Since I happen to be an IATA certified tariff expert, let me be the first to fire back the questions: (For the rest of you, please be patient. If not, go to the bottom of this post and you will understand why I am asking these questions and making these comments. Hopefully, then you'll understand a little better).
- THANK GOD!!! Now we only have to know ONE set of rules instead of four! Note: For those of you who are not tariff experts:
=Sold Inside, SO=Sold Outside, TI
=Ticketed Inside, TO
Country of Origin of Travel.
This means that for each type of ticket, there is a set of fare construction rules that must be followed and each step in the fare calculation process has a rule variance. If IATA is getting rid of this nonsense, then this is a huge simplification of the process, since it will only be necessary to know one set of construction rules.
: RESO 17b - I presume you are referring to what we used to call backhaul. (God, I think I'm showing my age!! Yes, I am old enough to know what FCUs are.....and folks, it ISN
'T what you think it is).
: HIP check (I have to ask this question first before I get into the minimum fare checks questions: Please clarify this for me: On Normal Fare HIP Checks:
a) origin to "stopover" not "ticketed" point
b) from "stopover" point to "stopover" point in the direction of travel
c) from "stopover" to destination.
the important point being the distinction between stopover and ticketed point. This is a radical change in all parts of the world except ex USA, since all HIP points for normal fares ex USA are calculated based on 'stopover' points and have been for a number of years.
CTM Checks - Normal Fares: (Circle Trip Minimum fare check) You don't state any chances for normal fares; however, you do for special fares. Since the rules for calculating HIP points on special fares uses the same methodology as the normal fare CTM construction rules, can we assume that CTM construction rules have changed also?
Also, since the CTM check used to be stated as the highest fare between any two points on the circle, what we are now saying (if I understand correctly) is that the CTM check would be between any two "stopover" points in the direction of travel. Thoughts?
Reissues and Reroutes:
:RESO 17f- Voluntary Reissue of wholly unused tickets. Reissue is based on new fare and new ROE. I have really never reissued a wholly unused ticket and refunded it for a new ticket unless the point of origin changes and the itinerary is completely different. However, if the point of origin and destination remain the same and I am making routing changes to the itinerary, I have always reissued the ticket from point of origin with the new fare, new ROE, new BBR (if issued SOTO
)...and charged the difference in local currency. If I am taking in a ticket issued in Italy and reissuing the entire ticket in USD, then I would simply recalculate the fare in NUC, subtract the amount in NUC from the old ticket, arrive at the amount in EUR at the current ROE and then collect the difference in USD at today's BBR. I'm not sure I see what is different.
Note: This is only for VOLUNTARY reroutings. If this were an involutary rerouting and I am at the airport, then I am going to FIM them off to ourselves via a different routing, or over another carrier (with whom we have a favorable FIM agreement). I would never take the time to reissue a ticket like that. It would take too much time and the priority at the airport is to process the passengers and get them out of town on time.
DMC (Directional Minimum Checks) - GONE!!! Finally. Expect for the poor schmo going to/from Japan who has his ticket issued outside Japan. Does the DMC check still only apply to normal fares and EE type special fares (mileage special fares that permit stops)? Also, does the stupid DMC rule still exist that if the LON-TYO J fare is NUC2500 and the TYO-LON J fare is NUC3500, then if you are going one way to Tokyo, the fare has to be raised to the TYO-LON level? This is the way I interpret what you are saying. Note: This rule does not apply to tickets issued within the USA.
The advantages of these fare rules to the average consumer:
a) One set of fare construction rules worldwide (except in USA, where we have mostly accepted the SITI
b) Higher Intermediate Points (HIP) checks are based on stopovers - not ticketed points, e.g: Routing: SFO
-X/LON-PAR. Fares: SFO
-LON J USD4000.00, SFO
-PAR USD3000.00. Since passenger is not stopping in LON, fare is USD3000.00.
c) If passenger were to stop in LON, fare would be USD4000.00, instead of USD5000.00 (SFOLON-SFOPAR = DSFOLON + SFOLON (HIP))...elimination of COM fare check?
d) Circle Trip Minimum fare check applies to normal/special fares with mileage and stopover provisions and is based on "stopover" points and not ticketed points and based on fares in the direction of travel...not "between" points.
e.g. Routing: SFO
J Class. All fares One way: SFO
-PAR USD3000. LAX
-LON USD4500.00. LAX
-PAR USD3500. Highest fare one way, LAX
-LON USD4500.00 X 2 =USD9000.00 is minimum fare (Circle Trip Minimum)
passenger connecting in LAX
and not stopping, then highest one way fare is SFO
-LON USD4000.00 X 2 = USD8000 minimum fare. So, SFOPAR USD6000.00 plus USD2000 DSFOLONSFOPAR, total fare USD8000.00.
e) Lastly, DMC Check only applies to tickets issued to/from Japan, whichever direction produces the highest fare is the fare that is used for the oneway or round trip journey, no matter where the passenger originates.
EXCEPTION: If tickets are issued in USA.
Notes: The USA has not had to follow a lot of these cumbersome rules for the past 20 years. The DOT ruled that we could use whatever fare calculation rule necessary to produce the lowest fare. Ah, another reason why you need a travel agent schooled in international pricing. How do you know the airline will calculate the fare? Especially one that is foreign based? There are VERY few travel agents who know the rules, but if you find one, they are GOLDEN.
We can apply rules to pricing which are completely legitimate but produce a lower fare than the airline will produce.
In addition, do not trust the airline computer systems. They are only as good as the programmmers. While I will admit the systems are getting better, they are still not perfect and on some occassions (not as many as before) I can still generate a lower price than the computer for the same itinerary.
So, PA110, what do you think. Am I getting this right, or am I just getting senile? In my previous posts, I have said I've been around the block a few times...this was one of them.
To those out there who think we have completely gone MAD
, know this, PA110 knows how to play the game. Anyone who has this kind of intimate knowledge of the IATA pricing rules and the DOT ruling that allows us in the USA to get around those rules certainly knows his stuff....and he is certainly more up on it than I am...hence my questions. I am interested, because I do get involved with some complex international journeys and a lot of what I do involves issuance of tickets outside of the USA to gain a fare advantage over sometimes overly priced tickets (especially in F and J class) from the USA to points abroad, especially in Europe.
PA110, I would appreciate your thoughts and thanks again for bringing this to our attention. I'll bet not many understand it...but hopefully, by the time this thread really gets going, we will have educated a few people on the subject...and congrats for being the FIRST on my respected users list.
David L. Lamb, fmr Area Mgr Alitalia SFO 1998-2002, fmr Regional Analyst SFO-UAL 1992-1998