ssides
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Dallas & Ft. Worth Mayors Urge WN To Use DFW

Tue Jan 18, 2005 1:41 pm

I find this hard to believe:

http://www.dallasnews.com/sharedcontent/dws/dn/latestnews/stories/011805dnbussw.a465d.html

Both the mayors of Dallas and Ft. Worth are encouraging WN to use DFW, if only through its codeshare agreement with ATA. Basically, they say DFW needs support and more LCC competition.

WN isn't budging, saying it's digging in its heels at DAL and pushing for repeal of the Wright Amendment.

I hope this doesn't mean things at DFW are worse than they seem, given the Delta pullout.
"Lose" is not spelled with two o's!!!!
 
DfwRevolution
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RE: Dallas & Ft. Worth Mayors Urge WN To Use DFW

Tue Jan 18, 2005 1:49 pm

Both the mayors of Dallas and Ft. Worth are encouraging WN to use DFW

Did Miller change positions again? She was initially opposed to the W.A. abolition, then open to the idea, now back to opposition... This ends in Congress not Dallas' ugly City Hall... thanks for your thoughts Ms. Miller, nice to know you have the interest of the public in mind. Go back to protesting soccer fields a bunch of nuns wanted to build  Insane

if only through its codeshare agreement with ATA.

That being the exact reason WN did not offer a single code-share at DFW, they have no intention of clouding this issue.

Basically, they say DFW needs support and more LCC competition

Balognia.... the sixth largest airport with a strong hub presence, state-of-the-art facilities, and pleany of room for growth needs protection from piddly DAL? News flash: DAL is not the metro airport everyone is dying to use, for the majority of the metroplex, DFW is smack-dab in the middle of the region. It is the driving force in the economy now, not DAL.

http://www.aviationplanning.com/asrc1.htm#Hot%20Flash%20-%20November%2015,%202004
 
SHUPirate1
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RE: Dallas & Ft. Worth Mayors Urge WN To Use DFW

Tue Jan 18, 2005 2:07 pm

In other related news, American Airlines CEO Gerard Arpey is throwing a fit in his Fort Worth, Texas office...
Burma's constitutional referendum options: A. Yes, B. Go to Insein Prison!
 
paddy78
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RE: Dallas & Ft. Worth Mayors Urge WN To Use DFW

Tue Jan 18, 2005 3:23 pm

Ohhh...into the lion's den. Go for the throat WN! Get 'em!
Only amatures need the handles sticking out.
 
PHLBOS
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RE: Dallas & Ft. Worth Mayors Urge WN To Use DFW

Tue Jan 18, 2005 10:37 pm

WN isn't budging, saying it's digging in its heels at DAL and pushing for repeal of the Wright Amendment.

I hope this doesn't mean things at DFW are worse than they seem, given the Delta pullout.


Hopefully, Joe Leonard and company (FL) may be finally refocusing their expansion efforts at DFW; especially after WN outbid them on the TZ/MDW assets and gates.
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LY4XELD
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RE: Dallas & Ft. Worth Mayors Urge WN To Use DFW

Wed Jan 19, 2005 12:29 am

How many vacant gates are there at DAL? I would assume WN uses most, if not all (except for the CO Express gates) the gates. If that is the case, how is that bad for DFW if the availability simply doesn't exist at DAL?
That's why we're here.
 
ssides
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RE: Dallas & Ft. Worth Mayors Urge WN To Use DFW

Wed Jan 19, 2005 1:02 am

How many vacant gates are there at DAL? I would assume WN uses most, if not all (except for the CO Express gates) the gates.

There is an entire concourse at DAL that is unused. In terms of terminal space, WN could almost double its operation there.

This map is a bit dated (it still shows DL/ASA operations), but this gives you an idea of the open space at DAL:

http://www.dallas-lovefield.com/pdf/LoveFTerminalMapFINAL.pdf
"Lose" is not spelled with two o's!!!!
 
pr1268
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RE: Dallas & Ft. Worth Mayors Urge WN To Use DFW

Wed Jan 19, 2005 1:08 am

IIRC there are a lot of unused gates at DAL - not even counting the Legend Airlines gates (which are over in the East terminal [Correct me if I'm wrong]), but WN only uses that West concourse at DAL.

Off topic: The whole debate about DAL doesn't just involve commercial pax airlines; seeing how the City of Dallas has invested considerable sums of money in DAL, and there is an incredibly large amount of bizjet traffic there (lots of Learjets, Gulfstreams, King Airs, etc.) and some companies have maintenance bases there (I've seen several U.S. Navy P-3's flying in/out of DAL).

Dallas has to balance the concept of keeping their aviation crown jewel running well while keeping the NIMBY's happy. With bizjet competition just up the road at ADS and just down the road at RBD and fancy high-class neighborhoods encroaching DAL on all sides, this isn't an easy task.
The only time an aircraft has too much fuel is when it is on fire.
 
A350
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RE: Dallas & Ft. Worth Mayors Urge WN To Use DFW

Wed Jan 19, 2005 1:52 am

Sounds strange to me. In a market economy, after all, the needs of the customers should have the No 1 priority, nbot the needs of public institutions. If people prefer DAL over DFW, what's wrong with that?

We have many problems of that kind in europe, but I didn't know that also in the US the governements wants to avoid competition.

A350
 
UA744KSFO
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RE: Dallas & Ft. Worth Mayors Urge WN To Use DFW

Wed Jan 19, 2005 2:03 am

A350,

That's a very good point, and I might add that the Dallas/Fort Worth area has a large enough population to support two airports.

Think about it:

New York has JFK, LGA, EWR, ISP, and HPN.

Los Angeles has LAX, ONT, BUR, and SNA.

Chicago has ORD and MDW.

Houston has HOU and IAH.

Washington has IAD, DCA and BWI.

I think that Dallas can support two airports. Then, like in a free market economy, let the flying public decide what works best for them.
 
N1120A
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RE: Dallas & Ft. Worth Mayors Urge WN To Use DFW

Wed Jan 19, 2005 3:10 am

>Los Angeles has LAX, ONT, BUR, and SNA.<

LGB too

>In a market economy, after all, the needs of the customers should have the No 1 priority, nbot the needs of public institutions. If people prefer DAL over DFW, what's wrong with that?<

Adam Smith does not run the world, particularly that of transport. One of the problems here is that one of the two owners of DFW also owns DAL. Additionally, there is the large Tarrant County constituency that has a great deal of control over the decisions on DFW and has effectively lobbied for the protection of that.

>We have many problems of that kind in europe, but I didn't know that also in the US the governements wants to avoid competition.<

In many ways, the US government, especially state and local governments, are much more anti-competitive than European governments. This is especially true in the case of service industries. There is more ill-placed responsibility in a non-proportional system so law makers are often more indebted to private interests in the US than they are in Europe. Because of this, they often support things like this while saying how much they love the free market. DFW is a classic case of this, after all, Wright is named for Ft. Worth's Rep. who worked this through congress
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LY4XELD
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RE: Dallas & Ft. Worth Mayors Urge WN To Use DFW

Wed Jan 19, 2005 3:30 am

If people prefer DAL over DFW, what's wrong with that?

The City of Dallas would be the one who gains from people preferring DAL over DFW. DFW was created to avoid an unfair distribution of these gains between the cities of Dallas and Fort Worth. This would negate the whole reason why DFW was established as a joint venture. Ideally, they could coexist as they do now with the Wright Amendment repealed (not an easy thing to do).
That's why we're here.
 
Midway2AirTran
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RE: Dallas & Ft. Worth Mayors Urge WN To Use DFW

Wed Jan 19, 2005 3:32 am

DFW authorities probably shot themselves in the foot on this one. From my personal observations, they've backed AA's barriers of entry to new service at DFW in past years; probably not intentially though. They should have done something proactive to stop it before they came to this situation.

Now most LCC's have their growth plans set elsewhere, with exception to FL's mini-hub, and nobody's going to be able to fill the DL void in the short period time that the airport authorities want, even with the incentives that were offered. However I am sure it will be filled over a longer period of time.
"Life is short, but your delay in ATL is not."
 
MDW22L31C
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RE: Dallas & Ft. Worth Mayors Urge WN To Use DFW

Wed Jan 19, 2005 3:36 am

Jet Blue could make a very nice presence at DFW.
 
OPNLguy
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RE: Dallas & Ft. Worth Mayors Urge WN To Use DFW

Wed Jan 19, 2005 5:41 am

>>>That's a very good point, and I might add that the Dallas/Fort Worth area has a large enough population to support two airports.

Another aspect of the problem, IMHO, is that Ft. Worth and Tarrant County have an inferiority complex of sorts. No matter how good it looks on a map (having Ft. Worth on one side with Dallas on the other, and balancing on DFW in the middle) the "scale" has historically been tipped in Dallas' favor based on population, wealth, or whatever other demographic one wishes to use. Not to say that Ft. Worth is a bad place, not at all, just that it's not the same size as Dallas, just like Fort Lauderdale isn't as big as Miami, or Colorado Springs isn't as big as Denver.

Yet, everyone seems afraid to acknowledge any of this. DAL Love Field shouldn't be restricted any more than FLL or COS are, as they draw from different parts of their local areas. Ditto the situations elsewhere with SoCal and Bay area airports, and lots of other places. Were the WA abolished and SWA (or any airline) allowed to operate from DAL without restriction, it would tend to make Ft. Worth/Tarrant County inferior to Dallas in the eyes of whomever.

All that said, there is indeed alot of development In Fort Worth/Tarrant County, and at some point, it may be enough to convince someone to start service out of Meacham (FTW). Numerous entities have tried in the past, and failed there, but maybe the future will be different. If it takes 10-20 years for the area around FTW to generate traffic, it'd be senseless and unfair to deny expansion at DAL until expansion was possible at FTW, just to keep things "even" and pander to the notion (by some) that Dallas and Fort Worth are (or should be) equals.

So the solution proposed by the Ft. Worth and Dallas city hall folks is to do nothing, keeping the peace of the status quo, and oh by the way protecting AA from competition at DFW. The fact that governments are denying a business (SWA, who has built a better mousetrap) the opportunity to run that business (out of DAL) speaks more to what they're trying to protect, rather than promote as savings for the traveling public.

[Edited 2005-01-18 21:53:14]
ALL views, opinions expressed are mine ONLY and are NOT representative of those shared by Southwest Airlines Co.
 
william
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RE: Dallas & Ft. Worth Mayors Urge WN To Use DFW

Wed Jan 19, 2005 6:08 am

Sure is a alot whining about poor SWA and DAL. SWA knew the rules back in the 70s,and now want to change them. Sure the Wright Admendment is wrong, but the law is the law.
 
RogerThat
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RE: Dallas & Ft. Worth Mayors Urge WN To Use DFW

Wed Jan 19, 2005 6:21 am

Speaking of P3's....Does anyone know what's up with the P3's at Love?

I can't imagine there is much need for sub patrols out of Dallas.


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philhyde
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RE: Dallas & Ft. Worth Mayors Urge WN To Use DFW

Wed Jan 19, 2005 6:36 am

Sure is a alot whining about poor SWA and DAL. SWA knew the rules back in the 70s,and now want to change them. Sure the Wright Admendment is wrong, but the law is the law.

So what's wrong with trying to change the law?

cheers,
Phil
Canon junkie - Aviation Nut
 
OPNLguy
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RE: Dallas & Ft. Worth Mayors Urge WN To Use DFW

Wed Jan 19, 2005 6:38 am

>>>SWA knew the rules back in the 70s,and now want to change them.

For years, SWA was "passionately neutral" on the WA, i.e. it was tolerated, but once Delta announced their plans to scuttle their DFW hub changed things. SWA's ability to react to a change in the competitive landscape is now hamstrung by the 25-year old relic that's outlived its purpose.

>>>Sure the Wright Admendment is wrong,

Yep!

>>>but the law is the law.

...for how much longer remains to be seen...  Big grin
ALL views, opinions expressed are mine ONLY and are NOT representative of those shared by Southwest Airlines Co.
 
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N328KF
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RE: Dallas & Ft. Worth Mayors Urge WN To Use DFW

Wed Jan 19, 2005 7:45 am

Rogerthat:

I don't know exactly, but Lockheed has major facilities in the area.
When they call the roll in the Senate, the Senators do not know whether to answer 'Present' or 'Not guilty.' -Theodore Roosevelt
 
OPNLguy
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RE: Dallas & Ft. Worth Mayors Urge WN To Use DFW

Wed Jan 19, 2005 7:54 am

>>>Speaking of P3's....Does anyone know what's up with the P3's at Love?

Well, Bachman Lake is pretty deep....  Big grin

Rockwell Collins used to have a facility on the SE side of the airport (since vacated and now the new home of the Frontiers of Flight Museum), and many came in for a visit there. We still see them here and hear them at the run-up pad, so I'm presuming somebody here does MX work on them.

Lockheed Martin (formerly General Dynamics) has a big facility at the former Carswell AFB, now a reserve base (NFW), but I don't know if any P-3 work is accomplished there.
ALL views, opinions expressed are mine ONLY and are NOT representative of those shared by Southwest Airlines Co.
 
DfwRevolution
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RE: Dallas & Ft. Worth Mayors Urge WN To Use DFW

Wed Jan 19, 2005 8:08 am

Lockheed Martin (formerly General Dynamics) has a big facility at the former Carswell AFB, now a reserve base (JRB / Carswell Field (AFB) (NFW / KFWH), USA - Texas">NFW), but I don't know if any P-3 work is accomplished there.

There was another Naval Air Station south of Arlington before the JRB was consolidated in Ft. Worth... could be from that base as well

but the law is the law.

So was prohibition, forbidding women to vote, and owning other human beings was legal at a point in our history  Big grin

Sure is a alot whining about poor SWA and DAL. SWA knew the rules back in the 70s,and now want to change them.

The entire economic, political, geographical, and demographical landscape of the DFW metroplex has changed radically since DFW was chartered. Time for the laws to change with the times...

And ask yourself this, why is it acceptable for Ft. Worth to have Alliance cargo airport which unquestionably bleeds cargo traffic from DFW? And WN is not allowed to bleed a small amount of passenger traffic to their airport of choice? Plain hypocracy!!
 
OPNLguy
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RE: Dallas & Ft. Worth Mayors Urge WN To Use DFW

Wed Jan 19, 2005 8:29 am

While I don't always agree with everything Mike Boyd writes, I think he's accurately assessed this one... (From Nov 2004).

http://www.aviationplanning.com/asrc1.htm#Hot%20Flash%20-%20November%2015,%202004
ALL views, opinions expressed are mine ONLY and are NOT representative of those shared by Southwest Airlines Co.
 
moman
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RE: Dallas & Ft. Worth Mayors Urge WN To Use DFW

Wed Jan 19, 2005 8:35 am

Another aspect of the problem, IMHO, is that Ft. Worth and Tarrant County have an inferiority complex of sorts. No matter how good it looks on a map (having Ft. Worth on one side with Dallas on the other, and balancing on DFW in the middle) the "scale" has historically been tipped in Dallas' favor based on population, wealth, or whatever other demographic one wishes to use. Not to say that Ft. Worth is a bad place, not at all, just that it's not the same size as Dallas, just like Fort Lauderdale isn't as big as Miami, or Colorado Springs isn't as big as Denver.

Not to get off topic, but this is the exact problem that we have in the Tampa Bay area with TPA & PIE. Pinellas county wants to expand PIE so it can further compete with TPA even though the economics of doing so are not yet there. It's a "jealous little brother syndrome". Most of the businesses in the area are in Hillsborough country.

I think the Dallas metro area is big enough to support both DFW & DAL competing openly. It would be the same as ORD & MDW in Chicago. Each airport caters to a different crowd. DFW would go for the long hauls and international flights while DAL would be more for regional and intra-country flying. MDW and DAL are very similar.

Moman
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2H4
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RE: Dallas & Ft. Worth Mayors Urge WN To Use DFW

Wed Jan 19, 2005 8:47 am

Speaking of P3's....Does anyone know what's up with the P3's at Love?


After scouring the net, all I've been able to learn is that they likely belong to NAWC-23....and there is NO online info about that squadron.


2H4


Intentionally Left Blank
 
OPNLguy
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RE: Dallas & Ft. Worth Mayors Urge WN To Use DFW

Wed Jan 19, 2005 8:57 am

According to this, they're based here at DAL...

http://home.wxs.nl/~p3orion/sqn.html
ALL views, opinions expressed are mine ONLY and are NOT representative of those shared by Southwest Airlines Co.
 
2H4
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RE: Dallas & Ft. Worth Mayors Urge WN To Use DFW

Wed Jan 19, 2005 9:03 am

Yeah, I found that page, too. Good luck finding any more detailed info about them, though.  Big grin


2H4
Intentionally Left Blank
 
OPNLguy
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RE: Dallas & Ft. Worth Mayors Urge WN To Use DFW

Wed Jan 19, 2005 9:16 am

>>>There was another Naval Air Station south of Arlington before the JRB was consolidated in Ft. Worth... could be from that base as well

If you're referring to the former NAS-Dallas (NBE) over towards the Grand Prairie/Dallas border, they closed down in the mid-1990s sometime. There was talk of the City of Dallas recycling the base for new use, but nothing ever came out of it that I'm aware of.
ALL views, opinions expressed are mine ONLY and are NOT representative of those shared by Southwest Airlines Co.
 
PapaNovember
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RE: Dallas & Ft. Worth Mayors Urge WN To Use DFW

Wed Jan 19, 2005 11:20 am


If they repeal the Wright Amendment and Southwest can fly beyond our neighbors, American will offer flights from Love Field, and Southwest, as a result, might begin offering flights from DFW....?





 
OPNLguy
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RE: Dallas & Ft. Worth Mayors Urge WN To Use DFW

Wed Jan 19, 2005 11:41 am

>>>If they repeal the Wright Amendment and Southwest can fly beyond our neighbors, American will offer flights from Love Field, and Southwest, as a result, might begin offering flights from DFW....?

I seriously doubt it. The costs at DFW are high, and they'd still be high if AA decided to serve DAL...
ALL views, opinions expressed are mine ONLY and are NOT representative of those shared by Southwest Airlines Co.
 
SWALoveField
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RE: Dallas & Ft. Worth Mayors Urge WN To Use DFW

Wed Jan 19, 2005 11:44 am

The more things change the more they stay the same. 1975=2005

The Wright Amendment secured WN's success. It was at all costs that Herb was going to do what he was told he couldn't do at DAL.

With history on its side WN will win whatever battle it chooses.

DFW is a great airport and DAL serves a basic function.
 
barney captain
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RE: Dallas & Ft. Worth Mayors Urge WN To Use DFW

Wed Jan 19, 2005 12:51 pm

Check this out. You just have to LUV how are management plays (hard) ball!!

By Margaret Allen
Dallas Business Journal
Updated: 7:00 p.m. ET Jan. 16, 2005

Dallas-based Southwest Airlines Co. will further cut flights at Dallas Love Field if lawmakers don't lift federal restrictions that limit long-haul service from the close-in airport.

Without long-haul flights, the airline's Boeing 737s from Dallas to its 13 short-haul destinations are underutilized, Ron Ricks, vice president of Southwest, told the Dallas Business Journal.

Ricks declined to say how many flights could be cut, or how soon.

The airline last trimmed its Dallas schedule by seven flights, from 130 to 123, in October of 2004. It normally makes such decisions on a semi-annual basis, he said.

The warning comes as Southwest has announced it will fight to get the federal Wright Amendment lifted. The 1979 law -- meant to protect Dallas/Fort Worth International Airport from competition -- limits scheduled, commercial service at Love Field to short-haul flights to nearby states.

Southwest CEO Gary Kelly shook a bitter 20-year truce in December when he announced the airline was no longer neutral on the law and would lobby legislators. Ricks said the turning point was Southwest's inability to revive short-haul traffic after recession and 9/11 stalled the nation's airline traffic.

Short-haul suffers Southwest operates 123 flights from 14 gates at Love Field, which falls below the 10-flights-per-gate national average. Before 9/11, Southwest operated 147 flights from Love.

"After 9/11, short-haul traffic was decimated and it hasn't come back," he said. "The most aggressive marketer in airline history with the lowest fares cannot grow at Love Field. If we can't grow at Love Field, no one can."

The airline has tried everything, Ricks said, but the automobile has re-emerged as a serious competitor on short-haul flights.

Southwest must use its planes where they can generate the most revenue, and that's not Love Field, Ricks said.

"There is no point in continuing to invest, or grow at Love Field, and hence in Dallas, absent change in the Wright Amendment," he said. "Stasis at Love Field, combined with significant growth elsewhere, means that, over time, Dallas becomes less important to our business plan. As that continues, Dallas becomes less competitive for future investment in terms of planes, people and capital investment."

Southwest began more than 35 years ago as a short-haul carrier serving Texas. It then picked up its low-cost, quick turnaround model and applied it to long-haul flights in 60 markets. Since 9/11, Southwest has been the only consistently profitable carrier among the major airlines.

If Southwest flew long-haul flights from Love, the competition could drive down D/FW's fares by up to 70%, Ricks said.

D/FW Airport has declared war against eliminating the Wright Amendment. The airport is deeply in debt with the cost of a new multibillion-dollar international terminal, built primarily for fortress carrier American Airlines Inc. (NYSE: AMR). Delta Air Lines Inc.'s massive flight cuts have also freed up more than 20 gates."We are reluctantly being brought into this battle," said Kevin Cox, D/FW's chief operating officer. "It will be costly and inevitably a divisive battle."

In the past, Kansas and Tennessee sought to repeal the Wright Amendment, seeking lower air fares for their cities. Also, Southwest's arrival usually increases traffic up to five times. Ricks hopes Texas will lead.

But U.S. Sen. Kay Bailey Hutchison, R-Texas, didn't have encouraging words for Southwest.

"The Texas delegation might be split," Hutchison said. "Members in some areas are concerned about high fares. So they could have support for repeal in some areas. But North Texas members would be concerned about any kind of (revenue bond) default at D/FW because it would have such ramifications on our taxpayers."

Some say Southwest should be forced to move to D/FW. Hutchison said that wouldn't be right. During the previous legal battle over flights from Love Field, federal courts refused eight times to evict Southwest from city-owned Love. Keep reducing flts, and federal courts just may evict them.

After having fought for years to win the right to fly from Love, Ricks said the airline will now wage a grass-roots battle.

"We're very patient. It may take many years," Ricks said. "This is not about Southwest. It's about the freedom to fly."

Southeast Of Disorder
 
sccutler
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RE: Dallas & Ft. Worth Mayors Urge WN To Use DFW

Wed Jan 19, 2005 1:14 pm

Time, clearly, to mandate closure of the FedEx hub and AA MX base at AFW.

AFW, in Fort Worth, serves certificated carriers, flying unrestricted to all other states. They could be at DFW, but they are not.

Ft. Worth officials are AA's bitch on this deal.

Sauce for the goose...
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JonnyGT
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RE: Dallas & Ft. Worth Mayors Urge WN To Use DFW

Wed Jan 19, 2005 1:23 pm

I'm really behind Southwest in this fight, mostly because it would be extremely convient for me to go on flight from DAL considering I live 2 miles from the airport across 75 on Mockingbird Lane.
 
Lt-AWACS
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RE: Dallas & Ft. Worth Mayors Urge WN To Use DFW

Wed Jan 19, 2005 1:35 pm

I wonder, how much "hardball" WN is willing to play? They talk about reducing flights, and the article also notes being evicted as an option-- If WN gets booted from DAL (not likely now I know) would they open somewhere in North Texas? FTW or AFW? Would they move their HQs (again not likely now) to somewhere else in Texas? Austin, Houston, etc?
This is getting interesting fairly quickly.

Sidenote: IIRC the Texas Guard took over Navy Dallas, anyone know for sure??

Ciao, and Hook 'em Horns,
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RogerThat
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RE: Dallas & Ft. Worth Mayors Urge WN To Use DFW

Wed Jan 19, 2005 1:37 pm

Thanks to all of you who posted info about the P3 squadron. I find it odd that our government would base a sub chaser in land-locked Dallas. Looking over the page OPNLguy posted, all of the other P3 squadrons are based in coastal cities. Maybe the threat of a Russian sub sailing up the Trinity river is greater than I thought.

Perhaps the USN will move NAWC-23 to the old Delta gates at DFW.
 
2H4
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RE: Dallas & Ft. Worth Mayors Urge WN To Use DFW

Wed Jan 19, 2005 1:54 pm

Actually, Rogerthat, it's kind of ironic...I had Lt-AWACS in mind when I posted my replies on the subject of the DAL P3's. I was hoping he'd be able to shed some light on it.

I often wondered about the P3's myself, when I was working at WN headquarters there at DAL. Never did find anything out. I'll keep scouring the net.  Big grin


2H4
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Lt-AWACS
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RE: Dallas & Ft. Worth Mayors Urge WN To Use DFW

Wed Jan 19, 2005 2:00 pm

The only P-3s I ever worked with in Texas were the US Customs' ones in Corpus. I've never seen them at DAL. Navy Ft Worth (Carswell) often and Greenville once, but never DAL. It's a mystery to me LOL.

Ciao, and Hook 'em Horns,
Capt-AWACS, I have no children and the paperwork to prove it
Io voglio fica ogni giorni da mia bella moglie!
 
OPNLguy
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RE: Dallas & Ft. Worth Mayors Urge WN To Use DFW

Wed Jan 19, 2005 2:16 pm

>>>After scouring the net, all I've been able to learn is that they likely belong to NAWC-23....and there is NO online info about that squadron.

I did some checking, and was able to find out that hey! what are you doing here! #^&(_BU()D^TP(OH)(P)*TYTEU*&*OPP{L_+
NO CARRIER
ALL views, opinions expressed are mine ONLY and are NOT representative of those shared by Southwest Airlines Co.
 
2H4
Posts: 7960
Joined: Tue Oct 19, 2004 11:11 pm

RE: Dallas & Ft. Worth Mayors Urge WN To Use DFW

Wed Jan 19, 2005 2:21 pm

Cool....there's a job opening at HDQ.....

 Big thumbs up


2H4
Intentionally Left Blank
 
swadispatcher
Posts: 420
Joined: Wed May 12, 2004 9:12 am

RE: Dallas & Ft. Worth Mayors Urge WN To Use DFW

Wed Jan 19, 2005 2:23 pm

There's currently a poll on the NBC affiliate's (KXAS) website regarding the Wrong Amendment.

http://www.nbc5i.com/travelgetaways/4103367/detail.html

An overwhelming majority of folks polled believe the amendment should be axed..
Maintain 2300 until Boiler, cleared for the VOR-A approach, report BATLE inbound..
 
atmx2000
Posts: 4301
Joined: Wed Oct 13, 2004 4:24 pm

RE: Dallas & Ft. Worth Mayors Urge WN To Use DFW

Wed Jan 19, 2005 2:25 pm

more ill-placed responsibility in a non-proportional system

What the hell does that mean?
ConcordeBoy is a twin supremacist!! He supports quadicide!!
 
OPNLguy
Posts: 11191
Joined: Tue Jun 15, 1999 11:29 am

RE: Dallas & Ft. Worth Mayors Urge WN To Use DFW

Wed Jan 19, 2005 2:27 pm

>>>Cool....there's a job opening at HDQ.....

Oh..no you don't....!  Big grin
ALL views, opinions expressed are mine ONLY and are NOT representative of those shared by Southwest Airlines Co.
 
2H4
Posts: 7960
Joined: Tue Oct 19, 2004 11:11 pm

RE: Dallas & Ft. Worth Mayors Urge WN To Use DFW

Wed Jan 19, 2005 2:56 pm

Ok, another shred of information about the P-3 squadron:

P-3A, serial number 5128152158, was delivered to the Navy on April 23, 1965. According to http://home.wxs.nl/~p3orion/p3aloc.html, it is (or was) assigned to NAWC-23, and is listed as a "non-flying special purpose a/c".

Whatever that is.


 Confused


2H4
Intentionally Left Blank
 
Type-Rated
Posts: 3901
Joined: Sun Sep 19, 1999 5:18 am

RE: Dallas & Ft. Worth Mayors Urge WN To Use DFW

Wed Jan 19, 2005 4:35 pm

Dallas becomes less important to our business plan

and

Delta Air Lines Inc.'s massive flight cuts have also freed up more than 20 gates

I never thought I'd see the day where I would read something like this!

 Wow!  Wow!  Wow!  Wow!

Fly North Central Airlines..The route of the Northliners!
 
3201
Posts: 813
Joined: Sun Oct 10, 2004 4:16 pm

RE: Dallas & Ft. Worth Mayors Urge WN To Use DFW

Wed Jan 19, 2005 5:02 pm

I think the P-3's at DAL are there to patrol for these:

http://www.ncxri.com/tremors.htm

7 hours aint long-haul
 
OPNLguy
Posts: 11191
Joined: Tue Jun 15, 1999 11:29 am

RE: Dallas & Ft. Worth Mayors Urge WN To Use DFW

Wed Jan 19, 2005 9:52 pm

>>>Maybe the threat of a Russian sub sailing up the Trinity river is greater than I thought.

Maybe so... One of the TV traffic helos caught this shot this morning in the Trinity River near Trinidad, Texas...  Big grin

http://www.hazegray.org/features/russia/osc1-02.jpg
ALL views, opinions expressed are mine ONLY and are NOT representative of those shared by Southwest Airlines Co.
 
jsnww81
Posts: 2307
Joined: Mon Jan 28, 2002 3:29 am

RE: Dallas & Ft. Worth Mayors Urge WN To Use DFW

Thu Jan 20, 2005 1:20 am

I wouldn't be surprised to see Southwest up the ante even more significantly on this one... possibly to the point where they threaten a complete relocation of their headquarters (to someplace like Phoenix or Houston). They've been extremely quiet on the DAL issue for years, and have built themselves into one of Dallas' best corporate citizens. Threatening to walk might be a great way to get the loons on Ervay Street to listen to them.

I've always questioned why Alliance Airport was allowed to grow and prosper while essentially thumbing its nose at the Wright Amendment. True, AFW serves no passenger flights, but there's plenty of open land at DFW that could have housed the American heavy maintenance base or the FedEx sorting hub. If Fort Worth was really fighting for "DFW's best interests" they'd have insisted those facilities be built at DFW.

This fight keeps getting more interesting...
 
Okie
Posts: 3608
Joined: Wed Jul 16, 2003 11:30 am

RE: Dallas & Ft. Worth Mayors Urge WN To Use DFW

Thu Jan 20, 2005 1:20 am

Well the management at WN did not fall out of the back of a Turbo Porter last night. WN gets more mileage out of press release/interview than about anybody.

Sure with the upsizing of the fleet to larger aircraft flights will decrease. (obviously not mentioned)

IMO the main problem with passenger traffic at DAL is that with the time to get to the airport/get through increased security/rent a car, then get to your destination it is time wise pretty much a wash for a 3.5hr drive by auto point to point. Basically competing with the auto was one of the original ideas that WN was developed around and was mentioned in the article. So with that in mind the business model has changed as far as things stand now. Unless I-20, I-35, and I-45 turn into a parking lot, a better/faster way is determined to get through security, or the WA lifted no growth will happen at DAL.

Okie

 
SPREE34
Posts: 1574
Joined: Tue Jun 29, 2004 6:09 am

RE: Dallas & Ft. Worth Mayors Urge WN To Use DFW

Thu Jan 20, 2005 1:27 am

...........Would they move their HQs ...............

MCO, PHX, or LAS would be good bets.
I don't understand everything I don't know about this.

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