US A330's. So much that they have (the company) already approached ALPA (the Pilots union) to get a waiver regarding the crew bunk issue.

US A330's do NOT have crew bunks, and all of NWA's do....
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ANCFlyer
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RE: NWAC-US Fleet Commonality

Sun Jan 02, 2005 6:10 am

What about absorbing the US A330s and flying their international routes out of PHL? Of course, NW would have to feed those routes. Is it doable?

Edited for typos . . .

[Edited 2005-01-01 22:28:18]
FOR THOSE THAT FOUGHT FOR IT, FREEDOM HAS A FLAVOR THE PROTECTED WILL NEVER KNOW OR UNDERSTAND
 
NWAFA
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RE: NWAC-US Fleet Commonality

Sun Jan 02, 2005 6:16 am

Hi ANCFlyer,

Prior to Richard Anderson leaving I would have said you bet. Anderson said in many of his meetings that he "wished NWA could have a PHL operation".

Now with cold man, Doug, not really sure about that one.
THANK YOU FOR FLYING NORTHWEST AIRLINES, WE TRULY APPRECIATE YOUR BUSINESS!
 
Cubsrule
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RE: NWAC-US Fleet Commonality

Sun Jan 02, 2005 6:29 am

Does NW have the a/c to make a PHL international gateway work? I don't think anyone sees NW picking up the US 762s, and US only has 9 333s. I suppose NW could pick up US' slots for 332 deliveries, but those don't even start until 2007. Stored DC-10s are a possibility, but only looking at 9 a/c, it seems like they would be better used for international growth out of DTW or MSP.
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azjubilee
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RE: NWAC-US Fleet Commonality

Sun Jan 02, 2005 7:00 am

THere are a few things that I can see wanting from US. THeir entire 330 fleet which US owns to help bolster the red tail 330 fleet faster. This will allow for Atlantic expansion at their DTW international gateway as well as get the 10s out of the fleet sooner. With several 319s and 320s wtill on order I doubt that NWA would have interest in the US ones, especially since they're leased. The 321 could present an interesting dynamic... being roughly the same capasity as the 752s these could be used to supplement the fleet on the high density routes. Since NWA seems to be stuck with out being able to get more 753s and they want them to fly to HNL so bad... something has got to give on the high density domestic front. Enter, the 321 combined with the 752s to replace that lost capasity ( in the form of more frequency).

I agree with the BOS theory... none of the US hubs will likely remain "hubs" after the possible demise of US. They will become focus cities... and that's what the 3rd Airlink provision is all about. Not to mention perhaps some increased mainline capasity to these focus cities. I believe this 3rd Airlink will be Mesa and not Chautauqua. THis is due to mainline scope issues as well as the fact that Brian Bedford runs the show over at Chautauqa/Republic holdings. Anyone want to wager a guess where he worked before them? He was CEO of MESABA and left rather unpleasantly and let's say... he's not all that well liked by NWA. So, unfortunately IMO the 3rd Airlink will be Mesa.

I don't think NWA wants any part of the broken and dead ending businss plan US is follwing. NWA will just use any assetts that they can get their hands on to continue to follow their missions.


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