flybyguy
Posts: 1415
Joined: Sun Jun 27, 2004 12:52 pm

Airbus A380 "Target For Terror"

Wed Jan 12, 2005 2:15 pm

In light of the Airbus A380's world debut this month. I have received feedback from close friends indicating that if an A380 crashes it can involve upwards of 550 passengers. Larger derivatives have this number approach 1000. Mixing two larger-derivative A380s and you have a disaster on the scale of the World Trade Center attacks.

Does the sheer size of the A380 make it a more appealing target for Terrorist networks attempting to achieve maximum casualties with minimum effort?



[Edited 2005-01-12 06:23:08]
"Are you a pretender... or a thoroughbred?!" - Professor Matt Miller
 
Jean Leloup
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RE: Airbus A380 "Target For Terror"

Wed Jan 12, 2005 2:20 pm

Why, then, did Al-Qaeda not target 747's? Or even 777's? Or evrn 340's?

IMHO, such an argument is B.S. If we are going to assume that terrorists will attack whatever is biggest, maybe we should stop building new buildings that are, say, bigger than an A380.  Big grin
Next flight.... who knows.
 
EZEIZA
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RE: Airbus A380 "Target For Terror"

Wed Jan 12, 2005 3:06 pm

Why does everything have to be 'terror related' these days? The 380 has never even left the ground and already the terror threat is spreading
Carp aunque ganes o pierdas ...
 
TWAMD-80
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RE: Airbus A380 "Target For Terror"

Wed Jan 12, 2005 3:10 pm

I think that if terrorists were to go primarily for an airliner to bring down that they'd naturally go for the larger plane to inflict more casualties. I think that the reason we didn't see bigger planes used on 9-11 was because the 767/757 were lightly loaded and full of fuel for a cross country flight (unfortunately it got the job done for the terrorists). A 747 would likely have had more passengers aboard which could carry the possibility of the passengers combating the plans of the terrorist scum.

TW
Two A-4's, left ten o'clock level continue left turn!
 
hawk44
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RE: Airbus A380 "Target For Terror"

Wed Jan 12, 2005 3:17 pm

500 vs 19 is not a real good idea. TWA hit the nail on the head they chose those flights because they new they would be dealing with less people. Best advice would be don't worry about it.
Never under estimate the power of US
 
flybyguy
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RE: Airbus A380 "Target For Terror"

Wed Jan 12, 2005 3:39 pm

I did not mean terrorists commandeering an aircraft just merely shooting one down or suicide bombing one. After all, the TSA swabs baggage for explosives, but a carefully arranged wallet packed with C4 plastic explosives can elude security screenings in the back pocket of any terrorist. In the era of online seat selections a terrorist need only to select a seat in the vicinity of his target aircraft's belly fuel tanks to accomplish his wicked task.

I think women may be even better at hiding plastic explosives by stuffing it into their braziers.
"Are you a pretender... or a thoroughbred?!" - Professor Matt Miller
 
B2707SST
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RE: Airbus A380 "Target For Terror"

Wed Jan 12, 2005 3:53 pm

IMHO, the risk of terrorism is the worst of the usual arguments against the A380. For one thing, the aircraft is only 25% bigger than the 747-400, and 9/11 proved that even relatively small aircraft can be devastating in the wrong hands. If taken to its logical conclusion, this argument would have us flying around on Beechcraft 1900s.

The key to combating aviation terrorism is prevention. Once the bomb, hijacker, missile, etc. gets through, the aircraft type is mostly irrelevant.

--B2707SST
Keynes is dead and we are living in his long run.
 
hawk44
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RE: Airbus A380 "Target For Terror"

Wed Jan 12, 2005 4:09 pm

Fly it's a little more complicated then just putting C4 in your wallet. The right measures are in place and like I said before I wouldn't worry about it.
Never under estimate the power of US
 
Udo
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RE: Airbus A380 "Target For Terror"

Wed Jan 12, 2005 4:21 pm

*WARNING*WARNING*WARNING*

Stop building skyscrapers? Stop cruise ships? Stop Japanese domestic 550-seating B747s?

*PARANOIA*PARANOIA*PARANOIA


The arguments against the A380 get more and more insane...and the funny thing is: they won't stop the project! Sorry guys, try something else!  Smile/happy/getting dizzy


Regards
Udo
Me & You & a Plane Named Blue...
 
sevenair
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RE: Airbus A380 "Target For Terror"

Wed Jan 12, 2005 5:12 pm

depends-the next 9-11 (like the first one) will occur where and when Bush wants it to-if you wanna know if/when the a380 will be hit ask him-saying that the a380 is potentially a significant competitor to certain US aircraft manufacturers-he complained about govt money which airbus was recieving-how better to get his own back than blowing up (of getting 'the tyrant' or 'the killers who kill') to blast the flagship out of the sky?
 
FlySSC
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RE: Airbus A380 "Target For Terror"

Wed Jan 12, 2005 6:32 pm

 Insane Oh God !!! "Miss U.S Paranoïa 2005" is back !!!!  Insane

Let's all stay at home, buy tons of kalashnikov, close doors and windows, and pray !!!
 
a380900
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RE: Airbus A380 "Target For Terror"

Wed Jan 12, 2005 7:06 pm

Too much Fox News watching is dangerous for your mental health. Besides "terror" has no target. A terrorist strike has a target.
 
yhz78
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RE: Airbus A380 "Target For Terror"

Wed Jan 12, 2005 7:09 pm

In addition to the above reasons given about light loads and high fuel the B757 and B767 were also ideal to the terrorists because of the cockpit similarities. We might as well start making every cockpit completely different as well to make it even harder for the terrorists should they ever get that far again.
Canada Rocks! From the west coast to the best coast!
 
dtwa320
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RE: Airbus A380 "Target For Terror"

Wed Jan 12, 2005 7:35 pm

I think most of the things Americans say annoy the French... vice versa  Smile/happy/getting dizzy Sebolino... you don't have to listen to the term "terror"... every television or radio comes with an on off switch. Smile/happy/getting dizzy
 
na
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RE: Airbus A380 "Target For Terror"

Wed Jan 12, 2005 7:40 pm

The USA are the prime target of global terrorism, the A380 a European product that will be mostly operated by airlines from countries who do not invade whole countries (or do not support that) to fight terrorism.
Besides that I do not think that terrorists would choose a certain airliner for their horrible "work" logic has it that a 777 would be a far more fitting object ...

But, paranoia doesn´t help nobody. Somehow I´m getting tired of all those threads here who try to downwrite the A380s success and rightful existence.
There is so much obvious envy and jealousy in it.
 
BestWestern
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RE: Airbus A380 "Target For Terror"

Wed Jan 12, 2005 7:51 pm

DTW - I think most things non American annoy Americans, and to a much lesser extent vice versa.

You are 100 times more likely to catch a cold on a flight than an average person!
 
skidmarks
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RE: Airbus A380 "Target For Terror"

Wed Jan 12, 2005 8:05 pm

Meow!!!!!!!!!

Need plenty of saucers of milk for this one chaps!

Ring the milk marketing board for extra supplies!

Grow up boys and stop being silly.

Andy  Nuts
Growing old is compulsory, growing up is optional
 
NumberTwelve
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RE: Airbus A380 "Target For Terror"

Wed Jan 12, 2005 8:10 pm

Great topic, as Udo mentioned. Lets stop building skyscrapers, cruise ships, planes with more than 400 seats, airports with more than lets say 1,000 passengers a day, etc.

Have put this terror target onto the Number5 list of "good" reasons to avoid the 380.

http://www.airliners.net/discussions/general_aviation/read.main/1901085/

How many people did an AA767 kill?

@Flyssc: "Let's all stay at home, buy tons of kalashnikov, close doors and windows, and pray !!! "
Don't make this suggestion, gas masks have been sold out in lots of US shops before Iraq War began because people believed what US admin said.

So there is no need to make panic, it's a tawdrily propaganda - shameless.

signature censored by admin - so check my profile
 
dtwa320
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RE: Airbus A380 "Target For Terror"

Wed Jan 12, 2005 8:12 pm

I believe that's a valid point, BestWestern. On a personal level European or world "things" don't annoy me at all. I still get up every other weekend, and watch the F1 races from Europe, and beyond. And I may one of the few Americans on A.net looking forward to the A380... something I've been looking forward to for a very long time. Some Americans may "tune out" those countries we have disagreements with, but I believe most of us are perceptive to what the world has to say.
 
couzinet70
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RE: Airbus A380 "Target For Terror"

Wed Jan 12, 2005 8:13 pm

Could you please have the decency to let this plane roll-out of his factory, be presented to the press and to the great team of people & supliers who have built it before talking about his destruction !!!!!!!!!

And please, for the sake of aerospace industry and airlines, let's not play with topic like these. I really do not undertand your motivation Flybyguy ??????
 
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solnabo
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RE: Airbus A380 "Target For Terror"

Wed Jan 12, 2005 9:16 pm

"BE AFRAID.........BE VERY AFRAID"!!!

The US paranoia is spreading like wildfire on this topic!! Jeeeehhhh, watta bunch of cow manure.

Micke/SE  Insane
Airbus SAS - Love them both
 
chris78cpr
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RE: Airbus A380 "Target For Terror"

Wed Jan 12, 2005 9:22 pm

Why worry???

The peace of mind of say a few thousand individuals isn't going to do anything to Airbus's proposed production plans of the A380, so i suggest not worrying about it. If you feel unsafe about don't fly it!

Chris
5D2/7D/1D2(soon to be a 1Dx) 17-40L/24-105L/70-200F2.8L/100-400L/24F1.4LII/50F1.2L/85F1.2LII
 
gearup
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RE: Airbus A380 "Target For Terror"

Wed Jan 12, 2005 9:42 pm

It seems that as the A380's entry into service gets closer, as it looms larger on the world stage and as the day appoaches when it supplants the 747 as the Queen of the skies, it seems to annoy those people who suffer from Not-invented-here-syndrome (NIHS) more and more. There has been a constant stream of drivel about potential problems, failures etc. about the A380. Where are the true airliner fans, those that are excited about flight, those that can appluad the engineering effort being made to build such a beautiful machine as the A380. Lets celebrate this achievement just as we did when the 777 was born and many others before it. This time, the biggest and best comes from Europe, get over it people. Shove all the politics and nationalistic claptrap up where the sun don't shine!

GU
I have no memory of this place.
 
A350
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RE: Airbus A380 "Target For Terror"

Wed Jan 12, 2005 10:07 pm

I contrast to most others in this thread, I do think that among all types of a/c the A380 is the most attractive for terrorists and many terrorists dream about attacking one.

However, past 9/11 safety standards are high and attacking an a/c became extremely difficult for terrorists anyway. There is no absolute safety, but the risk is very low.

And the point there Udo is right is that we should never allow terrorists to dictate us what to do and what not to do, so continue to build skycrapers, big planes, etc.

A350
 
gilesdavies
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RE: Airbus A380 "Target For Terror"

Wed Jan 12, 2005 10:16 pm

I am getting really bored with these "Anti" A380 forums, where do people get some of this shit from!

In Japan many 747-400's are flown in an all Y configuration and these hold 500+ passengers, you dont hear any scare mongering about these and possibility if one of these crash.

If they are such terrorist threats why in the 9/11 tradegy did Al-Queda not use the 777 or 747 for maximum impact???

We should be celebrating engineering and technology at its finest! Regardless of if it is an Airbus or Boeing aircraft, this is one of the most exciting things to happen in civil aviation since the launch of the 747 or Concorde.
 
NoUFO
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RE: Airbus A380 "Target For Terror"

Wed Jan 12, 2005 10:27 pm

Terrorists may dream of attacking an A380 but size is secondary. First rule is that they will be able to carry out the act of terrorism "successfully". Terrorists have used 767s and 757s on Sept. 11 and launched missiles against an Israeli 757.
Size does matter but it's obviously not their primary concern. Imagine a Swiss A380 (yeah, I know) and an US 767. Which one is more likely to become a target?

550 people are what you'll find on almost every ferry on the baltic sea.
I support the right to arm bears
 
DAYflyer
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RE: Airbus A380 "Target For Terror"

Wed Jan 12, 2005 11:48 pm

I think that the operators, manufacturer and airport authorities have already developed comprehensive anti-terror plans for the aircraft.
One Nation Under God
 
goomba
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RE: Airbus A380 "Target For Terror"

Thu Jan 13, 2005 12:03 am

The terrorists targeted the 757 & 767 aircraft on 9/11 because that's the aircraft type that they were able to get some level of training on. Also to mention that the cockpits of the 757 & 767 are basically identical.

If the terrorists were to try their wicked ways again similar to a 9/11 style attack, they'd have to be minimally proficient to the aircraft type that they choose.

I'm fairly confident in saying that no one that doesn't belong near the cockpit of the A380 has been allowed to go near it.
 
N79969
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RE: Airbus A380 "Target For Terror"

Thu Jan 13, 2005 12:24 am

I agree with the Airbus crowd on this one. To argue that the A380 presents some greater risk because terrorists would be drawn to it is absurd. As someone has pointed out there are plenty of large airplanes in service already.

I do not think we should let terrorists or the fear they seek to spread determine how large an airplane should be.
 
NumberTwelve
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RE: Airbus A380 "Target For Terror"

Thu Jan 13, 2005 12:28 am

N79: "I do not think we should let terrorists or the fear they seek to spread determine how large an airplane should be."

This already happened, N79, it's sort of paranoia which is supported by some governments. And imagine: a Caribbean cruise vessel from Princess, Carnival with more than 2000 passengers on board must be much more interesting target. And most of them US Americans, so I wouldn't fear flying 380 for terror reasons. I would fear flying 380 because I also don't want to fly in a plane with 3-4-3 seating in Eco - too big, I would prefer 767, 340, 330, etc. But even this types have been targets for terrorists. So what? Que sera sera.

signature censored by admin - so check my profile
 
NumberTwelve
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RE: Airbus A380 "Target For Terror"

Thu Jan 13, 2005 12:38 am

Cwapilot:
who is interested in your political statements?
And concerning Udo's "rant": He's just tired (as lots of people here) to hear all this paranoia which is spreaded and to hear all those 380 disaster theories.

So don't be complaint when people are laughing about it, this can't be taken seriously.
signature censored by admin - so check my profile
 
cwapilot
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RE: Airbus A380 "Target For Terror"

Thu Jan 13, 2005 12:50 am

Apparently the people who posted their nonsense in the above posts, since they can't expect to post them without having them responded to. Don't fault me for responding to that which others have said...just because it fits in with your viewpoint doesn't make it infallable and above question or response.

I have heard the "disaster thoery" and have joined with most everyone else with an IQ above that of a cat in rejecting it. I would have to say, though, that the public is not going to be as forgiving of other Airbus model prototype crashes, if that is what occurs with this one, so you had better hope it is next to perfect.

What I tire of is how, when anyone questions any aspect of this aircraft, even legitimate questions, or the same sorts of doubts others are expressing about the 7e7, or even saying that they think it's ugly, they are labeled as some sort of American facist who would kill themselves rather than live a day in which a European aircraft is larger than an American one. That, I laugh at, as it can't be taken seriously either. I find it comical that it matters so much to people in Europe that each of the Airbus aricraft has to have some superlative attached ot it vis a vis its American counterpart....bigger, longer, quieter....anything -ER (well, apparently not ugliER). Who the hell cares?!


[Edited 2005-01-12 16:52:39]
Southside Irish...our two teams are the White Sox and whoever plays the Cubs!
 
NumberTwelve
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RE: Airbus A380 "Target For Terror"

Thu Jan 13, 2005 12:56 am

Cwapilot, forget it, watch Fox and agree with us: the Terror theory is nonsense.
signature censored by admin - so check my profile
 
cwapilot
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RE: Airbus A380 "Target For Terror"

Thu Jan 13, 2005 1:05 am

I already agreed the terror theory is nonsense...why bring up your Fox nonsense again? I will continue to watch Fox/CNN and all of the other news sources I use, which are mainly print sources. You can't always believe everything you see on TV...or in the NY Times...right? And, to your delight, I don't even find the 380 ugly...I do, however, see potential operatioanl problems they will need to overcome...the evacuation thing with 853 people should be interesting...doesn't mean I am writing the project off as a failure, either.

Southside Irish...our two teams are the White Sox and whoever plays the Cubs!
 
ltbewr
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RE: Airbus A380 "Target For Terror"

Thu Jan 13, 2005 1:12 am

Why should the A380 or any aircraft be any more of a target than Times Square in NYC or the mall area of Washington, DC or central London by use of a chemical/bio/nuke dirty bomb? Yes, hitting the biggest a/c with a missle would be a rich target for 'Islamic' based terrorists, but there are other ways to terrorize that may be far easier, and far more devestating that attacking an aircraft.
 
CarbHeatIn
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RE: Airbus A380 "Target For Terror"

Thu Jan 13, 2005 1:20 am

Are we allowed call the A380 the "Queen Mother of the Skies"?
 
cwapilot
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RE: Airbus A380 "Target For Terror"

Thu Jan 13, 2005 1:25 am

Are we allowed call the A380 the "Queen Mother of the Skies"?
-If the "Queen Mother" is named Bertha...although the nose section does give more of an endearing Homer Simpson look...

Southside Irish...our two teams are the White Sox and whoever plays the Cubs!
 
alphascan
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RE: Airbus A380 "Target For Terror"

Thu Jan 13, 2005 1:26 am

AMEN, Cwa, AMEN.

Thank you for your level headed, backed up with evidence, no nonsense, mature response(s).

If everyone on this board would have back up their opinions with evidence, we'd have a lot less drivel being spewed.
"To he who only has a hammer in his toolbelt, every problem looks like a nail."
 
Alessandro
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RE: Airbus A380 "Target For Terror"

Thu Jan 13, 2005 1:44 am

So how many successful hi-jacking after 010911?
If you want to crash into a major building why not hi-jack an AN-124 instead?
From New Yorqatar to Califarbia...
 
BAtripleseven
Posts: 38
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RE: Airbus A380 "Target For Terror"

Thu Jan 13, 2005 1:44 am

The A380 hasnt even been off the groud yet...
 
petazulu
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RE: Airbus A380 "Target For Terror"

Thu Jan 13, 2005 1:52 am

I like the A380, but I don't think it is a silly thing to bring up that the A380 is a juicy target for terrorism. So is a 747. the bigger than plane, the more attention it will get in the press. No one cares if a cessna is hijacked or shot down. I would argue that people would care proportionatly more about larger and larger planes/ body count. In that regard, the A380 leads the list.

But in the end, all that means is that security should be taken seriously. It does not mean that it should not be built (that is an absurd arguement). Just like New York is rebuilding some tall buildings at the WTC. Never let fear control progress. Long live the Biggest 'Bus in the sky.
 
Udo
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RE: Airbus A380 "Target For Terror"

Thu Jan 13, 2005 1:58 am

He's just tired (as lots of people here) to hear all this paranoia which is spreaded and to hear all those 380 disaster theories.

Thanks, NumberTwelve. That's exactly what I meant.


Regards
Udo
Me & You & a Plane Named Blue...
 
daedaeg
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RE: Airbus A380 "Target For Terror"

Thu Jan 13, 2005 2:02 am

Here we go again. People are whining because someone asked a simple question. I read the question 3 times and in no way did he imply that he was against the A380.

I don't think the A380 developers or customers had terrorists in mind during production, nor should they. If we make products based on what "might" happen we're going down a slippery slope. Terrorist are opportunist and will attack the most readily available target.
Everyday you're alive is a good day.
 
Udo
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RE: Airbus A380 "Target For Terror"

Thu Jan 13, 2005 2:19 am

@Udo: gern geschehen, but: the Green party isn't as horrible as you discribe, even if you are a serious journalist. lol

Uhh, let's get over it.  Smile/happy/getting dizzy Btw, I could start a new topic on the Greens' latest plans to attack the aviation business...would that send us back onto the battle field?  Wink/being sarcastic


Back to topic here:
the original posting did not directly bash the A380 - but it's one more example for the never ending flow of totally irrelevant aspects which "could" threaten the A380. What comes next? Suggestions that Airbus could face lawsuits in the U.S. because - in the eyes of certain people - the A380's look could be seen as an insulting caricature of people with Down Syndrome?  Insane
Enough is enough.


Regards
Udo
Me & You & a Plane Named Blue...
 
iowa744fan
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RE: Airbus A380 "Target For Terror"

Thu Jan 13, 2005 2:40 am

I believe that NA and NoUFO hit the nail on the head for my argument. I would say that the A380 is not likely to be that much of a terror threat. Yes, it will be filled with a lot of people. However, terrorists don't just go after the biggest aircraft. Political motives are what often plays the key roles in their decisions. The United States is their main enemy, so it only makes sense that they would target the US. Spain supported the US in the fight (not sure of their current stance), and that was likely a reason for the train bombings. Look at the customers who are ordering the A380 (forgive me if I miss some or add some that have not ordered any):

Air France
Lufthansa
Virgin Atlantic
Emirates
Etihad
Qatar Airways
Korean Air
Singapore
Thai
Qantas
Fed Ex
UPS

France and Germany are not in direct support of the United States in the Iraq situation and the US war on terrorism, so attacking Air France or Lufthansa would only serve to increase the number of people against Al-Qaeda. I would assume that Emirates, Etihad, and Qatar are safe, although I am not too familiar with their level of US cooperation. I know that the US has a decent level of military persence in Qatar. As for Singapore, Thai, and Korean, none are on the list of countries that are strong targets for Al-Qaeda. The only three airlines that are in this category are UPS, Fed Ex (both cargo airlines), and Virign Atlantic.

Personally, I think that the size of the aircraft or really even the manufacturer has little to do with target selections. I would imagine that an American 737-800 or MD-80 would be just as good of a target as a United A-319 or A-320.
 
NoUFO
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RE: Airbus A380 "Target For Terror"

Thu Jan 13, 2005 3:30 am

I think the thread starter posted a valid question regardless of how easily we negate a seriously higher risk the A380 may be exposed to.

Before this thread fully derails into a more than ever unnecessary USA vs Europe mudfest, I would like to stress that after 9/11 most people said "Let's rebuild the towers: make them 3 or 5, make them higher, taller then ever - make it a symbol of our resistance and strenght."

And now a (slightly) bigger than ever aircraft is about to be introduced to the public and I wish we'd again only say, "look 'dear' terrorists- we are not frightened".

[Edited 2005-01-12 19:38:14]
I support the right to arm bears
 
aerosol
Posts: 497
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RE: Airbus A380 "Target For Terror"

Thu Jan 13, 2005 3:31 am

Glidescope you seriously need help or I do not understand your kind of humour.
 
flybyguy
Posts: 1415
Joined: Sun Jun 27, 2004 12:52 pm

RE: Airbus A380 "Target For Terror"

Thu Jan 13, 2005 3:54 am

I meant no offense to my European counterparts. I simply had a concern that some people I knew brought to my attention.

If one looked at my history of posts I have been an avid supporter and defender of the Airbus A380. It is a remarkable, miraculous aircraft. I am eagerly awaiting it's debut as is a vast majority of the Airliners.net community.

Once again I apologize if any offense was inflicted.

[Edited 2005-01-12 20:04:21]
"Are you a pretender... or a thoroughbred?!" - Professor Matt Miller
 
jaysit
Posts: 10186
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RE: Airbus A380 "Target For Terror"

Thu Jan 13, 2005 4:01 am

An A380 at a 70% payload carries just as many persons as a fully loaded 744 - about 400 each.

Atheism is Myth Understood.
 
NightFlier
Posts: 257
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RE: Airbus A380 "Target For Terror"

Thu Jan 13, 2005 5:40 am

My feeling is this and I am sure everyone will agree. All aircraft are targets for terror. The only aircraft that are not targets for terror are the ones that don't have terrorist on them.
Airplanes are only as good as the people who fly&fix them.