akjetBlue
Posts: 777
Joined: Wed Dec 03, 2003 1:59 am

Pan Am III Back In Business!

Fri Jan 07, 2005 6:05 am

Just got this emailed to me today from them:

http://www.flypanam.com/dest.html
Save a horse! Ride a Cowboy!
 
panamair
Posts: 3761
Joined: Fri Oct 12, 2001 2:24 am

RE: Pan Am III Back In Business!

Fri Jan 07, 2005 6:21 am

ALPA has gone to court to try to shut them down, saying that Guilford (the parent company) is unfit to operate as management deliberately closed the other Pan Am (on the Pan Am Airways certificate) down to bust the union and then restart with an all non-union carrier (this version of Pan Am or Clipper Connection (on the Boston-Maine certificate). Notice that those routes in the link above do not duplicate any of the routes previously served by Pan Am so that they cannot be accused of shifting the unionized Pan Am flights to the non-union Boston-Maine company...
 
MxCtrlr
Posts: 2312
Joined: Tue Nov 13, 2001 11:22 am

RE: Pan Am III Back In Business!

Fri Jan 07, 2005 1:03 pm

They just need to let the Blue Ball rest in peace! Juan T. Trippe's Pan American World Airways died in 1991 from piss-poor management, idiotic union contracts, worker apathy and fears of terrorism (Lockerbie was the final nail in the coffin). Unless someone had the hordes of cash it would take to bring back PA as it should be - a major international player with a decent domestic feeder network - then it should be allowed to die with dignity.

To see what the Blue Ball has become, thanks in part to Marty Shugrue's ill-advised resurrection attempt in the late 1990's, and completely degraded by what Guildford Transportation is doing to it now, is a travesty to a great, pioneering airline's name and legacy! This "version" of Pan Am is a farce as an airline and shouldn't be allowed to further sully the name and logo of Pan American World Airways!

Edit: (Just in case anyone wants to call in my qualifications for saying this, I worked for all three incarnations of Pan Am - I (The REAL Pan Am), II (Carnival/Pan Am) and the current farce so I feel more than qualified to speak about the topic)!

MxCtrlr  Smile/happy/getting dizzy
Freight Dogs Anonymous - O.O.T.S.K.  Smokin cool


[Edited 2005-01-07 05:05:17]
DAMN! This SUCKS! I just had to go to the next higher age bracket in my profile! :-(
 
INTENSS
Posts: 310
Joined: Mon Aug 30, 2004 9:25 am

RE: Pan Am III Back In Business!

Fri Jan 07, 2005 1:34 pm

For someone that was so "in the know" you should realize that Martin Shugrue's "ill-advised" resurrection attempt was in the mid 1990's. I also totally disagree with you pertaining to your opinion of this. It was an excellent idea until the merger with Carnival....

-Rich
 
capri
Posts: 499
Joined: Sat Sep 20, 2003 1:32 am

RE: Pan Am III Back In Business!

Fri Jan 07, 2005 1:37 pm

Where are those days, as a young kid growing up in another country, thinking america's only carriers are PanAM and TWA, never heard of the others, AA, DL, Ua,...till i came to live in USA, who ever thought then they will go bust, like if thinking today BA or LH will go bust, but never trust the businessmen/politicians.
 
sidishus
Posts: 488
Joined: Mon Oct 25, 2004 1:45 am

RE: Pan Am III Back In Business!

Fri Jan 07, 2005 1:51 pm


This rendition appears headed to Florida...

http://www.seacoastonline.com/news/01062005/news/57500.htm

Dave Mullen, deputy director of the Pease Development Authority, said he was caught by surprise by news reports that Pan Am had been discussing transfer of its Federal Aviation Administration operating-certificate status from Pease to Sanford, Fla.



the truth: first it is ridiculed second it is violently opposed finally it is accepted as self-evident
 
Theiler
Posts: 576
Joined: Sat Nov 03, 2001 8:39 am

RE: Pan Am III Back In Business!

Fri Jan 07, 2005 2:01 pm

As far as I'm concerned, the folks at Pease need to stick it to Pan Am for the remainder of their lease at the field, and then wave goodbye - and good riddence.

My initial interest in the Guilford incarnation disappeared last year. With some of their latest stunts, they just need to disappear.
 
MxCtrlr
Posts: 2312
Joined: Tue Nov 13, 2001 11:22 am

RE: Pan Am III Back In Business!

Fri Jan 07, 2005 6:28 pm

For someone that was so "in the know" you should realize that Martin Shugrue's "ill-advised" resurrection attempt was in the mid 1990's. I also totally disagree with you pertaining to your opinion of this. It was an excellent idea until the merger with Carnival....

Rich,

Forgive me if I may be off a year or so one way or the other but it matters little...I started working for KW in 1995 and was out of work with them by 1998 - a few months after Pan Am 2 "took over" - and PA2 was only about 1 year old at that point. That makes it the "late 1990's" as I stated earlier.

As for not agreeing with my position, that's fine however, I stick to my assertion that resurrecting Pan Am was ill-advised. The KW/PA2 "merger" was simply KW paying PA2 a bunch of money for KW to take over PA's name and PA to run it. It was doomed from the start but then again, so was PA2. When Shugrue spouted off (at the first flight) "This isn't K-Mart, this is Tiffiny's" and the consistantly dropped service levels to the point that it was lower than K-Mart, that is what I consider to be "ill-advised".

MxCtrlr  Smile/happy/getting dizzy
Freight Dogs Anonymous - O.O.T.S.K.  Smokin cool
DAMN! This SUCKS! I just had to go to the next higher age bracket in my profile! :-(
 
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chrisnh
Posts: 3353
Joined: Tue Jun 29, 1999 3:59 am

RE: Pan Am III Back In Business!

Fri Jan 07, 2005 9:15 pm

Guilford is horrible. Those three words sum up the situation. Unpaid debts? The list of those who are owed by this sham of a company are endless; Pease, of course, but every airport the 'new' Pan Am left in its wake after leaving under cover of darkness. Happily, every airport that this carrier wishes to fly to will (or should) insist upon pre-payment. Any creditor that doesn't insist upon this as a condition of doing business with Guilford and Pan Am will get what they deserve.
 
Thrust
Posts: 2585
Joined: Wed Sep 17, 2003 12:17 pm

RE: Pan Am III Back In Business!

Sat Jan 08, 2005 12:42 am

I bet Pan Am III is going to be even more successful than Pan Am II  Yeah sure

I agree completely with MxCtrlr, starting a Pan Am II was ludicrous in the first place. Almost nothing was accomplished by starting a PA2. PA2 was a complete mockery of the "real" Pan Am. Why don't they just let the company go down in the history books as one of the world's greatest airlines rather than the one of the world's greatest airlines whose name was used in one of the most pathetic airlines i have ever come across, PA II.
Fly one thing; Fly it well
 
Clipper002
Posts: 659
Joined: Wed Aug 11, 2004 4:24 am

RE: Pan Am III Back In Business!

Sat Jan 08, 2005 1:53 am

As a 29 year vet with the original Pan American World Airways, I have to agree wholeheartedly with MxCtrlr. Let the name die once and for all.

Rgds,
Ed
Ed
 
nm19371
Posts: 68
Joined: Mon Sep 17, 2001 12:32 pm

RE: Pan Am III Back In Business!

Sat Jan 08, 2005 2:38 am

Guilford itself is a rogue sham of a company. They bought up a bunch of ailing railroads in New England back in the early 80s, including the venerable Boston and Maine and bled all of them dry, eliminated thousands of miles of track in favor of selling off valuable real estate and have pretty much ruined passenger and freight rail service in northern New England. I have no idea what they want with Pan Am but given their management of the railroads, Id say that they are the kiss of death and an insult to the name of this fine airline.
 
NWAFA
Posts: 1843
Joined: Wed Dec 31, 2003 10:30 pm

RE: Pan Am III Back In Business!

Sat Jan 08, 2005 2:44 am

Personally I hate the fact they use the wonderful name of PanAm!

Im a former Pan Am employee and miss and love it there so much!
THANK YOU FOR FLYING NORTHWEST AIRLINES, WE TRULY APPRECIATE YOUR BUSINESS!
 
ATAIndy
Posts: 621
Joined: Sat May 15, 2004 11:05 am

RE: Pan Am III Back In Business!

Sat Jan 08, 2005 3:22 am

I like the fact that there are planes with the blue ball still flying, since Pan Am went under before my time. I do respect the fact that the orginal carrier should go down with diginty, but seeing Pan Am planes today makes me feel like I lived when Pan Am ruled the airways.
Boiler up! - Next flights: IND-MIA, MIA-IND
 
RyanL1011
Posts: 36
Joined: Sat Nov 27, 2004 3:30 pm

RE: Pan Am III Back In Business!

Sat Jan 08, 2005 11:43 am

I for one wish nothing but success for Pan Am, it is possible to resurect a dead airline and make it successful, take Frontier for example. I hope to someday see the return of TWA and Braniff (wishful thinking I know)
 
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Aloha717200
Posts: 3739
Joined: Mon Aug 18, 2003 4:50 am

RE: Pan Am III Back In Business!

Sat Jan 08, 2005 12:21 pm

I completely agree with Ryan. Pan Am could once again be a household name and a fantastic product if only it were to be resurrected by management that actually cares and is willing to bust their butts to get it right.


What we've seen is a bunch of half-assed management teams attempting to start half-assed airlines hoping that the name itself will sell the product.

It won't. Pan Am wasn't just a name. It was an experience. Something these assholes seem to forget. We need someone who remembers.
 
INTENSS
Posts: 310
Joined: Mon Aug 30, 2004 9:25 am

RE: Pan Am III Back In Business!

Sat Jan 08, 2005 2:42 pm

"Forgive me if I may be off a year or so one way or the other but it matters little...I started working for KW in 1995 and was out of work with them by 1998 - a few months after Pan Am 2 "took over" - and PA2 was only about 1 year old at that point. That makes it the "late 1990's" as I stated earlier.

As for not agreeing with my position, that's fine however, I stick to my assertion that resurrecting Pan Am was ill-advised. The KW/PA2 "merger" was simply KW paying PA2 a bunch of money for KW to take over PA's name and PA to run it. It was doomed from the start but then again, so was PA2. When Shugrue spouted off (at the first flight) "This isn't K-Mart, this is Tiffiny's" and the consistantly dropped service levels to the point that it was lower than K-Mart, that is what I consider to be "ill-advised".

MxCtrlr,

While I agree the latest incarnation of PA has been nothing less than horrific, I stick by my assertions that PA II had a good business plan led by highly qualified mangement.

I'd also like to add that 2 other major contributors leading to the demise Pan American World Airways was the lack of CAB support (due in part to the company's reluctance to pay off the right people at certain times including politically) to gain route authority (specifically domestic) and the lack of proper management to guide the carrier just prior and into deregulation including the purchase of National Airlines and the establishment of a suitable domestic feeder system. Coupled with the reasons you stated above....it all spelled the end of an aviation era.

And while I would hate to see the name tarnished with would-be pseudo Pan Am's.....it's sometimes nice to see the meatball flying in every now and then.  Smile/happy/getting dizzy

-Rich






 
miamix707
Posts: 3848
Joined: Tue Oct 21, 2003 2:22 pm

RE: Pan Am III Back In Business!

Sun Jan 09, 2005 4:51 am

They have been operating the 727s to and from Sanford, for about a week or two now using the code CXS which is Boston-Maine..?
 
romeokc10fe
Posts: 183
Joined: Mon Jul 05, 2004 3:45 am

RE: Pan Am III Back In Business!

Wed Jan 19, 2005 10:42 am

Hey guys, I was at Barnes & Nobles book store looking at latest aviation mags, and the Jan. 2005 issue of Airliners World said that Pan Am had terminated the contract of all of it's pilots on Oct. 31. So what gives are they stil in business or what, I flew for them from Jan. 2000-Sept 2001 as Flight Engineer. as for the company and management, well I won't even get into that, let's just say they leave a lot to be desired.
For those of you that don't know, Pan Am is primarily owned by Tim Mellon of the banking Mellon family of Pittsburgh (Mellon Arena), Dave Fink runs the airline, ask any of the railroad guys from the New England area about Fink and his dislike for unions.

 
HlywdCatft
Posts: 5232
Joined: Mon Jan 29, 2001 6:21 am

RE: Pan Am III Back In Business!

Wed Jan 19, 2005 10:58 am

So with it starting again, can we now call it Pan Am IV?

Maybe they should grab some cheap 747-200s and retired L1011s so they can at least look like Pan Am.

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