cjuniel
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IAD-NRT On UAL

Thu Jan 13, 2005 12:06 pm

The rumor mill at Dulles has United taking over ANA's daily IAD-NRT flight due to the fact that United is dropping a Hawaii-Japan frequency and ANA adding one. In addition, (and this is ALL hearsay right now), there are rumors that United will end their JFK-NRT flight. Has anyone else heard anything to this effect?
 
widebodyphotog
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RE: IAD-NRT On UAL

Thu Jan 13, 2005 12:50 pm

Whoever told you this is a fool and has no idea of what they are talking about. This statement is so far out of the realm of possibility and is simply preposterous

-widebodyphotog
If you know what's really going on then you'll know what to do
 
malaysia
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RE: IAD-NRT On UAL

Thu Jan 13, 2005 1:03 pm

GOD I HOPE NOT!

cause I can fly aNA free from IAD and I dont want to lose my window to NRT from IAD, cause nothing with UA
There Are Those Who Believe That There May Yet Be Other Airlines Who Even Now Fight To Survive Beyond The Heavens
 
eyesinthesky
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RE: IAD-NRT On UAL

Thu Jan 13, 2005 1:05 pm

Its not gonna happen!!
 
roseflyer
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RE: IAD-NRT On UAL

Thu Jan 13, 2005 1:09 pm

Lets provide some reasons for why UA wouldn't pick up the service over ANA rather than just flaming the poster with no better of an argument than he presented in the first place. I am actually curious why ANA flies the route, and there is no chance that UA would. An explanation would be nice if anyone knows or conjectures something.

[Edited 2005-01-13 05:14:23]
If you have never designed an airplane part before, let the real designers do the work!
 
United Airline
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RE: IAD-NRT On UAL

Thu Jan 13, 2005 1:37 pm

NRT-JFK is a CASH COW for UAL. Though UAL is not very strong at JFK, JFK is an important destination for UAL. I doubt they will end it in favour of IAD-NRT.
 
eyesinthesky
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RE: IAD-NRT On UAL

Thu Jan 13, 2005 1:42 pm

ANA is very proud of its service to DC, and I really do not think they are going to give that up. Why is UA unable to just add service to NRT from IAD without (taking over) the route from ANA?

(.)(.)
EyEs
 
United Airline
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RE: IAD-NRT On UAL

Thu Jan 13, 2005 1:44 pm

They can apply for such a flight
 
Boiler Special
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RE: IAD-NRT On UAL

Thu Jan 13, 2005 2:27 pm

IAD-NRT will not happen any time soon with UA metal. The 2nd HNL-NRT is going to LAX-NRT #2 starting in June.

As for JFK-NRT, there will be many many other flights dropped before JFK-NRT even gets mentioned. It is strategically important to be in the New York market out of Japan to support the rest of the network.
 
DCAYOW
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RE: IAD-NRT On UAL

Thu Jan 13, 2005 2:38 pm


The ANA IAD-NRT has performed well for NH over the years. The route has been around since the 1980s. In fact, right after 9/11 NH started doing IAD-ORD-NRT and quickly changed Dulles back to nonstop - dropping ORD from their schedule altogether. Rumor was the Japanese Govt (Ministry of Foreign Affairs) wanted the route restored - government traffic on it is sizable given the relationship.

Last full year load factors were in the high 70s. Fares comparable (if not a bit higher than out of JFK per OD1) and significantly higher versus EWR.

They have had trouble at times with the UA feeders at IAD - proper authorizations etc. I don't know if UA plans to replace NH on the route - nothing surprises me anymore - UA transfered the Latin America routes to IAD and now are performing temporary ops on behalf of SK to CPH - so I guess it could happen.
Retorne ao céu...
 
LAXintl
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RE: IAD-NRT On UAL

Thu Jan 13, 2005 3:02 pm

While UA's JFK-NRT route is not a looser, it certainly is no "Cash Cow" for United. In reality the JFK routes is one of the weaker Japan routes for the carrier, hence the need to operate smaller B777 on the route versus previously operated B744s. The JFK-NRT routes has suffered increasingly over the years from competition, especially with American entering the market with its own daily nonstop. United is simply weaker in the New York market compared to AA.

Overall UA could benefit by swapping the route over to IAD, as it could also channel connecting feed for the route, something it cannot do at JFK were it must rely solely on NY O&D traffic.

United has done extremely well with its swap of South America service from JFK to IAD with both load factors and revenue having increased substantially over the last 3 years.

From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
 
cjuniel
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RE: IAD-NRT On UAL

Thu Jan 13, 2005 9:31 pm

Laxintl,


I was thinking the same thing regarding the cash cow statement. We have been checking the loads out of JFK to NRT for a while now and these planes fly out half full at best. There are days in the summer when the planes actually go out full, but it isn't the RULE, as is the case out of Chicago and San Francisco. There are at least 4 daily flights between New York and Tokyo, and most of that is O&D traffic as nobody really has feeder traffic on that route. Further, United can benefit from feeder traffic on UAX at Dulles to fill the flight, because while there is feeder traffic on the flight, quite a bit of the traffic on the IAD-NRT route is O&D, with United feeding much of its traffic through Chicago and San Francisco (routes that ROUTINELY have SOLD OUT double daily flights to Tokyo). Many of you think its preposterous but many managers at Dulles think its not a matter of IF but a matter of WHEN. We will see what happens. Don't shoot me though, I am just the messenger and wanted to know if anyone else had heard the rumors.

 
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United_fan
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RE: IAD-NRT On UAL

Thu Jan 13, 2005 10:44 pm

Every time I went thru IAD it was a nice trat to see the ANA 744,later a 772. I also read that it may be upgraded to a 773ER.

Still amazes me that a twin can make IAD-Tokyo.
Champagne For My Real Friends,and Real Pain For My Sham Friends
 
N79969
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RE: IAD-NRT On UAL

Thu Jan 13, 2005 10:54 pm

It would not surprise me that much if UA dropped the JFK-NRT flight. It used to be a 747-400 and I believe it is now a 777 flight. If you take into consideration that the route is operated by Northwest, JAL, and ANA, there is quite a bit of capacity. I think I may be omitting American or Delta from the list as well but am not sure. Also Continental flies from Newark as all of you surely know. Since the competition is fierce as it is, UA may find a better use for that triple-7 elsewhere.

I have no idea about ANA's plans though. Even though they are United's alliance partner, that does not oblige them to sacrfice own-company profits to help an ally.
 
bobnwa
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RE: IAD-NRT On UAL

Thu Jan 13, 2005 11:05 pm

UnitedAirline,
NRT-JFK is a CASH COW for UAL

Can you give us any numbers to back that up? Also the term "cash cow" has been used to death.
 
aa777jr
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RE: IAD-NRT On UAL

Thu Jan 13, 2005 11:10 pm

While UA's JFK-NRT route is not a looser, it certainly is no "Cash Cow" for United

They compete with AA#167, it's not that money of a route for UA.

Regards,
AA777jr
A liberal is a man who is right most of the time, but he's right too soon.
 
bobnwa
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RE: IAD-NRT On UAL

Thu Jan 13, 2005 11:25 pm

AA is not the major player in the JFK-NRT market. They compete with ANA, JAL,UAL and NWA. DAL has dropped out. The market is not a "cash cow" for any of them!!

JFK-NRT also competes with EWR-NRT.

 
TokyoNarita
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RE: IAD-NRT On UAL

Thu Jan 13, 2005 11:29 pm

They compete with AA#167, it's not that money of a route for UA.

It's not so much because of AA167. It's because JAL is almost double daily and ANA is also there daily. All the big money goes there.

TokyoNarita

[Edited 2005-01-13 15:34:38]
 
AF022
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RE: IAD-NRT On UAL

Fri Jan 14, 2005 12:03 am

i would agree with BOILER SPECIAL that even if UA's JFKNRT is not regularly full, it is important to fill out the network from Japan, to offer a full option of destinations from NRT - HNL, JFK, ORD, LAX, SEA, SFO, plus destinations in Asia

this may also be why AA entered the market, to offer a wider range of options from JFK.

i'm surprised that notes above indicate that JL, NH and NW are strong competitors on the route. i thought NW had a lousy reputation. how is NW doing on the route?

af022
 
NWAFA
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RE: IAD-NRT On UAL

Fri Jan 14, 2005 12:22 am

Hi AF022,

NWA goes out full or almost full every day on JFK-NRT. In addition the cargo is packed on that bird.

JFK-NRT does VERY VERY well.
THANK YOU FOR FLYING NORTHWEST AIRLINES, WE TRULY APPRECIATE YOUR BUSINESS!
 
bobnwa
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RE: IAD-NRT On UAL

Fri Jan 14, 2005 12:24 am

AF002,
I thought NW had a lousy reputation. How is NW doing on the route

Care to elaborate on the first statement? NW has been flying the route longer than any of its competitors, so I guess it must be doing OK! The flight is booked at 76% for the next 5 days with business class booked at over 90%.

But I repeat, it is not a "cash cow" for any of them
 
widebodyphotog
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RE: IAD-NRT On UAL

Fri Jan 14, 2005 12:37 am

Many of you think its preposterous but many managers at Dulles think its not a matter of IF but a matter of WHEN. We will see what happens. Don't shoot me though, I am just the messenger and wanted to know if anyone else had heard the rumors.

I'm not going to shoot you, but I have to completely disagree with any assertion that ANA will simply give up NRT-IAD-NRT. In the near-long term NH plans to strengthen it's NA presence, and profitability, particularly in IAD, SFO and JFK. Within the next 15 months ANA will start 777-300ER service to JFK and/or IAD and possibly add frequency to SFO. The Bread and butter customers of ANA, first and business class passengers, simply will not accept United's lower level of service and would pick JAL out of JFK rather than take UA. Also cargo revenue is a very lucrative proposition for NH especially on the inbound flight from NRT where it is often 50% of the total revenues for the segment. NRT-IAD is the 1st or 2nd most profitable international route for NH. What possible incentive could UA provide them for giving it up? And as far as load factors go, NH load factor out of IAD ihas been much higher than 70% through the first 3q of fiscal 2004 and the JFK-NRT flight is doing a lot better than "half full".

I really hate to hear unfounded rumors like this with nothing to back them up. Who cares what other managers at IAD think about the situation of airlines they don't run. The ANA management does not have any plans to fold up the tent anytime soon.

-widebodyphotog
If you know what's really going on then you'll know what to do
 
AF022
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RE: IAD-NRT On UAL

Fri Jan 14, 2005 12:45 am

some statistics from DOT, based on Jan-Jun 2004:

JFK-JAPAN
AA 73.8% LF, 220.0 seats/day
JL 74.6% LF, 459.3 seats/day
NH 76.9% LF, 288.4 seats/day
NW 88.0% LF, 396.4 seats/day
UA 77.4% LF, 262.9 seats/day

IAD-JAPAN
NH 80.6% LF, 232.4 seats/day

EWR-JAPAN
CO 75.9% LF, 280.7 seats/day

ORD-JAPAN
AA 79.1% LF, 220.3 seats/day
JL 76.6% LF, 334.6 seats/day
UA 87.3% LF, 637.2 seats/day

SFO-JAPAN
JL 78.9% LF, 330.2 seats/day
NH 78.8% LF, 232.9 seats/day
NW 84.0% LF, 265.0 seats/day
UA 88.7% LF, 951.8 seats/day

af022
 
kkfla737
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RE: IAD-NRT On UAL

Fri Jan 14, 2005 12:50 am

ANA has flown IAD-NRT since the mid 1980s- in fact IRC IAD was their first US destination. The flight did well without any UA feed for years. (The flight was fed by a single codeshare US Air domestic flight from Orlando to Dulles). I doubt ANA would give up this flight.
 
cx750
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RE: IAD-NRT On UAL

Fri Jan 14, 2005 12:52 am

I don't think any of the US carriers do particularly well on JFK-NRT. A flight can be full (as in the case for NWA) but yield is key to the performance. It would be very difficult for either NWA or UA to make money on JFK-NRT year round, these routes are in place to keep JFK on the network.

AA/CO have enough feed and the strong O&D market to do well, but I believe the Japanese carriers probably make the most of the route.

As for NH increasing US service, I would see them adding capacity to non UA hub cities only - to take advantage of point of sale strength - UA has the advantage at its hubs (IAD is a legacy route, and it would be difficult to convince NH to give it up for UA).
 
roseflyer
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RE: IAD-NRT On UAL

Fri Jan 14, 2005 1:40 am

Cx750, I am trying to understand your logic here. New York is one of the highest yielding markets in the entire world. Demand for premium travel is much higher out of JFK. The O/D from New York would probably be higher yielding than traffic that is fed in on AA or CO. So I would presume that a flight filled with O/D from New York would be higher yielding than yield from connections through JFK or EWR.

Overall I think CO and AA are better positioned to benefit on the New York side since they have feed, but the connection possibilities that feed NW, UA, JL, and ANA would be better. UA and NW can connect JFK passengers to basically every large city in Eastern Asia through NRT. That will bring a lot of traffic in for them. If UA had to only rely on JFK-NRT traffic, then I think the route would long have been dropped. New York-NRT routes are very interesting since all the US carriers have feed on either the NYC end or the NRT end, but not both. But for NW and UA, they don't need feed to sustain the JFK flight since they connect many of their passengers through other hubs like SFO, ORD or DTW.
If you have never designed an airplane part before, let the real designers do the work!
 
flyua
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RE: IAD-NRT On UAL

Fri Jan 14, 2005 4:17 am

Admittedly, my information is... ohh, only five years old and from two UAL COOs ago, but there had been rumors of United dropping JFK-NRT back in 1999. I served Andy Studdert on a SFO-ORD run that summer, and I asked him about our JFK-NRT service. He laughed and rolled his eyes when I told him of the rumor, and he said, "We'd never drop JFK-Narita! I can't even imagine it."

Of course, at that point, I doubt he could have imagined he'd be leaving United the way he did!

Sadly, one lesson I've come to learn is to always expect the unexpected in this industry. The IAD-NRT United run has long been rumored, as has the JFK-NRT cancellation. All I do know is that there are more changes planned for our Asia service this summer, with announcements to come shortly.
 
cjuniel
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RE: IAD-NRT On UAL

Fri Jan 14, 2005 4:50 am

Widebodyphotog,

A rumor is something that can be true or untrue. I am not going to divulge what I have heard and seen to confirm that this rumor may in fact be true, but trust me it's not unfounded. You people always amaze me with the "lower levels of service" comments. While US carriers dont provide the "kiss ass" service of some of our counterparts around the globe, each US carrier still has a niche market where it is obviously doing something right considering the fact that they are still filling up their planes (United and Northwest to Asia, American to South America, Delta to Europe, Continental to Europe and Latin America). Time will tell what happens, but we will know before the end of this year.
 
cx750
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RE: IAD-NRT On UAL

Fri Jan 14, 2005 5:02 am

RoseFlyer,

You are correct about NY's large O/D base as well as the yields, however when you factor in KE, OZ, CI, CA, the yields drop significantly to Asia. In terms of connectivity, you are correct in that NW/UA have their mini hubs at NRT, the issue is that AA/CO have a strong point of sale advantage in NYC for their premium fliers. Since UA does not have a strong domestic presence in NYC, they tend to attract more of the lower fare pax in NYC. Just my thoughts..
 
rjpieces
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RE: IAD-NRT On UAL

Fri Jan 14, 2005 5:07 am

It would be very difficult for either NWA or UA to make money on JFK-NRT year round, these routes are in place to keep JFK on the network.

Ummmmm, have you ever looked at the cities that NW and UA serve out of NRT? AA might be able to fly a pax DCA-JFK-NRT but UA can take them JFK-NRT-HKG. In terms of premium seats and connection opportunies, UA and NW win over AA and CO, hands down.
"Millions long for immortality who do not know what to do with themselves on a rainy Sunday afternoon"
 
cx750
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RE: IAD-NRT On UAL

Fri Jan 14, 2005 5:23 am

Rjpieces,

Premium pax will stay with the alliance of choice, which for NY is oneworld and skyteam. Oneworld flyers can fly JFK-HKG can nonstop on CX or use AA and connect via NRT. There are now enough nonstop options to Asia (with better onboard products than UA/NW). Granted, CO does not have the same connectivity strength at NRT (except Micronesia flights and some KE) - they just have the ability to fill all the O/Ds from NYC. CO's strong domestic strength in NYC gives them a real advantage with the long-hauls.

Also, NW by nature caters to the lower yield market.
 
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ramprat74
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RE: IAD-NRT On UAL

Fri Jan 14, 2005 7:07 am

UA actually has more seats on the JFK-NRT route with a 777, then it did with the 747-400. UA used the expanded business class configuration on that route. I think they only has about 90 economy seats on those flts.
 
gigneil
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RE: IAD-NRT On UAL

Fri Jan 14, 2005 7:25 am

Huh?

The expanded business class 747 has 260 economy seats.

N
 
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STT757
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RE: IAD-NRT On UAL

Fri Jan 14, 2005 7:43 am

"In terms of premium seats and connection opportunies, UA and NW win over AA and CO, hands down."

CO's relationship with NWA helps them realize the same connection oppurtunities beyond Tokyo for the EWR-NRT flight, CO's code is also on NWA's JFK-NRT flight while NWA's code is on CO's EWR-NRT flight.

Also CO serves 8 Japanese cities (Fukuoka, Sendai, Sapporo, Nagoya, Tokyo, Okayama, Niigata, Hiroshima), while most of these routes cater to Japanese leisure travelers it does provide product (CO) recognition amongst travelers and agents in Japan. CO has been serving Japan longer than any other US carrier except NWA.
Eastern Air lines flt # 701, EWR-MCO Boeing 757
 
widebodyphotog
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RE: IAD-NRT On UAL

Fri Jan 14, 2005 8:12 am

I don't need time to tell what will happen in regards to this rumor. NH is not going anywhere as far as IAD is concerned. And as far as the relative service levels are concerned there is no comparison between the two airlines Business and First Class in flight service. ANA service level is higher, with larger seats, and better meals. NH caters to its core customer which is the Asian, in particular the Japanese business traveler who makes multiple trips on a yearly basis. Those customers fly ANA because of the service and when given a choice they will fly ANA over a US carrier without hesitation. They are loyal ANA flyers to the extreme and their choice does not turn on a few dollars difference in ticket price. They want to fly ANA and if they can't fly ANA they will go out of their way to fly JAL before they buy a ticket on for a UA flight to NRT. I know some of the service planning management at UA and I assure you they understand the dynamics of the route and the reasons for the relative permenance of ANA's NRT-IAD service.

The idea that UA will take over everything at IAD as far as Star Alliance is concerned has persisted for years and has come to nothing. The foreign carriers who serve the lucrative markets will not be bullied by UA which is pretty much impotent in many respects. If United wants to compete they should compete, but NH is not going to pack up shop because UA starts blustering yet again. Why should they? Last time I checked UA was in bankruptcy and losing millions per month and NH posted a $300mil profit for the first 3q 0f 2004. UA has no leverage to manipulate the service levels of ANA.

-widebodyphotog
If you know what's really going on then you'll know what to do
 
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ramprat74
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RE: IAD-NRT On UAL

Fri Jan 14, 2005 8:48 am

Huh?

The expanded business class 747 has 260 economy seats.

N


I don't know what 747 you are talking about? We had a few 400's that had 124 business seats and about 90 economy seats. UA has since reconfigured these planes to the standard layout.
 
TokyoNarita
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RE: IAD-NRT On UAL

Fri Jan 14, 2005 9:16 am

We had a few 400's that had 124 business seats and about 90 economy seats.

I do remember UA used to have expanded premium seating configuration a few years ago but 124 business and 90 economy sounds WAY too extreme to me. I have no source to back this up hopefully someone will. I have never heard of MORE business class seats than economy. Sounds very strange..the numbers of seats on each F/C/Y compartments do not add up for an aircraft the size of B744.

TokyoNarita


[Edited 2005-01-14 01:24:09]
 
LAXintl
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RE: IAD-NRT On UAL

Fri Jan 14, 2005 10:26 am

UAL indeed had a premium B747 configuration.

It was configured as F36C123Y142. As of 1999, there were 6 -400s in such a configuration.
In addition UA had a pair of B747-200s which were configured F35C109Y124.

These premium configurations were dedicated to the NY-Tokyo market (UAL also operated EWR-NRT for a while), along with ORD-NRT. The aircraft did also make randon appearances on other routes, especially frequent on the SFO-HKG service.

Nothing too crazy about these configurations. At the time the market was in need of so many premium seats. One might also remember many airlines also configured other aircraft like the B747SP with similar premium heavy configurations. Pan Am, American and United all had configurations with very small economy sections on the SP.
From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
 
UA772IAD
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RE: IAD-NRT On UAL

Fri Jan 14, 2005 11:42 am

UA is not dropping frequency between Japan and HI, that is a huge market for them... as Hawaii is the one of the top travel getaways for the Japanese, as it seems nearly everyone has been to Hawaii, to play golf or something. Also NH is holding down the market. IAD has signs for Korean Air, but I've never seen one of their jets here.
Although, I do think UA owould do great in the IAD-NRT market. That 14 hour flight is nearly sold out every day. Not to mention that it is the only carrier that flys directly to IAD. This is important since DC randomly has a big (and growing) Asian population (Korean, Vietnamese, and Japanese are among the biggest)... and they all take that flight when going back to Asia to visit relatives.
 
gigneil
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RE: IAD-NRT On UAL

Fri Jan 14, 2005 11:51 am

IAD has signs for Korean Air, but I've never seen one of their jets here.

I see it pretty much every day. Its a 744.

N
 
malaysia
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RE: IAD-NRT On UAL

Fri Jan 14, 2005 11:54 am

Korean brought in a 747-300 also today, that was rare
There Are Those Who Believe That There May Yet Be Other Airlines Who Even Now Fight To Survive Beyond The Heavens
 
N1120A
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RE: IAD-NRT On UAL

Fri Jan 14, 2005 12:09 pm

>UA used the expanded business class configuration on that route<

Wasn't that used for ORD-HKG? In anycase it does not matter, as they don't do that anymore
Mangeons les French fries, mais surtout pratiquons avec fierte le French kiss
 
Carpethead
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RE: IAD-NRT On UAL

Fri Jan 14, 2005 12:10 pm

I doubt UA will take-over NHfs NRT-IAD service but an additional frequency cannot be ruled out. There is a rumor that NH will re-start NRT-ORD service when enough 773ERs are in service to replace the 772ER on the IAD or SFO routes.

Herefs another slant on why NH will never abandon the NRT-IAD route. While a typical US businessperson or government official can conjure up a Gulfstream V or Bombardier Global Express for their trip on the same route, a Japanese person cannot readily to that. Unless the Japanese citizen is named Mr. Koizumi, he/she will not have their personal plane provided by private or government because there are any in Japan. Therefore, I am sure the Japanese government has a contract with NH on the NRT-IAD flights.

The JL & NHfs 744 on the NRT-JFK route has economy only in the last section. There are business class seat behind the wing! Thus JLfs aircraft is configured for 301 pax & NH, something like 287. UA used to have a similarly configured 744 on the NRT-JFK route until early this decade. The number of premium class seats outnumbers those in econ in this configuration. However, NW, UA, CO, & AA donft have a special configuration for the route, opting for their fleet standard seating.
By the way, aircraft filled with suits provide the biggest amount of money to the coffers of airlines not Bob and his family going on a vacation.

Also, UA even flew EWR-NRT until the late-90s with 742s.

If the NRT-JFK isnft making money for all the airlines, neither is any other transpac route, which is an impossibility.
 
gigneil
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RE: IAD-NRT On UAL

Fri Jan 14, 2005 12:48 pm

Korean brought in a 747-300 also today, that was rare

Was it a cargo plane? They only have the one pax model.

N
 
ny-jfk-lga
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RE: IAD-NRT On UAL

Fri Jan 14, 2005 1:02 pm

Actually, AA would be the only loser on JFK>NRT route. Besides all the NRT connection that UA & NW have @ NRT, those two carriers also have big alliances. At JFK, NW can have CO & DL feeds to NRT, remember, they're in SkyTeam. Don't know much about UA, besides thier express feeds. By the way, I love my Big Red (NW).
Bring back McDonnell Douglas & T W A!!
 
StevenUhl777
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RE: IAD-NRT On UAL

Fri Jan 14, 2005 1:22 pm

Hmmm....interesting arguments both ways. UA has been getting their asses kicked in the NY area for a while now, and have wisely reduced their flights accordingly. If, and I emphasize IF, they move the JFK-NRT flight to IAD, I wonder if the JFK-LHR slot would be moved, if possible under Bermuda II, to PHL or an extra segment out of IAD.

AF022:

Thanks for those numbers! I'd be curious to see the numbers for SEA-NRT, as NW and UA compete on that one, A330 for NW and a 772 for UA.

I was also suprised that CO only has a 76% LF out of EWR? Who else do they compete with there? And AA has only one flight from JFK to NRT? Is their BOS-NRT nonstop still being regurgitated every now and again? Not surprisingly UA dominates the ORD and SFO to Japan market.
And the winner for best actress is....REESE WITHERSPOON for 'Walk the Line'!!!!!!!!
 
gigneil
Posts: 14133
Joined: Fri Nov 08, 2002 10:25 am

RE: IAD-NRT On UAL

Fri Jan 14, 2005 1:26 pm

The EWR route competes with JFK, so there's lot of competition for the route.

N
 
nomorerjs
Posts: 581
Joined: Wed Sep 01, 2004 10:24 am

RE: IAD-NRT On UAL

Fri Jan 14, 2005 1:27 pm

I've heard the rumor about NH starting ORD when the 773s arrive as a 772 will be flown ORD-NRT. As AF022 points out, load factors on ORD-NRT are strong. With new UA flights to Asia and NH possibly staring ORD, AA and One World are at a disadvantage. One World has daily JL ORD-NRT, daily AA ORD-NRT and soon to have daily ORD-NGO (still can't figure this one out). Star has 10x weekly ORD-HKG, daily ORD-PVG, daily ORD-BJS, daily ORD-KIX, 2X daily ORD-NRT, and UA is looking at more and NH and TG are interested in serving ORD. I love competition, but would prefer CX on ORD-HKG or AA. No offense AA, but CX is a better airline and will give UA more competition. Any idea when there will be another ORD-ICN flight? I've heard UA and Asiana are looking at this route.
 
widebodyphotog
Posts: 885
Joined: Wed Jun 30, 1999 9:23 am

RE: IAD-NRT On UAL

Fri Jan 14, 2005 10:19 pm

Korean brought in a 747-300 also today, that was rare

It was a diversion from JFK, a freighter.

-widebodyphotog
If you know what's really going on then you'll know what to do
 
AF022
Posts: 1633
Joined: Fri Dec 26, 2003 10:41 pm

RE: IAD-NRT On UAL

Sat Jan 15, 2005 12:15 am

exhaustive summary, jan-jun2004, source DOT

ALL GATES TO JAPAN
NW 89.4%
UA 86.6%
DL 85.1%
NQ 83.8%
CI 80.6%
CO 79.9%
KE 79.8%
AA 79.8%
JL 79.1%
NH 78.9%
CS 75.9%
TG 70.4%
RG 70.4%
SQ 69.8%
JO 67.3%

SEATTLE
AA 97.3%
NW 91.4%
UA 87.5%

any other requests?

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