SATL382G
Topic Author
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UPS Orders 10 A380s

Tue Jan 11, 2005 8:30 am

"There’s nothing quite as exhilarating as being shot at and missed" --Winston Churchill
 
boeingfever777
Posts: 1990
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RE: UPS Orders 10 A380s

Tue Jan 11, 2005 8:36 am

Wow that is great news. Congrats to UPS and Airbus.  Big thumbs up
Faire du ciel le plus bel endroit de la terre.
 
pelican
Posts: 2429
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RE: UPS Orders 10 A380s

Tue Jan 11, 2005 8:40 am

Now, there are two American carriers that buy the A380...

pelican
 
bill142
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RE: UPS Orders 10 A380s

Tue Jan 11, 2005 8:40 am

This has been rumored for a while. The A300 deliveries had been defered anyhow and last I heard Airbus was pushing UPS to convert some orders to A380's.
 
Sabena332
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RE: UPS Orders 10 A380s

Tue Jan 11, 2005 8:42 am

Ok, this thread will stay now, an explanation can be found here.

Patrick
NZ1's mother is a disgusting crack-whore and his father is a worthless alcoholic!
 
su184
Posts: 245
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RE: UPS Orders 10 A380s

Tue Jan 11, 2005 8:43 am

Strange timing, thought they would keep it for the roll-out ceremnoy next week, do you think they have more orders to reveal in the event or in the Paris Air Show in June???
 
SATL382G
Topic Author
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RE: UPS Orders 10 A380s

Tue Jan 11, 2005 8:43 am

Thanks Patrick!!

regards
"There’s nothing quite as exhilarating as being shot at and missed" --Winston Churchill
 
whitehatter
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RE: UPS Orders 10 A380s

Tue Jan 11, 2005 8:45 am

It should mean that the A300 now has the end in sight and also the A310 as part of Airbus's current portfolio.

As they are legacy non-FBW aircraft it could even work in their favour, eliminating some expensive manufacturing capability which could have been sat idle due to UPS deferments.

With the big two freight haulers on board, wonder who will be looking next at it as a box lugger? One of the Asian carriers? Or maybe a supplemental LH order for the freight version?
Lead me not into temptation, I can find my own way there...
 
A350
Posts: 1010
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RE: UPS Orders 10 A380s

Tue Jan 11, 2005 8:52 am

I wonder if this is the end of the A300 line - and if this is really a new order in the meaning that the value of the ten A380s is higher than the value of the 37 canceld A300s.

Anyway, congratulations to Airbus and UPS.

Furthermore congratulations to the USA: they are now the second country after the UAE to have two A380 customers.

A350
 
DC10GUY
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RE: UPS Orders 10 A380s

Tue Jan 11, 2005 9:05 am

I'm happy to see UPS buy the A380. Its funny how they copy everything Fedex does. Maybe Fedex will pick up the extra A300's UPS don't want.
Next time try the old "dirty Sanchez" She'll love it !!!
 
Hirnie
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RE: UPS Orders 10 A380s

Tue Jan 11, 2005 9:12 am

Congratulations to Airbus!!!
Whitehatter,
LH-Cargo(I guess that`s what you meant) will not order some A380 or even B777LRF this year. They already explained that they (the manegament only) are happy with their MD11 and that they won`t have to make any decisions regarding the fleet before 2007. Sad but true...

Regards
 
gigneil
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RE: UPS Orders 10 A380s

Tue Jan 11, 2005 9:13 am

I think the thread that I previously wrote this in got deleted, so I'll say it again...

...my guess is this will bring the end of the A300, and the long awaited launch of the A330F.

N
 
PITrules
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RE: UPS Orders 10 A380s

Tue Jan 11, 2005 9:15 am

I am really surprised to see UPS drop that many A300 orders. If there is one company in the world that can afford them, its UPS. The A300 is a GREAT freighter airplane. In the growing air cargo market, it is an excellent replacement for the 757/767s they have. Put the A300s in Asia, and bring the 767s back to the US for domestic service.

I still don't see this as a major victory for Airbus though. Cancelling 37 A300s to pick up 10 A380s is still a net loss of 27 widebody orders, even if the A300 is an old design.
FLYi
 
SATL382G
Topic Author
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RE: UPS Orders 10 A380s

Tue Jan 11, 2005 9:18 am

..and Airbus probably could have built the A300s at a profit, whereas the A380 has yet to break even.

Your financial mileage may vary....
"There’s nothing quite as exhilarating as being shot at and missed" --Winston Churchill
 
BoeingDrew
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RE: UPS Orders 10 A380s

Tue Jan 11, 2005 9:19 am

I don't know whether to say congrats or to bad... It was obviously a good trade-off for Airbus or else they wouldn't have made the deal, but was it worth it? True they could have made the deal with the long run in mind (more A-380 orders later on), but for NOW (today) was it still an equal trade-off, or just a bad idea? Either way, congrats to UPS and Airbus...

-Drew

PS- The A380's wing is pretty sweet!  Big thumbs up
You can't build a reputation upon what you are GOING to do, but rather upon what you HAVE done!
 
gigneil
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RE: UPS Orders 10 A380s

Tue Jan 11, 2005 9:19 am

UPS is reaching the limit of their required domestic capacity, that's why they can't really use any more A300s.

They are, however, woefully under capacity on the international stage. Hence the switch of frames.

The 767s really are best for their Asian routes. The 767 has a bit more in terms of legs, which is good for the slightly longer stages between major Asian cities. The A300 is great for the really short hops here in the US.

N
 
ScottB
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RE: UPS Orders 10 A380s

Tue Jan 11, 2005 9:27 am

I don't think this is surprising to anyone in light of UPS's well-known desire to cancel most of its remaining order for new-build A300 freighters. It's a good way for both companies to save face, since it's clear that UPS will have routes on which it can use the A380F and Airbus avoids alienating an important customer and gets a win for the A380 program.
 
aerobalance
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RE: UPS Orders 10 A380s

Tue Jan 11, 2005 9:28 am

Wow,

Will we see A380's at ONT in the near future?
"Sing a song, play guitar, make it snappy..."
 
cedarjet
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RE: UPS Orders 10 A380s

Tue Jan 11, 2005 9:34 am

I think 10 A380s is worth 37 A300s. Despite staying in production for thirty years, the A300 has never made any money - the start-up costs of Airbus were so great (and mainly billed to the A300 program) that it would never recoup. The first Airbus to make money was the A320.

The way I see it, it's true the A380 isn't profitable but unlike the A300, it will be, and these 10 frames take them closer to the target. The A380 is the most important civil aviation project of modern times, and after taking it this far, Airbus will do whatever it takes. An order for ten - and finally close down a historic but faded product as well to make room for the A350? Absolutely!!
fly Saha Air 707s daily from Tehran's downtown Mehrabad to Mashhad, Kish Island and Ahwaz
 
hawk44
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RE: UPS Orders 10 A380s

Tue Jan 11, 2005 9:36 am

The pic on the UPS site actually looks good IMO.
Never under estimate the power of US
 
dtw9
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RE: UPS Orders 10 A380s

Tue Jan 11, 2005 9:36 am

I will be surpised if UPS ever takes delivery of these aircraft. Stuck with an order for A300s that they did not want and no way of selling or transfering these orders to another carrier and Airbus not letting them out of the contract, left UPS with little choice but to order A380s or risk losing millions in deposits. Buy ordering A380s gives them the option of selling off these aircraft or if the A380 does not live up to promises, back out of the contract altogether. Not like it hasn't happened before ALA Northwest A340, TWA A330
 
gigneil
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RE: UPS Orders 10 A380s

Tue Jan 11, 2005 9:37 am

That's ridiculous. This was a right-sizing of the order to match the capacity that UPS now needs.

It was a good move for both parties.

N
 
CRPilot
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RE: UPS Orders 10 A380s

Tue Jan 11, 2005 9:40 am

The other thread got deleted, so I'll ask my question again:

With UPS coming onboard with the A380, how many more airports are going to be reconfigured here in the States?
Flying is a privilege!
 
dtw9
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RE: UPS Orders 10 A380s

Tue Jan 11, 2005 9:41 am

IF thats ridiculous why the 2011 delivery postions. UPS has never been a trend setter when ordering aircraft ,they always go with mature product lines AKA 767 A300 757
 
whitehatter
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RE: UPS Orders 10 A380s

Tue Jan 11, 2005 9:41 am

LH-Cargo(I guess that`s what you meant) will not order some A380 or even B777LRF this year. They already explained that they (the manegament only) are happy with their MD11 and that they won`t have to make any decisions regarding the fleet before 2007. Sad but true...

None of which means they won't be ordering later. It seems to be an airliners.net idea which has gained its own life, that all orders have to be in before the first one flies!

LH Cargo could well be in there later on, as air freight is growing year on year and LH will have the technical support in place.
Lead me not into temptation, I can find my own way there...
 
gigneil
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RE: UPS Orders 10 A380s

Tue Jan 11, 2005 9:46 am

IF thats ridiculous why the 2011 delivery postions.

The deliveries begin in 2009. You apparently pulled that date out of nowhere.

Keep in mind the first 380F won't even fly until 2008, and has to be certified after that. UPS is taking probably the very first available ones in there with FX's 10, EK's 2, and ILFC's 5.

UPS launched the 767F, and required modifications to the 757 before agreeing to fly either.

N
 
william
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RE: UPS Orders 10 A380s

Tue Jan 11, 2005 9:47 am

Nice spin Cedarjet.................Anyway,congrats to Airbus and UPS. The order makes ECONOMIC sense. UPS is competing with Fedex on routes from the USA to Asia where air rights to certain countries are limited (remember this was Airbus reason for making the A380). So in essence this fits the A380 profile perfectly.

I don't see other Cargo companies such as Atlas or Polar buying the A380 because of their 747 fleet. But heck if Airbus makes a sweet enough deal,lowball purchase price,nice spare parts package,and maybe a aircraft buyback (their 747s),then they may have a deal


[Edited 2005-01-11 02:05:14]
 
gigneil
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RE: UPS Orders 10 A380s

Tue Jan 11, 2005 9:49 am

The A380 doesn't fit the mission profile of Atlas or Polar, nor would Airbus engage in a buyback of 747s.

N
 
dtw9
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RE: UPS Orders 10 A380s

Tue Jan 11, 2005 9:52 am

original stories stated 2011 so I did'nt pull it out of the air . also the 767 was a mature program and proven airframe before UPS ordered their freighters
 
usairways85
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RE: UPS Orders 10 A380s

Tue Jan 11, 2005 10:06 am

So now what airports will see the UPS A380. I'd assume SDF since it's their main hub, other than that i know PHL has 5 or 6 flts to Europe on the weekdays and ANC has a few flts to Asia. I dont know where else they'd use the A380.
 
wgw2707
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RE: UPS Orders 10 A380s

Tue Jan 11, 2005 10:06 am

I agree that now is definitely the time for Airbus to scrap the life-expired A300/A310 family. The A300/A310 series lacks the commonality that characterizes the rest of the Airbus product offering, and with the new A350 entering into development and the A321 and A330-200 nicely framing the edge of the A300-310 capacity range, the logic for producing a single additional A300 series airframe is non-existant. While Airbus has done a great job minimizing the costs of producing these mature designs on a low-volume basis, there are still added costs, and so it is simply irrational to continue further.

It should be interesting seeing what the A380 can do for Brown.

-WGW2707
 
transswede
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RE: UPS Orders 10 A380s

Tue Jan 11, 2005 10:09 am

How about ONT? It would certainly be sweet for me... About my only chance to see an A380 in person...  Smile
 
transswede
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RE: UPS Orders 10 A380s

Tue Jan 11, 2005 10:12 am

Here is a link to an rendering of the A380 in UPS colors:

http://pressroom.ups.com/staticfiles/images/354_low_res.jpg
 
Velasco
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RE: UPS Orders 10 A380s

Tue Jan 11, 2005 10:19 am

TransSwede, that is a wonderful rendering of the A380..! I know there's not a chance I might one day see one of those birds at Lisbon but I surely would love to come across that plane somewhere else (sigh...). It seems to me this could be one of the most beautiful A380 liveries. Hope they get those planes!
Lisboa-Rio on the A340... São Pedro e São Paulo down below...
 
Hirnie
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RE: UPS Orders 10 A380s

Tue Jan 11, 2005 11:09 am

@WHIThatter:
I`m totally with you stating that LHC might (and will for sure) put big orders for freighters in the future. I only wanted to enlighten that LHC for the next two years will not be a candidate for a big deal(really sad)...so be happy and please don`t feel offended because this is really off topic!!!

Regards
 
unitedkatw
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RE: UPS Orders 10 A380s

Tue Jan 11, 2005 11:19 am

SWEET! I am proud of UPS to order these. Hopefully they'll also buy some B7E7's also.
 
ltbewr
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RE: UPS Orders 10 A380s

Tue Jan 11, 2005 11:24 am

It's too bad the first A380's we will probably see in the USA will be freighters ;( , but at least with UPS putting in some early orders, maybe it will get the A380 program a good start, and UPS will get the a/c needed to compete on Asian, some Euro routes where slot space is limited.
 
Hirnie
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RE: UPS Orders 10 A380s

Tue Jan 11, 2005 11:26 am

Be sure they will...
 Big thumbs up

Regards
 
QFA001
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RE: UPS Orders 10 A380s

Tue Jan 11, 2005 1:05 pm

UPS has never been a trend setter when ordering aircraft ,they always go with mature product lines AKA 767 A300 757

You'd struggle to find a more 'trend-setting' cargoline than UPS:

  • UPS launched the B757-200PF in 1985

  • UPS launched the B727-100QF Tay 651 re-engine program in 1990

  • UPS launched the B767-300F in 1993


  • The only difference between their A380F order and some previous movements (such as the B757PF and B767F) is that the A380 isn't yet in pax service.
     
    dtw9
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    RE: UPS Orders 10 A380s

    Tue Jan 11, 2005 1:20 pm


    QFA001

    Were not talking derivitives , Yes freighters are derivitives of pass aircraft. All the aircraft you mention were MATURE airframes, tried and tested as passenger aircraft first, with, as you'll note, at least 5 years of service before UPS placed an order. They are not trend setters. UPS had little choice but to place this order or lose millions, but this is my opinion and you're entitled to yours. This is an airline that 5 years ago thought they needed up to 150 A300s , now all of a sudden they only need 53,big difference. Check the price of 37 A300 freighters i'll bet its pretty close to the price of 10 A380s.
     
    SATL382G
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    RE: UPS Orders 10 A380s

    Tue Jan 11, 2005 2:07 pm

    I think the winner in this deal is going to be the guy who makes/sells the A380 capable cargo loaders. UPS is going to need 15-20 and there hasn't been a lot of market until today...  Smile/happy/getting dizzy
    "There’s nothing quite as exhilarating as being shot at and missed" --Winston Churchill
     
    gigneil
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    RE: UPS Orders 10 A380s

    Tue Jan 11, 2005 2:16 pm

    It's too bad the first A380's we will probably see in the USA will be freighters

    Nah, you'll see a whole slew of them at LAX and JFK.  Smile/happy/getting dizzy

    N
     
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    RayChuang
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    RE: UPS Orders 10 A380s

    Tue Jan 11, 2005 2:24 pm

    I think UPS ordering 10 A380-800F's may mean FedEx may up the number of A388F's they will buy. People here have to remember that transpacific air freight service is a rapidly growing business and having the ability to avoid stopping at ANC between the USA and eastern Asian destinations is a major plus.

    This may force FedEx to really base a small number of A388F's at OAK.
     
    BlatantEcho
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    RE: UPS Orders 10 A380s

    Tue Jan 11, 2005 2:44 pm

    wouldn't the A388F be field limited out of OAK? What's the runway there, 9,000'? I know UPS gets their 741s out of there ok, but how will a full A380 to Asia work with that length?

    George
    They're not handing trophies out today
     
    UPS Pilot
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    RE: UPS Orders 10 A380s

    Tue Jan 11, 2005 3:31 pm

    The A300 contract had options to convert some A300's to a possible A330f or A380f.

    The A300 was purchased when UPS bought Challenge Air Cargo. The demand for the 75 in Latin America was high at the moment. With the 721 and DC-8 retirements imminant. The A300 was in much need then. The A306 is a regional freighter. It doesn't have the range of the 763. International growth is quite higher than domestic.

    As far as UPS copying Fed Ex, thats misinformation. UPS actually started aircargo service long before Fed Ex. UPS used scheduled passenger airlines until 1982. Fed Ex did use their own airplanes first. UPS was established before Fed Ex founder Fred Smith was even a twinkle in his parents eyes. No offense Fred  Smile. Fed Ex had no ground until 1998's aquisition of Calibre/RPS. Fed Ex hush kitted their 721 fleet. UPS re-engined theirs and also updated avionics and installed HUD. Fed Ex only operated DC-8s breifly after the Tiger aquisition. UPS operates the largest fleet of DC-8s. Fed Ex operated the 747 for a short time. UPS at one time had over 20 74's in fleet.
    ups launched the 75/76 freighters. Fed Ex never operated the type. Fed Ex uses DC-10's. UPS doesn't. UPS' A300 has been designed to haul one more can than the Fed Ex A300. Fed Ex operates a large 722 fleet. UPS operated I think only 5 which all have been sold. I could go on.

    I'm still a skeptic as far as A380 performance but this order is needed for both UPS and Airbus.

    As previously said UPS was to announce LRF plans in December. This was a hint.

    http://www.airliners.net/discussions/general_aviation/read.main/1885158/6/
     
    DC10GUY
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    RE: UPS Orders 10 A380s

    Tue Jan 11, 2005 4:43 pm

    Nice post UPS pilot, UPS Bought their first airplanes in 1981 in order to copy Fedex's express overnite biz. UPS didn't take over operating their own "air package feeders" until 1987 after much pressure form the FAA, ( Thanks Mr. T Allan McCarter ). Customer demand plays the biggest part in what happens in the air freight biz these days. I think Fedex just recognizes it first. I hope Fedex picks up some more new A300's before they stop building them.
    Next time try the old "dirty Sanchez" She'll love it !!!
     
    N754PR
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    RE: UPS Orders 10 A380s

    Tue Jan 11, 2005 10:44 pm

    Great news for Airbus and UPS. IT's about time the UPS scheme was seen on a NEW heavy!!

    Shame about the A300's but all good things must come to an end.
    Bush, your a sad, sad man.
     
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    glideslope
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    RE: UPS Orders 10 A380s

    Tue Jan 11, 2005 11:05 pm


    UPS Pilot,

    Great post. Nice history lesson on the 721 hush kits versus the more long term performance driven approach by UPS.

    Nice to see another 380 performance skeptic. It's not easy to question the Bus in A.net, and live another day.  Smile
    To know your Enemy, you must become your Enemy.” Sun Tzu
     
    SATL382G
    Topic Author
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    RE: UPS Orders 10 A380s

    Tue Jan 11, 2005 11:41 pm

    One tidbit UPS pilot left out: FedEx launched the production 722F.
    "There’s nothing quite as exhilarating as being shot at and missed" --Winston Churchill
     
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    tjwgrr
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    RE: UPS Orders 10 A380s

    Wed Jan 12, 2005 12:03 am

    Direct KNOBS, maintain 2700' until established on the localizer, cleared ILS runway 26 left approach.

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