AgnusBymaster
Topic Author
Posts: 620
Joined: Mon Feb 19, 2001 8:11 am

Palm Springs Shut Down?

Mon Jan 10, 2005 10:31 am

I noticed that from Friday afternoon through Sunday, many flights into PSP have either been diverted or cancelled. Anyone know what has been going on? Did they shut down the airport due to flooding or other weather-related issues?
 
maiznblu_757
Posts: 4952
Joined: Fri Mar 01, 2002 12:05 pm

RE: Palm Springs Shut Down?

Mon Jan 10, 2005 11:04 am

I was out at PSP yesterday and it was very slow. Nothing parked at the terminal. Although it was rainy, low clouds and foggy conditions, it wasnt the worst I have seen.

In the hour I was there I saw one Citation 550 depart and a King Air arrive.

 
as739x
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RE: Palm Springs Shut Down?

Mon Jan 10, 2005 11:10 am

Angus....it was not closed. The wx was just below landing min's. The ceiling most of the day was 1,200 to 1,200 feet. Due to terrain they only have a VOR approach with mins of 2,300 feet. The planes that were there were able to depart. We got our first bird in (SFO-PSP AS 412), but they had to shoot 3 approaches. The weather went down later in the day. When I left at 3:30p we had 2 planes holding. I know 574 Captain made an announcement to pax that the plane could possibly end up in ONT and no more bus's were available. Its been a bad year for PSP.

ASSFO
"Some pilots avoid storm cells and some play connect the dots!"
 
ERAU Pilot
Posts: 31
Joined: Mon Mar 27, 2000 5:55 pm

RE: Palm Springs Shut Down?

Mon Jan 10, 2005 11:15 am

Palm Springs has only 1 instrument approach, a VOR-GPS Approach. The minimums on that approach are really high due to the mountainous terrain. The weather has been at or below those for the last couple of days. Hopefully soon the weather will break and allow flights to start operating again. Hope this helps!

 
as739x
Posts: 5034
Joined: Tue Apr 15, 2003 7:23 am

RE: Palm Springs Shut Down?

Mon Jan 10, 2005 11:02 pm

The ironic part is Alaska planes have an RNP approach in the computer that would have allowed all but our MD80's to land. But the Fed's are dragging thier feet on publishing the charts for it. We could have got almost every flight in there. Very frustrating!

ASSFO
"Some pilots avoid storm cells and some play connect the dots!"
 
September11
Posts: 3293
Joined: Fri May 21, 2004 12:49 am

RE: Palm Springs Shut Down?

Mon Jan 10, 2005 11:56 pm

Photos of PSP


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Photo © Gabriel Savit
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Photo © Jonathan Simmons



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Photo © Matt Willmott-Sharp
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Photo © Nate Portinga



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Photo © Craig Jarmuz
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Photo © AirNikon



Nice location -- by the mountains
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wjcandee
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RE: Palm Springs Shut Down?

Tue Jan 11, 2005 3:01 am

Nice photos. I love flying through this airport -- very easy, very friendly. And note the HUGE runways for a local airport. Apparently, they used to get DC10s in there.

All the best,

Bill
 
September11
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RE: Palm Springs Shut Down?

Tue Jan 11, 2005 3:06 am

NW DC-10 jet was there recently for charter --


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Photo © Shawn Flinn

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ramprat74
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RE: Palm Springs Shut Down?

Tue Jan 11, 2005 6:48 am

I started my career for UA in PSP. We had many flts back then. Now its all UAX.  Sad. American use to run the most flts out of PSP. They use to have 5-6 DFW's, and 4 ORD's in the winter. We use to have 2 ORD's, and 3 DEN's.

The approach to land on 31L can get tricky when the weather is bad. You have to make a hard right bank to line up with it.
 
iowaman
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RE: Palm Springs Shut Down?

Tue Jan 11, 2005 7:04 am

Why such a large displaced threshold??? Because of the mountains?
 
as739x
Posts: 5034
Joined: Tue Apr 15, 2003 7:23 am

RE: Palm Springs Shut Down?

Tue Jan 11, 2005 7:21 am

Iowa....yes!

Looks like it has not been as rough of a day, but still some canceled flights and some holds. All AS flights have gotten in, but QX canceled. Looks like most OO/AA/HP flights are getting in.

ASSFO
"Some pilots avoid storm cells and some play connect the dots!"
 
qqflyboy
Posts: 1629
Joined: Sat Oct 25, 2003 1:47 pm

RE: Palm Springs Shut Down?

Tue Jan 11, 2005 10:36 pm

I was working AA 499 from ORD to PSP on Friday. We first diverted to PHX, refueled and tried again but ended up at LAX the second time. The captain wanted to go to ONT, but apparently ONT was inundated with diversions and there were no gates available, for hours. AA bussed the pax from LAX to PSP, a tough haul on a Friday afternoon. But they made it, safely. We never shot an approach, the ceiling was just too low. When we were first in the PSP vicinity it was at 1500'. By the time our flight canceled at LAX, it was down to 900'. I flew with the same captain yesterday (Mon) to YYC and he pulled up the weather at PSP for kicks and giggles. Again, it was below minimums.
The views expressed are mine alone and do not necessarily reflect my employer’s views.
 
Seattle Ops
Posts: 171
Joined: Mon Aug 09, 1999 7:35 am

RE: Palm Springs Shut Down?

Wed Jan 12, 2005 1:45 am

I tried to shoot the VOR-B approach on Flight Sim 2004 with the downloadable current weather and crashed. You have to circle from a heading of 292 to 310 very low and its not easy. PSP has had a rough week.
 
as739x
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RE: Palm Springs Shut Down?

Wed Jan 12, 2005 5:33 am

Sea Ops, who do you work for? Feel free to send of the forum!

ASSFO
"Some pilots avoid storm cells and some play connect the dots!"
 
as739x
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Joined: Tue Apr 15, 2003 7:23 am

RE: Palm Springs Shut Down?

Wed Jan 12, 2005 6:01 am

Great news for PSP, as of 1230 local RNP approaches have been approved by the FAA. I have approach plates being sent and we may actually have a flight fly it within a few hours. So long delays for RNP able planes.

ASSFO
"Some pilots avoid storm cells and some play connect the dots!"
 
ClearedDirect
Posts: 198
Joined: Fri Oct 01, 2004 10:57 pm

RE: Palm Springs Shut Down?

Wed Jan 12, 2005 6:46 am

I watched a Skywest E-120 (UAX 6121) LAX-PSP on Flight Explorer last night. He circled at least twice at the TRM VOR, shot an approach, went missed and turned back to LAX. An AA MD80 circled for what I think was about an hour and eventually made it in. I also watched a CL-60 Challenger from Nashville circle once and landed ahead of everyone. I believe the METAR was showing broken at 1500', overcast 3000' with light rain and mist with 1.5 SM visibility. At night I am sure it was not fun with those mountains around.

CD
 
OPNLguy
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Joined: Tue Jun 15, 1999 11:29 am

RE: Palm Springs Shut Down?

Wed Jan 12, 2005 8:35 am

>>>Why such a large displaced threshold??? Because of the mountains?

>>>Iowa....yes!

I don't think so... I think it's more likely related to pavement considerations in this case...

Look at:
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Photo © Matt Willmott-Sharp



Using the 10,001 foot runway 13R-31L as a rough 2-mile gauge, you'll notice that there are no big mountains 3-4 miles within either end of the runway. This is not like SAN where there's a displaced threshold landing on 27 due clear to terrain and obstructions immediately east of that airport. That's not evident in this photo of PSP.

Also, take a look at:
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Photo © Gabriel Savit



Note that -both- 13R and 31L have displaced thresholds for landing. PSP is listed in airnav.com as having an asphalt runway, and I suspect only the center portion of 13R-31L (roughly the same length as the 5,000 foot parallel 13L-31R) is actually concrete underneath the asphalt, and thus better able tolerate landing touchdowns in the desert heat. Landing rollouts, and takeoffs are much easier on the runways...

Maybe Tom in MSY or the Comm guy from RNO can chime in here...
ALL views, opinions expressed are mine ONLY and are NOT representative of those shared by Southwest Airlines Co.
 
JeffLAS
Posts: 126
Joined: Wed Nov 17, 2004 9:13 am

RE: Palm Springs Shut Down?

Wed Jan 12, 2005 8:47 am


Back in the TWA good years, I personally witnessed a TWA 747 doing touch and go's at the PSP airport in the heat of the summer. Quite a sight.
" Jazz A-380, you have 2,100 feet from the intersection......Cleared for Take-off"
 
DHLSAN
Posts: 135
Joined: Sun Jan 02, 2005 2:21 pm

RE: Palm Springs Shut Down?

Wed Jan 12, 2005 9:08 am

Due to the weather, SAN had been using 9 instead of 27 the last couple days. You still have the hill of Point Loma, but don't have to navigate the houses, the freeway, and a parking structure 50 feet from the threshold.
Yellow?
 
aaway
Posts: 1270
Joined: Tue Oct 21, 2003 2:07 am

RE: Palm Springs Shut Down?

Wed Jan 12, 2005 10:38 am

"PSP is listed in airnav.com as having an asphalt runway, and I suspect only the center portion of 13R-31L (roughly the same length as the 5,000 foot parallel 13L-31R) is actually concrete underneath the asphalt, and thus better able tolerate landing touchdowns in the desert heat. Landing rollouts, and takeoffs are much easier on the runways..."

From the AFD, PSP 13R-31L is listed as asphalt (asph-pfc). Weight bearing is as follows: DT (dual tandem) 330,00 lbs; DDT (double dual tandem) 800,000 lbs.
I think it may have to do with the fact that nosie "sensitive" areas surround the airport. Bring em' higher to reduce the noise footprint.
"The greatest mistake you can make in life is to continually be afraid you will make one." - Elbert Hubbard
 
OPNLguy
Posts: 11191
Joined: Tue Jun 15, 1999 11:29 am

RE: Palm Springs Shut Down?

Wed Jan 12, 2005 11:07 am

!3R is displaced 3,144 feet for landing, and 31L is displaced 1,501 feet for landing. Given the vertical distances associated with those horizontal displacements, I think the effect on airport noise is minimal at best...
ALL views, opinions expressed are mine ONLY and are NOT representative of those shared by Southwest Airlines Co.
 
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ramprat74
Posts: 1338
Joined: Wed Dec 17, 2003 6:01 pm

RE: Palm Springs Shut Down?

Wed Jan 12, 2005 11:35 am

They built that threshold on 13R after I tranferred out of there in 94. I don't see a need for it. They should just extend 31L. Those planes need all the runway they can handle during the really hot summer's.

All the gray stuff in between the runways and taxiways is river rock. It was just dirt when I worked there. I wonder how many cubic yards it took to feel in all those area's.

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