2H4
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Report: 747ADV To Be Launched This Spring

Mon Jan 17, 2005 3:46 am

From http://www.sharewatch.com/story.php?storynumber=69352 :


FRANKFURT (AFX) - Boeing Co is planning to build a larger and modernised version of its 747 Jumbo aircraft, to be called 747 Advanced, that could sport 450 seats and the new generation 7E7 model's engine and technology, Handelsblatt newspaper said in a report to be published tomorrow, citing Randy Baseler, head of Boeing's marketing division.

"We are the only ones who can currently fill the gap between 400 and 500-seaters," Baseler told the newspaper.

The newspaper cited industry sources as saying Boeing is bent on launching the project this spring.



Kind of sketchy, but it will be interesting to see that report if it actually is published tomorrow.


2H4
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solnabo
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RE: Report: 747ADV To Be Launched This Spring

Mon Jan 17, 2005 3:58 am


I belive that when I see it on the tarmac! Just another stunt from B for the 380 s roll-out on Wednesday........

Micke  Insane
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Leskova
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RE: Report: 747ADV To Be Launched This Spring

Mon Jan 17, 2005 3:58 am

It's already on Handelsblatt's website, so it would be kind of surprising to not see it in print tomorrow...

http://www.handelsblatt.com/pshb/fn/relhbi/sfn/buildhbi/artpage/0/cn/GoArt!200012,200038,846903/SH/0/depot/0/

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solnabo
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RE: Report: 747ADV To Be Launched This Spring

Mon Jan 17, 2005 4:05 am

Sorry!!

I mean Tuesday, 18 of January Embarrassment

Micke
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speedbird128
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RE: Report: 747ADV To Be Launched This Spring

Mon Jan 17, 2005 4:05 am

So too will I believe this to be serious when I see the first prototype fly. We all know what happened to the Sonic Cruiser....
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Boeing Nut
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RE: Report: 747ADV To Be Launched This Spring

Mon Jan 17, 2005 4:06 am

Nyyeeeeehhhh,......... I'll believe it when I see it. As much as I want to see the 747 continue, I won't believe such reports until it appears on Boeing's website stating that the 747 Advanced has been officially launched. One reason I have doubts about this article is the last paragraph...

But if demand for large aircraft proves strong enough, (A380 competitor) it may consider developing its own super-sized jet, Boeing CEO Harry Stonecipher said in a German newspaper interview in November.

Boeing has strongly stated that they firmly believe that there won't be demand enough for two large aircraft in this market. For them to suddenly make an about face with this economy is suspect.


I'm not a real aeronautical engineer, I just play one on Airliners.net.
 
speedbird128
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RE: Report: 747ADV To Be Launched This Spring

Mon Jan 17, 2005 4:10 am

Yeah, I agree. Boeing have stated as much that there is room for the A380, and then were happy to watch while they forged ahead with the 7E7.

We may see more of this publicity leading up to the A380 rollout on Tuesday 18th....
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Planesmart
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RE: Report: 747ADV To Be Launched This Spring

Mon Jan 17, 2005 4:13 am

If there is not a viable market for the A38, according to B, how successful will two models be in this segment?

Naturally it's a spoiling / deflect publicity away from the A38 campaign. Expect to see some mockups / pictures released on Monday 17th.

B should put their energies into developing the 737 replacement.
 
mauriceb
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RE: Report: 747ADV To Be Launched This Spring

Mon Jan 17, 2005 4:22 am

B should put their energies into developing the 737 replacement

Totally agree, why Replace a slow selling aircraft instead of replacing there fastest selling product!?

sorry man but this doesn't make sense, the 737NG will be good for atleast another 5 years....
 
2H4
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RE: Report: 747ADV To Be Launched This Spring

Mon Jan 17, 2005 4:22 am

Naturally it's a spoiling / deflect publicity away from the A38 campaign. Expect to see some mockups / pictures released on Monday 17th.


That's that I was thinking, PlaneSmart. From a marketing perspective, it seems the 747ADV is to the A380 what the A350 is to the 7E7.


2H4
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speedbird128
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RE: Report: 747ADV To Be Launched This Spring

Mon Jan 17, 2005 4:28 am

Its the same as Randy Baseler (from Boeing) mouthing it off (reported in another thread) about how the A380 orders are no match for the 747 in a comparative time frame...
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DfwRevolution
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RE: Report: 747ADV To Be Launched This Spring

Mon Jan 17, 2005 4:59 am

B should put their energies into developing the 737 replacement.

The 737NG has not lost its competitive edge (though Boeing sales team might have  Big grin ) and while innovation is great, it must be balanced with sound fiscal sense. If Boeing can carve themselves a new niche with the 747-Adv, go for it by all means... the 737NG doesn't need replacement at the moment...

Its the same as Randy Baseler (from Boeing) mouthing it off (reported in another thread) about how the A380 orders are no match for the 747 in a comparative time frame...

They were launched at different times under different circumstances, but I think many would agree that the 747-400 is one of the most (if not the most) sucessful aircraft programs. 661 sales at a very high unit price is very impressive... probably more so than the 777.

The 747-Adv is basically a hybrid between the 747-400QXLR and new 7E7 technology. This probably means the risk associated with the program (and the critical mass required for launch) is lower than most other programs, but more than just CX will be required. Time to see what the Boeing sales team and RD divisions got  Big grin
 
MidnightMike
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RE: Report: 747ADV To Be Launched This Spring

Mon Jan 17, 2005 6:20 am

The 747-Advanced will be launched, Boeing is already working on it.
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trex8
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RE: Report: 747ADV To Be Launched This Spring

Mon Jan 17, 2005 6:23 am

If CX does announce a A380 order as other reports are saying, I would say the 747Adv is dead on arrival much as I would love to see the 747 go on for eternity!.
 
DfwRevolution
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RE: Report: 747ADV To Be Launched This Spring

Mon Jan 17, 2005 6:38 am

If CX does announce a A380 order as other reports are saying, I would say the 747Adv is dead on arrival

CX really is the star-gate on this one. I believe they are tendering an order for around 10-12 frames, either A388 or 747-Adv. That's light for a product launch, but if CX doesn't get the ball rolling, who will? And if CX does launch, who is going to follow-up?

I expect (and hope) there is market for the 747-Adv, but it needs mass or it will die on the vine. Who has yet to commit on a 773ER/A346/A388 solution and needs large aircraft?
 
atmx2000
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RE: Report: 747ADV To Be Launched This Spring

Mon Jan 17, 2005 6:45 am

Why would a 747Adv be dead on arrival? There is such a huge gap between the 773/A346 and the A380, and a A380 shrink would probably be too heavy. Moreover, the 747Adv will likely be a good cargo carrier. If the investment required is low, and Boeing can take advantage of investments they have made in the 7E7 program and 777 program, going for it makes sense.
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N1120A
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RE: Report: 747ADV To Be Launched This Spring

Mon Jan 17, 2005 6:51 am

>We all know what happened to the Sonic Cruiser....<

It became the 7E7

>Moreover, the 747Adv will likely be a good cargo carrier.<

Heavier lift and more versitile than the A380, and a plane LH Cargo has been begging for for 4-5 years

CX almost launched the 744QLR, but wanted a plug to make it 450 PAX sized. The 747ADV would be quieter, longer ranged and more efficient, so they would like it even more
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QFA001
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RE: Report: 747ADV To Be Launched This Spring

Mon Jan 17, 2005 8:04 am

If there is not a viable market for the A38, according to B, how successful will two models be in this segment?

If you'd bothered to read Boeing's Current Market Outlook, you'd probably get your answer.

Who has yet to commit on a 773ER/A346/A388 solution and needs large aircraft?

Just BA and CX (if you'll allow me to disclude their 3 leased A346s) out of anyone of note.
 
Rj111
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RE: Report: 747ADV To Be Launched This Spring

Mon Jan 17, 2005 8:17 am

People groan on about "filling the gap between the A380 and the 773ER/A346" but is it really necessary to add a whole new fleet when aircraft rotation could probably match the demand well enough?
 
DfwRevolution
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RE: Report: 747ADV To Be Launched This Spring

Mon Jan 17, 2005 8:20 am

Why would a 747Adv be dead on arrival? There is such a huge gap between the 773/A346 and the A380, and a A380 shrink would probably be too heavy.

The technical abilities and market potential are irrelevant if the market dynamics are negative. The 747-Adv could be a great airplane, but only if it's recieved well. Yes, there is a 100+ seat gap from the 773ER to the A388... but what if enough airlines don't want an aircraft in this niche? In many instances, the 773ER is just as much of a profit machine as the 744 while other fleets (like AF) want to consolidate to fewer long-haulers.

Just BA and CX (if you'll allow me to disclude their 3 leased A346s) out of anyone of note.

I'd argue that there are others out there, but minor in comparison to blue-chip customers like EK, QF, AF, LH, SQ, ect.

We have yet to see Northwest and China Airlines, ect...
 
QFA001
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RE: Report: 747ADV To Be Launched This Spring

Mon Jan 17, 2005 8:59 am

We have yet to see Northwest and China Airlines, ect...

Granted, I misplaced CI. However, by saying of note I was hoping to imply airlines that other airlines would care about what they did.  Big grin

NW is a good one to add the A346/B773ER list. However, those airplanes may be too large even for NW. I get the impression that the airline is embarking on changing its Pacific business model considering they laid down B7E7 deposits and are currently in A350 vs B7E7 negotiations.
 
NoUFO
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RE: Report: 747ADV To Be Launched This Spring

Mon Jan 17, 2005 9:04 am

An excerpt from the Handelsblatt article:

"Baseler did not want to confirm that Boeing will announce to accept orders for the '747 Advanced' as soon as on the Paris Airshow in June. Boeing's management will come to a decision over this year, Baseler said.
Experts say the estimated development costs are in the region of 2.5 billion Euro."
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PPVRA
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RE: Report: 747ADV To Be Launched This Spring

Mon Jan 17, 2005 9:18 am

Don't know about this... could kill the 773.

Anyways, if Boeing goes ahead with this... would the 747-Adv. look like an average 744 with some aerodynamic upgrades, or would Boeing re-design it without the "hump"?

Cheers,

PPVRA
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dbo861
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RE: Report: 747ADV To Be Launched This Spring

Mon Jan 17, 2005 9:24 am

Curious if it will become the 747-500, -600, 797, 787(considering Boeing leaves 7E7 as is and if 747ADV actually does get launched). I know this is premature speculation since we still don't even know what the final name of the 7E7 will be, but I'm curious to see what others think.
 
Rj111
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RE: Report: 747ADV To Be Launched This Spring

Mon Jan 17, 2005 9:24 am

Don't know about this... could kill the 773.

I'd say vice-versa has already happend.

would Boeing re-design it without the "hump"?

You may or may not be suprised to hear, that removing the hump would actually degrade the aerodynamics of the 747.

The 747adv is like a 744 but with about a 3m? stretch.
 
bennett123
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RE: Report: 747ADV To Be Launched This Spring

Mon Jan 17, 2005 9:55 am


This would certainly be good news. I do not see the continuing rise in passenger numbers being handled by an ever increasing number of slots.
If Boeing do not continue to develop the B747, it will be left behind.

People point out that this contradicts what Boeing said before, so what.

In the longer term, I think that both the B737 and B747 will need replacement.
The B737 replacement will use B7E7 technology, but will not IMO simply be a shrink of the B7E7. Equally the B747 replacement will use B7E7 technology, but will not simply be a streatched B7E7.

 
ConcordeBoy
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RE: Report: 747ADV To Be Launched This Spring

Mon Jan 17, 2005 9:56 am

I'd personally like to see the Hunchback of Puget Sound receive a bullet between the windshield panes and forever be put out of its misery....

...but there's unfortunately still a good chance of this happening.



Then again, there's also just about as good a chance of this one joining the 747X, 747-500X, 747QLR, 744XQLR, etc ranks. Here's hoping  Big thumbs up
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SNATH
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RE: Report: 747ADV To Be Launched This Spring

Mon Jan 17, 2005 10:01 am

Don't know about this... could kill the 773.

I very much doubt it. The difference in seating between the B773 and the B747Adv would be around 60-80 seats (fitting nicely between the B773/A346 and the A380), and that's a lot.

Anyways, if Boeing goes ahead with this... would the 747-Adv. look like an average 744 with some aerodynamic upgrades, or would Boeing re-design it without the "hump"?

The other advantage that the hump has is that the freighter version can be loaded from the nose, which gives it an advantage over the A380F. In fact, this was the original reason that Boeing introduced the hump on the original B747.

Tony
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lnglive1011yyz
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RE: Report: 747ADV To Be Launched This Spring

Mon Jan 17, 2005 10:08 am

Here we are on the dawn of a new day with the advent of the A380 -- granted, Airbus hasn't re-invented the wheel with the A380, but they certainly have modified it heavily..

It would be a total blunder on Boeings behalf to NOT have a counter-strike against Airbus SHOULD the A380 become a huge success. You can bet your bottom dollar, that there is a work-in-progress under TIGHT wraps to counter the A380 should it become a successful program.

For Boeing to sit back and NOT do anything would be like hacking gashes into ones arm -- may not kill you, but its certainly going to hurt.

We all think "now" when you think of success when it comes to airplanes, and, for the most part, so do the airlines. However, you also need to remember that the world is *Not* getting smaller, the population is growing exponentially, and the room in the skies is getting smaller with the current spacing infrastructure that is in place. Large aircraft COULD possibly be the way of the future.

Just my 0.02$

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ContinentalFan
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RE: Report: 747ADV To Be Launched This Spring

Mon Jan 17, 2005 10:42 am

I agree that it depends if a significant market for 450 seat planes exists... seems like many carriers are replacing 400 seat 744s with 773/346 size aircraft (or potentially 380 size)... maybe the way the airlines operations are structured in such a way that a gap in need exists at the 450 seat range.
 
DfwRevolution
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RE: Report: 747ADV To Be Launched This Spring

Mon Jan 17, 2005 10:42 am

The difference in seating between the B773 and the B747Adv would be around 60-80 seats (fitting nicely between the B773/A346 and the A380), and that's a lot.

It would be on the high end of 80 seats, too. The 747-Adv will likely seat 450, while the 773ER seats 360.

The 747adv is like a 744 but with about a 3m? stretch.

That's about right... but the freighter will be a different fuselage lenght than the passenger variant if both are actually launched. The stretch will be split ahead and behind the wing. Passenger capacity should be raised by about 8% and range up about 11%

Anyways, if Boeing goes ahead with this... would the 747-Adv. look like an average 744 with some aerodynamic upgrades, or would Boeing re-design it without the "hump"?

There will be aerodyanmic upgrades. The outer wing/winglets will be redesigned with a new wingtip, engine pylons and cowls will be improved, the tail cone might be tweaked, and new flaps are possible. The "hump" isn't going anywhere... in fact the forward stretch will make the hump longer...
 
Boeing Nut
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RE: Report: 747ADV To Be Launched This Spring

Mon Jan 17, 2005 10:50 am

Don't know about this... could kill the 773.

If anything, it will improve the Boeing line up. There is nearly a 100 passenger count difference between the two aircraft. (450 vs 368 - 82)

ConcordeBoy,

A sincere, just curious question.... what is it about the 747 that you don't care for?
I'm not a real aeronautical engineer, I just play one on Airliners.net.
 
airxliban
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RE: Report: 747ADV To Be Launched This Spring

Mon Jan 17, 2005 11:08 am

We all know what happened to the Sonic Cruiser....

Speculation has it that the Sonic Cruiser was just Boeing's way of hiding what they were really working on...

Anyway, from a sentimental point of view, I would like nothing more than to see a 747ADV as I am a big fan of the aircraft from in a non-tangible sense.

Regardless, I'm not sure that that sort of aircraft is the kind of thing airlines need or are looking for.
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PVG
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RE: Report: 747ADV To Be Launched This Spring

Mon Jan 17, 2005 11:20 am

While I'm not a full-time aviation nut like many of you, what I do observe from reading these posts and news articles about Boeing is that do not make decisions to invest resources in a new product lightly. For them to making this much noise about a 747ADV, I'm thinking that they more or less have done alot of homework and can see that the market is there. There are many airlines with large fleets of 747-400's that may not want to take a risk of trying to fill a 550 seat plane everyday and would like to keep the 747, but with advance features and a few extra seats for flexibility or space to enhance their premium class offerings on long-haul flights.

Everyone keeps talking about the Sonic Cruiser. Prior to 911, I remember reading that AA and CO were ready to take the first 3 year's production off the line. So, there was a market, but 911 and high fuel costs changed the dynamic so they decided not proceed. Sounds like prudent decision making to me. What's the problem?

I think that the 747ADV is a go and it will be very successful if they can price it right, which the key. Boeing needs to get away from this "we are a premium product and deserve a premium price" marketing strategy. It's obviously not working, airlines and management seem to be interested in what the fleet purchase is going to look like on the books today, not 20 years from now. If they really think that their products deserve a premium, then they should guarantee a buyback say 5-10 years down the line at a fixed price at the time of sale. Put your money where your mouth is, or change your strategy.
 
zvezda
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RE: Report: 747ADV To Be Launched This Spring

Mon Jan 17, 2005 11:22 am

PPVRA, the B747Adv would not kill the B777-300ER. On the other hand, the B747Adv would forclose any business case for further stretching the B777. It will retain the hump.

Dbo861, I expect the B747Adv will eventually be designated the B747-500.
 
trex8
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RE: Report: 747ADV To Be Launched This Spring

Mon Jan 17, 2005 11:40 am

there has been no more, or less, "noise" to substantiate that a 747Adv is more or less likely to happen than the X, QLR etc etc which got no where.
 
DfwRevolution
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RE: Report: 747ADV To Be Launched This Spring

Mon Jan 17, 2005 11:53 am

Speculation has it that the Sonic Cruiser was just Boeing's way of hiding what they were really working on...

Not exactly... the "Project Yellowstone" that the Sonic Cruiser emerged from was a case-study of four concepts: Mach 2.5+ transport, Mach 1.5+ transprort, Mach .95-1.05 transport, and finally a subsonic Mach .85 transport. The efficency steadily improved from the fastest to the slowest transport, but as the Mach .95-1.05 concept fell, it had roughly the economics of a 767 while having the speed necessary to boost utilization.

This third concept seemed obviously the most marketable, as it the 767 economics were acceptable, it appeared very innovative, ect. The rest, of course, it history: airlines didn't bite and the subsonic concept gained traction... it was never a secret...

I think that the 747ADV is a go and it will be very successful if they can price it right, which the key.

Some market yes, lots of market, probably not. Boeing may very well be undermining the A388 with the smaller 7E7 (yes they do compete), and the launch of the A350 could ultimatly confirm Boeing's strategy. The A388 won't flop, but I doubt very much that the 1,500 point mark will be reached from combine A388/747-Adv sales...
 
NYC777
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RE: Report: 747ADV To Be Launched This Spring

Mon Jan 17, 2005 11:57 am

I belive that when I see it on the tarmac! Just another stunt from B for the 380 s roll-out on Wednesday........

Dude,
How's that a stunt when Airbus is rolling out the plane on Tuesday and Boeing's planning on making an announcement months from now on the 747Adv? Sounds like you didn't think your comments through before posting them.
That which does not kill me makes me stronger.
 
JoFMO
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RE: Report: 747ADV To Be Launched This Spring

Mon Jan 17, 2005 12:02 pm

I don't know if there are a lot of carriers who want to operate a 747Adv side by side with an A380, because most current bigger 747 operators already ordered the A380. So I would say the chance is not that big to convince them to operate two different very large aircrafts. But all others like BA,UA,NW etc who haven't already decided for the A380 might be very interested in a 747Adv and could cancel their plans for an A380 completely.

 
DfwRevolution
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RE: Report: 747ADV To Be Launched This Spring

Mon Jan 17, 2005 12:16 pm

But all others like BA,UA,NW etc who haven't already decided for the A380 might be very interested in a 747Adv and could cancel their plans for an A380 completely.

UA really isn't in a position to finance their own headstone carving, so any new equippment is really out of the question...
 
PPVRA
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RE: Report: 747ADV To Be Launched This Spring

Mon Jan 17, 2005 12:33 pm

I thought the 747Adv would be the same size as the 744... But a 3m stretch can add a significant number of seats.

I stand corrected.

Anyways, if the 7e7 theory (point-point) turn out to be a success among airlines, the A380 will be in hot water if Boeing develops the 747 Adv... not because of direct competition, but rather the lack of connecting pax (drained by the 7E7/A350) to fill them up... at least in some cases.

We'll see...

Cheers,

PPVRA

"If goods do not cross borders, soldiers will" - Frederic Bastiat
 
PVG
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RE: Report: 747ADV To Be Launched This Spring

Mon Jan 17, 2005 1:34 pm

There has been alot of noise dating back several months on this issue. The difference that I see now as compared to previous attempts to market a new 747 is that this time there is enough jump in technology, efficiency, and design that they actually have something to sell. Previous attempts did not offer enough difference over current offerings to get anyone excited.

The other thing is that there is new no-nonsense management running the show. H.S. doesn't seem like the type who likes to waste his time, nor does he like to waste his client's time. I think these guys see an opportunity and see enough of a market there that it makes sense to go ahead.

With regard to A380 operators also using 747's, it's too early to tell. SQ has bought airbus in the past only to dump them once Boeing has matched or exceeded the Airbus offering. Alot of the early noise on the 747ADV came from Australia. We will only know the answer to this once the A380 goes into service and the operators get a feel for it's performance and their ability to fill the thing before we'll know who will operate what with what.
 
wdleiser
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RE: Report: 747ADV To Be Launched This Spring

Mon Jan 17, 2005 2:24 pm

The original reason for the cockpit and upper deck on the 747 was so incase heavy cargo were to shift, the pilots would be out of harms way. A 747 without the hump is well... not a 747!
 
airbus3801
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RE: Report: 747ADV To Be Launched This Spring

Mon Jan 17, 2005 3:11 pm

Oh please, this sounds just like a plot to draw attention away from the A380 rollout. Why would Boeing completly contridict themselves when they announce this aircraft, it comes too late in my opinion.The A350 just made it, but come on here, announce an aircraft to compete with the 380 when it comes out in a day? Sounds like more of Boeing jealousy to me then an acutal viable product, not to say that Airbus wouldn't do the same thing if they had a 747 Jumbo coming out.

[Edited 2005-01-17 07:18:31]
 
ConcordeBoy
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RE: Report: 747ADV To Be Launched This Spring

Mon Jan 17, 2005 3:14 pm

A sincere, just curious question.... what is it about the 747 that you don't care for?

Well....


...it's a quad; it looks like something Victor Hugo designed while on an acid trip; it's a quad; if/the faster it's killed, the better for 777NG sales; it's a quad, it's a quad, etc, and it's a quad.

[Edited 2005-01-17 07:15:33]
Faire du ciel le plus bel endroit de la terre c'est impossible sans Concorde!
 
2H4
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RE: Report: 747ADV To Be Launched This Spring

Mon Jan 17, 2005 3:17 pm

not to say that Airbus wouldn't do the same thing if they had a 747 Jumbo coming out.


Well, in a way, Airbus did do the same thing...they launched the A350.


2H4
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QFA001
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RE: Report: 747ADV To Be Launched This Spring

Mon Jan 17, 2005 3:25 pm

it looks like something Victor Hugo designed while on an acid trip

Perhaps the '47 could "be as a bird perched on a frail branch that she feels bending beneath her, still she sings away all the same, knowing she has wings."

Poor Victor. Poor B747.  Big grin
 
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RayChuang
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RE: Report: 747ADV To Be Launched This Spring

Mon Jan 17, 2005 5:53 pm

I think the big question right now is can the 747 Advanced fly non-stop between MEL and LAX on a full passenger/cargo load year-round? That type of thing could be attractive to QF, unless QF wants everyone to fly between SYD and LAX using the A380-800.

I do think the primary market for the 747 Advanced is the freighter version, a plane with enough range to fly between the US West Coast and eastern Asian destinations non-stop on a full load (e.g., LAX or SFO to NRT or ICN non-stop on full cargo load). Such a plane would be well-received by many air cargo operators since the 747 Advanced freighter will be able to handle outsized cargo loads that are not suitable for the A380-800F.
 
atmx2000
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RE: Report: 747ADV To Be Launched This Spring

Mon Jan 17, 2005 5:55 pm

So ConcordeBoy, would you object to any future aircraft with humps, even if they were twins?
ConcordeBoy is a twin supremacist!! He supports quadicide!!
 
Carpethead
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RE: Report: 747ADV To Be Launched This Spring

Mon Jan 17, 2005 5:58 pm

The problem is that Boeing will not invest in a new aircraft unless there's a market for the 747Adv. The US majors are in no shape to order with only CX or BA luke warmly interested. If Boeing waits too long for the start, many customers will have turned to the A388 for higher capacity and 773ER/A346 for lower capacity requirements. If Boeing chooses to go ahead with the 744Adv without customer interest and only a few airlines line-up for it then Boeing is stuck with a huge investment bill. Hard questions for the big guns in Chicago.

Conversely, the 747Adv could be a big winner if CX, JL & BA come aboard with equal or greater number of orders to replace its existing 744 fleet. Sadly, some airlines such as NH & SQ will no longer be future 747 operators regardless of 747Adv launch.