jc2354
Posts: 601
Joined: Sat May 01, 2004 9:56 am

Pilot Arrested for operating under the influence

Fri Jan 14, 2005 9:39 am

This is just being reported on the Las Vegas news. Thought I would pass it on.

http://www.kvbc.com/Global/story.asp?S=2805841&nav=15MUUi4B

An Air Tran pilot is under arrest in Las Vegas. Metro says, a TSA employee smelled alcohol on the pilot's breath when the pilot was passing through security. Police boarded the plane and made an arrest. McCarran airport officials say, they're proud of the security guard who contacted authorities.

Although no information on flight is available at this time, FL 1780 LAS-ATL, 12Jan, 11:45p-6:33am, is showing cancelled. There was a ferry flight, FL 8300, LAS-ATL, 13Jan, 12:47pm-7:07pm

If not now, then when?
 
Okie
Posts: 3551
Joined: Wed Jul 16, 2003 11:30 am

Pilot Arrested for operating under the influence

Fri Jan 14, 2005 9:54 am

On the lighter side

That is why they put the wavy line on the taxiway


View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Peter Tsagaris



Okie
 
L104me
Posts: 102
Joined: Tue Apr 27, 2004 2:36 am

Pilot Arrested for operating under the influence

Fri Jan 14, 2005 10:00 am


Here's More

Police officers boarded an Atlanta-bound AirTran flight in Las Vegas early Thursday morning where they arrested a 38-year-old pilot after a screener smelled alcohol on his breath.

Pilot Oliver Reason Jr., is suspected of having a blood alcohol level above the legal flight limit. He has been charged with the operation of an aircraft while under the influence.

"At no point was the flight under the captain's command," said Tad Hutcheson of AirTran Airways.

The Orlando-based airline subsequently cancelled Flight 1780 destined from McCarran International to Hartsfield-Jackson and removed all of the 60 passengers from the plane. Other flight accommodations were made.

The ordeal started just after midnight when a Transportation Security Administration screener reported smelling alcohol when the pilot passed by. Police were then notified and went to the gate, only to find out Reason had already boarded the plane. He was arrested in the cockpit.

AirTran officials said Reason was a member for the Federal Flight Deck Officer Program, run by the TSA, which allowed him to carry a weapon.

A spokesperson for the Orlando-based airline said the airline immediately contacted the Federal Aviation Administration about the incident. The FAA has made a medical certification suspension and started an emergency review.

 
NIKV69
Posts: 10889
Joined: Wed Jan 28, 2004 4:27 am

Pilot Arrested for operating under the influence

Fri Jan 14, 2005 10:02 am

I am just watching the story on the NBC's affilate channel 3 here in IFP. WOW! Arrested and taken off the plane in cuffs in front of everyone. What the hell is going on Air Tran? Unreal.
Hey that guy with the private jet can bail us out! Why? HE CAN AFFORD IT!
 
bennett123
Posts: 7440
Joined: Sun Aug 15, 2004 12:49 am

Pilot Arrested for operating under the influence

Fri Jan 14, 2005 10:48 am


This is not limited to Air Tran.

There was a BA pilot caught yesterday.

Some people do not seem to understand the rules.
 
CRPilot
Posts: 298
Joined: Tue Nov 09, 2004 8:37 am

Pilot Arrested for operating under the influence

Fri Jan 14, 2005 10:58 am

Maaan, this is very bad PR for companies. The jokes are still going around about the guys from AmericaWest.
Flying is a privilege!
 
NIKV69
Posts: 10889
Joined: Wed Jan 28, 2004 4:27 am

Pilot Arrested for operating under the influence

Fri Jan 14, 2005 11:15 am

Being someone who is learning to fly in a small Piper and also someone who would kill to fly a big commercial jet I have to say that pilots should never be anywhere near alcohol before a flight. Pilots have to be held the highest standard. This person is an idiot and should be fired, I saw the story rerun just now and they say Air Tran has suspended him. If proof exists he climbed into the cockpit to fly under the influence he should be never allowed to fly commercially.
Hey that guy with the private jet can bail us out! Why? HE CAN AFFORD IT!
 
ConcordeBoy
Posts: 16852
Joined: Thu Feb 01, 2001 8:04 am

Pilot Arrested for operating under the influence

Fri Jan 14, 2005 11:57 am

He should also be prosecuted to the full extent of the law
Faire du ciel le plus bel endroit de la terre c'est impossible sans Concorde!
 
CRPilot
Posts: 298
Joined: Tue Nov 09, 2004 8:37 am

Pilot Arrested for operating under the influence

Fri Jan 14, 2005 12:05 pm

Ya'll know that the 747 captain from NW got his wings back and his job back. Granted he pay his dues and I understand that he heads the anti alcohol/drug abuse program. He also had to write a huge petition to the judge for a pardon. But this is not the first I hear of someone getting back in after a full conviction.
Flying is a privilege!
 
ltbewr
Posts: 12389
Joined: Thu Jan 29, 2004 1:24 pm

Pilot Arrested for operating under the influence

Fri Jan 14, 2005 12:32 pm

There is no doubt that alcohol and flying doesn't mix. Yet, many commercial pilots over the years have had (and few still have) problems with and addiction to alcohol and have clinical alcoholism. Just about everyplace in the world are becoming far less tolarant of the abuse of alcohol at their workplace and elsewhere in their lives and and have developed far less tolarance to it's misuse. You have to seriously question a person who would dismiss their responsibilty, the enjoyment of being able to fly, the decent pay and the costly time and money investment they made to become a pilot by comming to work intoxicated. Maybe what they have to do is put some of these clowns like this pilot upon conviction to spend some time in a real jail for their criminal and irresponsibility beheavor.
 
mtnmanmakalu
Posts: 493
Joined: Sat Nov 06, 2004 1:47 pm

Pilot Arrested for operating under the influence

Fri Jan 14, 2005 12:51 pm

The best thing to all this is that the turd was even carrying a gun!!! I guess he thought he was "Home on the Range"..... sad, cowboy....

Say goodbye to your career- I hope it was worth those last $1 Busch Lights...

 Big grin
I do, I don't, whatever.......
 
PhilSquares
Posts: 3371
Joined: Sun Mar 28, 2004 6:06 pm

Pilot Arrested for operating under the influence

Fri Jan 14, 2005 2:06 pm

It's amazing how mad people can get. If you assume that pilots are representative of the general population, then you have to accept the fact anywhere from 3%-5% of the pilots have a substance (alcohol) problem. That's what it is in the general population. If you look at specific careers it tends to be even higher.

Secondly, as post 9 alluded to, alcoholism is considered a disease. Like it or not, that's a medicat fact. ALPA and most airlines have worked together to make sure situations like this don't happen. Sending someone to jail isn't going to make any difference, depriving them of their career isn't going to make any difference either.

The problem is situations like this tend to get very emotional. And any sort of rational approach tends to get pushed to the side.

Fly fast, live slow
 
copter808
Posts: 1383
Joined: Sat Dec 30, 2000 1:14 pm

Pilot Arrested for operating under the influence

Fri Jan 14, 2005 2:09 pm

The best thing to all this is that the turd was even carrying a gun!!! I guess he thought he was "Home on the Range"..... sad, cowboy....

I missed something here Mtnmanmakalu, where does it say he was armed? The postings here say he was a member of the Federal Flight Deck Officer Program, which permits him to carry a weapon. I see nothing to indicate that he was actually carrying one.

Did I miss something?

Pilot Oliver Reason Jr., is suspected of having a blood alcohol level above the legal flight limit. He has been charged with the operation of an aircraft while under the influence.

"At no point was the flight under the captain's command," said Tad Hutcheson of AirTran Airways.


Can he be charged with "operation of an aircraft..." when "at no point was the flight under the captain's command."? UNless perhaps, it was under the command of the first officer and the "pilot" was acting as a crewmember.

More likely, the flight was under the captain's command, even though it was still parked at the gate.

After reading the CNN story, it is even more confusing:

The pilot has been suspended from his duties as a federal flight deck officer, which had allowed him to carry the firearm, the TSA said.

It does not say that he actually had one in his possession!





[Edited 2005-01-14 06:16:17]
 
2H4
Posts: 7960
Joined: Tue Oct 19, 2004 11:11 pm

Pilot Arrested for operating under the influence

Fri Jan 14, 2005 2:21 pm

Reminds me of an old joke....

Q: How many <<< insert name of airline currently in the news >>> pilots does it take to fly an airplane?



















A: Two and a fifth.



 Smile


2H4
Intentionally Left Blank
 
N867BX
Posts: 295
Joined: Thu Nov 25, 2004 10:19 am

Pilot Arrested for operating under the influence

Fri Jan 14, 2005 2:37 pm

Weren't ALL THREE pilots on NW 727 intoxicated? And they actually flew the plane. I guess there isn't much to do in Fargo.

Yes, alcoholism is a "disease" but I think someone with this sort of "disease" should find a new line of work. There are plenty of diseases which would disqualify one from being an airline pilot, why should this "disease" be any different. Hell, you can't even deliver a pizza for Domino's if you have a DWI, even if you received it off duty. Why should we hold an AIRLINE PILOT to a lower standard than a pizza delivery guy.
 
PhilSquares
Posts: 3371
Joined: Sun Mar 28, 2004 6:06 pm

Pilot Arrested for operating under the influence

Fri Jan 14, 2005 2:46 pm

N867bx,

Who said anything about a different standard? If you had a heart condition or some other medical problem would you seek treatment? I would venture to say yes. ALPA has worked for years to implement the program that is in place at most airlines.

I noticed your profile, I would imagine you would advocate the same standards for your profession then? I have worked for major airlines and have been in the hangers at all hours. There are problems there too, just like in the population as a whole.

Be careful of what you wish for, you just might get it some day!
Fly fast, live slow
 
hawk44
Posts: 733
Joined: Mon Jan 10, 2005 3:54 pm

Pilot Arrested for operating under the influence

Fri Jan 14, 2005 3:07 pm

Horrible, what makes it worse as someone said is he was armed.

Hawk44
Never under estimate the power of US
 
777STL
Posts: 2770
Joined: Mon Dec 13, 2004 8:22 am

Pilot Arrested for operating under the influence

Fri Jan 14, 2005 3:11 pm

So the guy is an alcoholic because he had alcohol on his breath? Some of you people jump to conclusions too quickly.

I can drink a SINGLE beer and have the smell of alcohol on my breath, that doesn't make me an alcoholic, or drunk for that matter. Since the average age around here is 13, I'll assume most people didn't know that.

"The problem is situations like this tend to get very emotional. And any sort of rational approach tends to get pushed to the side."

My thoughts exactly.

-77
PHX based
 
NIKV69
Posts: 10889
Joined: Wed Jan 28, 2004 4:27 am

Pilot Arrested for operating under the influence

Fri Jan 14, 2005 3:33 pm

Philsquares,

There is no excuse for a pilot and alcohol. Diesase or not, these people are responsible for hundreds of lives. It's that simple. You have a problem, hand in your wings till you can get a handle on it. Emotional? You bet it is, having a huge number of people die for alcohol can not happen.
Hey that guy with the private jet can bail us out! Why? HE CAN AFFORD IT!
 
N867BX
Posts: 295
Joined: Thu Nov 25, 2004 10:19 am

Pilot Arrested for operating under the influence

Fri Jan 14, 2005 3:39 pm

Philsquares

I don't work in the industry anymore but I have ZERO tolerance for this sort of nonsense. ZERO tolerance when I was fixin planes and ABSOLUTELY ZERO tolerance now that I own a pizza store. There is simply too much at stake for everyone. I'm not saying we should shoot the guy, I'm saying he should get a new career. A career that does not put him in control of any type of vehicle. Screw his career, safety should come first. If this guy crashes (even sober and not his fault) the punitive damages awarded by letting this known "unfit pilot" fly a transport aircraft could bankrupt a company like Airtran.
 
BA
Posts: 10133
Joined: Fri May 19, 2000 11:06 am

Pilot Arrested for operating under the influence

Fri Jan 14, 2005 4:33 pm

I just can't believe the stupidity some people have.

He should be fired and never be allowed to be a pilot for an airline ever again...
"Generosity is giving more than you can, and pride is taking less than you need." - Khalil Gibran
 
Skydrol
Posts: 1053
Joined: Fri Oct 03, 2003 12:01 pm

Pilot Arrested for operating under the influence

Fri Jan 14, 2005 4:51 pm

Haven't seen it in years, but this news story reminds me of the movie "The Pilot" with Cliff Robertson.


Maybe a new argument for pilots not to carry firearms?



LD4
∙ ---{--« ∙ ----{--« ∙ --{-« ∙ ---{--« ∙ --{--« ∙ --{-« ∙ ----{--« ∙
 
57AZ
Posts: 2371
Joined: Tue Nov 02, 2004 2:55 pm

Pilot Arrested for operating under the influence

Fri Jan 14, 2005 5:05 pm

Furthermore, I find the fact that the federal regulations allow for a pilot to have any measurable amount of alcohol in their blood when reporting for duty. Sounds like the FAA could take a hint from the Federal Railroad Administration and the Association of American Railroads (AAR). Railroad prohibition of working under the influence of alcohol or drugs predates federal requirements by decades. The predecessor to the AAR, the American Railway Association held annual conferences of railroad managers who drew up and made periodic changes to the ARA standard book of Operating Rules, which all member railroads adopted (essentially all of the railroads in operation). One of the principal work rules was Rule G. It simply stated that the use of intoxicants while on company property is prohibited and that employes reporting for duty while under the influence of intoxicants will be immediately dismissed. Many railroads also had company rules that forbade employees from entering establishments that served alcohol when in company uniform-concern for their public image. In fact, federal law forced the railroads to relax their rules. Now railroaders who have alcoholic problems and are caught on a Rule G violation cannot be immediately terminated if they are reported by a co-worker using the company's confidential reporting system and enter voluntarily into rehab. If they refuse, they can be terminated then. Airlines could gain a lot by examining how the railroads manage their employees.
"When a man runs on railroads over half of his lifetime he is fit for nothing else-and at times he don't know that."
 
ushermittwoch
Posts: 2530
Joined: Fri Jan 09, 2004 10:18 pm

Pilot Arrested for operating under the influence

Fri Jan 14, 2005 5:51 pm

According to some people's logic here, if a pilot is an alcoholic the airline and passengers should suck it up, because the poor (wo)man has a disease.
Well, this is where I beg to differ, just like the case of the BLIND med student at the UW-Madison that I happen to know.
There is a limit as to what can be tolerated because the harm to innocent people is larger than the individual harm to the person whom might be "discriminated" against.
(Damn this argument sure sounds like a pro-Guantanamo stance..., although I would doubt that anybody there means too much harm)

Anyway, that guy should know better.
And dear 777STL, you need to drink more than one beer to FAIL a breathalizer test.

The guy should get hired and some laid-off pilot, whom lost his job due to no fault of his own should get hired.

But at least he could have defended himself in the ever so likely case that some Arab was on the plane, just waiting to kill innocent, Chirsitan, white, middle-class Americans...
Where have all the tri-jets gone...
 
aa777jr
Posts: 2269
Joined: Tue Feb 17, 2004 12:03 pm

Pilot Arrested for operating under the influence

Fri Jan 14, 2005 6:28 pm

Looks like the pilot in question was a F.F.D.O and was carrying his H&K .40 cal. when police arrested him in the cockpit. Will this in any question give question to allowing pilots to carry firearms on domestic hauls?
A liberal is a man who is right most of the time, but he's right too soon.
 
tsully
Posts: 680
Joined: Tue Mar 20, 2001 5:02 pm

Pilot Arrested for operating under the influence

Fri Jan 14, 2005 6:55 pm

On a positive note, I remember my dad (UA pilot) telling me about some commercial pilot (airline not known) whose flight had been delayed due to weather. The pilot ended up finding a pub and knocking back a few... When it was time for him to fly his flight, he voluntarily declined to operate the plane, admitting to his airline that he had been drinking. Now rather than merely firing the guy, the airline did the SMART thing and made a positive example out of him. They advertised his story throughout the entire airline, so as to encourage pilots in the same situation to follow his example.

What a good idea...to realize that pilots are human and make mistakes, but to allow them to recover. Now of course this guy probably had to undergo some form of alcohol treatment program, but at least he was rewarded for making the right decision when he chose not to fly. Perhaps some pilots who have made the mistake of drinking before a flight feel pressured to perform their job, afraid of facing the consequences of admitting that they had been drinking.

Of course I don't condone or stand up for anyone who drinks and then gets into the cockpit...this guy at Airtran ought to be fired and banned from ever touching the yoke of any plane...commercial or private. But I do think that the focus ought to be on prevention. Let the pilots know that they can voluntarily refuse to fly without consequences. That way, you'll hopefully avoid the drunk-driver situation entirely.

We have a law in California that allows anybody to drop off an unwanted baby at any hospital, fire department or police station...with no questions asked. This law promotes the safety and well being of unwanted infants and children. So instead of discovering dead babies in rivers and trash dumpsters, we encourage the unwanting parents to just hand over their kids without any pressure... It's just my opinion, but I think the same idea should be implemented in the cockpit. By encouraging pilots to step forward who have been drinking, you stop the problem before it becomes a disaster.
Not everyone is strong when it comes to things like alcohol. Fortunately for us (the traveling public), most pilots are like my dad, in that he won't look at a drink within the prohibition window. But we all have our weaknesses, and the FAA and individual airlines ought to do their part towards addressing pilot intoxication before it gets to all-points-critical. I think alcoholism must truly be a disease, because I can't imagine a pilot just throwing away his career and his life for a stupid Budweiser...even if he is depressed by all the doom and gloom in the industry!

Just to make sure I'm being clear, I leave absolutely NO room for any pilot who drinks and gets into the cockpit. There is NO forgiveness for any idiot who risks the lives of others by drinking and flying... But I do think we should be forgiving and thankful for ANY pilot who realizes his error and REFUSES to fly the plane because he knows it is unsafe and illegal. That is the type of guy/gal whom we should all admire and make a positive example out of!
I love America. I guess that makes me Bush's poodle, but I'd rather be a dog in New York City than a prince in Riyadh.
 
tsully
Posts: 680
Joined: Tue Mar 20, 2001 5:02 pm

Pilot Arrested for operating under the influence

Fri Jan 14, 2005 7:24 pm

Looks like the pilot in question was a F.F.D.O and was carrying his H&K .40 cal. when police arrested him in the cockpit. Will this in any question give question to allowing pilots to carry firearms on domestic hauls?

Absolutely not...the key here is to remove these weak links [ie intoxicated pilots] from the chain, not take the guns away from all the GOOD pilots. And there are plenty of GOOD pilots who rightfully carry guns.

I love America. I guess that makes me Bush's poodle, but I'd rather be a dog in New York City than a prince in Riyadh.
 
ushermittwoch
Posts: 2530
Joined: Fri Jan 09, 2004 10:18 pm

Pilot Arrested for operating under the influence

Fri Jan 14, 2005 7:39 pm

Yes because a gun is the solution to all problems...
Where have all the tri-jets gone...
 
tsully
Posts: 680
Joined: Tue Mar 20, 2001 5:02 pm

Pilot Arrested for operating under the influence

Fri Jan 14, 2005 8:06 pm

Yes because a gun is the solution to all problems...

Yes, you're spot on! A bullet between the eyes of a terrorist who invades the cockpit is the solution! I won't turn this into a pro-FFDO argument, because people on these boards simply do not understand the issue... which is precisely why the pilot/gun issue was never seen on a ballot. We leave those decisions to informed professionals.

If you don't feel safe flying on an airline whose pilot carries a gun, I understand there are many European airlines to suit you! I for one am more than happy to fly on planes with sky marshals to protect the cabin and pilots to protect the cockpit, should the flight deck become jeopardized. BTW, if the cockpit is broken into, your very last hope for survival lies not with the dead sky marshal back in the cabin...your only hope rests in the pilot shooting the SOB between the eyes as he enters the cockpit!

I love America. I guess that makes me Bush's poodle, but I'd rather be a dog in New York City than a prince in Riyadh.
 
tsully
Posts: 680
Joined: Tue Mar 20, 2001 5:02 pm

Pilot Arrested for operating under the influence

Fri Jan 14, 2005 8:19 pm

Yes because a gun is the solution to all problems...

When you can convince the bad guys to play nice (i.e. without guns) you'll convince me that good guys should give up their guns.

We can all see how *marvelously* the UK/NZ anti-gun policies have worked out for their bobbies. I'm speaking here of the poor unfortunate bobbies who are injured/killed each year after being SHOT by criminals who evidently never received the memo that guns are against the rules now. You see, criminals in general don't feel obligated to play by anyone's rules... Not to discredit the anti-arms idea in theory, but you absolutely MUST realize that the bad guys are always going to play DIRTY. That is, they don't care if you take guns away from cops...you can outlaw guns altogether, but the bad guy will always find a gun! That, my friend, is a water tight argument! Are guns a terrible thing, yes. Are guns necessary to fight the bad guys, YES!!! How can any logical person expect a cop to do his job using a baton while his opponent has a .22? C'mon man!
I love America. I guess that makes me Bush's poodle, but I'd rather be a dog in New York City than a prince in Riyadh.
 
User avatar
scbriml
Posts: 13356
Joined: Wed Jul 02, 2003 10:37 pm

Pilot Arrested for operating under the influence

Fri Jan 14, 2005 8:40 pm

I'm speaking here of the poor unfortunate bobbies who are injured/killed each year after being SHOT by criminals who evidently never received the memo that guns are against the rules now.

So no armed US police ever get killed then?

Meanwhile, back on topic...

Is it actually confirmed that he was over the limit?

Time flies like an arrow. Fruit flies like a banana!
 
NumberTwelve
Posts: 1393
Joined: Tue Dec 21, 2004 8:57 pm

Pilot Arrested for operating under the influence

Fri Jan 14, 2005 8:40 pm

@ Bush's poodle - do you get financial supports of weapon industry or why do you post that "weapon" statement?
signature censored by admin - so check my profile
 
ushermittwoch
Posts: 2530
Joined: Fri Jan 09, 2004 10:18 pm

Pilot Arrested for operating under the influence

Fri Jan 14, 2005 8:46 pm

Well apparently you guys have ZERO faith in your US American born and raised, proud as can be TSA agents and the reinforced cockpit doors.
But in your wild paranoid fantasies every terrorist has super human strength and can easily dismantle those doors.
Where have all the tri-jets gone...
 
NumberTwelve
Posts: 1393
Joined: Tue Dec 21, 2004 8:57 pm

Pilot Arrested for operating under the influence

Fri Jan 14, 2005 8:51 pm

Usher, it's your fault when people here will talk about "... if 9/11 would have happened in Europe, you would ..."  Wink/being sarcastic

And this is what I am not interested to hear, we had Bader-Meinhoff and didn't play cowboy in the streets.
signature censored by admin - so check my profile
 
tsully
Posts: 680
Joined: Tue Mar 20, 2001 5:02 pm

Pilot Arrested for operating under the influence

Fri Jan 14, 2005 9:48 pm

So no armed US police ever get killed then?


Of course our cops get shot and killed all the time. But we sure as hell won't take their defenses away from them! That would surely result in more police injuries/deaths. I'm a logical person who would freely acknowledge the validity of an anti-arms arrangement for cops -- if it made logical sense. But since the bad guy is not likely to give up his weapon, it seems to me that the good cop without a gun is at a major disadvantage.

If we are to continue this conversation, we'd better move it to Non-Av.
I love America. I guess that makes me Bush's poodle, but I'd rather be a dog in New York City than a prince in Riyadh.
 
tsully
Posts: 680
Joined: Tue Mar 20, 2001 5:02 pm

Pilot Arrested for operating under the influence

Fri Jan 14, 2005 10:11 pm

And this is what I am not interested to hear, we had Bader-Meinhoff and didn't play cowboy in the streets.


Look, I'm not going to pull the "If 9/11 had happened in Germany" line...because I'm sure I know how Schroeder would have reacted. That aside, don't tell my country how to defend ourselves. We're the people whom terrorists want to kill, not you. The Israelis seem to do an adequate job at protecting El Al...maybe we can all take notice.


And no, I don't get any financial kick backs from gun makers. It's merely my opinion. You just watch... when some terrorist breaks into an American cockpit only to get 3 ounces of lead pumped into his head, attitudes towards guns in the cockpit will change. Skeptics will then realize that guns are a necessary evil. Fortunately for us in America, our politicians have already recognized this, hence the establishment of the FFDO program.
By the way, I'm all for gun control as it pertains to keeping dangerous weapons away from children. But face it, the bad guy is going to get a gun one way or another. Criminals don't go into gun stores to get their weapons. Two words for you, my friend: BLACK MARKET. Therefore, all of the laws, regulations and gun control in the world won't keep guns away from criminals! And that's precisely why we can't take guns away from the police officers who are there for OUR protection.

I'll say no more about guns in this forum...(by the way, I did contribute my on-topic comments in reply #25). But enough about pilots and guns...get back to the topic at hand.


I love America. I guess that makes me Bush's poodle, but I'd rather be a dog in New York City than a prince in Riyadh.
 
pelican
Posts: 2429
Joined: Mon Apr 05, 2004 9:51 pm

Pilot Arrested for operating under the influence

Fri Jan 14, 2005 10:25 pm

Airlines should make it clear that if you're drunk and want to enter a flightdeck you will be fired but if you're drunk and admit your fault you will not have to fear any consequences.

If you don't feel safe flying on an airline whose pilot carries a gun, I understand there are many European airlines to suit you!
But not a German airline, because we damn euro liberals have also sky marshals...

pelican
 
ATLhomeCMH
Posts: 751
Joined: Fri Dec 19, 2003 3:25 am

Pilot Arrested for operating under the influence

Fri Jan 14, 2005 11:55 pm

Skeptics will then realize that guns are a necessary evil. Fortunately for us in America, our politicians have already recognized this, hence the establishment of the FFDO program

I am also in favor of pilots carrying weapons in the cockpit. At the very least, it is an ample deterrent against anyone even thinking about trying to breach the doors of a cockpit.

However, as a former U.S. Marine MP, I also understand the potential ramifications of drawing your weapon in close quarters while trying to fight off an advancing perpetrator. What everyone--pro-gun or not--must address is the outside possibility that IF an assailant did breach the cockpit doors and was not immediately dropped with a .40 round center-mast to the chest (or between the eyes, as was mentioned before), the pilot and hypothetical terrorist would then be engaged in a wrestling match for a firearm...not cool.

What I am driving at by digressing from FFDO Reason's alcohol mishap is just to re-emphasize to everyone on A.net the importance of ample and ongoing firearms, self-defense and CQB (close-quarters battle) training for any pilot who carries a handgun in the cockpit through the FFDO program. If this is to be allowed, we must prepare FFDOs for every possible scenario.

Now, as far as Mr. Reason is concerned, I think he should be fired, stripped of all FAA ratings for life, stripped of his ability to legally own or carry a civilian firearm, and have his keister parked in a jail cell for a few months at least.

Look, I'm not going to pull the "If 9/11 had happened in Germany" line...because I'm sure I know how Schroeder would have reacted. That aside, don't tell my country how to defend ourselves. We're the people whom terrorists want to kill, not you. The Israelis seem to do an adequate job at protecting El Al...maybe we can all take notice.

Tsully, don't worry about it. I have run into many Europeans who are insightful and open-minded. From my travels throughout Europe, I would say this is the norm.

But what we have witnessed are a couple supposed Germans who apparently forgot that the relative freedom they live under comfortably was provided to them long ago by the blood, limbs, and lives of a few boys from the United States of America.

Just because our President is a cowboy, that doesn't make all Americans gun-totin' hillbillies.
"The most terrifying words in the Engligh language are, 'I'm from the government and I'm here to help.'"-Ronald Reagan
 
PhilSquares
Posts: 3371
Joined: Sun Mar 28, 2004 6:06 pm

Pilot Arrested for operating under the influence

Sat Jan 15, 2005 12:19 am

Hmmm and the title of this thread is?????????

And look where we are now. This is amazing. We have all these arm chair experts.

I suggest everyone take a look at the FARs and see just what happens to his certificates. Perhaps we should send the pilot to the electric chair, that would certainly teach him a lesson!
Fly fast, live slow
 
jmc1975
Posts: 2893
Joined: Mon Sep 18, 2000 10:57 am

Pilot Arrested for operating under the influence

Sat Jan 15, 2005 12:27 am

The title of your topic makes no sense.....what does "und" mean????
.......
 
goomba
Posts: 244
Joined: Wed Mar 10, 2004 11:55 pm

Pilot Arrested for operating under the influence

Sat Jan 15, 2005 12:34 am

Why in God's name would you risk your entire career by knocking back a few pops before you are due to fly a commercial airliner.

If you are on schedule, or even on call....don't drink.

You can drink until the cows come home when you get home and have the next 4 to 5 days off.

Just doesn't make sense.
 
PhilSquares
Posts: 3371
Joined: Sun Mar 28, 2004 6:06 pm

Pilot Arrested for operating under the influence

Sat Jan 15, 2005 12:37 am

I hate to burst everyone's bubble. However, I would like to remind everyone this person has not been convicted of anything. And until that happens he is innocent.

I do seem to remember that being one of the basic tenants of the judicial system.
Fly fast, live slow
 
tsully
Posts: 680
Joined: Tue Mar 20, 2001 5:02 pm

Pilot Arrested for operating under the influence

Sat Jan 15, 2005 12:47 am

But what we have witnessed are a couple supposed Germans who apparently forgot that the relative freedom they live under comfortably was provided to them long ago by the blood, limbs, and lives of a few boys from the United States of America.

True indeed.
I love America. I guess that makes me Bush's poodle, but I'd rather be a dog in New York City than a prince in Riyadh.
 
777STL
Posts: 2770
Joined: Mon Dec 13, 2004 8:22 am

Pilot Arrested for operating under the influence

Sat Jan 15, 2005 1:43 am

"And dear 777STL, you need to drink more than one beer to FAIL a breathalizer test."

Dear Ushermittwoch, one drink will fail a Breathlyzer as it is detectable. Though I see nothing in this article that suggests that a Breathlyzer was even used. You can flunk a Breathlyzer after using mouthwash so I'm not impressed.

From the limited amount of information in that article and the gross assumptions of the "experts" in this thread we can conclude that this pilot is guilty, is an alcoholic and should never fly again. Despite the fact that from what I can tell, there's no evidence he was drunk in the first place. There is a difference between having a detectable BAC and being drunk.

I don't know, I'm just floored that people can draw so many conclusions from so little information when they know very, very little about the topic at hand. Stick to arguing about who's got the best IFE or when NW's DC9s are going to be retired.

-77

PHX based
 
MD88Captain
Posts: 1224
Joined: Wed Nov 14, 2001 9:50 am

Pilot Arrested for operating under the influence

Sat Jan 15, 2005 1:47 am

Yeah, it is a disease. I guess. But in my mind it is a disqualifying disease. He should never fly again. And he should/and I'm sure will be held to the strictest measure of the law. How stupid to endanger crew, passengers, aircraft, airline, family, FFDO program... all for a Las Vegas drunk-X. If it was a LVS mistake, then he should've called in sick. If it is a long-term problem, then it is good that he was caught before hurting something besides his career. There is no room for it in avaition.

BTW. From another source I read that he failed a breath-test from the Las Vegas police.
 
777STL
Posts: 2770
Joined: Mon Dec 13, 2004 8:22 am

Pilot Arrested for operating under the influence

Sat Jan 15, 2005 1:55 am

"BTW. From another source I read that he failed a breath-test from the Las Vegas police."

Alright. Let me be clear, I do think he should never see the cockpit of an aircraft again. Yank his certificates and kick his ass out the door. Though I'm going to qualify that by saying, as long as he is guilty. Even the fact that he had a detectable BAC should disqualify him from flying commercially ever again. I do believe in second chances, but not when you have 100+ lives at stake.

We don't know he's an alcoholic, not everyone who drinks alcohol is an alcoholic. What bugged me was everyone was making all these assumptions and assertions about the guy when they knew very little.

-77
PHX based
 
User avatar
scbriml
Posts: 13356
Joined: Wed Jul 02, 2003 10:37 pm

Pilot Arrested for operating under the influence

Sat Jan 15, 2005 1:57 am

But what we have witnessed are a couple supposed Germans who apparently forgot that the relative freedom they live under comfortably was provided to them long ago by the blood, limbs, and lives of a few boys from the United States of America.

Oh good grief, not the US Cavalry line again! Yes folks, a few boys from the USA single-handedly won WWII  Insane

All we need now is a "If it wasn't for us, you Euros would all be speaking German." and we'll have the full set.

So, because you contributed to defeating an evil regime a long time ago, nobody is now allowed to have an opinion that doesn't agree with yours?
Time flies like an arrow. Fruit flies like a banana!
 
haj96
Posts: 69
Joined: Mon Oct 20, 2003 6:00 pm

Pilot Arrested for operating under the influence

Sat Jan 15, 2005 1:58 am

@Pelican: don´t you think allowing drunken pilots to admit their fault without any consequences would be an invitation for them to drink??? Just like: "Well, I have to fly in a couple of hours but I want some drinks now. I´ll just call and tell them I´m drunk and they´ll find someone else."??? I think this is too easy. Of cause it´s better than actually entering the a/c. But it´s still no solution.
 
ltbewr
Posts: 12389
Joined: Thu Jan 29, 2004 1:24 pm

Pilot Arrested for operating under the influence

Sat Jan 15, 2005 2:29 am

To follow up on my suggestion that if a pilot is convicted or pleads guilty to attempting to FUI they should be made to spend some time in jail. During that time in jail or incarication, they shoud be required undergo counsuling to see if they have a drinking problem or are an alcoholic and undergo live-in rehab (including within the jail or even before or after serving time) if the counsuling indicates an need for it. Many states now require even 1st time DUI's to undergo counsuling, spend some time in a local jail or detention facility, and possibly do community service.
I would also agree that an airline should have a limited no penalty system to let a pilot withdraw from a flight if they are not fit to fly as may be under the influence.
Along with the embarissment, the costs of rehab, loss of income I would also not that some countries, incuding Canada, can deny entry to people with a DUI conviction.
 
aa777jr
Posts: 2269
Joined: Tue Feb 17, 2004 12:03 pm

Pilot Arrested for operating under the influence

Sat Jan 15, 2005 2:34 am

we must prepare FFDOs for every possible scenario.

I called my CFI to discuss when I can fly again, and he mentioned to me if I had read anything about this recent incident. He said when things like this happen, this early in the program, it doesn't boad well for himself, the guy that is being accused, or any other of his classmates that undertook the extreme training at ATS.

It really is sad to see that a pilot would risk everything he's gone through, and all the money he's spent, and time sacrificed for a few pre-flight adult beverages.
A liberal is a man who is right most of the time, but he's right too soon.

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Alcaeus, angusjt, Baidu [Spider], deltal1011man, euroflyer, hayzel777, KarelXWB, keesje, sassiciai, scbriml, speedygonzales, strfyr51, tnotten and 236 guests