phil747
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BA And Possible 7E7 Order

Fri Jan 21, 2005 2:26 am

Just been told by someone at BA that all long haul 767s are being refurbished with new club world and world traveller + to keep them going until the 7E7 comes on line.... watch for an order.
 
NYC777
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RE: BA And Possible 7E7 Order

Fri Jan 21, 2005 2:51 am

Did they say when the order will come and for how many and which versions of the 7E7? I would think it'll be for the -8 and -9.
That which does not kill me makes me stronger.
 
Shamrock_747
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RE: BA And Possible 7E7 Order

Fri Jan 21, 2005 3:27 am

The fact that BA is investing in the 767-336ER fleet by fitting them with the dusk cabins and moving four from short haul to long haul indicates that they do have a future at the airline for the time being. Eventual replacement is likely to be be the 7E7 or A350 but I think an order is a good few years away.
 
FCKC
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RE: BA And Possible 7E7 Order

Fri Jan 21, 2005 5:00 am

Shamrock_747

If you didn't have written your comments before i saw this thread , i would have posted strictly the same !!!!!!!!!!!!!!
 
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Crosswind
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RE: BA And Possible 7E7 Order

Fri Jan 21, 2005 5:02 am

But having said that First Choice Airways are investing millions upgrading their 767 fleet, and they will also be one of the first 7E7 customers to take delivery of the new type to begin to replace the 767 in 2008/9.

My understanding is that the "Dusk" conversion for BA's 767s will be new seats, rather than a full upgrade to the 777-style enhanced interior.

I think it's still entirely possible that BA could order the 7E7 now for delivery from 2010 onwards, that's still 5-7 years use out of the dusked 767s, and will allow BA to remain competitive in the meantime...

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Ready4Pushback
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RE: BA And Possible 7E7 Order

Fri Jan 21, 2005 5:48 am

Personally, I completely agree with Shamrock_747, and I reckon it will be years before BA even orders them for delivery whenever.
 
trevd
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RE: BA And Possible 7E7 Order

Fri Jan 21, 2005 5:52 am

Depends how soon they want them. If they are going to want them before 2010 they will have to firm up an order soon. Delivery positions in 2008 and 2009 are just about sold. If they can afford to wait until '10 or '11 then there should be no hurry.
 
DAYflyer
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RE: BA And Possible 7E7 Order

Fri Jan 21, 2005 6:26 am

I hope this rumor is true, another major 7e7 customer with the prestige of BA would be a great thing to see.
One Nation Under God
 
flyabunch
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RE: BA And Possible 7E7 Order

Fri Jan 21, 2005 6:36 am

I would think that one of the things that airline planners keep an eye on is the timing of their fleet needs. In other words, when will we need a particular type of plane and when do we need to order it to make sure we get it when we need it.

I am sure that this is not an exact science, as situations. loads, and conditions change. My feeling is that BA knows when they want to start receiving planes to replace their 767's and by keeping in touch with Boeing and Airbus, they will have a pretty good idea when they need to step forward to secure the slots they need.

By the way, have you noticed that the big leasing companies have not stepped forward yet? I know they are never first, but when is it that they will start to secure slots?

Mike
 
NYC777
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RE: BA And Possible 7E7 Order

Fri Jan 21, 2005 6:41 am

By the way, have you noticed that the big leasing companies have not stepped forward yet? I know they are never first, but when is it that they will start to secure slots?

ILFC said on Tuesday tha tthey are in talks with Boeing to buy 20 7E7s and that a deal might conclude shortly.
That which does not kill me makes me stronger.
 
ConcordeBoy
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RE: BA And Possible 7E7 Order

Fri Jan 21, 2005 7:47 am

By the way, have you noticed that the big leasing companies have not stepped forward yet? I know they are never first, but when is it that they will start to secure slots?

Keep in mind that they've also backed off of buying massive 90s style orders with no customers lined up, particularly after such episodes as the 764.... nowadays, the usually have a fair number of interested parties in the wings before they invest in a new aircraft.
Faire du ciel le plus bel endroit de la terre c'est impossible sans Concorde!
 
Julius2005
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RE: BA And Possible 7E7 Order

Fri Jan 21, 2005 12:13 pm

I THINK ITS A GOOD INVESTMENT FOR INSTANCE
JRHAV
 
Julius2005
Posts: 17
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RE: BA And Possible 7E7 Order

Fri Jan 21, 2005 12:18 pm

ALSO CONSIDER ITS A GOOD FACT THAT BA IS CHANGING B763 SH INTO LH IT IS A GOOD INDICATOR FOR THE AIRLENE
JRHAV
 
MD11LuxuryLinr
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RE: BA And Possible 7E7 Order

Fri Jan 21, 2005 12:29 pm

Welcome to the site Julius2005.. Please try not to type in all CAPS..
Caution wake turbulence, you are following a heavy jet.
 
SLUAviator
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RE: BA And Possible 7E7 Order

Fri Jan 21, 2005 4:44 pm

How old are BA's 767s? If they have a bunch of planes built in the beginning of the production run, why not start making plans to replace them with 7E7s? Those things are pushing 20 years old. If they have planes that were built in the early to mid-90s, they probably have up to an additional 10 years of service until they need to get replaced. Why not put the new interior in those planes? They will have them long enough to get their money's worth. If BA replaces the 767s with 7E7s, I bet the delivery schedule will match the 767 retirement schedule pretty closely.
What do I know? I just fly 'em.......
 
RB211LTN
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RE: BA And Possible 7E7 Order

Fri Jan 21, 2005 6:03 pm

I think most of you have got it right. The 767's are being refitted as an alternative to replacement, not as a prelude to it. Their aircraft still have a lot of life left in them and BA simply don't have the money to order a replacement right now. They have also stated that they can't afford the A380, too. Personally, I think they will buy the A380. They will have to, the competition will all have them and passengers want to fly on the latest technology.
The customer is always right.....unless he is a passenger!
 
Ready4Pushback
Posts: 355
Joined: Fri Dec 31, 2004 8:27 pm

RE: BA And Possible 7E7 Order

Fri Jan 21, 2005 6:37 pm

...but I read in another post that they are hinting that it's a possibility (A380)...
http://www.airliners.net/discussions/general_aviation/read.main/1917266/

It would be great to see BA flying both of these new planes. And the chances are....?
 
dreamcraft
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RE: BA And Possible 7E7 Order

Fri Jan 21, 2005 7:11 pm

This would be great news for Boeing, particularly this week with the 'reveal' launch of the A380. (which incidentally I think is a huge mistake for Airbus-although I really do hope I am wrong) Innovation is always a good thing even if it is not a commercial success.
 
rwylie77
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RE: BA And Possible 7E7 Order

Fri Jan 21, 2005 7:26 pm

I think BA are more likely to keep the 767's flying for as long as possible and order 10 or s A380's - slots at Heathrow are only going to become inceasingly scarce and valuable and the only way to expand their capacity at Heathrow is through bigger planes.

Why would they replace 767's that still have 10 years life in them?
 
Planesmart
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RE: BA And Possible 7E7 Order

Fri Jan 21, 2005 7:31 pm

All major airlines, irrespective of their financial position, can currently secure 7e7 options in 2010/11 for small change.

Most will do so in 2005, including BA.

The options can be sold, $'s transferred to other B models, deferred, and if push came to shove (very unlikely), cancelled and $'s written off.

Performance in theory is not an issue, as it's covered in the contract. However, at this early stage, B are probably not keen to accept small +/- performance margins supported by penalty clauses.

And of course, BA and B will have to agree on price, which for 2010 will be quite different to 2008.
 
edina
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RE: BA And Possible 7E7 Order

Fri Jan 21, 2005 7:52 pm

BA's oldest 767s are barely 15 years old, and the newer aircraft BZHA-C are much more recent. BA had flirted with the idea of disposing the fleet to the RAF, however the project went to Airbus for new build aircraft, but are now pretty much resigned to the fact that they are operating an "orphan" fleet of RR powered aircraft for which there are few buyers. Unless they can secure a 757 style DHL type deal for the entire fleet the 767s are staying firmly put for some time yet. The only talk of new orders within the company is of a possible A380 order, but even that is some time off.
Worked on - Caravelle Mercure A300 A320 F27 SD3-60 BAe146 747-100/200/400 DC10-30 767 777 737-400 757 A319 A321
 
richardw
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RE: BA And Possible 7E7 Order

Fri Jan 21, 2005 8:01 pm

How many WT+ seats across? 2-2-2? and club world 1-2-2 like QF?
 
AngelAirways
Posts: 480
Joined: Wed Nov 10, 1999 3:55 am

RE: BA And Possible 7E7 Order

Fri Jan 21, 2005 11:43 pm

I can see BA having both A380s and 7E7/A350s but not before 2012!

Also, there are very few long haul 767s in BA's fleet as many of them have been transferred and reconfigured to serve trunk European routes (Club Europe/Euro Traveller). (FRA, IST, PRG, NCE, ARN and many many more).

So if the upgrade is only to the long haul 763s.. its rather minor.

Right now the long haul routes that I know BA is serving with 767s are Dar-es-Salaam, Grand Cayman, Gambia... (BWI was upgraded to 777 I believe).

Does anyone know of other long haul BA 767 routes?
 
roblondon70
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RE: BA And Possible 7E7 Order

Fri Jan 21, 2005 11:57 pm

LHR - ACC, EBB, LAD, LUN, NAS, NBO, PLS, TLV and BOG and CCS for now.

MAN - JFK.

No Gambia.
 
edina
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RE: BA And Possible 7E7 Order

Sat Jan 22, 2005 12:08 am

4 more 767s are being converted to long haul configuration, leaving 7 aircraft in short haul layout.......numbers of short haul aircraft are definitely dropping rather than increasing  Confused
Worked on - Caravelle Mercure A300 A320 F27 SD3-60 BAe146 747-100/200/400 DC10-30 767 777 737-400 757 A319 A321
 
whitehatter
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RE: BA And Possible 7E7 Order

Sat Jan 22, 2005 12:12 am

Don't expect any BA order in the near term. Focus is still on repaying debt, in order to improve the company value and share price.

A company with low debt gearing can borrow or lease at preferential market rates, and this contributes to the balance sheet for decades. British Airways won't be buying anything until they reach predetermined debt levels, and Eddington has ruled out any purchases for some years yet.

The existing fleet is relatively young compared to many international carriers, and the 767s from QF will come back sooner or later. Dusking them could mean they have another ten years with BA, especially the newer ones or those exclusively on longhaul with lower cycles.

Improving the BA credit rating is their priority and rightly so.
Lead me not into temptation, I can find my own way there...
 
DAYflyer
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RE: BA And Possible 7E7 Order

Sat Jan 22, 2005 12:39 am

If they can't afford it don't buy it. Dl is carrying $20 BILLION in debt and look where it's gotten them. I would rather BA not order until they are healthy, it only makes sense for them.
One Nation Under God
 
European
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RE: BA And Possible 7E7 Order

Sat Jan 22, 2005 1:08 am

An Airline would Like to keep costermers comming, And to keep there fleet modern and looked after well,

If you think about it, It is a good 4-5 years till they would get there 1st plane, So making there planes better is not such a Bad idea. They do not want to get a bad rep and lose costomers do they?

I hope they order the 7E7, Looks cool.  Smile

European
Jimmi
Come on Ryanair! Come on BOH! BASE BASE BASE! Flying high in the skies...........
 
sunrisevalley
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RE: BA And Possible 7E7 Order

Sat Jan 22, 2005 1:13 am

Do BA own or lease their 767's or is there some of both.
 
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Richard28
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RE: BA And Possible 7E7 Order

Sat Jan 22, 2005 3:20 am

I'd think any 7e7 order will be years away too.

The cost of installing new cabins across the 767 fleet will run into millions, and they will need to get many years service out of them to warrant this investment.

I would have thought the only 7e7 order would be to compliment the 767 fleet, and that I think is unlikely, as the slots dont exist to utilise additional planes.

Rich.
 
Planesmart
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Joined: Sun Dec 05, 2004 3:18 am

RE: BA And Possible 7E7 Order

Sat Jan 22, 2005 3:49 am

No reason why BA cn't order 7e7 (or A38) in 2005 for delivery in 2010/11, and still keep true to Eddington's targets.

The cost of options are petty cash, and until A & B want more dollars to firm-up orders 24-30 months out, the cost is very small, and only a contingent liability in the Balance Sheet.

BA can make conversion from options to orders contingent on a whole raft of events, including aircraft performance and their own financial performance.

Given planned production rates, BA still has some thinking time available on the 7e7, until more large orders materialise. A decision is more pressing on the A38, as production volumes are lower.
 
skateruk
Posts: 4
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RE: BA And Possible 7E7 Order

Sat Jan 22, 2005 5:23 pm

BA's boss, Rod Eddington, has come out and stated on Thursday that:

"British Airways currently operates one of the world's youngest long-range fleets. We have around 120 aircraft - Boeing 747s, 777s and 767s - which are serving our longhaul network well, both in terms of efficiency and in matching capacity with current demand...

There is no immediate need to replace these aircraft...

Buying new aircraft is the single biggest capital outlay for any airline, and is not something we do simply to 'Keep up with the Joneses'

We won't be flourishing the corporate cheque book, however, until it makes sound business sense to do so, and all the alternatives have been thoroughly examined."

I think that is quite clear that BA won't be ordering any new aircraft in the immediate future!!

The 767s are being reconfigured with the new Club world beds - the last of the long haul aircraft to receive them. They will only have Club, World Traveller Plus, and World Traveller seats - First Class is being removed from them, although i don't know what the exact configuration will be yet.
 
DeltaWings
Posts: 1234
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RE: BA And Possible 7E7 Order

Sat Jan 22, 2005 8:00 pm

Makes sense if BA replaced the domestic B763s with B7E3s, and the long-haul B763s with the B7E8.


~DeltaWings
Homer: Marge, it takes two to lie. One to lie and one to listen.
 
sunrisevalley
Posts: 4953
Joined: Tue Jul 06, 2004 3:26 am

RE: BA And Possible 7E7 Order

Sat Jan 22, 2005 9:41 pm

Interesting that they would be reconfiguring their 767's . I believe it was NZ that said they would find the increased weight to do their -300ER's over an unacceptable penalty.
 
jacobin777
Posts: 12262
Joined: Sat Sep 11, 2004 6:29 pm

RE: BA And Possible 7E7 Order

Sun Jan 23, 2005 6:26 am

here is a cool photo of the 7E7 in BA colours...looks cool..but I doubt we'll be seeing it for a while (if ever)

http://allimom.album.atomic-systems.com/showPic.php/23004/7e7.jpg?CUTHERE=d013bd955f8c21da492d8beae6793535
"Up the Irons!"

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