TheLazarusman
Topic Author
Posts: 17
Joined: Sun Oct 17, 2004 2:36 pm

North American Charters: Soldier Transports

Mon Jan 10, 2005 1:11 pm

Every day, here in DFW, the North American charter flights come in from the Middle East; bringing soldiers home to their families, and unfortunately taking many more back over to serve. The airport fire department gives these flights a water gun salute over both sides of the airplane as it taxis by. My colleagues and I usually stop what we're doing and wave at the soldiers on board. It is our small way of showing our appreciation for what they're doing. The other day one of the North American flights came in and I was the only one free to wave at the soldiers. As they waved back I glanced at the cockpit and the first officer shot me the bird. I dropped my hand and stared in amazement for a second and then went back to waving at the soldiers. I decided to glance at the cockpit again and dam@ if the F.O. didn't vigorously shoot me the bird again! I don't know what possessed him to react the way he did; and I'm still taken back over the whole situation. Maybe the guy was just another in a long line of people with an axe to grind against USAirways; I don't know. I just wondered what kind of comments any of ya'll might have.

The Lazarusman
FSA Lead
USAirways DFW
 
wjcandee
Posts: 5343
Joined: Mon Jun 05, 2000 12:50 am

RE: North American Charters: Soldier Transports

Mon Jan 10, 2005 2:01 pm

If I were you, I'd write a short "thought you should know" letter to Dan McKinnon, President and CEO of North American, with date, time, ship number, etc. I doubt Mr. McKinnon, a former chairman of the CAB, who has a polish and discipline reputation, would be pleased to hear about this. It's his reputation that the F/O was besmirching, regardless of his reasons. Here's his address:

North American Airlines
Building. 75, Suite 250, North Hangar Rd.
JFK International Airport
Jamaica, NY 11430

I'd like to hear the f/o's reasons, too. Could have something to do with the IAM, but that seems pretty farfetched and it's still inexcuseable.

Best,

Bill
 
KDTWflyer
Posts: 787
Joined: Tue Jun 29, 2004 12:51 pm

RE: North American Charters: Soldier Transports

Mon Jan 10, 2005 2:22 pm

This could be a military charter... It's flying as of this posting..

BGR">
NW B744 B742 B753 B752 A333 A332 A320 A319 DC10 DC9 ARJ CRJ S340
 
ANNOYEDFA
Posts: 441
Joined: Thu Dec 16, 2004 9:16 am

RE: North American Charters: Soldier Transports

Mon Jan 10, 2005 2:31 pm

What does "shooting the bird mean"????  Confused
"TWA... One Mission, Yours."
 
KDTWflyer
Posts: 787
Joined: Tue Jun 29, 2004 12:51 pm

RE: North American Charters: Soldier Transports

Mon Jan 10, 2005 2:41 pm

The middle finger was being displayed

NW B744 B742 B753 B752 A333 A332 A320 A319 DC10 DC9 ARJ CRJ S340
 
jjbiv
Posts: 1203
Joined: Mon Jan 08, 2001 10:58 am

RE: North American Charters: Soldier Transports

Tue Jan 11, 2005 2:45 am

I can't believe a crew member seriously would do such a thing. You definitely should drop Dan a line. I'm sure he'd love to hear of this antic and send his Chief Pilot after said airman. That would be a great carpet dance to be a fly on the wall for.

joe
 
OttoPylit
Posts: 2259
Joined: Wed Dec 17, 2003 10:58 am

RE: North American Charters: Soldier Transports

Tue Jan 11, 2005 9:55 am

Considering he is a FO with NA, could it be possible that he is a furloughed US pilot and is holding a grudge against everyone in the company? I don't know the comparison in pay between US and NA and I'm pretty sure there isn't much of a pay difference, but if he is making lower pay at NA, starting over at the bottom of the seniority list, and not being able to fly within the US and be closer to home, he may be pissed.

Personally, I have never met a charter pilot who didn't prefer their job to anywhere else. Its not the same routine sked over and over. You fly to various places, see more exotic locales, almost always international destinations, and you never know where your gonna end up.
I don't have a microwave, but I do have a clock that occasionally cooks shit.
 
future757
Posts: 62
Joined: Sun Nov 28, 2004 4:50 am

RE: North American Charters: Soldier Transports

Tue Jan 11, 2005 10:32 am

I agree with Wjcandee. Write a letter to the CEO of NA. There is no excuse for this kind of behavior. I don't care if he is a former employee of US. If US collapses, these are exactly the kind of people I hope will not get rehired. There is a reason pilots get paid a lot and I don't think guys with the mentality of a high school kid should be allowed in the cockpit. Besides this is just what struggling airlines need is for FO's to be flipping the bird to the public. This is really an image booster for them. I bet people would feel so comfortable knowing that their pilot knows how to act so mature. I don't mean to bash pilots so don't anyone take this the wrong way. I have a lot of respect for these guys and my dream is to be one myself someday. I don't think this is an image any clear thinking pilot would want the public to have of him, much less an airline that is hiring.
 
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clickhappy
Posts: 9042
Joined: Thu Sep 13, 2001 12:10 pm

RE: North American Charters: Soldier Transports

Tue Jan 11, 2005 10:57 am

in the grand scheme of things, who cares? So you got flipped off. BFD  Insane

If thats the worst thing that happens to you in a day consider yourself lucky.
 
tt737fo
Posts: 468
Joined: Thu Jun 07, 2001 2:13 am

RE: North American Charters: Soldier Transports

Tue Jan 11, 2005 12:50 pm

>>>"in the grand scheme of things, who cares? So you got flipped off. BFD"

Actually, it kind of is a BFD. It is a huge deal.

Regardless of anyone's viewpoint, said gesture is extremely unprofessional--especially in light of the fact that North American is operating on behalf of the US Government (the Department of Defense).

Not only would Mr McKinnon be interested in hearing about it, LtGen John R. Baker's staff at the Air Mobility Command at Scott Air Force Base would be concerned as well. The AMC public website publishes phone number 618-256-1110--you should be able to reach his office. Just sound official and ask for his chief of staff.

Be ready to provide time, location, and of course tail number of the aircraft.

BTW, keep on waving.
 
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clickhappy
Posts: 9042
Joined: Thu Sep 13, 2001 12:10 pm

RE: North American Charters: Soldier Transports

Wed Jan 12, 2005 1:18 am

You think you are going to call up the head of an airline, or a Lt. General, and tell them that a member of the flight crew of a military charter may or may not have flipped someone off?

Give me a break  Insane

 
wjcandee
Posts: 5343
Joined: Mon Jun 05, 2000 12:50 am

RE: North American Charters: Soldier Transports

Wed Jan 12, 2005 2:00 am

Clickhappy:

Respectfully, if one of my employees flipped someone off while in my uniform, I'd want to know about it. I've had plenty of folks complaint about a hell of a lot less. But that's just me.

Or maybe it isn't. Any division manager, regional manager, etc at any large retailer would want to know about a similar circumstance, to make sure that appropriate retraining occurred.

All the best,

Bill
 
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GEG
Posts: 303
Joined: Wed Oct 20, 2004 11:45 am

RE: North American Charters: Soldier Transports

Wed Jan 12, 2005 2:18 am

I would agree to let someone know. We go through constant reminders to our employees that while in company uniform or while in a vehicle bearing the company name and logo that you must be careful of your actions. They have to remember that whether they like it or not they are representing the company while in uniform and in company vehicles, and they need to act in a professional manner.
-Dan
I have no idea what I'm doing...
 
DIJKKIJK
Posts: 1787
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RE: North American Charters: Soldier Transports

Wed Jan 12, 2005 2:52 am

I glanced at the cockpit and the first officer shot me the bird

Good you didn't return the greeting. You would have made quite a sight, shooting the bird at an airplane full of American soldiers ! Laugh out loud
Never argue with idiots. They will bring you down to their level, and beat you with experience.
 
tt737fo
Posts: 468
Joined: Thu Jun 07, 2001 2:13 am

RE: North American Charters: Soldier Transports

Wed Jan 12, 2005 4:40 am

>>>You think you are going to call up the head of an airline, or a Lt. General, and tell them that a member of the flight crew of a military charter may or may not have flipped someone off?

Absolutely. This is a carrier that operates on behalf of the the Department of Defense. Paid for by YOUR (and my) tax-dollars.

Unless you have worn the uniform, there is probably little appreciation you may have of this situation. At face value, it's minor and almost comical. However, the big picture side of it--men in uniform, always the possibility of human remains in the cargo hold--it really doesn't sit well with me. I am both a crew member with a company that does military cargo charters as well as a reservist.

More than likely the LtGen will not address the complaint himself, but his staff at the AMC will. If a digitial picture of this gesture would ever surface it could lead to very serious repurcussions.

It may interest you to know that military charters can be lucrative, and each fiscal year when the contracts are re-newed, the carriers are evaluated and audited--a percentage of which is done through passenger comment cards and customer surveys. Certainly one incident of a crew member flipping the bird won't sway the AMC to dump North American, however a track record of incidents may raise the contracting team's eyebrows. The contract writers may just get the feeling along the lines of "ATA might be able to pick up the extra capacity--North American is giving us too many headaches".

The AMC does not want any black eyes--especially image problems. Nor does North American.

At the very least a formal complaint will result in disciplinary action toward an immature crew member who obviously has little or no appreciation for the men who are doing their duty in the back of the plane.

I now step down off my soap box. I'm off to fly, and I'll wave back.

 
TheLazarusman
Topic Author
Posts: 17
Joined: Sun Oct 17, 2004 2:36 pm

RE: North American Charters: Soldier Transports

Wed Jan 12, 2005 11:34 am

Thank you to everyone for your comments and suggestions. I wish I had been professional enough to think of writing down the time of day, and the tail number of the airplane; however, at the time all I could muster was the maturity not to follow the plane to it's gate and to take matters into my own hands. But I think I'll take TT737FO's advice; I'll keep on waiving!!! Thanks again.

The Lazarusman
FSA Lead
USAirways DFW
 
airstatdfw
Posts: 336
Joined: Tue Mar 30, 2004 12:04 am

RE: North American Charters: Soldier Transports

Wed Jan 12, 2005 12:00 pm

Lazarusman,

Send me an e-mail with the date and time and I will see what I can find out for you.

AirStatDFW

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