rsmith6621a
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Delta Air Lines' Plan To Cut Up To 6900 Jobs Sta

Sun Jan 02, 2005 4:33 am

http://www.11alive.com/news/news_article.aspx?storyid=56855

ATLANTA (AP) -- Delta Air Lines' plan to cut up to 69,000 jobs starts today.

The plan, first announced in September, will be spread over 18 months.

The Atlanta-based carrier has said it will cut between 15,000 to 18,000 administrative jobs, 16,000 to 2,000 technical operations jobs and 29,000 to 31,000 customer service jobs.

The airline is asking employees to voluntarily retire or accept severance packages. Other employees may have to be laid off.

The jobs cuts are part of a broad cost-cutting plan by the nation's third-largest airline in its effort to return to profitabilit

*******************************************

Well Ill sit back and listen to those here who believe that the UNIONS are to blame......If the Unions were not involved do you really believe that the employee would be better off????......Do you really think the companies would pay their employees better or offer them a better compensation plan????....explain......


What is sadder is that while the general employees are taking it into the shorts the Executive Board, those who are making/approval all the bad decessions are still able to keep their multi-million BONUSES not to say the Country Club.
memberships.

My CEO refuses to raise airfairs any higher than the already cheap fares they already are.I am a airline employee who will be giving back 11% of their wages in a few days......I have taken a somewhat bold attitude that if my company doesnt want to raise fares to help themselves out and instead wants it from me then I feel I own a portion of each airfare that is sold, my tolorance for people who cry IS THAT THE LOWEST PRICE when I tell them $225.00RT LAX/JFK with no advance notice is very low, a few weeks ago we offered a $135.00RT from CLT to any CA city fully refundable and NO ADVANCE........GOD...how much lower are we suppose to go......

The customer has to accept their share of the blame to......
Did You Ever Think Freedom Could Be this Bad
 
aa757first
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Delta Air Lines' Plan To Cut Up To 6900 Jobs Sta

Sun Jan 02, 2005 4:37 am

Well Ill sit back and listen to those here who believe that the UNIONS are to blame......If the Unions were not involved do you really believe that the employee would be better off????......Do you really think the companies would pay their employees better or offer them a better compensation plan????....explain......

So do you think the unions are protecting Delta employees?

Sorry, they aren't . Delta has no unions, except for ALPA with the pilots and I think TWU with the dispatchers. So the packages you say the unions are responsible for fighting for were actually conceived by management.

AAndrew
 
rsmith6621a
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Delta Air Lines' Plan To Cut Up To 6900 Jobs Sta

Sun Jan 02, 2005 4:41 am

>So do you think the unions are protecting Delta employees?<


The Corporations and current adminstration(BUSH) have removed much of the Bite the UNION once had.

But hey thanks for sticken up for the big guy!!!!!!!
Did You Ever Think Freedom Could Be this Bad
 
MaverickM11
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Delta Air Lines' Plan To Cut Up To 6900 Jobs Sta

Sun Jan 02, 2005 4:45 am

"My CEO refuses to raise airfairs any higher than the already cheap fares they already are.I"

Are you kidding me with this? This is the US, not the USSR.
E pur si muove -Galileo
 
isitsafenow
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Delta Air Lines' Plan To Cut Up To 6900 Jobs Sta

Sun Jan 02, 2005 4:50 am

Lets see now....69,000 should be the entire DL family. If DL goes under, which I really don't think is going to happen, that's 69,000.
Now, if you take the max numbers in the above post, you add 18,000, 2,000 and 31,000. That does not add up to 69,000. Its more sensationalism from the press. Don't buy those numbers, people.
safe
If two people agree on EVERYTHING, then one isn't necessary.
 
ANCFlyer
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Delta Air Lines' Plan To Cut Up To 6900 Jobs Sta

Sun Jan 02, 2005 4:51 am

Rsmith6621a . . .several thoughts here. Since this is not the Non-Av forum I won't presume to debate you here regarding current administration(BUSH) have removed much of the Bite the UNION once had you spouted forth. We can save that for another forum.

And I will agree, this part of your post sucks. What is sadder is that while the general employees are taking it into the shorts the Executive Board, those who are making/approval all the bad decessions are still able to keep their multi-million BONUSES not to say the Country Club memberships. Remember 9/11 and Gordon Bethune and others at CO did without their salaries in the last quarter of 01. I also remember at that time, that DLs CEO and executive staff kept al of their compensation. You make a good point here. Sacrifice must start from the top.

Unions, for whatever it's worth, are not concerned with the employees . . . thats my opinion. What they are concerned with is the big dollar payroll for the union bosses and lining the pockets of the lobbyists and others. Unions long, long ago lost their effectiveness because they forgot their basic tenet was to take care of the people that paid the dues. Simple as that.
FOR THOSE THAT FOUGHT FOR IT, FREEDOM HAS A FLAVOR THE PROTECTED WILL NEVER KNOW OR UNDERSTAND
 
Lono
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Delta Air Lines' Plan To Cut Up To 6900 Jobs Sta

Sun Jan 02, 2005 4:53 am

Rsmith.... one to many zero's on that figure.... and the article has the same typo error.... DL is expected to cut another 6900 not 69000 positions
Wally Bird Ruled the Skys!
 
jmc1975
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Sun Jan 02, 2005 4:54 am

69,000??? Isn't that the entire workforce?
.......
 
JetMechMD80
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Sun Jan 02, 2005 5:03 am

Rsmith,

Interesting how you left out this part of the story in your little anti-bush propaganda piece.


Delta has lost more than $6 billion dollars since early 2001, during which time it has already eliminated 16,000 jobs and cut the pay of other employees, including its executives.

Now you can rant and rave about how those evil Republican executives dream at night about screwing the poor little union worker, but from seeing your past posts, we all know the real story. Its about your unhealthy hatred of our President. Get over it, the election is over, your side lost, and even if you had won, it would have changed nothing.

Happy New Year  Smile
"I get along great with nobody"~ Billy Idol
 
rsmith6621a
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Delta Air Lines' Plan To Cut Up To 6900 Jobs Sta

Sun Jan 02, 2005 5:04 am

>Bethune and others at CO did without their salaries in the last quarter of 01<


Im not talking SALARIES.....IM talking about bonuses and Golf Club memeberships....during all the BK filings several past CEO at my line still collected mega bonuses and LIFETIME rides in FirstClass not only for them but their childern as well and pensions.......these privlages were finally striped away in the past two months as a result of employee/union pressure.

Bethune is also a different sort of CEO he involves himself with the employees other than those in the Halls of the corporate HQ.


Did You Ever Think Freedom Could Be this Bad
 
acvitale
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Delta Air Lines' Plan To Cut Up To 6900 Jobs Sta

Sun Jan 02, 2005 5:10 am

I will note that Delta has a new CEO and many of the upper management team have left over the last year either by choice or asked to depart.

People like Vicki Escarra are finally gone.

The new Exec team declined bonuses and have taken pay hits as well.

One must be careful not to confuse the old DL management team with the new. The new team got a ship floundering and almost lost her. But have been doing a good job avoiding the rocks of BK.

The Comair debacle did nothing to help but, time will tell if it was critical or not. Much may depend on how DL treats their customers who were affected and how they make ammends.

Just my $.02

ACVitale
 
FLAIRPORT
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Sun Jan 02, 2005 6:12 am

that is true...this is really a "NEW DELTA" with entirely new managment!

On a side note, I went to Delta's website and they are actually hiring a large number or CSAs and Ready Reserve agents...which now that I see this news, I think is REAL odd!
NEXT FLIGHT: FLL-ATL-HPN on FL
 
DeltaGuy
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Sun Jan 02, 2005 6:15 am

Hey, great....another thread where Randall ties some sort of failure to the Bush Administration....for once I thought I'd open a spin-free thread, but that hope was a fat chance lol...thanks for providing us with nothing less than crap.

DeltaGuy
"The cockpit, what is it?" "It's the little room in the front of the plane where the pilot sits, but that's not importan
 
Guest

Delta Air Lines' Plan To Cut Up To 6900 Jobs Sta

Sun Jan 02, 2005 6:15 am

ATLANTA (AP) -- Delta Air Lines' plan to cut up to 69,000 jobs starts today.


AAAAAHAHAHAHAHA 69,000 jobs?  Laugh out loud

I hope everyone sees just how careless the media is.

B
 
northwest_guy
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Delta Air Lines' Plan To Cut Up To 6900 Jobs Sta

Sun Jan 02, 2005 6:50 am

Yeah, I am behind the times...

So when did Vicki "Escarry" leave?

I have a hard time believing that Delta will cut anywhere near 69,000 jobs...is there even that many to cut?
 
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chrisnh
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Sun Jan 02, 2005 7:02 am

...The customer has to accept their share of the blame to.........

What a typical airline employee attitude. It's always someone else's fault. Like the little kid who says, 'Not MEEEE!' when their parent asks who broke the vase.

COSTS ARE A FUNCTION OF REVENUES...NOT THE OTHER WAY AROUND!!!

You ask, 'How low are we supposed to go with airfares?' Just because YOUR airline can't go lower doesn't mean another airline can't. So don't whine!!! You haven't proven any law of economics, only that YOUR company has screwed its own economics up big-time. And with that as FACT, you want to point the finger anywhere else but at yourself. The whole airline industry is filled with good, hard-working people. But it's also filled--at least at Legacy-Land--with workers who feel a sense of entitlement and who believe that if fat paychecks worked in the 1970s and 1980s, then by golly why not now???

How DARE you airline people say that the REVENUES should be raised to support YOUR salaries!!!! Do you even have a CLUE that yours is not the only industry seeing employee layoffs and reduced salaries??? How about high-tech and telecom, to name two huge constituencies???

Look at makers of personal computers. Go back to 1995 and see what it would cost to get a 'decent' PC from someone like Dell. Now check in 2004: the price is much LESS and the capabilities much HIGHER!!! Do you hear Dell employees WHINING about how unfair it is that people are paying less for PCs? No. And you know why not? Largely, because companies like these have figured out the economic realities and have learned to live (and succeed) within them. If some quack from Dell said that I needed to pay $5,000 for a PC again so his salary--or job--wouldn't go away, he'd be laughed at till he died.

And when you airline employees go shopping for PCs and other stuff, aren't you GLAD that prices are lower and performance higher? Makes your purchase much more valuable, doesn't it? Aren't you GLAD that your PC costs less than $1,000 when the same thing wasn't even available for five times that price a few short years ago??? What do PC makers know that you guys don't. And forget about leaning on that tired crutch about 'fuel prices.' And you're going to be a hypocrite and say that airline passengers are 'to blame' for demanding low fares? How's that for the Pot calling the Kettle black???

If Mr John Doe who got layed off from a telecom company (and has NO salary) wants to fight for the lowest possible airfare, you're gonna tell him that he has to accept some of the BLAME??? Par for the course from the finger-pointers.

The world is FULL of Mr. John Doe's like this. They either have no salaries, or they have been forced to take much lesser jobs and the much lesser incomes that go with them. Don't go around trying to impress us with the financial ruins within your companies, as though your industry is somehow a unique example.

Chris in NH

 
777STL
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Sun Jan 02, 2005 7:03 am

According to Yahoo, Delta has 70k employees total. Bahahahahaha.

-77
PHX based
 
Tango-Bravo
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Delta Air Lines' Plan To Cut Up To 6900 Jobs Sta

Sun Jan 02, 2005 8:07 am

....I have taken a somewhat bold attitude that if my company doesnt want to raise fares to help themselves out and instead wants it from me...

So far, so good! Also, not so much a bold attitude as it a statement indicating recognition of an obvious fact.

The customer has to accept their share of the blame to.....

Assuming you mean to say that customers must accept their share of the blame too, as in "also," am I missing something or do I detect a contradiction of the first opinion quoted? Does the first statement quoted above not establish that it is your comapany who "doesn't want to raise fares...?" Moreover, how can customers be blamed in any way for accepting absurd loss-leader fares that management is stupid enough to continually offer at a time when demand for air travel is at an all-time high?

 
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jetpixx
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Sun Jan 02, 2005 9:35 am

I've added JetMechMD80 to my respected users list for his wise opinion of our president.

In any event, this will be 6900 jobs. It is unfortunate, as Delta is my favorite carrier - but they need to do something to stay ahead of the game. I hope that this works and gets them back on track and that our government keeps us as safe as the last three years. Another incident in the aviation industry would be horrible for not only Delta but all other airlines finally making some strides.
 
dl021
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Sun Jan 02, 2005 9:40 am

Just one thing to point out here...in the initial post the numbers listed differed from the report referenced by a factor of ten. It was not once, but almost throughout.
15,000 to 18,000 administrative jobs, 16,000 to 2,000 technical operations jobs and 29,000 to 31,000 customer service jobs.

When I read the article it said that the numbers were between between 1,500 to 1,800 administrative jobs, 1,600 to 2,000 technical operations jobs and 2,900 to 3,100 customer service jobs.....

Now, with this uncorrected by the original poster, and the complete overstatement (not just a typo, we all do that) someone tell me why we should accept any more information or opinion as valid from this poster.

The new team at DL has made difficult decisions and kept the airline afloat. They cut their own pay first then asked the rest of the team to take their hits, but also gave them hope for the future with profit sharing and other incentives.

DL has a long row to hoe to get back to profitability, but they can get there. Unions sure ain't gonna help them get there willingly. The only union at DL waited until the last possible moment to do what was necessary to help the airline and took advantage of the interim period to allow its members to bail out with the company's money in the form of early retirements and guaranteed packages.

The management is not perfect, and probably has its shares of horses asses just like every other corporation in the US. The people there, however, deserve the opportunity to succeed and the airline has to restructure to make it happen. It's going to hurt, and it is not over yet. I hope my neighbors make it through unscathed. I support Delta and its team.
Is my Pan Am ticket to the moon still good?
 
pbiflyer
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Sun Jan 02, 2005 9:43 am

ChrisNH,

It's not fair to compare Dell Computers to any airline operation at all. Computer component parts have all come down in price to Dell, and the other PC makers. So therefore they can well lower the prices on their PC's, and they have. The airlines are faced with nothing but increased costs, the least of which is employee salaries. Fuel is up higher than its ever been as well as tires, aircraft parts etc. You name it and the airlines are paying more than they used to have to pay.

It is FAIR to say that airline fares have not kept pace with inflation or any other cost comparison you can come up with. Airfares I have paid over the last couple of years are far less than I paid 5 - 10 years ago. Just one example if I may: I recently paid $138.00 for a round trip ticket from PBI to Atl, going up one day and back the next and not over a Saturday. The same trip 10 years ago cost me $625.00! Now, you tell me where is the blame to be laid? Despite the fact that I love the low airfares, they are too low, and are the main reason airlines can't make any money that have been around for a long time, and have long term employees who are entitled to increases in salaries. The so called LCC ailines are fairly new and their employees make less money. This will change as they gain longevity with the LCC airlines. They too will start to have problems with airfares artificially low.

I am not an airline employee, but as a passenger paying the low fares I have to take some of the blame, like it or not. It is time to stop bashing airline employees and give them some credit for staying in there to help us, the paying customer.

Since DL only has to deal with the Pilots Union, Union's can't be the blame for the employees salaries. New management at DL is also taking pay cuts along with the other employees. The employees are not happy, but to save their jobs and their airline they agree to less pay. How would you like to take a 10 - 30 % reduction in pay like some Pilots and other airline employees are taking? I bet you wouldn't like it and if you owned your own company, you would raise your prices to help pay your own salary in order to survive.
PBI is South Florida's BEST airport!
 
GuitrThree
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Delta Air Lines' Plan To Cut Up To 6900 Jobs Sta

Sun Jan 02, 2005 10:49 am

Pbiflyer,
You said,
"Just one example if I may: I recently paid $138.00 for a round trip ticket from PBI to Atl, going up one day and back the next and not over a Saturday. The same trip 10 years ago cost me $625.00!"


To that I say, do you not think that maybe, just maybe, you are not paying too little now, but you paid WAY too much 10 years ago? Shoot, even Kmart could stay in business if they found people to pay $625 for a $100 coat.

I just can't buy the fact that customers are at fault here. They HAVE a choice. OTHER airlines are providing lower cost fairs and ARE making money. They are doing it by good management and controlling costs, and when I say costs, I'm not ONLY referring to salaries. Shoot, there is a website out there that shows Southwest Pilots make just about as much -or more- than anyone out there except for Delta Pilots, especially when you look at the fact they are flying 737's. Controlling costs means doing things right, fast gate turns, similar fleets, no frills, etc.

You also said,

"How would you like to take a 10 - 30 % reduction in pay like some Pilots and other airline employees are taking? I bet you wouldn't like it and if you owned your own company, you would raise your prices to help pay your own salary in order to survive. "

You weren't talking to me, but NO I WOULDN'T!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! If you had ANY business sense, you would NEVER raise your prices above market rate instead of doing a labor cut. If you price yourself out of the market there is no reason to stay in business because soon you won't be selling ANYTHING. You would, as a responsible owner, first, look for other ways to cut costs, then you would layoff or cut pay. One basic business rule, you NEVER raise prices over the cost of inflation.
You are basically saying to Delta, "Raise your prices. People won't mind paying more. Sure they can get the same flight from another carrier, but they really like paying more just to keep someone in a job. No one really uses the internet to find the lowest price so they won't notice. Orbitz? Expedia? Who uses those?"

Geeze. Yea. Ok.

Remember that coat example above? Bring some competition who can sell that $100 coat for $100, i.e., Wal*Mart, and look what happens. I didn't see anyone saying, if that darn Wal*Mart wouldn't have come to town all those Kmart people would be employed because we don't mind paying $625 for a $100 coat.
And before you bring up "what about all those little mom and pop businesses that closes, what about all those people," well, we are NOT talking about a small business vs large business here. We are talking DELTA (and U.S. Air) vs other similar sized businesses.

I REPEAT, it is NOT THE PUBLICS FAULT..
it is NOT THE PUBLICS FAULT..
it is NOT THE PUBLICS FAULT..

It is bad management AND employees (not all).

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thunder9
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Delta Air Lines' Plan To Cut Up To 6900 Jobs Sta

Sun Jan 02, 2005 10:56 am

PBIflyer --

I've just added you to my respected user list. Very good points re: comparing Dell to the airline industry. BTW, I've a friend that *used* to work for Dell, and he still bitches about Dell managements' handling of staff reductions, even two years later.

One thing that many people blindly post in these forums is how "labor costs" need to go down. Well, with most airline employees in the field making $10-$25 per hour, does it seem that those salaries will bust the airlines? Probably not. I recall seeing an article on the Fortune Magazine website just after US went into bankruptcy the first time and just before UA entered. The article stated that the labor costs of the six U.S. legacy carriers on 9/11, 65%-70% of those costs were at the airlines' HQ campuses. Now, I know that there are plenty of admin, clerical, entry-level mgmt, etc working at HQ whose salaries aren't high, but how much of that 65-70% goes to upper-management? I'm sure that it is a large percentage. And working for AA, I still wonder to this day how the AMR Board of Directors allows AA to employ three (3) VP's for each department. Yes, a VP, a Senior VP, and an Executive VP. I'm sure each of the folks in those positions make more than a dozen rampers, gate agents, mechanics, or F/A's combined.

Also, folks need to remember that the legacy carriers have pension plans that they pay huge $$ into every year, while LCC's don't have the burden of pensions to pay into.

Yes, the airlines, especially upper-mgmt heavy legacies, must make changes. But they cannot continue to ask their lowest paid front-line field workers to give up more than they already have.

Agreeing with your post, PBIflyer, the traveling public does need to pay more to fly. I'm not talking obscene amounts more. Perhaps 7-15% more, depending on the trip length. Regardless of which side of the "financial fence" anyone in here is on, all must agree that airfares should come up a bit, especially when airfares in some U.S. markets are cheaper than riding Amtrak or Greyhound!

There are many factors at work which are making it difficult for the legacy carriers - some the airlines can control, others they cannot. But, in the U.S. at least, the traveling public needs to be willing to cover the airlines' costs associated with flying.

-J

"Keep thy airspeed up, less the earth come from below and smite thee." - William Kershner
 
GuitrThree
Posts: 1940
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Delta Air Lines' Plan To Cut Up To 6900 Jobs Sta

Sun Jan 02, 2005 11:09 am

You know,

I was just watching a Home Depot commercial while reading Thunder9's post. Do you want to know what it was about?

The commercial stated that last year, Home Depot permanently lowered prices on 5000 items, and in the same breath they stated that their employees also contribute to their success because they give customers their expertise for free.

Now, Home Depot is experiencing, lets see. Higher freight costs (gas), higher energy costs (ever heat or cool a depot?). Higher employee costs including benefits, higher costs of building new stores as customers are demanding one or more in each town. Humm, sounds familiar huh. You don't see them asking their customers to pay more. They are saying to them look what we did for you. We lowered the price of 5,000 items

I don't see Depot hurting.

Everyone needs to quit crying about how bad the Airlines have it because tickets are cheap.

Get good management and clean up the labor heavy force and the Airlines will be fine.



[Edited 2005-01-02 03:10:21]
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isitsafenow
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Delta Air Lines' Plan To Cut Up To 6900 Jobs Sta

Sun Jan 02, 2005 11:17 am

Its simple economics here, folks. DL and USAirways will not raise price because the competition won't let them. If the said airlines were to raise fares 20 bucks per round trip, do you really think independence Air, AirTran, Spirit and Southwest will do the same?
Hell no. That's their leverage.....low fares....thats why people beat a path to their door...el cheap-o as I call them.
Their not el-cheap-o's if they have fares equal or higher then the big guys. The big guys match em....and thats where their troubles start. They play right into the jaws of the el-cheap-o's because the big six cannot sustain cheap fares over a long period of time. They are not structured to do so like e- cheap-o is.
safe
If two people agree on EVERYTHING, then one isn't necessary.
 
ltbewr
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Sun Jan 02, 2005 11:22 am

First of all, I suspect that the real numbers are 6 thousand, 9 hundred, not 69,000. It takes a lot of people to run an airline 24/7/365(366 in leap yrs.!) behind the scenes in the offices to meet business and government needs and requirements. Not everything can be done by a computer, sometimes it takes humans getting decent pay to take those responsibities. With that said, it's too bad that these legacies cannot get rid of a layer or 2 of management that are just pushing and crunching numbers for someone higher. I know to attract and keep good people one has to pay the market prices. Problem is, far too many manager/executive class people have had hugh raises in the last several years, while the line worker has been losing to lower pay and benefits.
I do have some questions on these cutbacks. Will DL push more jobs to contract companies where they won't have to pay the benefits for? Will they try to hire new people on a lower tiered pay rate, and not be able to ever get to the levels of previous generation employees? Will they hire more employees from other than the USA, like countries where DL won't have to worry about pensions and health benefits comming from their pockets and costs?
 
coa764
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Delta Air Lines' Plan To Cut Up To 6900 Jobs Sta

Sun Jan 02, 2005 11:26 am

My CEO refuses to raise airfairs any higher than the already cheap fares they already are.I am a airline employee who will be giving back 11% of their wages in a few days

There have been repeated attempts by different carriers to input fair hikes in 04 but all failed. it isn't YOUR CEO that is holding you airline back (unless you work for NWA) it is the lack of participation by other air carriers in going along with the fair increase. If Airline A raise their fairs on certain routes and their competitors do not match that far increase then airline A looses market share to a competitor that has the cheaper price. With the domestic market share pricing being flat coupled with over capacity last thing airline A needs to do is have customers buying tickets on it's competitors. So if your CEO raised YOUR airlines fairs and the other airlines do not match you loose money on the increase due to a decrease in passenger traffic. Internet pricing can be a very delicate issue since most folks click on the lowest price and not the name. So you CEO, by resending the various fair increase's, saved your company from taking even larger losses thus your only take an 11% reduction as opposed to a larger one up to layoffs.
Please oh please Mr Moderator Nazi, dont delete my thread.
 
ual777contrail
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Sun Jan 02, 2005 11:58 am

~~~~~~~~The Corporations and current adminstration(BUSH) have removed much of the Bite the UNION once had.

But hey thanks for sticken up for the big guy!!!!!!!

And if you thought it was cool to skip to work, you'd do it also right? Hating Bush because you think it is cool? You think everyone else does? he wont the popular vote, and the election, move on.


UAL 777 CONTRAIL
 
jeb94
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Sun Jan 02, 2005 12:32 pm

I'm sorry but you can't compare airline economics to Home depot, Wal-mart, Dell, or any other retail economic model. Airlines sell travel, which is a service, not a product. Its a different kind of economic model. The cost of doing business for an airline is much, much higher than Building a new store. Guess what, Home Depot, Wal-Mart, and Dell have suppliers that they buy the products from and in many cases, those suppliers are responsible for paying at least some of the costs for delivery of those products. With an airline, they have tremendous costs. Every aircraft costs money while sitting on the ground. Every flight costs money, seats full or not. Technology R&D is in overdrive in electronics so components are built cheaper with more capablities by the supplier, not to mention that most computer components come from overseas. Airlines can't do that. Fuel costs are higher than they've ever been, security costs are higher than they've ever been, many are afraid to fly still (a victory for terrorists by the way) and at least one airline (the one with the big red tail) is trying to drive other airlines out of business so fairs can't be raised because the red tails won't go along with it.
 
newbieflyer
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Delta Air Lines' Plan To Cut Up To 6900 Jobs Sta

Sun Jan 02, 2005 1:29 pm

I totally agree with you, Jeb94, not to mention the job of everyone working at an airline is to keep thousands of passengers a day safe in metal tubes at 30,000 feet, not to find the right elbow widget for their plumbing system or 79-cent bag of orangs slices. I sure as hell want airline employees to be MUCH better paid, trained, and have higher morale than low-end retail employees.
 
flpuck6
Posts: 2047
Joined: Fri Jun 11, 1999 12:32 am

Delta Air Lines' Plan To Cut Up To 6900 Jobs Sta

Sun Jan 02, 2005 1:30 pm

Very interesting ...

it's hard to imagine they have to let go of even more employees ... especially when DL can barely provide proper man-power to handle our flights (DL handles our company on the ramp and at check-in).

Bonjour Chef!
 
RyanAFAMSP
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Joined: Mon Nov 08, 2004 4:24 pm

Delta Air Lines' Plan To Cut Up To 6900 Jobs Sta

Sun Jan 02, 2005 1:32 pm

I love so many of these posts. DL has the LOWEST union density of ANY of the 12 largest airlines except for B6, and last month its margins were the WORST. Yet people on here are still freaking out about unions and insulting airline workers.

Rather than continually blaming the people who dedicate their whole lives to flying, I wish we could talk about the broader economic and political trends that are putting immense pressure on the bottom lines of the vast majority of the airlines. But it seems most days on this forum we can't do that. We dogmatically bash the employees while we fail to make more complex and illuminating criticisms. Lets answer the real questions. What are the parallels between USAirways' and Eastern's business models? How did Delta, in many ways, transition from "first to worst" in terms of profit margins and a successful business model? What are the ways that the legacy carriers can be stabilized, other than asking employees to be a de facto bank, financing low cost tickets?

Many of you answer bust the unions. But at Delta, except for the pilots, there aren't any, and the ship is out of control. I think its time we all had a more critical conversation.
 
1MillionFlyer
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Delta Air Lines' Plan To Cut Up To 6900 Jobs Sta

Sun Jan 02, 2005 10:20 pm

Jeb94

You can certainly compare Dell, Wal*Mart, and Home Depot to Delta. To the general public a product or service and the price of them is a function of supply and demand. There is too much supply in the airline industry right now and so prices will be too low until that gets corrected.

You can't use "but the airlines are responsible for safely transporting people" that's like saying "Buy this new car, becuase it will start every time you try to start it" That would not sell a car becuase people expect a new car will start every time.

Airlines are monitored for safety by the FAA and are highly regulated That is something the public takes for granted, since every airline is "safe" in the eyes of the public that is not something people think about.

In terms of service let me put a number in front of you, I used to manage a consulting company that provided 100% service only. We had programmers during Y2K that knew the Cobol programming language that were getting 85 to 95 dollars an hour to re-write code. A lot these people got severe attitudes because they were in high demand, guess what happened in 2000? those same people were getting 65 dollars an hour, by 2002 they were getting 45 dollars an hour, by 2003 they were getting 35 dollars an hour, now the rate is not even important since this work can be outsourced to India for 15 dollars an hour to consulting companies that are quality certified at levels that the U.S. companies never bothered to acheive. Guess what these people are doing today? They either wnet back to school to learn something new, or they are practicing that great US mantra "Do you want fries with that?"

Supply and Demand is how a free market economy works, airlines, Dell and Taco Bell and IBM are all subject to this economic reality.
Golf Foxtrot you are cleared for departure
 
Jumpseat70
Posts: 359
Joined: Sun Jan 25, 2004 12:52 am

Delta Air Lines' Plan To Cut Up To 6900 Jobs Sta

Sun Jan 02, 2005 10:27 pm

Rsmith6211a or whatever your misprinted name is. Get your facts straight. You misquoted your own article.

It's 6,900 jobs!! And we've known about it for sometime. I cannot believe some of you sometime.
"Up, Up and away with TWA"
 
Guest

Delta Air Lines' Plan To Cut Up To 6900 Jobs Sta

Mon Jan 03, 2005 12:27 am

Rsmith6211a or whatever your misprinted name is. Get your facts straight. You misquoted your own article.

It's 6,900 jobs!! And we've known about it for sometime. I cannot believe some of you sometime.


Jumpseat, he copied and pasted it right from 11 Alive's website. They originally had 69,000 and the rest of the stats multiplied by 10. It was their error, not his.

They have since changed it to the correct numbers.

They either did this on purpose to make things out to be worse than they are, or it's a mistake that slipped thru and they are pathetically incompetent. They should at least print a correction.

B
 
OPNLguy
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Delta Air Lines' Plan To Cut Up To 6900 Jobs Sta

Mon Jan 03, 2005 1:13 am

>>>Delta has no unions, except for ALPA with the pilots and I think TWU with the dispatchers.

Just for the record, Delta's dispatchers are not TWU, but have an in-house union called PAFCA... United's dispatcher's also went PAFCA a few years ago...
ALL views, opinions expressed are mine ONLY and are NOT representative of those shared by Southwest Airlines Co.
 
delta-flyer
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Delta Air Lines' Plan To Cut Up To 6900 Jobs Sta

Mon Jan 03, 2005 2:50 am

1Million ... excellent post!

Just a couple of observations about WallMart, etc. versus airlines ...

In the retail business, tremendous structural changes have occurred ... most notably, virtually every product being sold is manufactured in an LCC (low cost country). This has significantly cut the cost of the product they sell. OPerating efficiencies have also improved with increasing use of computerized inventory management and so on, which is certainly true of the airlines as well.

However, the airlines are still saddled with high cost of aircraft acquisition, high maintenence cost, high operating cost (driven by fuel costs) and high labor costs - generally all beyond the control of airlines.

Where they do have control is efficiency, and they have made progress. The new LCC's (Low Cost Carriers), however, have adopted a business model that makes greater efficiencies possible than the traditional airlines can achieve, but everyone is still bound by the fares that the marketplace dictates, that are driven by the LCC's.

So, cutting jobs is one cost-saving option an airline has; hopefully, they will maintain the current level of service wth fewer employees.

As I have posted in another thread, comparing Delta with Southwest .... their yield per revenue passenger mile is about the same, but Southwest's cost per available seat-mile is about 20% lower. That's the difference between profit and loss.

Pete
"In God we trust, everyone else bring data"
 
bucky707
Posts: 954
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Delta Air Lines' Plan To Cut Up To 6900 Jobs Sta

Mon Jan 03, 2005 3:33 am

people are getting too worked up about this article. Back when the big announcement came out, Delta said it would be cutting about 7000 positions in addition to closing DFW and some other changes. They even said the cuts would start to take place in 05. Now, it is 05, the cuts are starting to take place, and typical of the press, they release an article worded to make it seem like this is something new.

It's not. We have known about this. There are no additional cuts beyond what was already announced.
 
lnglive1011yyz
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Joined: Thu Oct 23, 2003 12:23 pm

Delta Air Lines' Plan To Cut Up To 6900 Jobs Sta

Mon Jan 03, 2005 4:34 am

At my company, the pay scale went *down* after they brought in the Union. All the Union did was protect the workers that were constantly at odds with management. That's it.

Not only did they have to take a pay cut quite dramatically, but they also ended up paying union dues, which FURTHER dragged their paycheque down.

Not saying the Unions are to blame, but I tend to believe they have a HUGE hand in this.

1011yyz
Pack your bags, we're going on a sympathy trip!