VSA340600
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Who Will Buy The Singapore A340-500's?

Sun Jan 02, 2005 2:09 am

Hello,

With all the talk of Singapore replacing the A345's with B777LR'S on routes to Los Angeles and New York, Who would buy them if Singapore chose to sell them. I know that Emirates has a few A345's in their fleet and would fit in quite nice, but what other airlines. Virgin Atlantic could find a use for them in replacing the A343's but they are buying loads of the A346's and may not fit in. Lufthansa has a large A330/340 fleet and Lufthansa could find a few routes to fly them too. Iberia could use them into Latin America alongside the A346's. Air France could also use them into South America alongside the B744's.

Anybody got any idea's to what Singapore airlines would do with them.

Cheers and have a great 2005.

VSA340600
Virgin Atlantic all the way!!!
 
AirCascadia
Posts: 38
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Who Will Buy The Singapore A340-500's?

Sun Jan 02, 2005 2:24 am

AC could do with them,they are still looking aircraft and already only have 2 of them
 
Horus
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Who Will Buy The Singapore A340-500's?

Sun Jan 02, 2005 2:25 am

I would say Iran Air is a possibilty. They tried to get their hands on AC's A345s when the Canadian carrier deferred the delivery of their aircraft. And if reports on this website are true that they'll lease Blue Wing A332s, then the A345 would make sence and allow them to retire the 7 B747s they currently operate that have an average age of 27 years.

Horus

p.s. Happy New Year Everybody...My first post of 2005!

[Edited 2005-01-01 18:26:35]
EGYPT: A 7,000 Year Old Civilisation
 
A388
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Who Will Buy The Singapore A340-500's?

Sun Jan 02, 2005 2:35 am

Air France can be ruled out as they are loyal to GE-powered aircraft.

A388
 
Alitalia744
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Who Will Buy The Singapore A340-500's?

Sun Jan 02, 2005 2:39 am

AF is committed to the 777 family for many reasons, including the aforementioned GE engine choice, but more importantly, due to the aircraft's capabilities.

-g
Some see lines, others see between the lines.
 
EddieDude
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Who Will Buy The Singapore A340-500's?

Sun Jan 02, 2005 2:52 am

Is SQ really going to get rid of its A345's? So far I don't think that SQ has placed an order for 772LR's.

If SQ indeed replaces the A345's with 772LR's, it would be interesting to see if the new planes are configured with executiveconomy seats and Raffles class only or if a more traditional economy/Raffles/First or economy/Raffles configuration is chosen.

As for who would buy them, I wish it were MX for the long-rumored flights to Asia. I would think that an A345 would be perfectly capable of doing MEX-TIJ-PVG (hopefully someone can confirm). I know, however, this is wishful thinking. Maybe AC would get them.
Next flights: MEX-LAX AM 738, LAX-PVG DL 77L, SHA-PEK CA 789, PEK-PVG CA A332, PVG-ORD MU 77W, ORD-MEX AM 738
 
BMED
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Who Will Buy The Singapore A340-500's?

Sun Jan 02, 2005 2:56 am

SQ don't seem to have much success with A340's. The last lot they had ended up been sold for boeing a/c. Shame really. Maybe bmi will to fly longer destinations from MAN. I wish!
Living the jetset life! No better way to be
 
greaser
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Who Will Buy The Singapore A340-500's?

Sun Jan 02, 2005 3:01 am

If SQ indeed replaces the A345's with 772LR's, it would be interesting to see if the new planes are configured with executiveconomy seats and Raffles class only or if a more traditional economy/Raffles/First or economy/Raffles configuration is chosen.

Hopefully it will be 3-class, as I know of quite a few passengers who don't understand how a premium (at least for economy passengers) flight does not allow them to have first class seats. Alot of rich people who don't fly Business want to do SIN-LAX/EWR/JFK nonstop.
Now you're really flying
 
BMED
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Who Will Buy The Singapore A340-500's?

Sun Jan 02, 2005 3:04 am

It always seems a waste of space to have 3 class on an a/c like the 345!
Living the jetset life! No better way to be
 
Leskova
Posts: 5547
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Who Will Buy The Singapore A340-500's?

Sun Jan 02, 2005 3:16 am

Well, first of all, SQ has to order B772LRs - and while I agree that this is probably more of a question of "when" than "if", it still has to happen first.

Then, it's a question of what type of deal Boeing offers SQ - I doubt they'll be offering the same deal as with the A340-300s, because the market for A340-500s is much smaller than for the -300, so it would be a lot harder for Boeing to place the aircraft.

In other words, SQ will either have to find new owners for the planes - or, they might keep them and use them for long-hauls on which either the capacity of the B772LR is not needed (and they could fit a First Class on the planes), or where a First Class is not needed.

As for other carriers for the planes - I really don't see what LH or VS could do with A340-500s - both have no routes that would need the range.

I guess that either AC or EK are probably the most likely candidates.

Regards,
Frank
Smile - it confuses people!
 
Planesmart
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Who Will Buy The Singapore A340-500's?

Sun Jan 02, 2005 3:18 am

A number of airlines must be re-evaluating transits thru US airports, following increased transit formalities - QF, BA, Air NZ

If the price is right, any number of ME and Asian-based airlines, plus throw in FedEx and UPS if a fire sale price.
 
sunrisevalley
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Who Will Buy The Singapore A340-500's?

Sun Jan 02, 2005 3:47 am


Don't forget that SQ are permitted very accelerated depreciation and thus can put these on the used market with relatively low hours/cycles and at substantial discounts to new frames if they wish.
 
ac7e7
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Who Will Buy The Singapore A340-500's?

Sun Jan 02, 2005 4:19 am

I agree, AC should acquire them if possible.
 
andrewuber
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Who Will Buy The Singapore A340-500's?

Sun Jan 02, 2005 4:40 am

Hell, I bet Sheikh Moe (EK) will write them a check for them. He seems to collect Airbuses. Maybe he'll order a few hundred more this year - I'm sure he can find SOMETHING to do with them.  Big thumbs up


[Edited 2005-01-01 20:40:37]
I'd rather shoot BAD_MOTIVE
 
slawko
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Who Will Buy The Singapore A340-500's?

Sun Jan 02, 2005 5:19 am

Last I heard ACA isnt entirely happy with them either...
"Clive Beddoe says he favours competition, but his actions do not support that idea." Robert Milton - CEO Air Canada
 
whitehatter
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Who Will Buy The Singapore A340-500's?

Sun Jan 02, 2005 5:25 am

If anything, they would be transferred across to SALE and leased on. I doubt whether Boeing would want burning again on aircraft as they were with the A343 fleet.

SQ could also retain them for route development. All I've seen so far is speculation and idle gossip, nothing concrete or confirmed. There are areas in which SQ has no major presence at the moment for which the four holers could be deployed, or even detanked to increase their payload over shorter distances. There is also the commonality issue as the A380 fleet will have broadly similar cockpits, and cranking up the hours on an A345 would make transition to the A380 faster and cheaper for flight crews.

Far too many variables. Nothing but speculation so fat.
Lead me not into temptation, I can find my own way there...
 
JoFMO
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Who Will Buy The Singapore A340-500's?

Sun Jan 02, 2005 6:42 am

It would makes me wonder if SQ still operates the 345 in 5 years. Nearly everybody here expects them to replace their 345 with 772LR in the mid-term.

I expect there are quite a few others who would like to operate an 345, but are not financially healthy enough.
EK, AC, SA, QF, TG, MH all have an interest in C-class aircrafts and could take SQ's 345 if the price is right.
 
ac7e7
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Who Will Buy The Singapore A340-500's?

Sun Jan 02, 2005 7:44 am

Last I heard ACA isnt entirely happy with them either...

Please explain; what is it they aren't happy with?
 
rj777
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Who Will Buy The Singapore A340-500's?

Sun Jan 02, 2005 7:51 am

Wonder what SQ are going to name the 772LRs?

Leadership 7?
 
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United_fan
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Who Will Buy The Singapore A340-500's?

Sun Jan 02, 2005 7:58 am

Greaser,I read that the reason SQ doesn't have F class on the 345's is because they're weight-restricted and the F class seats weigh too much.
Champagne For My Real Friends,and Real Pain For My Sham Friends
 
zvezda
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Who Will Buy The Singapore A340-500's?

Sun Jan 02, 2005 8:46 am

One possibility is that as SQ starts to take delivery of B777-200LRs to serve LAX and EWR, the A340-500s will temporarily be deployed on new nonstops to SFO and ORD until SQ has enough B777-200LRs to serve those markets. It is conceivable that SQ might order 5 B777-200LRs with options on 5 more, then serve LAX and EWR with the B777-200LRs and SFO and ORD with the A340-500s until loads and yields can be determined, and only then decide whether or not to exercise the options for the additional 5 B777-200LRs.
 
SNATH
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Who Will Buy The Singapore A340-500's?

Sun Jan 02, 2005 10:07 am

I'm sure SQ can "persuade" Boeing to buy their A345s, especially if a large
7E7 order is on the table, in addition to the 777-200LR one. And, if anything
else, can anyone think of a better promo for the 777-200LR than an airline
dumping its competitor to buy it? Come on... Boeing will do everything possible
for that to happen... But will it happen? Only time will tell.

Happy New Year everyone! 2005 is set to be a very interesting year for aviation!

Tony
Nikon: we don't want more pixels, we want better pixels.
 
777ER
Crew
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Who Will Buy The Singapore A340-500's?

Sun Jan 02, 2005 12:15 pm

Boeing offers SQ - I doubt they'll be offering the same deal as with the A340-300s, because the market for A340-500s is much smaller than for the -300, so it would be a lot harder for Boeing to place the aircraft. EK would snap them up quickly for expansion and more direct flights. The A345 are popular on Australian direct flights


A number of airlines must be re-evaluating transits thru US airports, following increased transit formalities - QF, BA, Air NZ NZ is a big no. NZ have ordered the B777 and have big options on more B777 family members. NZ have stated that they don't need the range of the B772LR and A345, so no need for the A345. Qantas is considering the B772LR and A345. I think a QF order will be announced early this year. One of our Aussie friends can confirm. I don't think BA would get the A345 as they don't have any A340s in the fleet. B772LR would be the most likly ultra long-range aircraft.

The B772LR can hold about 30 more passengers then the A345.
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SNATH
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Who Will Buy The Singapore A340-500's?

Sun Jan 02, 2005 12:53 pm

777ER,

Qantas is considering the B772LR and A345. I think a QF order will be announced early this year.

Hang on... Wasn't it Qantas who explicitly said (very recently) that they didn't
need such a long range plane (777-200LR or A340-500), as it makes more
economic sense for them to put more people in a larger plane, even if they
have to stop for fuel on the way?

But I totally agree with you on the BA comment. If they need the range, the
B777-200LR would be the only option for them.

Tony
Nikon: we don't want more pixels, we want better pixels.
 
9v-svc
Posts: 1703
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Who Will Buy The Singapore A340-500's?

Sun Jan 02, 2005 12:55 pm

How are the load factors for the SIN-LAX and SIN-EWR flights ? I don't think there is a need for an increase of capacity for these flights.
Airliners is the wings of my life.
 
dalecary
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Who Will Buy The Singapore A340-500's?

Sun Jan 02, 2005 12:59 pm

Qantas is considering the 773ER and 346 and not the 345 or 772LR.
 
N743AS
Posts: 112
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Who Will Buy The Singapore A340-500's?

Sun Jan 02, 2005 3:21 pm

SAA maybe? I heard from a Springbok Pilot that they aren't too happy with the A346. The A350 may make more sense...

My namesake is being scrapped...

-743AS
If the airplane is one piece, don't cheat on it...ride the bastard down! -Ernest K. Ghann
 
sebring
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Who Will Buy The Singapore A340-500's?

Sun Jan 02, 2005 3:33 pm

I agree, AC should acquire them if possible.

I thought that until recently, but I don't think that is going to happen. AC is looking for a more comprehensive fleet growth plan that also deals with renewal issues. This year they are hitting the used market to support growth, but beyond 2005 that may grow with new aircraft. Their situation is similar to Qantas. Same manufacturers, same types of aircraft under discussion.

 
soaringadi
Posts: 452
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Who Will Buy The Singapore A340-500's?

Sun Jan 02, 2005 3:41 pm

I think that there is a possibility of AI leasing them
If it ain't Boeing, I'm not going !
 
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AirIndia
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Who Will Buy The Singapore A340-500's?

Sun Jan 02, 2005 5:33 pm

maybe even 9W. since the GOI has cleared the path for private carriers to fly intl routes. 9W cud use them for the european routes.
 
B747-4U3
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Who Will Buy The Singapore A340-500's?

Sun Jan 02, 2005 5:36 pm

I read somewhere that Ait Tahiti Nui were considering the 345 for non-stop routes to Paris. Perhaps they would take them?
 
Udo
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Who Will Buy The Singapore A340-500's?

Sun Jan 02, 2005 5:38 pm

Hell, I bet Sheikh Moe (EK) will write them a check for them.

Who? Is that one of Mickey Mouse's cousins?  Wink/being sarcastic


He seems to collect Airbuses.

I still don't know who is meant, but should it be the head of Emirates - well, ever checked his pretty Boeing fleet?  Wink/being sarcastic
And btw, it's not him who collects aircraft, but it's a board of managers who decide which type suits best on which route.


Maybe he'll order a few hundred more this year

Has he ever?


- I'm sure he can find SOMETHING to do with them.

Yeah, the aircraft will carry high loads to and from Dubai. Had you ever checked some statistics on their flights operations or flown EK and visited their hub, you would know better...  Wink/being sarcastic


Regards
Udo
Me & You & a Plane Named Blue...
 
777ER
Crew
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Who Will Buy The Singapore A340-500's?

Sun Jan 02, 2005 5:51 pm

I read somewhere that Air Tahiti Nui were considering the 345 for non-stop routes to Paris. Perhaps they would take them? I think I read on here that the plan has been scrapped and instead another A343 will join the fleet.

Qantas is considering the 773ER and 346 and not the 345 or 772LR. Sorry my mistake
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behramjee
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Who Will Buy The Singapore A340-500's?

Sun Jan 02, 2005 5:52 pm

SAA are in $ 1 billion debt so no buying spree from them for a while!!! Thyere returning many A 319s and few A 340s as well.

Airlines that have the cash to snap up the SQ A 345s asap if offered on the market are :

Emirates + Etihad + Qatar Airways...especially EK and EY.

Other airlines that I feel could do nicely with these aircraft are :

Gulf Air for long haul nonstops to USA and AUST from AUH or BAH

Iran Air...badly need them  Big grin

Air Canada...need them for future international long haul expansion to SE Asia and India.

Kuwait Airways...for fleet commonality with their A 343s as these A 345s can easily replace all the long haul nonstop routes their B 772IGWs fly on.

Virgin Atlantic...SQ own 49% of VS so who knows...maybe a special deal for them  Big grin to facilitate their expansion to NBO-YYZ-GIG-INDIA-AUSTRALIA-BKK etc.

Lastly remember...any airline buying these SQ A 345s will have to dish out 1000s of $$$ on refitting the aircraft to their desired specifications and layout as SQs 181 seats in Eco+ and Business class are too little for all the airlines that Ive mentioned above.
 
CaptainTim
Posts: 378
Joined: Fri Dec 31, 2004 1:43 am

Who Will Buy The Singapore A340-500's?

Sun Jan 02, 2005 6:48 pm

i'm sorry this might seem stupid

but would orient thai buy these A340-500 or are they too new/ expensive fora budget airline like them to afford??

sorry i've just been thinking about that

tim
Gulfstream Planeview Cockpit: "why have hundreds of buttons when a CCD does the same thing and more?"
 
Leskova
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Who Will Buy The Singapore A340-500's?

Sun Jan 02, 2005 6:51 pm

SAA maybe? I heard from a Springbok Pilot that they aren't too happy with the A346.

Nope - SAA is quite happy with them.

But, as Behramjee mentioned, they're more concerned with consolidating at the moment than expanding.

Regards,
Frank
Smile - it confuses people!
 
StickShaker
Posts: 620
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Who Will Buy The Singapore A340-500's?

Sun Jan 02, 2005 6:59 pm

Qantas is considering the 773ER and 346 and not the 345 or 772LR. Sorry my mistake

Qantas' press releases on this issue have been somewhat vague.
If they wish to fly (non stop) further into the US than LAX/SFO then they could be looking at C market aircraft.



Cheers,
StickShaker
 
Aviation
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Who Will Buy The Singapore A340-500's?

Sun Jan 02, 2005 10:43 pm

Wouldn't it be a possibility that SQ would keep the craft and perhaps replace some other older craft don't know much about their fleet but could this be a possibility?

Thanks,
Aaron J Nicoli
Signed, Aaron Nicoli - Trans World Airlines Collector
 
anxebla
Posts: 1696
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Who Will Buy The Singapore A340-500's?

Sun Jan 02, 2005 11:29 pm

WHEN and just when SQ do it (that replacement) it's possible talking about what airline could buying the SQ's A340-500's, but not now. It's a non-sense talking about it at the moment.
AIRBUS 320 The world's most advanced single-aisle aircraft
 
AlitaliaMD11
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Who Will Buy The Singapore A340-500's?

Sun Jan 02, 2005 11:34 pm

hey,


if SQ where to let go of there A340-500s which would make me really sad becuase I love those planes, than I would guess that Thai might try to nab them.

I know they already have A340-500s and 600s on order but if they could get some of SQs that would bost there opperation, and enable them to start say BKG-JFK route.

Another airline could be Air Tahati Nui.
No Vueling No Party
 
karan69
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Who Will Buy The Singapore A340-500's?

Mon Jan 03, 2005 2:45 am

If all the comittes in the great indian civil ministry allow it AI or IC could get their hands on them.

we could well see one of Indias private carriers like Jet Airways or Air sahara take them for Int. expansions altough they have a predominantly Boeing fleet.

 
airbusfanyyz
Posts: 1410
Joined: Tue Oct 29, 2002 1:01 am

Who Will Buy The Singapore A340-500's?

Mon Jan 03, 2005 6:24 am

With current operators of the 345 being limited to SQ, AC, and EK the most likely choice is EK.
But I hope AC picks them up, it will really help their Indian expansion, as Behramjee as noted above.  Smile

Cheers,
Kaz
 
keesje
Posts: 8864
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Who Will Buy The Singapore A340-500's?

Mon Jan 03, 2005 6:54 am

It seems the authorities are in no hurry to grant the 772LR ETOPS330

& that is likely not the greatest selling point of the 777LR sofar..

(anybody noticed airlines are not exactly stumbling over each other ordering the 772LR´s?)
"Never mistake motion for action." Ernest Hemingway
 
planesarecool
Posts: 3211
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Who Will Buy The Singapore A340-500's?

Mon Jan 03, 2005 7:13 am

I think any operator in the Middle East/West Asia could benifit from them. Airlines like Pakistan International, Kuwait, Uzbekistan, Air India could get them so they could operate to the US without having to stop in London or Manchester.

Just a thought
-Stephen
 
gkirk
Posts: 23347
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Who Will Buy The Singapore A340-500's?

Mon Jan 03, 2005 9:27 am

PIA have the 777-200LR on order, they have no need to go for the 345 as well
When you hear the noise of the Tartan Army Boys, we'll be coming down the road!
 
ConcordeBoy
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Who Will Buy The Singapore A340-500's?

Mon Jan 03, 2005 10:07 am

It seems the authorities are in no hurry to grant the 772LR ETOPS330

...'course, not having even begun flight testing might have some'n to do with that  Nuts  Insane
Faire du ciel le plus bel endroit de la terre c'est impossible sans Concorde!
 
sebring
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Who Will Buy The Singapore A340-500's?

Mon Jan 03, 2005 10:31 am

With current operators of the 345 being limited to SQ, AC, and EK the most likely choice is EK.
But I hope AC picks them up, it will really help their Indian expansion, as Behramjee as noted above.  


Once again, I have been told by an impeccable source that AC will not go in that direction. In the timeframe those SQ aircraft might be available, AC will be taking delivery of new aircraft, and not 345s either.

 
trex8
Posts: 4618
Joined: Sat Nov 02, 2002 9:04 am

Who Will Buy The Singapore A340-500's?

Mon Jan 03, 2005 11:04 am

Boeing is not going to takea bunch of nearly brand new planes in exchange for anything after their experience with the SQ A343. They were stuck with them for so long its not something they want to deal with again. Their refusal to take CIs almost brand new A343s in a similar exchange to that they gave SQ was why CI went for A333s 2 years ago.

Heck, even Airbus refused to take back the A343s, though they let CI off taking delivery of one previously ordered (which CI then replaced with a leased one from Boeing!)

[Edited 2005-01-03 03:06:05]
 
ConcordeBoy
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Who Will Buy The Singapore A340-500's?

Mon Jan 03, 2005 11:30 am

Their refusal to take CIs almost brand new A343s in a similar exchange to that they gave SQ was why CI went for A333s 2 years ago.


Heck, even Airbus refused to take back the A343s, though they let CI off taking delivery of one previously ordered (which CI then replaced with a leased one from Boeing!)


There's so many things wrong with these statements that I'm not going to even bother to break 'em down.... suffice to say, that ain't it folks Laugh out loud Nuts

[Edited 2005-01-03 03:31:55]
Faire du ciel le plus bel endroit de la terre c'est impossible sans Concorde!
 
wingnutmn
Posts: 492
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Who Will Buy The Singapore A340-500's?

Mon Jan 03, 2005 11:50 am

Funny, no one has mentioned NW yet, they seem interested in both the 7E7 and the A350. Both offer long range, and low to mid 200 hundreds payloads. What if they bought SQ A340-500's at a "discounted rate" because they are used, and put them on a DTW-SIN, or MSP,DTW-SYD route. I'm sure that their is enough connection and business travel to make the DTW flight finacially feasable, and they can probably make the MSP or DTW to SYD flight possible through connections. Instead of a stop in LAX or HNL, they go from New york or the east coast to the midwest then on to SYD. No additional time in stopping or flying, and with the A330, their is already pilots flying a semi-common plane.....not only that, but this would give them a platform to train on for the introduction of the A350....which we all know they are going to order anyways. This fits right into NW business plan of lately. Open new markets and fly planes to their max and get them at a discounted rate. This would definitely make Airbuses day, week, and year, and help NW on their way to an all-airbus fleet.

WingutMN
Any landing you can walk away from is a good landing! It's a bonus if you can fly the plane again!!