Jalto27R
Topic Author
Posts: 841
Joined: Tue May 18, 2004 8:49 am

Aviation Schools And The Road To Becoming A Pilot.

Wed Jan 05, 2005 12:24 pm

Hi guys. I know there are alot of pilots in here, and alot of others that just know everything there is about this career. My biggest goal in life is to become a pilot, and to excel through the ranks of an airline because of my experience. The problem is there is no one around me that has gone through that experience who can give me advice on where to go. My big thing is to get w/e degrees are best for leading the pack of airline hopefuls. What are the best schools to get aviation degrees? What kind of costs will I experience getting all my qualifications? Finally, I ask, since I will graduate high school in 2008, and college, who knows when, will the airline industry have recovered so that it will be a viable job to support me? Thank you for any help, I greatly appreciate it.

Michael
 
Leezyjet
Posts: 3540
Joined: Sun Oct 14, 2001 7:26 am

RE: Aviation Schools And The Road To Becoming A Pilot.

Wed Jan 05, 2005 12:53 pm

2nd time I've posted this link tonight, in 2 seperate threads but here goes :-

http://www.pprune.org

Goto the "wannabe's" section in the forums and do a search. It's free to join too. All you might ever want to know about flying training and more can be found on that site.

 Smile
"She Rolls, 45 knots, 90, 135, nose comes up to 20 degrees, she's airborne - She flies, Concorde Flies"
 
penguinflies
Posts: 932
Joined: Thu Apr 06, 2000 12:00 pm

RE: Aviation Schools And The Road To Becoming A Pilot.

Wed Jan 05, 2005 12:54 pm

I just found out after spending $80k on a top aviation university that I could've done it for half that price at a community college in half the time. That being said, you will get a job that can support you, you just need to research and see what type of university/college will fit your personal needs.
 
Av8trxx
Posts: 632
Joined: Sun Nov 11, 2001 7:08 am

RE: Aviation Schools And The Road To Becoming A Pilot.

Wed Jan 05, 2005 1:30 pm

"My big thing is to get w/e degrees are best for leading the pack of airline hopefuls. What are the best schools to get aviation degrees? "

What you major in doesn't matter, just as long as you get a degree. Having an AV degree is by no means the key to getting hired. Many suggest getting a degree in something OTHER than aviation as you have someting to fall back on if you are ever furloughed during your career. I highly suggest getting your 2 year at a CC, then tranfer to a 4 year university to save money that you can put towards your flight training.

"What kind of costs will I experience getting all my qualifications?"

If you did them via a local flight school, expect about $40K. The degree, well that depends on where you go.

"Finally, I ask, since I will graduate high school in 2008, and college, who knows when, will the airline industry have recovered so that it will be a viable job to support me? " That's a crap shoot, no matter what year it is! As far as support, any regional F/O can barely support themselves on new hire pay. Keep this in mind while you acumulate debt in school. Do whatever you can to keep it to a minimum, $60K in student loans is hard to pay off when you don't make $20K/yr for a few years.

Since you are in the USA, go to this site (PPRUNE is predominantly European) -

http://www.jetcareers.com

You can also visit my pilot FAQ & careers site in my profile for info. Good luck.
 
Gnomon
Posts: 894
Joined: Thu Jun 03, 1999 12:38 pm

RE: Aviation Schools And The Road To Becoming A Pilot.

Wed Jan 05, 2005 1:38 pm

I second Av8trxx's post about getting a good bachelor's degree in anything OTHER THAN aviation. When I left a CMEI program last year for financial reasons, I thanked God I had a B.A. from a very good school to fall back on.

My recommendation: Put aviation on the backburner while you get a four-year degree, maybe at your state university, where a good degree doesn't cost an arm and both legs. Major in something useful like business or an engineering discipline (or a liberal arts major, like I did). Get your PPL, etc., from a local flight school. THEN do what you need to do to get on with an airline.

All my life, I thought I wanted to be an airline pilot, too. But strange, unforseeable things will happen. It's best to cover all your bases.
 
ordflyer
Posts: 498
Joined: Tue Aug 03, 2004 2:08 pm

RE: Aviation Schools And The Road To Becoming A Pilot.

Wed Jan 05, 2005 1:49 pm

Gnomon summarized my feelings as well!
It's impossible to predict what the future holds for the industry, but the best bet is to have a backup career. Up until last year I was majoring in aviation, but I kept hearing so many stories about pilots who were let go or furloughed without any backup job prospects. I finally decided that I needed to get a good bachelors degree in another field, and I'm on my way to a degree in business while my flight training (currently working in instrument) is being done on the side as I find time and money for it. Being a commercial pilot is still my ultimate goal, but I realize that it is still a way off in the distance and I need to be able to make a living if my dream job doesn't work out.
You will hear a lot of pro and con arguments for going to an "aviation university" but like Av8trxx I reccomend doing a few years at a community college (you will save a TON of $$ that can pay for your PPL at least) before transferring to a 4 year school to finish your degree and getting flight ratings on the side from an FBO or getting them after your degree by going to a flight academy.
 
CaptainTim
Posts: 378
Joined: Fri Dec 31, 2004 1:43 am

RE: Aviation Schools And The Road To Becoming A Pilot.

Wed Jan 05, 2005 2:58 pm

i'm a high school student as well graduating in 2006. i am planning to apply to Embry Riddle in Arizona or Florida, Purdue University Indiana and Ohio State
University

these universities all have a oncampus airport and have a fleet themselves. they also have a degree that majros in creating students into pilots where graduates will hold a commercial degree (minimum) they are quite costly of around $40,000 a year. but i think it might be worth it as you would graduate with about 200-300 hours.

check it out! they are respected universities

tim
Gulfstream Planeview Cockpit: "why have hundreds of buttons when a CCD does the same thing and more?"
 
Av8trxx
Posts: 632
Joined: Sun Nov 11, 2001 7:08 am

RE: Aviation Schools And The Road To Becoming A Pilot.

Wed Jan 05, 2005 3:56 pm

"they also have a degree that majros in creating students into pilots where graduates will hold a commercial degree (minimum) they are quite costly of around $40,000 a year. but i think it might be worth it as you would graduate with about 200-300 hours. "

True, ERAU is a highly respected name as an aviation university. However, the value of going there in the end is up for debate by many. Commercial degree? How about a 4 year degree with a commercial license. Worth it to graduate with a paltry 200-300 hours? Questionable. One could spend $40K, the cost of 12 months at ERAU (as you quote it) and get all their ratings and get the same amount of flight time in 18-24 months. A recent new hire at my airline attended ERAU. They said if they had to do it all over again, they would not. It was too expensive and they did not have enough flight time to get hired anywhere. They had to instruct or do some other job to build time just like everyone else who attended other, less expensive, schools after graduation. Since it appears you are from Honk Kong, perhaps you will get something else out of it. For those looking for a career in the USA, attending ERAU is much like getting a designer degree. Yes, the quality is very good but you are paying for the name. One could get the same quality elsewhere for less. Some have rich parents or scholarships to pay for a big name school aviation degree. That's great. If you do not, seriously take what their PR dept says with a grain of salt.
 
777STL
Posts: 2770
Joined: Mon Dec 13, 2004 8:22 am

RE: Aviation Schools And The Road To Becoming A Pilot.

Wed Jan 05, 2005 4:09 pm

ERAU is a good school but it's hardly the only way to go. You can get every bit as a good education at the local FBO for a fraction of ERAU will cost you. Plus if you go to a regular state school, you can get a degree in something other than aviation as a fallback. Look at it this way, if you get a degree in aviation science(professional pilot), the only thing you are qualified to be is a professional pilot. If the industry takes a dump again, you're could be out on the streets with a useless degree. And in reality, being from ERAU likely won't get you any farther ahead than your FBO counterparts in the hiring process.

There's really no magic bullet in the airline industry but networking is key. Once you start training, wherever that may be, network your butt off. You never know what it may get you somewhere down the line.

-77
PHX based
 
KDTWflyer
Posts: 786
Joined: Tue Jun 29, 2004 12:51 pm

RE: Aviation Schools And The Road To Becoming A Pilot.

Wed Jan 05, 2005 4:35 pm

Yeah, definitely go to a community college... I'm attending Oakland CC here about 30 miles N of DTW and the cost savings im experiencing will allow me to start training soon.
NW B744 B742 B753 B752 A333 A332 A320 A319 DC10 DC9 ARJ CRJ S340
 
mm320cap
Posts: 161
Joined: Wed Jul 14, 2004 12:35 pm

RE: Aviation Schools And The Road To Becoming A Pilot.

Wed Jan 05, 2005 4:55 pm

I'd like to defend ERAU for a second here if I might. It IS a lot of money. I think these days you are looking at about $100,000 for the full boat school and flying. However, if you compare that to some of the more expensive liberal arts colleges, it is all relative. I don't know what type of programs or internships ERAU offers anymore - when I was there, they were significant, and very valuable.

One thing that you will get at ERAU, and I'm assuming at other aviation programs at various Universities, is a different type of education. For example, one of my classes at Riddle was Electronic Nav and Flight Control Systems. Basically you learned about the FMC of a B767. Guess what? When I went to school at United on the 737-300, it was a total snap. (The FMC is very similar to the B767). There were many in my class that had a really hard time getting through the school. Not because they weren't good pilots (most flew F16's), but because they had never seen this type of stuff before. I made a mental note about how valuable my education was when it came time to really learn how to fly a large jet.

It is a cyclical industry, and I'm sure it will come back, but I have to be brutally honest. The job is changing FAST, and not for the better. The days of slogging through the regionals just hoping to make it to the majors are pretty much gone. I'd say that my working conditions at United are worse than most of the regionals, and the pay is not much better. In some cases, it's worse. Retirement? Gone. It's a tough, tough business. The people that don't fly for a living that will respond to this post by calling me underworked and overpaid; they haven't walked in my shoes. I still love the job, but it is a very tough career. Just be realistic with yourself about what you want out of it. If you still think it's for you, have fun, and WORK HARD. The better you do in college, the more opportunities you will have.
 
ILSApproach
Posts: 398
Joined: Fri Aug 27, 2004 3:59 am

RE: Aviation Schools And The Road To Becoming A Pilot.

Wed Jan 05, 2005 6:47 pm

How about this school........................Army, Navy, Air Force, Marines....................

the cheapest and what the hell can't make it as a pilot you always got money for school.
 
CaptainTim
Posts: 378
Joined: Fri Dec 31, 2004 1:43 am

RE: Aviation Schools And The Road To Becoming A Pilot.

Wed Jan 05, 2005 10:33 pm

Av8trxx yaeh i am from Hong Kong and i found that flying HKG itself just to get around 200-300 hours will cost more than USD$75,000 and thats only flying at a local FBO in HKG... so flying at ERAU/Purdue/OSU could be a better choice for me.. graduating with a degree

i do hope the aviation industry does turn around to a more positive future....

tim
Gulfstream Planeview Cockpit: "why have hundreds of buttons when a CCD does the same thing and more?"
 
MidnightMike
Posts: 2810
Joined: Thu Mar 06, 2003 10:07 am

RE: Aviation Schools And The Road To Becoming A Pilot.

Wed Jan 05, 2005 11:31 pm


Please refer to this website:
http://jetcareers.com

Several people are attending EARU or have attended in the past....
NO URLS in signature
 
wdleiser
Posts: 865
Joined: Thu Apr 22, 2004 9:32 am

RE: Aviation Schools And The Road To Becoming A Pilot.

Wed Jan 05, 2005 11:52 pm

Well my plan is to become an Airforce Cargo pilot for the C5 or C17, that would get me all that training to become a pilot for free. After I were to serve those 5years or so of service, then I want to become a Commercial pilot for United or Lufthansa or possibly Virgin. I want to fly the A380 or 744 those are my goals in life.
 
flymia
Posts: 6806
Joined: Thu Jun 14, 2001 6:33 am

RE: Aviation Schools And The Road To Becoming A Pilot.

Thu Jan 06, 2005 12:32 am

Dont have much time since I am in school right now. I am in the same shoes as you I graduate high School in 2007. I hope to start PPL trainning soon and go to college like Purdue UND to gain hours and ratings. Than I will become a CFI and hopefully do some charter flying for a FBO one day and apply for a regional. It helps to know people in the industry too. Or if I dont get enough rating in college I hope to join Tab Express or DCA ATP flight school something like that.

Wdleiser: As for you. I think it is 8 or 10 years of service now in the Air Force. And you dont have complete control on what planes you fly in the Air Force. But you have somewhat of a say I think. But I would love to do that to. Fly an E-3 or C5 or C17. That would be great. But unless you have dual citizentship you cant fly for an European Airline like Virgin or LU. If you can you will still need to convert all your licenses to European licenses. But getting a job in Europe is easier after you get all the Euro ratings and licenses.
"It was just four of us on the flight deck, trying to do our job" (Captain Al Haynes)
 
Av8trxx
Posts: 632
Joined: Sun Nov 11, 2001 7:08 am

RE: Aviation Schools And The Road To Becoming A Pilot.

Thu Jan 06, 2005 4:18 am

"I'd like to defend ERAU for a second here if I might. It IS a lot of money. I think these days you are looking at about $100,000 for the full boat school and flying. One thing that you will get at ERAU...is a different type of education."

I too agree that they have a different, and often more interesting, curriculum. That is another reason why many chose to go to an aviation U., they want classes they are interested in taking. I was no exception. I wanted classes about my favorite subject- airplanes! That's why I went there. However, I chose the more affordable route by doing their Extended Campus Program after going to a junior college and did all my ratings on the side. Still got my ERAU degree yet I paid a third less money than anyone who went to campus for my education & ratings. Starting this career with zero debt sure does make live more livable on this terrible pay. In this day & age, I wouldn't recommend campus, but the Extended program is a great value.
 
Jalto27R
Topic Author
Posts: 841
Joined: Tue May 18, 2004 8:49 am

RE: Aviation Schools And The Road To Becoming A Pilot.

Thu Jan 06, 2005 5:55 am

I really appreciate all the responses. The one thing I don't know about is a CC, as my family has a heritage of attending lavish colleges and me doing it may not be to their approval. For awhile I was into the AF, but the problem is that you come out at age 30 and have to start at the bottom of the ladder. If anyone knows any good flight schools in the Delaware Valley, let me know. Yet again, I greatly appreciate the advice.

Michael
 
kalakaua
Posts: 1429
Joined: Tue Jan 27, 2004 5:23 pm

RE: Aviation Schools And The Road To Becoming A Pilot.

Thu Jan 06, 2005 6:06 am

This is all I can say... This new program will speak for itself.

http://www.erau.edu/capt/
Gravity explains the motions of the planets, but it cannot explain who set the planets in motion.
 
Jalto27R
Topic Author
Posts: 841
Joined: Tue May 18, 2004 8:49 am

RE: Aviation Schools And The Road To Becoming A Pilot.

Thu Jan 06, 2005 6:13 am

From what I have heard, ERAU can be a b*tch. This is due to the volume of students vs. the amount of aircraft and trainors available to make this course a success. Plus, the school costs a fortune.
 
Av8trxx
Posts: 632
Joined: Sun Nov 11, 2001 7:08 am

RE: Erau Capt

Thu Jan 06, 2005 6:39 am

"This is all I can say... This new program will speak for itself."
http://www.erau.edu/capt

Apparently is it, and NOT in a good way......

"UPDATE-- Dec 8, 2004 Depositions for lawsuit against ERAU CAPT Program begin in late Jan. Here we are 17 months in to the CAPT program and they have only produced 8 grads and 0 pilot jobs. CAPT is failing its students. CAPT claims on its website under Purpose Specific Training that quote: "CAPT graduates are ready for the real world of the airlines immediately upon graduation. As a result, CAPT graduates are sought after by airlines across the country.” Really? Then why are the 8 CAPT grads still unemployed pilots? Even the ones that graduated 6 months ago. The two grads that interviewed CAPT says Quote” Employment paperwork is now being completed for the graduates to begin their training. “ just is not true. Neither grad is working in the aviation industry as a paid pilot today. Integrity is not a value ERAU CAPT possesses."

from http://www.captiscrap.com/

Here's more-
http://jetcareers.com/forums/showflat.php?Cat=&Number=84693&page=0&view=collapsed&sb=5&o=&fpart=3#Post220909

http://forums.flightinfo.com/showthread.php?t=42974&highlight=ERAU+CAPT

At $85K/student they have already taken in four million dollars and have yet to sucessfully place graduates, even though several should have finished last year. Common, who is going to hire a 300 hour pilot just cause they have a type rating??? Without experience to back it up, the type isn't worth diddly squat to an employer.


[Edited 2005-01-05 22:58:11]
 
kalakaua
Posts: 1429
Joined: Tue Jan 27, 2004 5:23 pm

RE: Aviation Schools And The Road To Becoming A Pilot.

Thu Jan 06, 2005 9:21 am

I didn't know that CAPT is crap?! It's new, and hopefully ERAU will fix these bugs. Those students took the risk as guinea pigs, and ERAU failed. But we'll just have to wait and see in the long run...
Gravity explains the motions of the planets, but it cannot explain who set the planets in motion.
 
pilotpip
Posts: 2820
Joined: Fri Sep 19, 2003 3:26 pm

RE: Aviation Schools And The Road To Becoming A Pilot.

Thu Jan 06, 2005 12:16 pm

Any of those pay to work programs are crap. Many airlines won't consider hiring you knowing that you went this route. Also, if you look at the fine print on many of them the only guarantee you receive is an interview with the flight school, not an airline. Most majors now require a four year degree for consideration and it's almost a necessity to be competitive. There are much less expensive ways to go and you won't be paying some company to work for them. Many FBOs are turning to Part 141 curriculums now for insurance reasons so you can get a very professional, structured training program just like you would at an expensive flight school.

I'm at Parks College, part of St. Louis University. I'm only majoring in Aviation but I know quite a few people that double majored, getting a degree in Aeronautics and Business Management. I'm not going to plug my school on here that much but if you, or anybody on this thread, have questions Email me. There are pros and cons to any program so look at a bunch of them before you decide what's best for you. I looked at five schools, and ended up applying to three. I was accepted at all of these and at the time Parks was right for me.
DMI
 
CaptainTim
Posts: 378
Joined: Fri Dec 31, 2004 1:43 am

RE: Aviation Schools And The Road To Becoming A Pilot.

Thu Jan 06, 2005 1:06 pm

Wdleiser i think AF is a terrible choice right now.. i talked to many pilots frequently wehn i fly United in and out of HKG.. since i fly out of HKG, most of the planes are large Heavys.. 747s 777 etc. so these guys are quite old and experienced..... 60% are from the AF

however, they said that when they were in.. they got lots of horus.. but now.. its not~ thers always a CPT with you and you just get to sit around and watch.. and do some frequency tunings etc. you're like a second officer.. also... you have to be enlisted for 8-10 years.. its not worth tthe work i say~ and i don't think u'll get too many hours out of it

(correct me if i'm wrong please)
tim
Gulfstream Planeview Cockpit: "why have hundreds of buttons when a CCD does the same thing and more?"
 
jcs17
Posts: 7376
Joined: Mon Jun 18, 2001 11:13 am

RE: Aviation Schools And The Road To Becoming A Pilot.

Fri Jan 07, 2005 4:33 am

A degree from ERAU isn't even close to worth the money you'll end up spending. You'll end up with a degree from an AERONAUTICAL university, which will limit your career choices if you end up outside the aviation field. If you're going to get a degree in professional flight, I'd strongly recommend going to conventional university like UND. Unlike a degree from ERAU, a pro. flight degree from a non-aviation school will take you further in both the aviation and non-aviation fields. Also, you have to remember that ERAU won't provide you with a traditional college atmosphere--a positive or negative, I guess, depending on your opinion. For me, that was a huge negative. Going to a traditional college before transferring to UND, I really liked the college atmosphere--you know, where it's not 85% men, the fraternity I joined, and the friends I made. I'll put this bluntly, if you don't mind spending four years around only aviation nerds (as a girl who went to ERAU in the sorority at UND next to me put it), then ERAU is probably the place for you.

Also, at UND, you could always just live there year round and claim residency in the state thus lowering your tuition payments drastically.
America's chickens are coming home to rooooost!
 
ase747
Posts: 51
Joined: Thu Nov 13, 2003 6:49 am

RE: Aviation Schools And The Road To Becoming A Pilot.

Fri Jan 07, 2005 12:41 pm

Just go to UND!!! Great school and you get the full life of being in a 4 year college. With other students in different majors. And the way the USA aviation companies are doing right now it was great to get an aviation administration Degree. It comes in handy!!!! GO FIGHTING SIOUX!!!!!
What's our vector, Victor?
 
NW747-400
Posts: 364
Joined: Tue Jun 08, 1999 4:42 am

RE: Aviation Schools And The Road To Becoming A Pilot.

Fri Jan 07, 2005 12:56 pm

DO NOT COME TO EMBRY-RIDDLE!!!!! THIS PLACE SUCKS!!!.

Go to UND
 
2H4
Posts: 7960
Joined: Tue Oct 19, 2004 11:11 pm

RE: Aviation Schools And The Road To Becoming A Pi

Fri Jan 07, 2005 1:13 pm

You know, for as much as Riddle costs, you could get a more economical degree, get your ratings through an FBO, buy an inexpensive Aztec or Apache, fly the hell out of it, sell the airplane for a profit, and walk away from it all with several hundred more hours of multi time then a Riddle grad.

2H4
Intentionally Left Blank
 
meister808
Posts: 924
Joined: Sat Jan 01, 2000 11:45 am

RE: Aviation Schools And The Road To Becoming A Pilot.

Fri Jan 07, 2005 3:05 pm

As a UND student, I hate to see people knocking aviation universities, because they definitely offer a program that is hard to beat if you are very interested in aviation. I am. Because of that, I am going to UND and double majoring in Commercial Aviation and Aviation Management. The Commercial Aviation degree holds all of the interesting aviation classes, like Airline Operations, where the class is made up of groups representing ficticious airlines that run a simulation throughout the semester to learn how hard it really is to run an airline, or Gas Turbine Engines, where you learn how each and every part of a turbine engine works and why. That stuff interests me, and I love those classes. On the other hand, I pick up the management degree because it leaves me with a broad business base that I could use to be an accountant, a stock broker, or an entrepreneur if a)flying doesn't work out or b)flying does work out and I want a second job.

That said, if you are really interested in some other field, by all means go to another college and get a degree in that(biology, music, english, whatever) and then take it from there.

Also - everyone has to pay dues as an instructor or as a night cargo pilot or something. About the only way to get around that is the military, where even then you might learn the hard way that, after completing all your flight training, you are going to have to work your way up from FE or WSO to a flying position(it happened to my cousin, who is FEing B52s as we speak). The bottom line is that going into a 'guaranteed job at the end of your training' school is taking a gamble... it might work out, but have a second option available if your 'guaranteed interview' doesn't lead to getting hired.

And don't get me wrong - I take issue with people that knock the hell out of ERAU and insist that UND is the save-all option. If you want to go to Riddle, do it. I am extremely satisfied with UND and cannot imagine myself in Daytona Beach or even Prescott, but a very good friend of mine from high school went to ERAU and has been just as satisfied with that experience. Different strokes for different folks. If you go to Riddle, you are paying for the name, which I can't see doing. However, as people have said, aviation is very networked. Having that Embry-Riddle name on your resume just might help you network like University of North Dakota or Southern Illinois University would not.

I ramble way too much. Bottom line - think about it and talk to people doing your options. Pick which one sounds the best for you and go for it.

-Meister
Twin Cessna 812 Victor, Minneapolis Center, we observe your operation in the immediate vicinity of extreme precipitation
 
wdleiser
Posts: 865
Joined: Thu Apr 22, 2004 9:32 am

RE: Aviation Schools And The Road To Becoming A Pilot.

Fri Jan 07, 2005 3:17 pm

>>>Wdleiser: As for you. I think it is 8 or 10 years of service now in the Air Force. And you dont have complete control on what planes you fly in the Air Force. But you have somewhat of a say I think. But I would love to do that to. Fly an E-3 or C5 or C17. That would be great. But unless you have dual citizentship you cant fly for an European Airline like Virgin or LU. If you can you will still need to convert all your licenses to European licenses. But getting a job in Europe is easier after you get all the Euro ratings and licenses<<<

I do infact have dual Citizenship, I have an US and Swiss Passport  Smile