Venus6971
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A380 Cargo Spec's

Thu Jan 13, 2005 5:08 am

I know that UPS signed an order for the beast but what I want to know what are the configurations planned for it's cargo role. Will it fill the lobes along with both upper decks? Will it have a nose visor door like the 747 for oversized cargo?
I would help you but it is not in the contract
 
Sjoerd
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RE: A380 Cargo Spec's

Thu Jan 13, 2005 5:14 am

There will be two different cargo versions, that's all I know.

Sjoerd
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DAYflyer
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RE: A380 Cargo Spec's

Thu Jan 13, 2005 5:14 am

I would think it would only make sense to have a nose door on it like the Super Beluga. Thats the only way to really get the oversized stuff on it. But then again, with UPS handeling only packages, why would they need it, unless they plan on using it for that big bulky stuff????
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Venus6971
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RE: A380 Cargo Spec's

Thu Jan 13, 2005 5:22 am

This could be another thread but do you think their will be a market for the special 747-400F that Boeing are modifying to carry parts for the 7E7? Anybody have any pictures of it.
I would help you but it is not in the contract
 
Boeing Nut
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RE: A380 Cargo Spec's

Thu Jan 13, 2005 7:18 am

http://www.airbus.com/product/a380f_cabin_layouts.asp

The A380F will not be able to carry out sized cargo as the 747F and even the 777LRF will be able to do as the latter two aircraft have oversized doors. The 747F has another advantage with the nose door being able to carry long, oversized cargo. But for FedEx and UPS, this is not an advantage because of the type of cargo they carry. The A380 will put a good dent into the 747F sales, but it will by no means replace it.
I'm not a real aeronautical engineer, I just play one on Airliners.net.
 
patroni
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RE: A380 Cargo Spec's

Thu Jan 13, 2005 7:42 am

The 747F will not only be better for long, oversized cargo, but also for HIGH pallets: The A380, similar to the MD-11 can only load units up to 2.40m height whereas the 747 can take 2.40m through the nose door and 3m high units through the side door. The 777F will also be able to load 3m units.

I don't think that the 380F will be a good freighter except for integrators who have relatively small containers, high volumes vs. weights and a small inter-hub network, so that the extra infrastructure (double highloader etc) pays off.
 
pictues
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RE: A380 Cargo Spec's

Thu Jan 13, 2005 12:15 pm

Which Fedex and UPS are.
 
Fiedman
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RE: A380 Cargo Spec's

Thu Jan 20, 2005 6:55 am

Does anybody know when the Cargo version will be rolled out?
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Boeing Nut
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RE: A380 Cargo Spec's

Thu Jan 20, 2005 7:34 am

Well, if/when the stretch version is launched, you can bet there will be some cargo operators just drooling over the possibility of a stretch cargo version of an A380-900 as well.
I'm not a real aeronautical engineer, I just play one on Airliners.net.
 
gigneil
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RE: A380 Cargo Spec's

Thu Jan 20, 2005 8:06 am


The A380F will not be able to carry out sized cargo as the 747F and even the 777LRF will be able to do as the latter two aircraft have oversized doors.


?

The A380F has a large cargo door as an option. It'll be able to carry about the same sorts of cargo as the 772F.

Dunno where you got the 3M tall figure for the 772F, but that's an important detail in its favor.

N
 
clipperno1
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RE: A380 Cargo Spec's

Thu Jan 20, 2005 8:07 am

Sadly I only have minor knowledge about the "physics" of air cargo by now, but here's my point of view:

- No nose-door = no long pieces. This IMO might keep the 747 line alive for a few more years, as it leaves the 747, and to a lesser extend the An-124, alone in this league.

-We have two MDs with different dimensions. It will be interesting to see how many different ULD contours the A380 will require. I hope it comes down to 8 or 9...then try to sell the "least wanted, complicated" contours to the forwarder.  Insane

-maneuvering a rather "outsized" piece of cargo into the upper Main Deck through a SCD, looks like a hell lot of fun as well and should also require a new generation of high-loaders (read additional costs).

-Calculating W&B. The A380, as far as I understand, is coming off the production line after a few weight problems. They seemed to have worked around it by now, but whatever they did will surely not simplify the calculation, as you have to pay attention to a lot of specs/issues.

- After you have done W&B, it's time to simply load that plane without letting it "sit down" on the tarmac. 3 decks of cargo don't make this very easy. And again...add in the weight problems that come along with the A380...

FedEx and UPS use standardized containers and "just throw" in the packages, so they don't have to worry about all the aspects. But both do, from time to time (more often than you would think), ship larger consignments, so I guess airbus and the cargo industry will closely monitor how they are handling the A380.
"I really don't know one plane from the other. To me they are just marginal costs with wings."� Alfred Kahn, 1977
 
whitehatter
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RE: A380 Cargo Spec's

Thu Jan 20, 2005 8:15 am

- No nose-door = no long pieces. This IMO might keep the 747 line alive for a few more years, as it leaves the 747, and to a lesser extend the An-124, alone in this league.

That factor in air cargo is overstated to a degree. The Antonovs are kept busy, it's their speciality, but there isn't really much cargo lifted as a percentage which requires the swing nose specifically. Hence no swing-nose conversions yet of the passenger/combi 744.

Extra-large cargo is rarely time-critical and can go by boat. It's smaller palletised or containerised cargo where the volume is. That's why the MD11 is so popular as a box hauler and Lufthansa Cargo is withdrawing their 747F fleet in favour of the MD11. If it is a time-critical haul then the Antonovs are there...

I'm surprised Lockheed never turned out a few stripped down Galaxys in the manner which Boeing have tried to sell a civilian BC-17X
Lead me not into temptation, I can find my own way there...
 
PhilSquares
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RE: A380 Cargo Spec's

Thu Jan 20, 2005 8:20 am

In response to reply #9, the 380 will not be able to carry the same type cargo. There is a significant difference in the floor loading of the 744F/772F v. the 380. The former can hold 9.9lbs/sq in where as the 380 can only carry 7.8lbs/sq in.

The 380 is designed for a package type operation where you tend to get cubed out and just run out of room.
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patroni
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RE: A380 Cargo Spec's

Thu Jan 20, 2005 8:41 am

Dunno where you got the 3M tall figure for the 772F, but that's an important detail in its favor.

I got that from a Boeing publication, but just saw that it is also on the web:
http://www.boeing.com/commercial/777family/pf/pf_freighter_int.html

Extra-large cargo is rarely time-critical and can go by boat.
Outsize cargo is often time critical. Even though it might only be a small percentage of freight volumes, the yields are above average. 10-20ton shipments normally don't justify the use of an Antonov. It is cheaper to load them on a 747F, even when a commercial diversion is involved.

Lufthansa Cargo is withdrawing their 747F fleet in favour of the MD11.
They keep the 747F, but outsourced them to Air Atlanta. As I understand, 3 747F will operate exclusively for LH Cargo, just with Air Atlanta overhead and crew cost....

Hence no swing-nose conversions yet of the passenger/combi 744.
I think the addition of a nose door would be uneconomical for the 744SF with the structural changes involved. But if you look at the leasing market for 747-200 Freighters, the SF with no nose door are usually cheaper than the 200F...

Cheers,
Tom

 
A388
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RE: A380 Cargo Spec's

Thu Jan 20, 2005 9:41 am

I agree with Patroni. Working for Polar Air Cargo myself we get quite an amount of over-sized cargo shipments which are always time-sentisive, because in most cases they're critical parts for a manufacturer and/or are high tech, high value cargo, even though they represent a small amount of the total air cargo, those shipments are the shipments that make a lot of money.

A388
 
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RayChuang
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RE: A380 Cargo Spec's

Thu Jan 20, 2005 2:10 pm

I think because the A380-800F is designed primarily for palletized cargo, I wouldn't be surprised that the next airline to order the plane is DHL.
 
PhilSquares
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RE: A380 Cargo Spec's

Thu Jan 20, 2005 3:34 pm

I have to ask after reply #15, what kind of cargo do you think the 744F takes, bulk?????

It's all palletized!!!
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A388
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RE: A380 Cargo Spec's

Fri Jan 21, 2005 1:10 am

Philsquare,

The 744F does take bulk and is NOT only palletized cargo. Even though the amount of bulk cargo is very little, it does carry bulk cargo. Just like any other regular 747, the 744F also has the same space that can be used for bulk cargo, so why not use it? When we plan the flights at Polar Air Cargo, we always have bulk cargo as well, even though it's not much. So yes, the 744F has bulk cargo besides the palletized LD and MD.

A388
 
PhilSquares
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RE: A380 Cargo Spec's

Fri Jan 21, 2005 1:20 am

A388, did you ever hear of a rhetorical question? That's what my reply was.

As a Captain on the 744/744F, I do know that the "bulk cargo compartment" is used. But, let's put things in perspective. On a typical cargo flight, we might have 110 metric tons. Of that amount less than 2 tons, more likely less than 1 ton is "bulk" cargo.

The 747, as I pointed out is set up for pallet/container cargo. On the main deck you never see anything but palletized cargo, outsized cargo or animal containers. In the lower holds, yes, they can take LD containers, but I can't remember the last time I saw a container on a freighter.

I don't know how it is at Polar, but at SQ that's how things are. Most containerized cargo is put on pax flights.
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solnabo
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RE: A380 Cargo Spec's

Fri Jan 21, 2005 3:11 am


I wonder if Cargo Lux gonna get 388F or will they stick to 747F?

Time will tell, I guess.....

Micke/SE
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A388
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RE: A380 Cargo Spec's

Fri Jan 21, 2005 3:30 am

Hi Philsquares,

My apologies, I misunderstood you apparently. You are absolutely right, like I also pointed out, the amount of bulk cargo is very small. We also have palletized freight on the MD and LD (all build on ULD's of course), horse containers, and cargo with overhang.

A388

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