PITrules
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More Carriers Looking At PIT

Sun Jan 09, 2005 3:12 am

Looks like there will be a couple more low fare carriers in PIT in the near future.

http://www.pittsburghlive.com/x/tribune-review/trib/regional/s_291054.html


For those that thought PIT would never recover from the loss of US Airways, I still think that is not the case. US Airways only had about 120 mainline flights when the hub was abandoned, which is now at 70. If Southwest adds to have about 40 flights, and a few more carriers enter the market, PIT will be right back where it was with a good level of service. It may even have better service if US Airways survives and keeps a handfull of their own flights.

PIT is also on the top of Lufthansa's list as well. If this service is started, the only real loss of the US Airways hub would be the Express service to all the small Pennsylvania towns. I'll take the cheaper fares and higher O&D traffic any day.
FLYi
 
Flaps
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RE: More Carriers Looking At PIT

Sun Jan 09, 2005 3:23 am

I agree, we will be fine. While the prestige of having a major hub is nice and certainly has many benefits, being held hostage by a perennially failing carrier isnt worth it. From a general consumer standpoint the humbling of US at PIT has all the making of a huge plus.
 
ANCFlyer
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RE: More Carriers Looking At PIT

Sun Jan 09, 2005 3:31 am

The terminal at PIT alone makes it worth the stop.

Perhaps O&D isn't as high as PHL or EWR, etc, but the airport is awesome. When I lived in DC would book all westerly travel via PIT (on US of course) because of the terminal. Avoided that hell hole PHL like the plague!

Only exception being that sorry excuse for an air terminal called the "Commuter Terminal". What a hole! Needs to be demolished! Needs to be something like the new commuter terminal E at CLT.

FOR THOSE THAT FOUGHT FOR IT, FREEDOM HAS A FLAVOR THE PROTECTED WILL NEVER KNOW OR UNDERSTAND
 
PHLBOS
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RE: More Carriers Looking At PIT

Sun Jan 09, 2005 3:37 am

From the article:

Pittsburgh International now has several low-cost airlines: AirTran, Independence Air, ATA and USA3000.

The article doesn't state anything about ATA leaving PIT later this month in anticipation of WN coming in.

It's unlikely Southwest will offer a Pittsburgh to Philadelphia flight, at least initially. That's because the airline does not have enough gates to add flights at Philadelphia International, Southwest Chief Executive Gary Kelly said Wednesday.

If that's indeed the case, should US still be around, it may not be too late for FL to re-establish its PIT-PHL route it once had. However, should US cease operations, there will be NO shortage of gates at PHL.

"TransEastern! You'll feel like you've never left the ground because we treat you like dirt!" SNL Parady ad circa 1981
 
ConcordeBoy
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RE: More Carriers Looking At PIT

Sun Jan 09, 2005 3:52 am

PIT is also on the top of Lufthansa's list as well.

Says whom?
Faire du ciel le plus bel endroit de la terre c'est impossible sans Concorde!
 
N766UA
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RE: More Carriers Looking At PIT

Sun Jan 09, 2005 4:33 am

Pitt's hard work has finally paid off... meanwhile CLE's idiot managers are still chasing off airlines like B6 and F9. Best of luck to pitt, they deserve it. I think they'll be better off without US dominating.
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usairways85
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RE: More Carriers Looking At PIT

Sun Jan 09, 2005 4:39 am

A few things to add. I believe Southwest has gained 2 gates at Terminal D. I tried looking at the arrival reports on Philly's website however for some reason none of Southwest's flts were listed. If this is the case, Southwest would have 6 gates for 41 flts. In my opinion they definitely have room to expand at least another 8-10 flts.

However, i believe Airtran should really take a close look at both PIT and PHL. They haven't done much to expand lately and have put these airports on the backburner. If they don't act quickly they will lose both these airports to Southwest. At the same time Jetblue is making a name for itself at BOS and diminishing the hope Airtran had there as well. Thus, leaving only BWI has a good Northeast base for Airtran.

Next, i don't see Lufthansa flying to PIT...maybe on a one of those long range 737's though. Should be interesting if LH even keeps MUC-CLT if US goes under.
 
isitsafenow
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RE: More Carriers Looking At PIT

Sun Jan 09, 2005 4:42 am

What the hell would Lufthansa want with Pittsburgh? Non stop A340's to Erie and Bradford? Find another pill will ya?
My money is on Spirit. They have the planes coming and need a boost. This could be it.
By the way..Pit does not rule. USAIRWAYS is proving that with their famous "Pittsburgh Regress".
safe
If two people agree on EVERYTHING, then one isn't necessary.
 
N670UW
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RE: More Carriers Looking At PIT

Sun Jan 09, 2005 4:43 am

PIT is also on the top of Lufthansa's list as well.

Says whom?


I don't think PIT is on the top of LH's list per se, but a LH spokeswoman has said PIT is one of a few cities being considered for service.

http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/04267/383838.stm
"Lufthansa spokeswoman Jennifer Urbaniak confirmed that Pittsburgh was among the cities the airline is considering for service."

---
Should be interesting if LH even keeps MUC-CLT if US goes under.

Highly unlikely it would be kept.


N670UW
 
FA4B6
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RE: More Carriers Looking At PIT

Sun Jan 09, 2005 4:50 am

Could JFK-PIT service really work for B6 as an A320 route or is this the sorta thing that we'd see with the 190's?

B6 could pick up some slack .. like PIT-JFK, BOS, FLL, MCO, and LGB.
"Leap! And the net will appear."
 
PITrules
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RE: More Carriers Looking At PIT

Sun Jan 09, 2005 5:06 am

What the hell would Lufthansa want with Pittsburgh? Non stop A340's to Erie and Bradford? Find another pill will ya?
My money is on Spirit. They have the planes coming and need a boost. This could be it.
By the way..Pit does not rule. USAIRWAYS is proving that with their famous "Pittsburgh Regress".
safe


That's an intelligent post. Well, if PIT isn't at the top of LH's list, it sure isn't at the bottom either. There has been plenty of info on these boards about the strong traffic between Germany and Pittsburgh.

http://www.pittsburghlive.com/x/tribune-review/business/s_274566.html

What city has more potential for FRA service than PIT, that currently has none?


[Edited 2005-01-08 21:14:07]
FLYi
 
PHLBOS
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RE: More Carriers Looking At PIT

Sun Jan 09, 2005 5:50 am

A few things to add. I believe Southwest has gained 2 gates at Terminal D. I tried looking at the arrival reports on Philly's website however for some reason none of Southwest's flts were listed. If this is the case, Southwest would have 6 gates for 41 flts. In my opinion they definitely have room to expand at least another 8-10 flts.

Usairways85,

You are correct, WN does have ex-US gates D2 & D4 in addition to its 4 Terminal E gates. Most of WN's PHL expansion plans through last July did not take into account of the additional D gates. Plus, there presently are plans being made to expand Terminal E (a.k.a. the Hammerhead E project) to give WN a total of 8 gates excluding D2 & D4. However, should US cease operations, those expansion plans could be scapped in favor of WN moving to B & C.

However, i believe Airtran should really take a close look at both PIT and PHL. They haven't done much to expand lately and have put these airports on the backburner. If they don't act quickly they will lose both these airports to Southwest. At the same time Jetblue is making a name for itself at BOS and diminishing the hope Airtran had there as well. Thus, leaving only BWI has a good Northeast base for Airtran.

I agree with you regarding FL's operations at PHL & PIT although they do have more non-stops out of PHL (ATL, BOS, many Florida cities) than out of PIT (ATL, FLL & MCO).

As far as BOS is concerned, while FL may not offer any Florida non-stops out of Logan (probably due to the limited range of the 717); they do offer some unique non-stops out of BOS (ATL, BWI, CAK, PHF, PHL & RDU) that B6 does not serve.

Back to PIT, FL could if it, wanted to, add PHL (before WN grabs it), BOS (before B6 grabs it), LGA, and DFW along with maybe a couple other cities that neither B6 and WN presently serve and carve a unique niche market for themselves like they did at BOS.

However, something tells me that with reports of US getting closer to liquidation, Joe Leonard may be secretly eyeing the northeast Shuttle market. That would be the only explanation I see as towards why FL has not went into high gear expansionwise over at PHL, PIT, and even DFW as of late.

"TransEastern! You'll feel like you've never left the ground because we treat you like dirt!" SNL Parady ad circa 1981
 
blhp68
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RE: More Carriers Looking At PIT

Sun Jan 09, 2005 6:01 am

For all of you PIT fanatics:
Any chance of an airline offering N/S back to MCI. I know those non-stops are sorely missed amongst the KC area/. I was speculating either WN or FL down the road a bit though. Thoughts?
 
StevenUhl777
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RE: More Carriers Looking At PIT

Sun Jan 09, 2005 6:15 am

PIT is also on the top of Lufthansa's list as well

Not to beat a dead horse, but didn't LH use to operate PIT-FRA, and pulled out? If so, why would they restart it, especially given the status of US de-hubbing PIT? Seems LH could put that a/c on a better route somewhere else.
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PITrules
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RE: More Carriers Looking At PIT

Sun Jan 09, 2005 6:57 am

LH never served PIT. You might be thinking of US Airways, which served the route and recently dropped it. The reason LH might be more successful is because local business leaders put together a travel bank (see article) for LH service (much like they did in PDX). This is something US Airways never had.

I said PIT was on top of LH's list because they said themselves a year ago PIT, CLT, and MCO were the top contenders. CLT got the service, leaving PIT and MCO. I'd be surprised to see MCO get the service before PIT because of this travel bank set up by PIT, and the US Bayer HQ is here.
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ERJ170
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RE: More Carriers Looking At PIT

Sun Jan 09, 2005 7:01 am

The US Bayer Agriculture HQ is in Research Triangle Park, NC.. Does that mean RDU will get LH? I highly doubt that. Many of them will fly on the RDU-LGW-Germany flights.. I'm sure the same will happen at PIT. The Bayers people will fly on connecting flights out of PHL or CLT. There has to be some serious O&D or some serious incentives offered. And they have to be able to put some serious Cargo in those bellies. But who knows? Time will tell..
Aiming High and going far..
 
Tango-Bravo
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RE: More Carriers Looking At PIT

Sun Jan 09, 2005 7:11 am

What the hell would Lufthansa want with Pittsburgh?

In spite of USAirways reduction of flight operations at PIT, they nonetheless plan to retain a significant presence there, giving Star Alliance partner LH a large selection of codeshare destinations to offer in the heavily populated (by both people and international businesses) regions surrounding PIT. Which is to say nothing of the potentially solid O&D destination PIT may be for LH, as indicated by the travel bank mentioned in previous replies.
 
isitsafenow
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RE: More Carriers Looking At PIT

Sun Jan 09, 2005 7:14 am

Now lets think about this...Pittsburgh or Orlando? Where do the people of the world wish to go if they had a choice here? HHMMMM
This is tough one. Hey, I just remembered, when I was at MCO just after Thanksgiving I saw four, count em, four Virgin Atlantic airliners parked at the gates there....I could toss in the other non-USA carriers but why bother.
Now back to the Q....Pittsburgh or Orlando?
This one will keep me up all night...........
If two people agree on EVERYTHING, then one isn't necessary.
 
cltguy
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RE: More Carriers Looking At PIT

Sun Jan 09, 2005 7:21 am

RE- CLT-MUC service....if the US Hub goes away then that service will most likely stay. LH folks have said they are VERY impressed with the local passengers on that flight and not so impressed with the connecting traffic in CLT.
 
PITrules
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RE: More Carriers Looking At PIT

Sun Jan 09, 2005 7:52 am

Now lets think about this...Pittsburgh or Orlando? Where do the people of the world wish to go if they had a choice here? HHMMMM
This is tough one. Hey, I just remembered, when I was at MCO just after Thanksgiving I saw four, count em, four Virgin Atlantic airliners parked at the gates there....I could toss in the other non-USA carriers but why bother.
Now back to the Q....Pittsburgh or Orlando?
This one will keep me up all night...........


Well don't lose too much sleep over it dude....I don't need to defend LH's position when there are plenty of links to newspapers on this thread already. Maybe both MCO and PIT will get service over time, who knows? I started this thread because it apperars PIT will be fine without US Airways, not to engage in a pissing match with you.
FLYi
 
ConcordeBoy
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RE: More Carriers Looking At PIT

Sun Jan 09, 2005 8:41 am

What city has more potential for FRA service than PIT, that currently has none?

...would you prefer that listed by continent, by nation, or by alphabetical order?
Faire du ciel le plus bel endroit de la terre c'est impossible sans Concorde!
 
MAH4546
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RE: More Carriers Looking At PIT

Sun Jan 09, 2005 9:07 am

Now lets think about this...Pittsburgh or Orlando? Where do the people of the world wish to go if they had a choice here? HHMMMM
This is tough one. Hey, I just remembered, when I was at MCO just after Thanksgiving I saw four, count em, four Virgin Atlantic airliners parked at the gates there....I could toss in the other non-USA carriers but why bother.
Now back to the Q....Pittsburgh or Orlando?
This one will keep me up all night...........


Outside of the United Kingdom, traffic between Orlando and Europe is actually weak. Europeans perfer South Florida, outside of the British. Also, yields are horrendous.

RE- CLT-MUC service....if the US Hub goes away then that service will most likely stay. LH folks have said they are VERY impressed with the local passengers on that flight and not so impressed with the connecting traffic in CLT.

The lack of connecting passengers on Lufthansa's CLT-MUC service is probably the reason it is only operating 3x a week now through the end of February, and then only 5 times a week in March. It will go daily again for the summer.

I'm sure Lufthansa will stay in Charlotte if US Airways goes under, but the service would most likely be moved to Frankfurt.
a.
 
isitsafenow
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RE: More Carriers Looking At PIT

Sun Jan 09, 2005 9:21 am

There is no match. My point is this. LH may add one rt a day to Pit. That's saying a big fat nothing.
Southwest wont put too many there in the first year because of one thing. They don't have the airplanes to saturate the market over a short period (one year or less of time). About 18 months ago, USAirways and USEX had 350 plus departures a day. What do they have now? Whats on the horizon? I deal with facts and not dreams...Dreams are nice but looking at Pit over the next 12 months and it doesn't look promising for getting back to all those departures a day...that's all I state. I apologize for the pop off attitude..That's not like me.
keep smilin'
safe
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PITrules
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RE: More Carriers Looking At PIT

Sun Jan 09, 2005 10:13 am

No need to apologize. I agree that PIT most likely will not have the same number of flights. However, I do think the airport will get over US Airways, and become a successful post-hub airport much like MCI, RDU, and BNA.
FLYi
 
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ERJ170
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RE: More Carriers Looking At PIT

Sun Jan 09, 2005 10:20 am

As do I.. I think that PIT will come out well.. It may again have 2 or 3 international destinations, plus any that US maintains. With WN.. I believe they will probably have up to 12 destinations or so.. probably 4 or 5 to each.. but i doubt it will get any more than that.. If I were PIT, I would honestly be happy with the amount of international traffic US left there.. When AA pulled out of RDU, BNA, and SJC.. they pulled A LOT of international destiantions.. leaving only 1 at RDU (LGW)..
Aiming High and going far..
 
RiddlePilot215
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RE: More Carriers Looking At PIT

Sun Jan 09, 2005 2:46 pm

QUOTE:

Pitt's hard work has finally paid off... meanwhile CLE's idiot managers are still chasing off airlines like B6 and F9. Best of luck to pitt, they deserve it. I think they'll be better off without US dominating.



It's the city's physical inability to lower it's landing fees and rates. Hopkins in and of itself is a HUGE money loser. I don't even think the damn field comes close to breaking even for the city. What Cleveland needs is a newer, more efficient airport, that's away from the city, away from the likes of the evil city of Brookpark, free of having so many god-forsaken runways, even if you totally screw up an ILS on 24L, you still have chance at 24C, and 24R
God is good, all the time. All the time, God is good.
 
optionscle
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RE: More Carriers Looking At PIT

Sun Jan 09, 2005 3:56 pm

Cleveland's airport is about as much of a mess as they come. No room to expand, mediocre facilities, out of this world landing fees (I believe it was $25 for me to land my C172 on the field just to pick up a friend from Air Services who would have charged me $40 for the ramp usage.) Hopefully they find out a way to improve things.

-Andrew
 
allstarflyer
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RE: More Carriers Looking At PIT

Mon Jan 10, 2005 8:17 am

Seems a shame that some carriers(mainly LCC's) couldn't advance upon PIT, with its access to the East Coast. I speak mainly of Western-based carriers, such as America West, or even Alaska or Frontier. They wouldn't have to make it a hub, maybe just a focus city. I'm sure the airport would like to see an increase in traffic with the downsizing of US there(and it's possible demise). I know those three I mentioned are heavy into their own turf, but PIT would allow some decent access to the Northeast and maybe for some regional flying for one of those carriers.

-R
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