Tan Flyr
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AA ORD MD-80 Long Hauls

Tue Jan 04, 2005 4:53 am

While checking AA.com for some new reservations I noticed a number of ORD-LAX round trip (and I understand to SFO also) flights scheduled with MD-80's later this winter and spring. What is the thinking on this? Taking a more modern 738 with IFE and better seats off a 4 hour flight and putting a MD-80 seems to be a bit of backward thinking and movement.

Can someone that works at AA enlighten us a bit on the reasoning for this?
I am AAdvantage Platinum and a Shareholder, and am not happy about this from either viewpoint unless there is some compelling reason I am not fathoming!

Any insights?


Thanks!
 
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Starlionblue
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RE: AA ORD MD-80 Long Hauls

Tue Jan 04, 2005 5:03 am

They don't have even close to as many 738s as M80s. It might simply be a question of aircraft availability. Besides the M80 has the range for it.

I've flown plenty of transcons with a stop in the AA M80s. It's really not that bad.
"There are no stupid questions, but there are a lot of inquisitive idiots." - John Ringo
 
quickmover
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RE: AA ORD MD-80 Long Hauls

Tue Jan 04, 2005 5:08 am

I thought I read somewhere that all of the 737-800s would be based out of MIA and ORD is all md80, 757 and wide bodys. I don't know about IFE, but without that, I'd much rather take the md80. Nothing special interior wise about a 737 except more middle seats.
 
TUGMASTER
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RE: AA ORD MD-80 Long Hauls

Tue Jan 04, 2005 5:10 am

Hi all,

As i understand it, ORD has been made into a Mad Dog hub as such, with all the B737-823's being moved south and based at MIA.
This i'm led to believe makes the operation run smoother and more efficient and as a shareholder (Tan flyr) you should be congratulating AA on trying to make your shares worth just a little bit more.

RGDS

Tugmaster
 
flyingbronco05
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RE: AA ORD MD-80 Long Hauls

Tue Jan 04, 2005 5:10 am

I thought I read somewhere that all of the 737-800s would be based out of MIA and ORD is all md80, 757 and wide bodys.

Nope. I flew a 737 from LAX-ORD on the way back from HNL.
Never Trust Your Fuel Gauge
 
ssides
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RE: AA ORD MD-80 Long Hauls

Tue Jan 04, 2005 5:15 am

I flew a 737 from LAX-ORD on the way back from HNL.

The point is that AA is preparing to remove all 738s from ORD routes. Arpey confirmed this in a recent WSJ article. Likewise, it is removing MD-80s from MIA.

This really is a good move by AA. Most business travelers prefer the MD-80 because (1) it's quieter, and (2) it has fewer middle seats. They could give a rat's ass about IFE. Hence, the MD-80s will be flying more business routes from ORD, while the 738 will be flying more leisure routes from MIA.

As a shareholder, this move looks good, because it will help streamline operations at ORD and MIA.
"Lose" is not spelled with two o's!!!!
 
JeffB
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RE: AA ORD MD-80 Long Hauls

Tue Jan 04, 2005 5:22 am

Ok, so MD 80's to ORD and 73H to MIA.. in the name of efficency. what about the big fish that is DFW? Just a mix of the two?
 
AAplatnumflier
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RE: AA ORD MD-80 Long Hauls

Tue Jan 04, 2005 5:54 am

Go to a share holders meeting and complain...I personally just avoid those flights
 
drerx7
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RE: AA ORD MD-80 Long Hauls

Tue Jan 04, 2005 6:01 am

Well--AA is going to test renting DigiPlayers similar to Alaska on those MD80s flights. I personally avoid AA for those reasons--long ass flight on an MD80 w/o IFE vs. IFE on a 737NG/320/757/widebody for the same price. No contest.
Third Coast born, means I'm Texas raised
 
kbmiflyer
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RE: AA ORD MD-80 Long Hauls

Tue Jan 04, 2005 6:08 am

Ok, so MD 80's to ORD and 73H to MIA.. in the name of efficency. what about the big fish that is DFW? Just a mix of the two?

For the most part you are right. Looking at AA's schedule for May, ORD gets no 738's at all. MIA gets no MD-80's at all (if you are wondering, all ORD - MIA flights are 757's).

DFW will have fewer 738's, but still use them on flights to LGA and LAX and a few other places.
 
ssides
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RE: AA ORD MD-80 Long Hauls

Tue Jan 04, 2005 6:23 am

Given DFW's size, there isn't a feasible way to completely eliminate an aircraft type from its flight banks.

I'm surprised at how many people avoid MD-80s simply because it has no IFE. Given the plane's range, it can't make a flight of much more than 3-4 hours. You can't last that long without a movie?
"Lose" is not spelled with two o's!!!!
 
jacobin777
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RE: AA ORD MD-80 Long Hauls

Tue Jan 04, 2005 6:26 am

from ORD-SFO route, if I can recall, they will add an extra MD-80 flight (would need to check up on it though), I was talking to an AA pilot yesterday at ORD, and there will be no more 738's out of ORD, they will be moved to MIA,DFW, or LAX...I remember this because she stated she would either have to retrain or move and she did not want to move to either cities, or LAX..

I was told it was for "simplicity".....

personally, though the MD-80's dont have IFE, I use my laptop to watch my movies, and I like the way the MD-80's fly anyway....

if they keep the same amount of flights with the MD-80's as they do with the 738's, then there will be a small dropoff in the amount of available seats.

they will still keep the 763 for the afternoon flight
"Up the Irons!"
 
sllevin
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RE: AA ORD MD-80 Long Hauls

Tue Jan 04, 2005 6:30 am

As others have said, as a business traveler, the last thing I worry about is IFE. Even if it's satellite feed...heck, I have digital TV at home, and it's really 500 channels of nothing -- it's only the Tivo that makes it useful.

The upside of the MD-80 is that there are fewer middle seats. As much as I like the 737 and A320's for wider seats up front, if I flew an airline where I expected to fly most domestic legs in coach, I'd rather be on an MD-80.

Steve
 
ba319-131
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RE: AA ORD MD-80 Long Hauls

Tue Jan 04, 2005 6:30 am

Ssides said:-

I'm surprised at how many people avoid MD-80s simply because it has no IFE. Given the plane's range, it can't make a flight of much more than 3-4 hours. You can't last that long without a movie?

Totally right,what is it with IFE? Don't people know how to read anymore?

I've flown AA ORD>LAX on an MD-80 before,nice flight.

On my last 4 longhaul flights, HEL>PEK,PEK>HEL,LGW>PHL & PHL>LGW I never even switched on the PTV's,my laptop and a good book all the way.



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D950
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RE: AA ORD MD-80 Long Hauls

Tue Jan 04, 2005 6:31 am

Seems like these would have been perfect routes for the MD90's (which had excellent IFE) that AA gave back and are sitting in the desert. Maybe they could lease them back cheap!!
Resting on your laurels is a synonym for flirting with disaster
 
ssides
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RE: AA ORD MD-80 Long Hauls

Tue Jan 04, 2005 6:36 am

On my last 4 longhaul flights, HEL>PEK,PEK>HEL,LGW>PHL & PHL>LGW I never even switched on the PTV's,my laptop and a good book all the way.

Right on! What is it with kids these days? Granted, when I'm flying DFW-LGW or DFW-FRA, I like having a movie to watch in my seat. But when I'm making a short hop to DCA or ORD, I could care less -- give me a magazine or a little work to do, or I'll just take a nap!

IFE is great on long-haul flights, but judging an airline based on its domestic entertainment options is a bit infantile, if you ask me.
"Lose" is not spelled with two o's!!!!
 
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Starlionblue
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RE: AA ORD MD-80 Long Hauls

Tue Jan 04, 2005 6:37 am

IFE for me = My laptop. 6-7 hours of battery life while watching the movies I want to watch, not the ones chose by the airline, on a 14.1" monitor with better sound.
"There are no stupid questions, but there are a lot of inquisitive idiots." - John Ringo
 
drerx7
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RE: AA ORD MD-80 Long Hauls

Tue Jan 04, 2005 6:46 am

Like I said before--if for the SAME COST IFE vs. no IFE MD80s the choice is made. Its not like AA has an exceptional product anyway. Either way its a moot point--given my location there are other carriers that service me better anyway (carriers with which I'm a frequent flyer). If I lived in Dallas or Chicago then I probably would fly on AA MD80s regardless of IFE--but change planes at DFW or ORD for no IFE and mediocre service--I'll leave that to you guys.

[Edited 2005-01-03 23:01:39]
Third Coast born, means I'm Texas raised
 
deltairlines
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RE: AA ORD MD-80 Long Hauls

Tue Jan 04, 2005 6:58 am

Put me in the "I don't care about IFE" camp. I can't honestly remember the last time I used an airline's IFE...it had to be sometime in the 1990s though. I've got a DVD player on my laptop, plus a few games, that can keep me occupied for much time. And I also love to read the newspaper and magazines on flights (if you consider reading the inflight magazine IFE provided by the airline, then I do read that, but that's it). Plus, quite frequently, I have work to do on planes, and the plane is a quite convinient place to do it.

Jeff
 
moman
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RE: AA ORD MD-80 Long Hauls

Tue Jan 04, 2005 7:32 am

People don't know how to entertain themselves anymore. I prefer the MD80 because it is quiet (as noted above), is comfortable (as noted above), and I don't have any IFE distracting me. I also believe that IFE caters to the crowd that I want to avoid (kids, families).

I'd prefer to fly a MD80 and sit in 9A cross country as any other jet. Sounds like AA is doing a very smart thing here. Now if they would only buy some new 717s....(how about a 717-300!  Smile)

Moman

[Edited 2005-01-03 23:32:39]
AA Platinum Member - American Airlines Forever
 
Tan Flyr
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RE: AA ORD MD-80 Long Hauls

Tue Jan 04, 2005 7:36 am

OK Guys..thanks for the insight. Simplicity for the sake of being more efficient makes great sense to me as a shareholder. Concentrate spare parts, crews, etc of almost all one type at one major hub if possible.

My remarks about IFE stemmed more from comments made here by many of the other members over time the last few years.."Oh, I avoid MD-80's (or whatever aircraft or airline)because they have no IFE". My thought was that AA might be driving customers to the competition. AA needs every pax it can put into a seat.

As for myself, as I have stated on this forum in the past, I visit the used bookstore near me and have a few used paperbacks to read stashed in my briefcase. I enjoy the time w/o TV.
I agree with many of you, on a 3-4 hr flight I could care less about IFE.

I use the DFW-FAT nonstops as often as I can, however on several of these trips schedule requirements ( and destinations) at both ends look to require me to use a connection via ORD & LAX to & from FAT.

Thanks tho on the insight about simplicity..guess the New Years wine has not totally worn off!LOL!

Best to all in 2005 ..and hopefully all carries return to profitability!
 
AASTEW
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RE: AA ORD MD-80 Long Hauls

Tue Jan 04, 2005 8:23 am

Tan Flyer,

Your basically saying carriers with no IFE lose out compared to those with IFE. Why is FL and WN so successful against the carriers with IFE on the same route? People in this country just care about price! They don't care about food, movies, or airplane.

Yes passengers enjoy IFE, but trust me that's not the deciding factor when choosing a flight for the US traveller. Price is!

Also, don't get on NWA domestically, IFE is non existent. But good ole NWA is holding it's own.
 
aa61hvy
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RE: AA ORD MD-80 Long Hauls

Tue Jan 04, 2005 8:26 am

For a side reference I'm on AA to Cabo in March from ORD. 1,807mi 4hrs 45 mins. I'm not looking forward to that.. in an MD80
Go big or go home
 
ANCFlyer
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RE: AA ORD MD-80 Long Hauls

Tue Jan 04, 2005 8:52 am

Could care less about IFE . . . Toshiba laptop is my IFE. And/or a decent novel. Only 'real' downtime is in the air. Less middle seats (none in "F"  Smile/happy/getting dizzy) and very quiet up front.

Hey, as an aside . . . remember the thread about removing the nasty drooled on pillows form AAs MD80s . . . because, what the hell, they're all short/medium haul right!?

Haa - saw that one coming . . .
FOR THOSE THAT FOUGHT FOR IT, FREEDOM HAS A FLAVOR THE PROTECTED WILL NEVER KNOW OR UNDERSTAND
 
jacobin777
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RE: AA ORD MD-80 Long Hauls

Tue Jan 04, 2005 9:32 am

Aa61hvy.....the ORD-SFO flight is 1896nm, and ORD-SJC is 1829nm (which is the plane AA uses right now) and those are not a problem at all for the MD-80's, so I wouldn't be too concerned about your flight
"Up the Irons!"
 
Scott4AA
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RE: AA ORD MD-80 Long Hauls

Tue Jan 04, 2005 10:08 am

It is interesting to note the large percentage of M80 flights AA will have out of ORD. Here is a rough breakdown of mainline departures for Apr 4 2005. (I did this quickly so there might be some errors)

24 daily 757s
10 daily 763s
8 daily 777s
230 daily M80s

Total: 272
American Airlines - We Know Why You Fly
 
September11
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RE: AA ORD MD-80 Long Hauls

Tue Jan 04, 2005 11:11 am

M80 is like a business jet, for the most part
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ckfred
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RE: AA ORD MD-80 Long Hauls

Tue Jan 04, 2005 1:34 pm

First, I don't have a laptop, and I don't want one. I still like to write on legal pads.

Second, I like having audio to drown out the engines. I do bring CDs, to put in the CD player of the rental car. But my Walkman broke years ago.

Third, the overhead bins on the 737 are slightly bigger. I've seen a lot of people gripe at ORD that their bags fit into the bins on the 737/757/767 flight into ORD, but that they won't fit into the bins on MD-80s.

Fourth, I have a toddler, so I don't get to see movies until they come out on video. So regardless of the title, I will watch a movie on a plane, since it's ahead of the video release.

Fifth, my understanding is that the first-class galley on the 737 is bigger than the galley on the MD-80. Having flown in first on the MD-80, I have never had a multi-course meal. It all comes out on one tray. On the 737 and 757, the meal comes out first with the salad, then the entree, then the make-your-own sundae.

So, if AAdvantage Gold, Platinum, and Executive Platinum flyers find a lover level of food service in first on long-haul flights, they just might decide to try UA's first-class service.

By the way, I'm an AMR shareholder, and I'm getting fed up with all of these cost cuts. A very smart and successful businessman once told me that he made money by spending money, often when he really didn't have any spare cash. AA ought to quit squeezing every last cent of cost and try what AS and HP have done, and DL is about to do; simplify the fare structure. That way, people who book at the last minute don't feel gouged, and leisure flyers don't spend hours on the internet trying to find a cheap price.

In other words, make the product more appealing, so that AA can get more traffic and revenue.
 
roseflyer
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RE: AA ORD MD-80 Long Hauls

Tue Jan 04, 2005 1:35 pm

While I don't mind shorter flights without IFE, I am the type of person that cannot just read for 4+ hours. It is nice to have multiple distractions on the plane to pass the time. For the same price (which is a very common occurrence) I would fly UA over AA or NW across the country because of IFE. The MD-80s are quieter due to the engine placement, but if you actually look at the decibels of noise in the first class cabin between an A320 and MD-80, the noise level is about the same. The MD-80s have horrible wind noise problems. They are silent on take off, but at 500mph, they get just as loud as planes with wing mounted engines. Also many of the the MD-80s have small overhead compartments, which is really annoying for business travelers that have large suitcases and laptop cases. Overall the MD-80 is a toss up. It has the benefit of a perceived quieter cabin and 5 abreast seating, but loses in passenger space (in first class due to narrower cabin), storage space and IFE. With the loss of MRTC, there is really nothing special about MD-80 flights. DigE players will help solve one drawback, and having expanded overhead compartments could help another.

To all of those that argue that IFE is useless; IFE does add more revenue because if just one person buys a UA seat vs a AA seat on SEA-ORD because of IFE then AA did lose revenue. The big question is whether or not the small revenue benefit of having IFE outweighs its costs of installation, maintenance and weight penalties. NW and AA feel that it is not necessary for the clientele that they want.

Adding IFE does nothing to the person that reads a book, but it does help others. It is not like people depend on it, but some people (including me) appreciate it as another distraction on an otherwise boring flight. Listening to wind blow and looking out a window or reading a book for 4 hours isn't perfect for everyone. And airlines can benefit from catering to everyone, not the specific group that enjoys reading. There is no reason to complain about it being a distraction, since for most people, distractions is what they want on an airplane because for most it is boring. The occasional good movie shown can make a flight go by better. Of course CBS Eye on American and other stupid programs that are just add placements don't really serve a purpose, but overall IFE does generate some revenue, just usually not enough in a price sensitive market. I

f JetBlue can gain passengers by having such a good IFE system (and of course they have) then AA loses out in that possible situation because JetBlue offers a more desirable product for some. In an overly competitive market, you want to have a good product because the major airlines often match each other's prices, so a good product does make a difference. I am willing to be that most people would fly BA over Ryanair if the fares were the same because of product differentiation. If AA only wants business travelers that like to read books or own laptops, then that is fine for them, but I am willing to bet that they are not willing to alienate so many people just because they can-they are doing it because they have judged that adding IFE is too expensive to justify it.
If you have never designed an airplane part before, let the real designers do the work!
 
DfwRevolution
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RE: AA ORD MD-80 Long Hauls

Tue Jan 04, 2005 1:45 pm

I'm an AMR shareholder, and I'm getting fed up with all of these cost cuts.,

What they streamline their opperations and that's something to object to from a shareholder standpoint?

AA ought to quit squeezing every last cent of cost

And rationalizing their opperations is a radical departure from that logic?

In other words, make the product more appealing, so that AA can get more traffic and revenue.

No objections here... but the MD-80/737 reallocation is still a good move to decrease opperational overhead.

For a side reference I'm on AA to Cabo in March from ORD. 1,807mi 4hrs 45 mins. I'm not looking forward to that.. in an MD80

Oh poor thing... going to Cabo on the MD-80  Crying
 
aa777jr
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RE: AA ORD MD-80 Long Hauls

Tue Jan 04, 2005 2:10 pm

touche DFWRevolution, all points well made. AA is reorganizing its hardware rightly so. They save a ton of money using majority of 738 at MIA and S80 at ORD. DFW will continue to see both, especially with the new terminal opening, and a increase in connections domestically. AA can use it's 738 for it's Caribbean and Latin America routes, and it makes sense economically to save them. They are just cleaning up lose ends money wise and trying to turn a profit again.

Regards,
AA777jr
A liberal is a man who is right most of the time, but he's right too soon.
 
AAR90
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RE: AA ORD MD-80 Long Hauls

Tue Jan 04, 2005 3:42 pm

I thought I read somewhere that all of the 737-800s would be based out of MIA...

Uh...nope. SFO and ORD 738 crew bases are being closed and 738 flights to those locations limited or eliminated altogether. There is no plan to close LAX, DFW, BOS, DCA 738 bases (at this time).

This i'm led to believe makes the operation run smoother and more efficient...

Not sure about the "smoother" part of that statement, but definitely more efficient. Current estimates are running about $200 MILLION PER YEAR cost savings by making this one equipment realignment. That's up from the $25 M/yr. originally envisioned in the ORD "MD80 scheduling simplification" test program run this past summer. The original announcement coming out of that test program was the closing of SFO & ORD 738 pilot crew bases caught all of us not involved in the analysis by surprise (I thought it was an MD80 test), but a simple financial look at the reduction in reserve (on-call) pilots needed shows significant ($3-4 M/yr) savings.

I am AAdvantage Platinum and a Shareholder, and am not happy about this from either viewpoint unless there is some compelling reason I am not fathoming!

COSTS...COSTS...COSTS. Read the entire WSJ article. Arpy did a pretty good job of explaining AA's history in creating a large complex fleet of aircraft (specialized to maximize revenue in different markets) and the major change in the airline industry in the past 10 or so years (cost is king and one of the best ways to reduce costs is to simplify your operations). AA has taken out $4+ BILLION in annual costs per year already and is projecting another $800+ MILLION in annual cost savings starting in 2005. Simplifying the operation is one of the most cost effective measures AA can do.

*NO CARRIER* -- A Naval Aviator's worst nightmare!
 
aa777jr
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RE: AA ORD MD-80 Long Hauls

Tue Jan 04, 2005 3:51 pm

Current estimates are running about $200 MILLION PER YEAR

there's your $$$ for that 7E7 order!

AA777jr
A liberal is a man who is right most of the time, but he's right too soon.
 
qqflyboy
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RE: AA ORD MD-80 Long Hauls

Tue Jan 04, 2005 5:12 pm

The 738 galley in first class is not bigger, in fact, it is smaller then the MD-80 galley. Each galley holds two half carts and three full carts, but the MD-80 has more counter space and more storage space outside of the carts. We can and do offer the deluxe meal flights when warranted on the MD-80. "Deluxe" meaning the salad served first, followed by the entre and then the made to order sundaes.

Now that the bins have been expanded on the -80s, suitcases can actually fit more easily in the MD-80 then the 738s. The hinges on the 738 bins get in the way of placing luggage in the bin; this is not a problem on the MD-80. The 738 bins are slightly taller, allowing an overstuffed roll-a-board to fit, but those aren't allowed anyway. If you can't fit the bag in an MD-80 bin, regardless of the aircraft you are actually on, the bag is larger then what's allowed and should be checked.

The new rentable entertainment device AA is currently testing should satisfy all those who need IFE to make a flight more enjoyable. As a matter of fact, those devices will give you unparalleled IFE. Not only does the device offer movies and sitcoms, it also offers newspapers updated daily and music.

The seats in coach on the MD-80s are actually wider then the 738, and, at one point, AA was looking at a new, slimmer armrest design to allow more hip space on the 738s. But that never happened. And, of course, there's half the middle seats on an -80 versus a 738.

As a crew member, the only real benefits the 738 has over the MD-80 is the 738 has more comfortable jumpseats and don't require a manual safety demo. But that's about it.
The views expressed are mine alone and do not necessarily reflect my employer’s views.
 
ssides
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RE: AA ORD MD-80 Long Hauls

Wed Jan 05, 2005 1:38 am

In other words, make the product more appealing, so that AA can get more traffic and revenue.

They've tried this, and the flying public has repeatedly stated that price is more important than amenities. MRTC is a perfect example. AA had a great product, but at the end of the day, discovered that passengers weren't willing to pay a premium to use it. Hence they were losing revenue because they couldn't get as much money out of each flight.

The same goes for IFE. Retrofitting MD-80s to have video or audio is enormously expensive, especially given that there are more than 300 of them in the fleet. Even if AA did this, people would still fly WN, B6, HP, if the price is lower.

I agree that AA needs to simplify its fare structure, and I think they will following the recent DL announcement. Their problem is primarily one of costs. While unions have given some concessions, costs are still higher than HP, B6, WN, etc. There aren't many places left to cut, and it's doubtful that employees will stand for much more. What AA really needs is for US and/or UA to go under, which will free up some capacity and give the industry a bit more pricing power.
"Lose" is not spelled with two o's!!!!
 
drerx7
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RE: AA ORD MD-80 Long Hauls

Wed Jan 05, 2005 1:51 am

Well use of the digiplayers will provide a cost effective way to add IFE to MD80s--it also shows that corporate brass at AA recognize that there is potentially enough demand for IFE on its MD80 fleet.
Third Coast born, means I'm Texas raised
 
gigneil
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RE: AA ORD MD-80 Long Hauls

Wed Jan 05, 2005 2:01 am

The reality is that AA is not a strong competitor to UA on those routes out of ORD.

UA hands AA their ass on the SFO, LAX routes and a lot of the other Western ones.

MIA and DFW, on the other hand, are very profitable for AA. Its the best use of their more expensive capital. MIA is a long way away from everything, also, so they need them for LAX, SFO, SJC, SAN flights as well as the Central American/Caribbean network.

Rationalizing costs makes sense.

N
 
roseflyer
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RE: AA ORD MD-80 Long Hauls

Wed Jan 05, 2005 3:07 am

Ssides, I fully agree that AA will not be able to charge a premium for offering IFE, but when the fares are the same price, it will help bring more passengers to AA, which would increase their load factor. I don't think AA really expects to earn premiums by offering DigE players, but the situation they don't want to get in is one where they have the same fare as UA out of ORD, but are perceived to have a lower quality product.

AA and the industry dictates what fares are charged, but if more people want to fly AA, then the planes could be more full at the same low fares, or AA cheap fares will be in higher demand which will cause their higher priced fares like full fare to be the only ones available for those that are dedicated to AA and fly with minimal advanced purchase. (Many corporate acconts will allow a person to fly on whatever carrier they chose, but just require that the lowest fare avaible be paid). A business traveler that is loyal to AA will pay whatever price the airline charges as the cheapest one offered at the time because they are often the type not to shop around, or are loyal due to the upgrades and frequent flyer perks. They might not splurge for a Y class fare 7 months ahead of time, but if they are booking 14 days a head of time, and the only fares are Y class, then they are likely to pay it even if UA had a B or M class fare aviable at a little less. Having people want to fly AA is a very good thing for the carrier. It WILL provide extra revenue, but the big question is: will this extra revenue offset the costs of the DigE players/IFE system?

Claiming that IFE has no affect on revenue is wrong. Just because most people search for the lowest fare and will go for whatever is cheaper, does not mean that offering a better product is not worth it. If even a small number of people go to AA over UA, then the load factor will go up. Even if it is by 0.1%, it is still a positive change. The question is: is the cost worth it to justify the expense? UA offers movies on every single flight from ORD to the west coast. UA thinks it is worth it, but NW thinks it isn't since they have no video entertainment on flights in the lower 48. What will AA decide?
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jsnww81
Posts: 2294
Joined: Mon Jan 28, 2002 3:29 am

RE: AA ORD MD-80 Long Hauls

Wed Jan 05, 2005 4:46 am

The MD80 really doesn't deserve all the vilification it's getting on this thread. Although a lot of passengers may be turned off by the "long thin tube" appearance of the cabin, the reality is that the MD80s are more comfortable than many of American's other types - wider seats, less middle seats, all the reasons that have already been given.

The days of legacy carriers putting widebodies on routes just because they're long-distance are over. If they can find a smaller bird with the performance and the economics to do it and add some precious value to the bottom line, they'll deploy it.

A little perspective - the vast majority of the flying public couldn't tell an MD80 from a 737 from a 767. Perhaps a small minority of Chicago fliers who claim to prefer widebody comfort will switch over to United, where they can ensconce themselves in all the IFE, elderly flight attendants and dual-aisle "splendor" they can handle. But they should watch out, as more and more A319s and A320s are creeping into United's midcon routes too...
 
planespotting
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RE: AA ORD MD-80 Long Hauls

Wed Jan 05, 2005 7:32 am

for $300 you can purchase an iPod, and put all of your music on that. put it in your pocket and the F/A will never know it's on from push back to roll out. I've listened to my iPod on every flight in the past year (around 50 flights) and i havent really been bored yet (except when i didn't charge it and the batteries ran out halfway between Chicago and Dallas. booo).
Do you like movies about gladiators?