LongbowPilot
Topic Author
Posts: 526
Joined: Mon Jan 17, 2005 4:16 am

Airport Size

Fri Jan 21, 2005 4:21 am

Can someone please tell me how the A380 will revolutionize the world. After reading the Boeing Journal. I can see where there is a slight chance the A380's might not muster to expectations.

Since I used to work in the airlines I can see how the A380 will benefit the hub - hub system. I agree however that passengers would like more point - point. Granted that you can't Point to Point very well over the oceans, but within countries and continents it is different. If airbus breaks even great, but i truel believe that Airbus will have troubles ahead. Airlines are shifting thier trends and evaluating point to point. Especially American Carriers, Southwest and Jetblue point to points are very well liked. So I know the domestice market in the US will probably never see an A380 not only due to facility immaturity but just the fact that it doesn't fit the trend of what the US public at large usually wants.

 
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BALandorLivery
Posts: 313
Joined: Mon Jan 17, 2005 7:54 pm

RE: Airport Size

Fri Jan 21, 2005 4:28 am

I agree, and this shift to point-to-point is why I think the 787 will be very successful.

Not to mention that it will be a more economical replacement for charter carriers who operate the 757/767.

PLEASE NO A vs B WAR, i'm sick n tired of those.
 
LongbowPilot
Topic Author
Posts: 526
Joined: Mon Jan 17, 2005 4:16 am

RE: Airport Size

Fri Jan 21, 2005 4:30 am

This isn't supposed to become an A vs B.. This is supposed to be Fact vs Fact about the market ideas these aircraft will be doing. I believe i have established plenty of room on either side for people to fight for thier respective theories without making this an B vs A war Big grin
 
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BALandorLivery
Posts: 313
Joined: Mon Jan 17, 2005 7:54 pm

RE: Airport Size

Fri Jan 21, 2005 4:39 am

True, but some people are bound to kick off, just trying to make sure it doesn't happen.

Aslo do you think that Emirates need all those A380's or do you think that the Sheiks are doing it partly for pride i.e having bigger planes to show their wealth.
 
Ready4Pushback
Posts: 355
Joined: Fri Dec 31, 2004 8:27 pm

RE: Airport Size

Fri Jan 21, 2005 4:40 am

LongbowPilot, I agree with what you have to say, but the growing markets in the world are in Asia now, and I think that is where it will be a success (I mean to say most successful!).

Having said that, I realise that us westerners may like the point-to-point system, but I don't know about the rest of the world. I guess the growing Asian market may in fact like the point-to-point system ultimately as well, and yes I think Airbus will then be in trouble with regards to the A380 program.

I live close to BHX and I remember when AA used to fly to ORD from there every day. The company I worked for loved it - every trip to the US started with the BHX-ORD service, and then on. Businesses love these point-to-point services.
 
LongbowPilot
Topic Author
Posts: 526
Joined: Mon Jan 17, 2005 4:16 am

RE: Airport Size

Fri Jan 21, 2005 4:48 am

If the markey is truely only going to be Asia, than Boeing really isn't going to be threatend by the airbus. Because the aircrat they are producing is going to satisfy the needs of the carriers in the west that are looking for the more efficient way to a destination to build point to point routes.

SO in the end Airbus will have thier market and Boeing will have thiers. Now i truely think I see that they are more or less cornering thier markets and not trying to hostily take over either.. Genius.

 
ozglobal
Posts: 2537
Joined: Tue Nov 09, 2004 7:33 am

RE: Airport Size

Fri Jan 21, 2005 4:56 am

It is reductionist to judge the economics of the A380 on the basis of the US market. The US market is overwhelmingly short haul domestic. Many other markets are heavily international long haul (Asia, Australia, Middle East, South Africa and others; Europe being a mix). On the basis of your US argument, the 747 should never have been built and was flawed in its economic conception. It's tremendous and ongoing success shows the US market not to be highly relevant in the question.
To take one example, I travel fairly frequently between Europe and Australia. QF operates up to seven daily 744's between LHR and Australia (BA several as well, not to mention many other carriers). The flight takes around 24 hours. Plus, slots are capped at LHR and I don't believe QF has any more options since they introduced their services to LHR via HKG. Can you imagine an armarda of A319's leaving every half hour taking people to every city in Australia? Now can you see the economics of a larger scale aircraft delivering higher yeild on a very long haul route using the same slot as the 744?
Take another example: SYD or MEL - LAX. People are often showing the number 744's sitting at LAX, waiting to return. Smacks of a route in need of capacity, don't you think?


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Look at the A380, think outside the US boarders (i.e. where the growth is) and it makes sense.

Ozglobal
When all's said and done, there'll be more said than done.
 
Ready4Pushback
Posts: 355
Joined: Fri Dec 31, 2004 8:27 pm

RE: Airport Size

Fri Jan 21, 2005 4:56 am

Are there any American airlines wanting to do that though? I think that would be very different to your original market example that you were talking about - which was JetBlue and Southwest.

I think this would be great - I would love to see both B and A have amazingly successful airliners, and I personally think the best thing for B would be for some of the American airlines to really start to pick up and be in a position to spend.
 
codeshare
Posts: 1689
Joined: Tue Sep 10, 2002 2:23 am

RE: Airport Size

Fri Jan 21, 2005 5:01 am

Another thing: look how many US carriers use the 747. NW and UA now, from the majors. Also others, I think too (maybe?).

So basically the A380 will be generally used by foreign airlines flying into the US.
How much A is there is Airliners Net ? 0 or nothing ?
 
LongbowPilot
Topic Author
Posts: 526
Joined: Mon Jan 17, 2005 4:16 am

RE: Airport Size

Fri Jan 21, 2005 5:03 am

right and the boeing 7e7 will be more going to the us.

 
bennett123
Posts: 7530
Joined: Sun Aug 15, 2004 12:49 am

RE: Airport Size

Fri Jan 21, 2005 5:23 am


The key issue here is the number of passengers per slot.

If you can match growth of passengers with growth in slots, then the average plane size remains the same. If not, you need bigger planes.

Perhaps US airports have plenty of spare slots.
 
ZKSUJ
Posts: 6814
Joined: Tue May 18, 2004 5:15 pm

RE: Airport Size

Fri Jan 21, 2005 5:29 am

Yes I agree. But for routes like SIN-LHR or LHR-LAx or something like that. The A380 will be very handy. I do not think Airbus are aiming for the 380 to be used on point to point, but rather to increase capacity on hub to hubs where airlines may not get extra slots into a certain airport. An example is LHR where slots are hard to come by. The A380 will use only 1 slot but carry nearly one and a half the PAX on a 767 or 777 etc...
 
Ready4Pushback
Posts: 355
Joined: Fri Dec 31, 2004 8:27 pm

RE: Airport Size

Fri Jan 21, 2005 5:31 am

Ozglobal: that's a beautiful pic, it's amazing that it's LAX and not SYD or MEL!

LongbowPilot, are there any US airlines that are in a position to spend alot of money on 7e7s? I was there last week, and from the conversations I had, no one was saying anything good about the financial situation of the airlines. I noticed in another post that Continental were having to consider cancelling their order? It's early days for it, and I think it will do well outside of the US anyway - both will - I think the Asian market will go for both the A380 and the 7e7 personally. I would like to see it do well in the leasure market in Europe - one of the charter airlines has already ordered some, haven't they?

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