bmi330
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Not That Impressed With The A388 After The Hype.

Thu Jan 20, 2005 3:42 am

I was looking through the paper today and it showed the a380 against a 744 and to be honest what's all the hype about its not longer its not much taller than the 744s hump and it slower SO why is it the future? Its just a slightly bigger 744. I hope the a389 is more impressive.
 
A320319318
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RE: Not That Impressed With The A388 After The Hype.

Thu Jan 20, 2005 3:44 am

Excuse me??????, not impressed?...........the A380 will change travel the way the 747 did!....it's the new queen of the skies. All TV news channels had specials on it. I take it you prefer Boeing
 
DAYflyer
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RE: Not That Impressed With The A388 After The Hype.

Thu Jan 20, 2005 3:54 am

I have to agree with Bmi330. The TV channels had specials on it...gee they have reality TV shows and sitcoms too. I am not impressed, it is one big ugly airplane and I sure as hell wont want to squeeze into any 800 seat flying albatross. You can bet your flotation cushion none of the US Airlines would order it any other way than with 700 seats and MAYBE 1 or 2 bars-if they ever order it at all. They can forget the shopping, workout room, etc etc. That's pure fantasy.

All Boeing has to do is to enlarge the hump to run almost the length of the plane, add a couple of feet of wingspan and slighty larger engines and you have an A380.

By the way, I'm not a big fan of having the wing root box made of composites either, the way the A-380 has it.
One Nation Under God
 
Udo
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RE: Not That Impressed With The A388 After The Hyp

Thu Jan 20, 2005 4:01 am

I sure as hell wont want to squeeze into any 800 seat flying albatross.

Which airline is planning to fly it in all-Eco???


All Boeing has to do is to enlarge the hump to run almost the length of the plane, add a couple of feet of wingspan and slighty larger engines and you have an A380.

If it's so easy - why isn't Boeing doing it? Probably they just need an engineer like YOU?  Laugh out loud


By the way, I'm not a big fan of having the wing root box made of composites either, the way the A-380 has it.

Watch out - Boeing's 7E7 will consist of even more composite parts...  Wink/being sarcastic


Regards
Udo
Me & You & a Plane Named Blue...
 
MaverickM11
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RE: Not That Impressed With The A388 After The Hype.

Thu Jan 20, 2005 4:10 am

"the A380 will change travel the way the 747 did!...."

Not in Noel Forgeard's wildest dreams! The A380 represents a 30+% increase in seats over the 747 whereas the 747 was a 170% increase in seating capacity over it's next biggest successful competitor, the 707, at the time of its unveiling. The A380 is a nice plane, but in reality it's just a bigger, better 747. It will not revolutionize much of anything beyond reducing unit costs and possibly upgrading the first and business class experience.
E pur si muove -Galileo
 
DAYflyer
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RE: Not That Impressed With The A388 After The Hype.

Thu Jan 20, 2005 4:15 am

Watch out - Boeing's 7E7 will consist of even more composite parts

Not the wing root. Fuselage, yes; wings yes.

If it's so easy - why isn't Boeing doing it? Probably they just need an engineer like YOU?

They decided rather to focus energy and money they have to EARN on a plane with a real future in the market, the 7e7. And yes, I have a college degree in Aviation Technology from Northwestern. Do you??

Which airline is planning to fly it in all-Eco???

Knowing the geniuses we have here running the USA airlines right now, I have no doubt some American carrier CEO will come up with that brilliant idea. Acting devilish

One Nation Under God
 
Udo
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RE: Not That Impressed With The A388 After The Hyp

Thu Jan 20, 2005 4:21 am

They decided rather to focus energy and money they have to EARN on a plane with a real future in the market, the 7e7.

You made it sound as an easy re-fit. Don't you remember what you said?
And as far as the possible future market is concerned, it's likely both models will succeed.


And yes, I have a college degree in Aviation Technology from Northwestern. Do you??

I have never questioned your skills - I just suggested you should speak up at Boeing.  Wink/being sarcastic


Regards
Udo
Me & You & a Plane Named Blue...
 
daedaeg
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RE: Not That Impressed With The A388 After The Hype.

Thu Jan 20, 2005 4:28 am

Bmi hype is all it is. Airbus has chosen prestige over value.  Smile
Everyday you're alive is a good day.
 
Udo
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RE: Not That Impressed With The A388 After The Hyp

Thu Jan 20, 2005 4:30 am

Bmi hype is all it is. Airbus has chosen prestige over value.

What exactly is "value" in your opinion? Can you provide a definition? And as long as the customers buy the prestige object, I don't see a problem...  Wink/being sarcastic


Regards
Udo
Me & You & a Plane Named Blue...
 
jacobin777
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RE: Not That Impressed With The A388 After The Hype.

Thu Jan 20, 2005 4:31 am

or a blue coloured A388 (heck, Airbus already painted the A380 in B6's colour scheme)...it fits B6's "commonality" fleet very well....thats until the Embraers come along..
"Up the Irons!"
 
singaporegirl
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RE: Not That Impressed With The A388 After The Hype.

Thu Jan 20, 2005 4:36 am

i'm not some airline ceo, nor trying to pretend to be one... but as a singapore airlines cabin crew, i can attest that there are some airlines out there (like sq) that really need very large aircrafts, such as the a380s. i've been flying for sq for almost 10 years now and i've seen the increase of pax... for e.g. the sin-lhr leg. it did go down for a little bit after 9/11 or during the sars crisis, but today we have more pax flying that route than we did in 2000. as you all know that lhr has slot restrictions, therefore (at least for the moment) sq can't send any more aeroplanes to lhr. our megatops hold 375 in 3 classes and the a380 will carry 490 in 3 classes, therefore that's going to be a substantial increase for us, w/o sending out anymore flights. also with the a380s sq will able to provide more pampering towards our premium f/j pax (which tend to be our frequent flyers, and big revenue for sq in general) with the extra cabin space that we're going to have, which is important for us in order to compete with ba or qf who are operating the same route.
Ladies & Gentlemen, we will now demonstrate the use of the safety equipment on this aircraft...
 
gigneil
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RE: Not That Impressed With The A388 After The Hyp

Thu Jan 20, 2005 4:42 am

I was looking through the paper today and it showed the a380 against a 744 and to be honest what's all the hype about its not longer its not much taller than the 744s hump and it slower SO why is it the future?

The A380 will cruise M0.05 faster than a 747 and have a max speed comparable at M0.89.

Not the wing root. Fuselage, yes; wings yes.

You're wrong.

And yes, I have a college degree in Aviation Technology from Northwestern.

You're lying. Northwestern University does not offer a "college degree" in Aviation Technology, nor do they even have a program for aerospace engineering. Further, best I can tell they never have.

Care to rephrase anything at this point?

N
 
DAYflyer
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RE: Not That Impressed With The A388 After The Hype.

Thu Jan 20, 2005 4:42 am

I have never questioned your skills - I just suggested you should speak up at Boeing.

Sorry Udo. Sometimes I take these threads FAR too seriously! And yes I agree that both models will likely succeed.

One Nation Under God
 
Udo
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RE: Not That Impressed With The A388 After The Hyp

Thu Jan 20, 2005 4:53 am

Sorry Udo. Sometimes I take these threads FAR too seriously!

Which we all shouldn't do!


Regards
Udo
Me & You & a Plane Named Blue...
 
killjoy
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RE: Not That Impressed With The A388 After The Hyp

Thu Jan 20, 2005 4:57 am

Someone with a college degree wouldn't suggest that resizing the 747 would be easy.

As for all-economy A380's, I don't quite comprehend why it should be less comfortable than an all-economy 777. You're not even going to see the people on the other deck unless you go looking for them.

Passport control issues are another matter, and they're terrible in the US no matter what you're flying.

Edit: I agree that the shopping malls etc. are complete bullshit.

[Edited 2005-01-19 21:00:15]
 
LongbowPilot
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RE: Not That Impressed With The A388 After The Hype.

Thu Jan 20, 2005 5:06 am

Great thread. I learned a lot here. I think those people though that have never "WORKED" in the airline industry need to listen to those who do. They are the front line soldiers that can tell you how it is. I was a former worker for Delta. I can say that Delta will have no need for such an airframe. They tried 747's for a few months, and found they were more expensive than their worth.

I can also see the nightmare it will be to work this aircraft. I have worked both gate agent and ramp agent roles. The ramp agent won't be difficult as this "should" be a Containerized aircraft. The gate, however will be EXTREMELY busy. 777 gates in ATL are a mad house on a full flight, so multiply that times 2 and you got a mess. They would have to board through several doors. There is no way that 2 door boarding will accomplish a loading in less than 30 minutes. I imagine people will be sitting on this aircraft for a good 1 - 2 hours just waiting for the rest of the passengers to board.

All in all nice aircraft, just not to my taste. The aircraft is the ugliest thing to ever fly the sky, and no matter what poetic spin you put on it, I'm sure people are set on what the think. It is either great or hideous. You all make your choice and get over it.

Are there any helicopter pilots on this forum?

Chris
 
gigneil
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RE: Not That Impressed With The A388 After The Hyp

Thu Jan 20, 2005 5:09 am

777 gates in ATL are a mad house on a full flight

Yeah... but arguably Concourse E, while beautiful, wasn't well designed for large aircraft with the single jetways and small gate areas.

You'll find a lot of helo pilots in the military forum.

N
 
airbazar
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RE: Not That Impressed With The A388 After The Hype.

Thu Jan 20, 2005 5:11 am

What exactly is "value" in your opinion?
Cheese and Eggs w/ bacon or sausage at Waffle House  Big thumbs up

Airbus has chosen prestige over value.
Don't see how this comes as a surprise. This is the European way. Value is not key. Prestige and quality is. If you want value you buy American. If you want quality you buy European.
 
LongbowPilot
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RE: Not That Impressed With The A388 After The Hype.

Thu Jan 20, 2005 5:14 am

Most people don't put a computer in charge of lives. It is rare, and scary to relinquish control like that. I'm referring to the computer having more authority than the pilot like all other airbus's have. Remember the Paris Airshow where the computer wanted to see the tree cutting abilities of the A319 or was a A320.. I dunnno, but that scares the living dookie out of me.


Chris
 
backfire
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RE: Not That Impressed With The A388 After The Hype.

Thu Jan 20, 2005 5:14 am

What a pity that all the people who know about the strategy of running airlines and aerospace companies are too busy going to school.  Insane
 
LongbowPilot
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RE: Not That Impressed With The A388 After The Hype.

Thu Jan 20, 2005 5:15 am

I beg your pardon Backfire, I Imagine you are still in school. I completed my academic portion, but I'm still going through the school of life....

Chris
 
dvk
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RE: Not That Impressed With The A388 After The Hype.

Thu Jan 20, 2005 5:16 am

I do find it very difficult to believe that many, if any, airlines will fly A380's with all the amenities that were presented. It just cannot be economically feasible. As was quickly discovered with the 747 in the early 70's, a great big plane with too much space dedicated to luxury (lounges, bars, ?gyms), rather than seating, will not pay the bills.
I'm not dumb. I just have a command of thoroughly useless information.
 
MaverickM11
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RE: Not That Impressed With The A388 After The Hype.

Thu Jan 20, 2005 5:17 am

"Remember the Paris Airshow where the computer wanted to see the tree cutting abilities of the A319 or was a A320.. I"

The number of accidents caused by human error faaaaaaaaaaaaaaaar outweigh the number of accidents caused "by the computer".
E pur si muove -Galileo
 
LongbowPilot
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RE: Not That Impressed With The A388 After The Hype.

Thu Jan 20, 2005 5:21 am

I still trust the man at the controls with the final call than that computer who has MORE authority to say whatever, sit there and shuddup and watch me crash this thing.

Chris
 
Udo
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RE: Not That Impressed With The A388 After The Hyp

Thu Jan 20, 2005 5:22 am

Don't see how this comes as a surprise. This is the European way. Value is not key.

Are you still talking about eggs, cheese and waffles???  Wink/being sarcastic


Prestige and quality is. If you want value you buy American. If you want quality you buy European.

It depends on what's the definition of value.
And if I can get quality, I go for it and don't care about prestige.


Regards
Udo
Me & You & a Plane Named Blue...
 
daedaeg
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RE: Not That Impressed With The A388 After The Hype.

Thu Jan 20, 2005 5:30 am

Don't see how this comes as a surprise. This is the European way. Value is not key. Prestige and quality is. If you want value you buy American. If you want quality you buy European.

Airbazzer, I've yet to see a post where you haven't taken shots at the US, and yet you continue to live here? interesting.
Quality and value are synonymous my friend. You're not going to get a valuable product, unless it's of good quality.
Everyday you're alive is a good day.
 
singaporegirl
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RE: Not That Impressed With The A388 After The Hype.

Thu Jan 20, 2005 6:26 am

regarding the boarding process of the a380s, my understanding is that at changi's upcoming terminal 3, we're going to have a 2 stories gates for the a380s, to accommodate both the upper and lower deck. other than that things should go smoothly, as changi is a very efficient airport. i'm guessing other airports that will be receiving the a380s might build 2 stories gates as well for boarding/deplaning purposes.

and regarding the aesthetic of the a/c, i'm guessing it's a little arduous to design a gargantuan of an aircraft and keep it 'pretty'. i remember seeing pics of the proposed double decker from both boeing and mc donnell douglas from the 70s and actually they looked kind of similar to the a380s... they're all fat! lol.

speaking of aesthetic, changi is not the most beautiful airport out there (compared to the neighbouring klia or hkg), but it is one of the most efficient airports (even with 10 744s coming at the same time, you'd be able to exit the airport within 15/20 mins). hopefully the a380s will get the job done (transporting a very large number of people safely) as well.
Ladies & Gentlemen, we will now demonstrate the use of the safety equipment on this aircraft...
 
exFATboy
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RE: Not That Impressed With The A388 After The Hype.

Thu Jan 20, 2005 7:06 am

At the risk of arguing semantics, "quality" and "value" are not synonymous. "Quality" is an absolute, whereas "value" is a relative measurement of quality vs. price. Quality can usually be measured by objective means, whereas value can be frequently subjective. (Quick example - does the Live TV on JetBlue really add value? If you like TV, yes. If you don't, no.)

For example, let's say you had two hypothetical cars, both identical in apperance and ride to driver, passenger, and anyone else who looks at them. The first model is better engineered, though, and will go on average 300,000 miles without a major breakdown. The second model will generally require a major repair every 100,000 miles. From an engineering standpoint, the first car is obviously of higher quality. But now let's say the first car costs $100,000 but the second costs $50,000 to own for the same period of time or miles driven (including major repairs for the second one.) Which is a better value? The vast majority of people would say the second car (remember, the ride and apprerance are absolutely identical), but a few individuals who put a high personal "value" on engineering standards or a very high value on their own time (and thus don't want to cope with repair downtime) would say the first one.

Now, as for the A380, I have to admit I agree with those who say "why the hype?" It's just a bigger 747, sorry. Yes, it's an impressive achievement, but it's just an evolutionary change. The original 747 was so much larger than the next largest passenger plane that it was a revolutionary change.

And I don't buy for a moment that coach on an A380 will be any more comfortable than on any other plane. No gyms, no lounges, none of that, at least not back in steerage. There may be some new luxuries in First or Business, but not in economy.

All that said, I'm looking forward to flying on one someday. Hey, what can I say? It's big!  Smile
 
cloudboy
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RE: Not That Impressed With The A388 After The Hype.

Thu Jan 20, 2005 7:13 am

Does anyone have a copy of that picture? I have been looking for a silouette composite illustration.

Not that I think it looks as beautifulas the 747, but it is not as ugly as I thought it would be. And now, I don't think it is going to look that much bigger.

Maybe it is time to rethink how they board aircraft?

-Ray
"Six becoming three doesn't create more Americans that want to fly." -Adam Pilarski
 
leelaw
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RE: Not That Impressed With The A388 After The Hyp

Thu Jan 20, 2005 7:29 am

IMO, the A380's design is transitional rather than evolutional, but hardly unimpressive.
Lex Ancilla Justitiae
 
777236ER
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RE: Not That Impressed With The A388 After The Hype.

Thu Jan 20, 2005 7:52 am

The A380 will cruise M0.05 faster than a 747 and have a max speed comparable at M0.89.

The 747-400 standard cruise speed is Mach 0.85, how do you work out that the A380 will cruise at Mach 0.90?
Your bone's got a little machine
 
gigneil
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RE: Not That Impressed With The A388 After The Hyp

Thu Jan 20, 2005 7:57 am

I'm sorry, I mistyped. I meant .005.

M0.855 for the 744 vs. 0.86 for the 380 was the comparison I was looking for.

Thanks for catching my mistake.

N
 
ATLFlyer323
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RE: Not That Impressed With The A388 After The Hyp

Thu Jan 20, 2005 8:05 am

Ya well Udo, I think he deserved to say what he said

If it's so easy - why isn't Boeing doing it? Probably they just need an engineer like YOU?

-That has a pretty sarcastic tone to it if you ask me?? I Dont think he should have appoligized.

And as far as the planes are concerned both are wonderful (not the best looking) but wonderful planes in two different markets. I dont think its fair to put them togther nd jugde.

Brandon  Smile
Everyday, the fluffy temptation of wheat!
 
Udo
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RE: Not That Impressed With The A388 After The Hyp

Thu Jan 20, 2005 8:10 am

-That has a pretty sarcastic tone to it if you ask me?? I Dont think he should have appoligized.

I have never asked for an apology.


Regards
Udo
Me & You & a Plane Named Blue...
 
B727-200
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RE: Not That Impressed With The A388 After The Hype.

Thu Jan 20, 2005 8:11 am


If the launch of any new aircraft regardless of size or manufacturer does not impress you, then what the hell are you doing on Airliners.net????

For 5 years I have been taking neutral ground in the A v' B thing, because as an airline/aircraft/aviation enthusiast I marvel at all aspects of our industry. But I am starting to get a bit tired of the complete and utter negativity and slanging matches that keep popping up, and makes me question why some people join this forum in the first place.

Let's face it, the day that airline manufacturers start making aircraft to be visually impressive against pure economics and operational requirements, the industry will be heading for certain disaster.

I know that everybody is free to express their opinion, but how people who call themselves aviation enthusiasts can bag a new 280 metric tonne aircraft that has not even left the ground yet, regardless of their political, religious or ideological persuasion, has me completely beat.

B727-200.
 
ATLFlyer323
Posts: 489
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RE: Not That Impressed With The A388 After The Hyp

Thu Jan 20, 2005 8:15 am

I have never asked for an apology.

-and I never said you asked for one, I just said I dont think he should have nothing in there mentioned anything about you asking.  Innocent

-brandon
Everyday, the fluffy temptation of wheat!
 
chiawei
Posts: 927
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RE: Not That Impressed With The A388 After The Hype.

Thu Jan 20, 2005 8:26 am

huh???

If Airbus cruising speed is 0.05 mach faster than 744, there is something wrong with its max cruise speed.

744 cruise is between 0.86 and 0.85 mach, which means A380 crusing speed is 0.91 to 0.90. How can its max cruise speed be slower than crusing speed.