ua777222
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Wow Turbulence Can Kill!

Mon Jan 03, 2005 1:10 pm

I was reading that in 1997 a United 747-100 flying near Japan encountered severe turbulence that led to the death of one passenger and left 3 crew members with serious injurys. From my research the a/c was NRT?SFO and that shortyly after take-off the pilots hit severe turbulence during "clear-air" flight and caused the death of one passenger and left close to 100 with minor injurys. Does anyone else know of this incident?

For all those "How bad can turbulence get?" here's an example of how bad it can get. Now from my understanding "severe" means loss of alt. and some loss of control over the aircraft.

Any other info on this crash would be great!

Thanks again for all the help!

UA777222
"It wasn't raining when Noah built the ark."
 
IslipWN
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RE: Wow Turbulence Can Kill!

Mon Jan 03, 2005 1:15 pm

I can't help you with that, but I do remember a while back in 2004, there was an IB A340 somewhere over South America that hit really bad turbulence. For some reason I remember that 6 or 8 people died and a lot of people had to be hospitalized.


Joe
 
aaflt1871
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RE: Wow Turbulence Can Kill!

Mon Jan 03, 2005 1:17 pm

The link below list almost all fatalities since 1980



http://www.airsafe.com/events/turb.htm
Where did everybody go?
 
aaflt1871
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RE: Wow Turbulence Can Kill!

Mon Jan 03, 2005 1:30 pm

Below is a link on the United 747 you were asking about.

Hope it helps


http://cimss.ssec.wisc.edu/goes/misc/971228.html


Rob
Where did everybody go?
 
Capt.Fantastic
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RE: Wow Turbulence Can Kill!

Mon Jan 03, 2005 1:33 pm

I remember this incident and a few others of the sort. The aircraft was N4723U and was enroute from Tokyo to HNL. The turbulance was not anticipated, however, according to the NTSB, " ... the Japanese-speaking flight attendant did not fully translate one of the captain's instructions to fasten seat belts into Japanese. Most of the passengers spoke only Japanese."

In November 2000, An American A300 enroute from MIA to Port Au Prince encountered severe turbulence that caused a passenger's death.

This is exactly why we are instructed to keep our seat belts fastened even when the sign is off.
 
as739x
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RE: Wow Turbulence Can Kill!

Mon Jan 03, 2005 1:38 pm

Severe turulence is loss of control. If I remember correctly another UA 747 hit it as well after leaving NRT. About 1 year later w/ less injuries.

ASSFO
"Some pilots avoid storm cells and some play connect the dots!"
 
ua777222
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RE: Wow Turbulence Can Kill!

Mon Jan 03, 2005 1:50 pm

Is it me or are pacific flights more bound to hit hard turbulence? I (have told this story many times on a.net) was flying home (HKG-SFO) and about 3 hours into the flight the capt. came over the PA, in a semi-frantic voice, for all passengers and crew to stop the meal service and strap in. I was worried b/c on CH. 9 there was talk of actually diverting to HNL or to fly a more northern route (A company 744 was just a few a head of us and had hit the turbulence first). In the end a few people wore their dinner and our caption objected to diverting and just flew wayyyyyy north and then down the coast. Took about another hour.

I too heard of that IB incident but can't recall where or when it happened though it was on a newer jet (going to guess 346) and was pretty recent.

Thanks for the great posts!

UA777222
"It wasn't raining when Noah built the ark."
 
EMBQA
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RE: Wow Turbulence Can Kill!

Mon Jan 03, 2005 1:53 pm

OOh yea it can. Some where in Europe a few years back all the passangers on a bizjet where killed when the aircraft hit turbulance.

*update*..I knew there was a photo....

View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Jean-Luc Altherr



[Edited 2005-01-03 06:00:42]
"It's not the size of the dog in the fight, but the size of the fight in the dog"
 
ATL2CDG
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RE: Wow Turbulence Can Kill!

Mon Jan 03, 2005 2:00 pm

And these incidents are just a few examples of the MANY reasons why passengers should always observe and comply with the fasten seatbelt sign AND keep seatbelts fastened all at times when not immediately out of one's seat.

Just a friendly reminder from your inflight safety/security/service professionals worldwide.
Ignorantia juris neminem excusat.
 
ual777contrail
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RE: Wow Turbulence Can Kill!

Mon Jan 03, 2005 2:03 pm

UAL had a 747 enroute to HKG via ORD few years back that encountered severe turbulence and had to land somewhere in Canada. Severe turbulence was to blame, and nobody was hurt.

I do remember the story you write of. I was working a flight and the newsreal came across that a UAL 47 hit clear air turbulence and 1 pax was killed, hit the ceiling after the aircraft dropped 2000 feet I believe it was. Several F/A's were hurt as well, returned to NRT.


UAL 777 CONTRAIL
 
brink777
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RE: Wow Turbulence Can Kill!

Mon Jan 03, 2005 4:35 pm

somone actually video tapped some of it I think they showed it on the dsc channel does anybody have a link possibly!
 
Whisperliner
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RE: Wow Turbulence Can Kill!

Mon Jan 03, 2005 5:35 pm

just wondering, but regarding the story on the business jet- how did all the passengers get killed? were they not buckled in? perhaps that is why the crew was ok?
 
N867BX
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RE: Wow Turbulence Can Kill!

Mon Jan 03, 2005 6:11 pm

I was flying TWA stl-mia in 1999. I was extremely tired and drifted off to sleep shortly after receiving a Coke. I awoke to the guy next to me nudgeing me and telling me that I might want to hold onto my beverage. Before I could grab the glass, my Coke was literally bouncing off the ceiling and splattered the three of us in our row of seats. No FA'S were around to help clean up as they must have been warned to be seated b4 the rough stuff. I am also certain (although I was asleep) that the pilots warned the fa's and pax of the rough air ahead. My hips were a bit sore from the seatbelt. It was a short amount of rough air, but I am certain anyone not belted in would have been seriously injured or killed.
 
CO 757-300
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RE: Wow Turbulence Can Kill!

Mon Jan 03, 2005 6:26 pm

i'd like to see that video link too
 
SFORunner
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RE: Wow Turbulence Can Kill!

Mon Jan 03, 2005 6:32 pm

Article:

http://www.cnn.com/WORLD/9712/28/japan.turbulence.update/

Video:

http://www.cnn.com/WORLD/9712/28/japan.turbulence.update/united.nhk.11.320.mov

In the video, you can see someone walking around with a piece of the bulkhead...  Wow!
 
IBERIA747
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RE: Wow Turbulence Can Kill!

Mon Jan 03, 2005 7:43 pm

About the IB A340 incident, it happened during initial descent to Lima, Perú. The A340 was descending while crossing a thunderstorm area over the Peruvian andes when it was caught by severe turbulence. According to passengers it was really bad, however and despite what was posted above there were no fatalities, only some injured passengers that were not using their seatbelts when it happened and a couple of cabin crew members. The aircraft was an A340-300.

There was another IB-aircraft incident with severe turbulence. This time it was a B747-200 near the Canary Islands while flying from Buenos Aires to Madrid. Things had been pretty rough for a while and everyone on board was with their seatbelts fastened...but there's always one who doesn't understand about rules, and a 60-year old English woman decided to go to the lavatory under those conditions. The result was that she was thrown against the cabin ceiling and the Captain had to make an emergency landing at Las Palmas de Gran Canaria and request medical attention for that passenger...she had a severe neck injury and was on a wheelchair for a long time after that (not sure if still is).

Both things happened last year.

And finally there was a Lufthansa A343 that was also hit by severe turbulence while cruising over the US on its way to somewhere in Texas. There even was a thread here about it. The topic was something like "LH A343 (or what's left of it) lands after being hit by turbulence".
¡¡VIVA ESPAÑA!!
 
SAS-A321
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RE: Wow Turbulence Can Kill!

Mon Jan 03, 2005 7:56 pm

That is why - Always keep your seat belt on while seated!
It's Scandinavian
 
airsicknessbag
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RE: Wow Turbulence Can Kill!

Mon Jan 03, 2005 10:43 pm


http://aviation-safety.net/database/1997/971228-0.htm

As you can see, the a/c was even written off due to this accident.


View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Frank C. Duarte Jr.



Daniel
 
ILSApproach
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RE: Wow Turbulence Can Kill!

Tue Jan 04, 2005 4:39 am

My seatbelt ALWAYS fastened the whole flight...................I have witnessed people without them come out of their seats and hit their heads on overhead!

OUCH.................good way to snap your neck quickly!!!!

But I do love the rides from turbulence!!!

Mike @ MSP
 
madjones
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RE: Wow Turbulence Can Kill!

Tue Jan 04, 2005 4:50 am

http://www.ainonline.com/issues/07_00/july_struggle_6.html

This link describes the VERY tragic Falcon flight.

Madjones
CYYC
 
Luv767s
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RE: Wow Turbulence Can Kill!

Tue Jan 04, 2005 4:58 am

This is very interesting to me since I just flew NRT-SFO on Jan 1st. We had such horrible turbulence, it was scary. Stuff was falling and crashing around. The captain got on several times to tell everyone to sit down and the flight attendants looked visibly worried, and I heard from one that it was really bad. The turbulence was really violent with lots of drops and not so much shaking back and forth.
-"...never have I been a blue calm sea, I have always been a storm"
 
Newark777
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RE: Wow Turbulence Can Kill!

Tue Jan 04, 2005 5:07 am

Has anyone read the book "Airframe" by Michael Crichton? It describes an incident like the ones described above (fiction, of course), and follows the investigation afterward. I read the book before I really got into airplanes, so I'm not sure if it is entirely accurate, but he seemed to know what he was talking about. Anyway, it a good read.

Here's the link to the book on Amazon:
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0345402871/qid=1104782618/sr=8-1/ref=pd_csp_1/102-9403403-0314511?v=glance&s=books&n=507846

Harry
Why grab a Heine when you can grab a Busch?
 
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Starlionblue
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RE: Wow Turbulence Can Kill!

Tue Jan 04, 2005 5:07 am

http://www.ainonline.com/issues/07_00/july_struggle_6.html

This link describes the VERY tragic Falcon flight.

Madjones
CYYC


Having read that it sounds as if the pilot didn't know what he was doing. PIO has been the cause of a few accidents, including one with the SAAB Gripen and one with the F-22 Raptor. Michael Crichton's "Airframe" also describes such an accident.
"There are no stupid questions, but there are a lot of inquisitive idiots." - John Ringo
 
BAtripleseven
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RE: Wow Turbulence Can Kill!

Tue Jan 04, 2005 5:57 am

wow. Scary,,, i remember hearing about the UA incident
 
ANNOYEDFA
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RE: Wow Turbulence Can Kill!

Tue Jan 04, 2005 6:09 am

This has happened once on one of my flights it was about a 1 hour flight from some town in Texas over to IAH.... Just as I locked in the bar cart it felt like someone put their hand on the plane and shook it rapidly up and down. The locked carts lifed and hit the small space where they are locked in. I just grabbed a wall and the ceiling and watched everyones drink bounce up then back on them. It was completely unexpected. Also a CO flight coming up from Mexico about a year ago had to call for medical assistance for the flight attendants due to the same type of situation.
"TWA... One Mission, Yours."
 
ua777222
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RE: Wow Turbulence Can Kill!

Tue Jan 04, 2005 6:21 am

In reference to the seat-belt awareness comments.

On a flight from FRA to LAX the pilot for some reason or another had to correct at the very last minute and pitched the nose up yet turned right to a point where the spoilers on the right were deployed. I forgot what degree has to be turned before this happens. In the end 2 first class passengers weren't wearing their seatbelts and flew forward into the seats infront of them. This caused about a half an hour delay at the gate to deplane the a/c due to medical services. 3-4 tv's in the economy cabin came off completely and a few panels were loosened. I could tell it was unexpected due to the f/a's shocked look.

Thanks again!

UA777222

And remember that like a car a plane can crash, hit hard, and can cause serious damage to people if they are not properly strapped in.
"It wasn't raining when Noah built the ark."
 
britannia
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RE: Wow Turbulence Can Kill!

Tue Jan 04, 2005 6:29 am

In the "old" days when propeller aircraft operated flight to WSSS Singapore turbulence would make the aircraft lose 5000ft sometimes! Not very nice at all.

Iain
 
JrMafia90
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RE: Wow Turbulence Can Kill!

Tue Jan 04, 2005 6:48 am

Can we clarify how they die, my friend they die because there is a hole in the plane (I have no clue how he thinks that), but don't the people die because they fly out of there seats and hit the ceiling or a wall next to them? How do they die?
 
ua777222
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RE: Wow Turbulence Can Kill!

Tue Jan 04, 2005 6:50 am

My mother has a co-worker who owns a Bonanza and she was told that they were flying from Palm Beach to their aviation community in Northern California and that they hit turbulence so bad that they would loose 1,000's of feet in a matter of just a few short seconds and that their dog that was in the back hit the sides of the a/c a few times. They opted to divert to a local airport for the day to wait for the conditions to get better but that whey they returned to the a/c the dog would not get back in b/c it was so freaked out of getting hurt.

Another story that my the same pilot actually told me was that he was on approach to an aiport and that a 737 had landed just before but that they didn't give enough space and got caught in their jetstrem and caused them to loose total control of the a/c and that he himself, an ex-AA pilot, was afraid that he would not be able to recover the aircraft from its spin.

Thanks again.

UA777222
"It wasn't raining when Noah built the ark."
 
fspilot747
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RE: Wow Turbulence Can Kill!

Tue Jan 04, 2005 9:16 am

" got caught in their jetstrem "

..Wake turbulence
 
Newark777
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RE: Wow Turbulence Can Kill!

Tue Jan 04, 2005 9:22 am

Can we clarify how they die, my friend they die because there is a hole in the plane (I have no clue how he thinks that), but don't the people die because they fly out of there seats and hit the ceiling or a wall next to them? How do they die?

Most are trauma wounds, as in they fly out of their seat and hit their head on something. If someone died because of a hole in the plane, there would be much more serious problems to deal with.

Harry
Why grab a Heine when you can grab a Busch?
 
whitehatter
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RE: Wow Turbulence Can Kill!

Tue Jan 04, 2005 9:33 am

Link to some notable incidents

http://www.airsafe.com/events/turb.htm

The Air France one was a particularly unpleasant incident, and the 744 coped admirably with extreme loads and jarring. There was considerable interior damage to the plane.
Lead me not into temptation, I can find my own way there...
 
RyanL1011
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RE: Wow Turbulence Can Kill!

Tue Jan 04, 2005 11:52 am

That United 747-100 was sure a beautiful aircraft. I am curious as to everyones worse turbulence expierence would be.

 
copter808
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RE: Wow Turbulence Can Kill!

Tue Jan 04, 2005 1:15 pm

There was an incident several years ago in Japan where extreme turbulence brought the airplane down. Think it may have been a 707 (NWA maybe?) It was a nice clear day and the pilot decided to give the passengers a view of Mt Fuji. The aircraft hit CAT, causing the tail to fail. As the nose pitched down the engines were torn off and both wings failed in a downward direction from the negative G's caused by the pitchdown! (Actually I think it was bump,tail,yaw, engines, then wings, in that order.)

Although I've had some flights across the Pacific with extended bouts of moderate chop, the worst single bump that I've experienced was on a flight from IAH--GIG. As it started getting bumpy, I picked up my water glass to prevent it from spilling. "Bump" and suddenly I was holding an empty glass! Never did find out where the water went.

 
Lono
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RE: Wow Turbulence Can Kill!

Tue Jan 04, 2005 1:30 pm

Flying into ANC is always interesting..
I remember being on final once when a F/A was walking back to her seat after cleaning up... we hit a pocket and she went airborne... she bounced on the ceiling a couple of times and I caught her before she smashed her head on the seat arm rests.. and she wound up in my lap dazed but thankful that I pulled her away from the seats... "wow that has never happened to me before" she said...
Wally Bird Ruled the Skys!
 
trnswrld
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RE: Wow Turbulence Can Kill!

Tue Jan 04, 2005 3:35 pm

My mom (a TWA flight attendant of 28 years) was in the hospital after the DC-9 flew through a very bad hail storm. She ended up hitting the ceiling of the aircraft during turbulence and the aircraft suffered some significant damage. 1st layer of all cockpit windows were cracked as well.
This is one reason it drives me nuts when I am on a flight and see parents that dont make their children where the seatbelts. Only if they knew!
 
kalakaua
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RE: Wow Turbulence Can Kill!

Tue Jan 04, 2005 7:33 pm

Here's the story from the Honolulu Star Bulletin. One of the flight attendants was my chemistry teacher's husband...

http://starbulletin.com/97/12/29/news/story2.html
Gravity explains the motions of the planets, but it cannot explain who set the planets in motion.
 
barney captain
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RE: Wow Turbulence Can Kill!

Tue Jan 04, 2005 8:29 pm

" would loose 1,000's of feet in a matter of just a few short seconds....."

Fairly common comment but is in all actuality, aerodynamically impossible. I have no doubt that it may have felt like "1000's" of feet, but the reality is all together different.  Big grin
Southeast Of Disorder
 
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Buyantukhaa
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RE: Wow Turbulence Can Kill!

Tue Jan 04, 2005 10:47 pm

The Mt. Fuji accident to my knowledge was caused by a rotor - common phenomenon near mountains.
I scratch my head, therefore I am.
 
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Starlionblue
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RE: Wow Turbulence Can Kill!

Tue Jan 04, 2005 11:07 pm

This is one reason it drives me nuts when I am on a flight and see parents that dont make their children where the seatbelts. Only if they knew!

It's a Darwinian process... See it as evolution in action.
"There are no stupid questions, but there are a lot of inquisitive idiots." - John Ringo
 
iakobos
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RE: Wow Turbulence Can Kill!

Tue Jan 04, 2005 11:21 pm

EMBQA,

The caption about the Greek Falcon incident over Romania is totally wrong, and so is your post.

The cause has nothing to do with turbulence (with a "e"), nor even was it ever mentioned. The pilots claimed a/c malfunction, but it was clear from the start and proven that it was totally attributable to pilots (both of them) errors. (multiple and consecutive wrong AP settings, starting at the time the a/c initiated its descent towards Bucharest)
Both were Olympic Airways senior captains.

The jet was a government VIP transport. The pilots and some pax survived, some perfectly unhurt. The deputy Foreign Minister and 1 or 2 other persons were standing in the aisle when the events started.

The picture shows the a/c without tail and hor. stabilizer. This is not a result of the incident. The a/c flew "on its own" from Bucharest to Geneva.

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